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ScottA

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Even now I say to you what I’ve already said to you. Your teaching doesn’t align with the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism and it has you following a deity which the Messiah himself doesn’t.

You apparently think that’s fine and dandy. I don’t.
No, that is not the circumstance at all.

You not getting the bigger picture and not believing all that is written or even what you yourself say of Him, calling Him Messiah meaning "God (with us"), but not believing it--does not mean Jesus was not "Messiah" ("God (with us)."

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
 

Matthias

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“Jesus’ beliefs, therefore, remained those of a first-century Jew, committed to the coming kingdom of Israel’s god. He did not waver in his loyalty to Jewish doctrine. But his beliefs were those of a first-century Jew who believed that the kingdom was coming in and through his own work. His loyalty to Israel’s cherished beliefs therefore took the form of critique and renovation from within; of challenge to traditions and institutions whose true purpose, he believed (like prophets long before, and radicals in his own day), had been grievously corrupted and distorted; and of new proposals which, though without precedent, were never mere innovation. They always claimed the high ground: fulfillment, completion, consummation.

We can summarize Jesus’ beliefs in terms of the three most fundamental Jewish beliefs: monotheis, election, and eschatology.

Jesus believed that there was one God who made the world, and who had called Israel to be his people; that this one God had promised to be with his people, and guide them to their destiny, their new exodus; that his presence, guidance and ultimately salvation were symbolized, brought into reality, in and through Temple, Torah, Wisdom, Word and Spirit. He was a first-century Jewish monotheist.”

(N.T. Wright, Jesus And The Victory Of God, p. 652)
 

Matthias

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No, that is not the circumstance at all.

You not getting the bigger picture and not believing all that is written or even what you yourself say of Him, calling Him Messiah meaning "God (with us"), but not believing it--does not mean Jesus was not "Messiah" ("God (with us)."

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I’m speaking to someone who has a deity which isn’t the Messiah’s God. What you’re speaking out of your mouth is your teaching, not the Messiah’s.
 

Matthias

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“The difference between the beliefs of Jesus and those of thousands of other Jews of his day amounted simply to this: he believed, also, that all these things were coming true in and through himself.”

(Ibid.)
 

ScottA

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Jesus, himself a Jewish monotheist, is aware of it.
That is your error.

Jesus honored the law and ordinances of Jewish monotheism, because He became a man in Israel and came to fulfill those laws and ordinances--not because He was under them, but did what was required for salvation. That is why He came.

Did He believe in One God? Of course He did--and of course He would. Why would God not believe in Himself?

What you are missing is that the very definition of "Messiah" means He was God. Jesus is also the [only] "begotten" which means "causatively" defined as: "doing the work of the subject" like "cause and effect", where the "subject" or "cause" is God and His work is Christ. Biblically meaning that Christ is [literally] the right hand of the subject and not just an agent of the subject (whom is God). Thus, it is written in this way, "I and the Father are One" (literally); "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" [literally] seeing Him who is otherwise unseen; and "I work and My Father works", meaning at the same task as One (and the same).

But if you want to go on thinking that God is like "My Daddy Bob the Plumber" is two people--and not hear what the Spirit says...you do that.
 
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Matthias

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That is your error.

Jesus honored the law and ordinances of Jewish monotheism, because He became a man in Israel and came to fulfill those laws and ordinances--not because He was under them, but did what was required for salvation. That is why He came.

Did He believe in One God? Of course He did--and of course He would. Why would God not believe in Himself?

What you are missing is that the very definition of "Messiah" means He was God. Jesus is also the [only] "begotten" which means "causatively" defined as: "doing the work of the subject" like "cause and effect", where the "subject" or "cause" is God and His work is Christ. Biblically meaning that Christ is [literally] the right hand of the subject and not just an agent of the subject (whom is God). Thus, it is written in this way, "I and the Father are One" (literally); "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" [literally] seeing Him who is otherwise unseen; and "I work and My Father works", meaning at the same task as One (and the same).

But if you want to go on thinking that God is like "My Daddy Bob the Plumber" is two people--and not hear what the Spirit says...you do that.

I’ve listened to your teaching, considered it carefully, found it wanting, rejected it and told you why.

Just listen to Jesus. His God isn’t the deity you’re enamored with and there is no God besides his God. If you don’t find that persuasive then don’t believe it.
 

ScottA

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I’m speaking to someone who has a deity which isn’t the Messiah’s God. What you’re speaking out of your mouth is your teaching, not the Messiah’s.
I’ve listened to your teaching, considered it carefully, found it wanting, rejected it and told you why.

Just listen to Jesus. His God isn’t the deity you’re enamored with and there is no God besides his God. If you don’t find that persuasive then don’t believe it.
No, it is in the scriptures and I have laid it out for you, but you can't see past "on earth as it is in heaven", considering that they are different before, during, and after the Amen. They are not.

But this too you do not understand, and therefore have resorted to pointing the finger.

I leave you to it.
 

Matthias

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No, it is in the scriptures and I have laid it out for you, but you can't see past "on earth as it is in heaven", considering that they are different before, during, and after the Amen. They are not.

But this too you do not understand, and therefore have resorted to pointing the finger.

I leave you to it.

I remain committed to the simplicity that is found in Jesus Christ.
 

ScottA

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I remain committed to the simplicity that is found in Jesus Christ.
Yes, that is the problem.

To the contrary, it has been appointed to us to "press on." Philippians 3:12

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits." Hebrews 6:1-3

For this reason I told you before: "I leave you to it."
 

Matthias

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Yes, that is the problem.

To the contrary, it has been appointed to us to "press on." Philippians 3:12

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits." Hebrews 6:1-3

For this reason I told you before: "I leave you to it."

I’ve pressed on in Jewish monotheism.

You’ve pressed on even beyond trinitarianism.

I’ve long since left you to it.
 

Behold

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Do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”?

I would have to read, in depth, exactly what they mean, before i can answer perfectly.

Often, this type of sound-byte you quoted, is not the person teaching that Jesus is the Father, and Christ isn't the Son.

There is a cult that is the "Jesus is all that is in heaven, there is no Father".....that isn't correct.

Jesus is the Word and He's God in the Flesh.
This has been defined as the 2nd person of the Trinity.... but, that tends to isolate Him from being the Word made Flesh, who is GOD in John 1.
 

Matthias

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The Lord Yeshua, is the Pre-incarnate Word who became God manifested in a human body and is now seated at the right hand of the Father.

I’ve heard tell of it. I still think Jewish monotheism provides the correct understanding of the incarnation of the one God’s word.
 

Behold

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I’ve heard tell of it. I still think Jewish monotheism provides the correct understanding of the incarnation of the one God’s word.

Unsaved Jews... (monotheistic) read their Torah, but do not understand it.
They can't, as the word of God has to be "rightly divided' based on "spiritual discernment" and unsaved (monotheistic) hyper religious Hebrews, have no Holy Spirit in them, = Their Torah is LOCKED, unto them.
It unlocks once they become "messianic".
 

Matthias

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I would have to read, in depth, exactly what they mean, before i can answer perfectly.

Often, this type of sound-byte you quoted, is not the person teaching that Jesus is the Father, and Christ isn't the Son.

I’m pretty sure @Taken would welcome the opportunity to provide clarification upon request.

There is a cult that is the "Jesus is all that is in heaven, there is no Father".....that isn't correct.

Jesus is the Word and He's God in the Flesh.
This has been defined as the 2nd person of the Trinity.... but, that tends to isolate Him from being the Word made Flesh, who is GOD in John 1.
 

Matthias

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Unsaved Jews... (monotheistic) read their Torah, but do not understand it.
They can't, as the word of God has to be "rightly divided' based on "spiritual discernment" and unsaved (monotheistic) hyper religious Hebrews, have no Holy Spirit in them, = Their Torah is LOCKED, unto them.

It isn’t unsaved Jews that I had in mind.
 
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