Genesis : Trinity

[Matthias]

John 1. The WORD = God.

The "Word" is Jesus manifested in the Flesh

Do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”?

 

[Behold]

Do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”?

Jesus is not the Father.
Christ is the "Word" John 1... who is made Flesh and dwelt among us" = Jesus The God-man

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is not the Father.

So you don’t agree with @Taken.

I say Jesus is only one person. How many persons do you say Jesus is?

Christ is the "Word" John 1... who is made Flesh and dwelt among us" = Jesus The God-man

 

[Matthias]

To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

forewarned is forearmed

I’m going to use the “s” word in what follows @Behold -

I’m going to be using the “t” word in what follows @ScottA -

The trinitarian scholar Dr. Chris VanBuskirk (Lancaster Bible College) gives us a lesson on the “Classic Trinity” (to use your terminology.)

“Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity.”

Blue Letter Bible Institute

“Classic Trinity” doesn’t teach us that “Jesus himself is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.” A branch of unitarianism does.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks.

***

Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit

What say you to that @Behold? @ScottA? @farouk? @marks? @RLT63?

I recognize what it is. Do you?

Name that theology.

Sounds like Pentecostal Oneness

 

[Taken]

Sounds like Pentecostal Oneness

WHO, calls WHOM, WHAT....WHEN and WHY?

God has alway BEEN “ONE” God. God never changes.
WHAT He is “CALLED”, does change.

God HAS “parts” (so to speak).
Particular “parts” of God ARE the essence of God...that TOGETHER...
.......He IS ALL Powerful.
.......He IS ALL Abel to Create and Make Whatever His Will desires.

Father...Yahweh...Spirit..I Am....IS the WILL, ideas, desires, thoughts.
Son......Jesus....Spirit...WORD, communication, expression.
HS........Christ...Spirit...POWER, might, Glory.

ALL ~ IS the WHOLENESS of God. Names, Titles, Intent, Purposes...
APPEAR as “individual”....yet are always ONE.

No human man CAN SEE God and continue Living. His Brightness would incinerate a human man.

It’s a LEARNING curve, bit by bit.
Same as a human mans essence, is BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT....and little baby humans learn bit by bit...
Daddy, Mommy.....then learn their names, (multiple names), learn they are their parents, learn they have titles, descriptions, etc. Yet still the same one persons.

Same with God. Introduced, bit by bit, names, (multiple names), has multiple titles, has multiple descriptions, etc. Yet still the one same God.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks.

***

Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit

What say you to that @Behold? @ScottA? @farouk? @marks? @RLT63?

I recognize what it is. Do you?

Name that theology.

God is one God.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The “classic” trinitarians are correct in identifying the religion of Jesus as Judaism. It’s simply a historical fact.

They are not correct, because Jesus didn't practice the religion of the Pharisees. He practiced Torahism. And yes, there are as different from each other as night is from day. The Bible shows Jesus doing what the Law required, not what the Pharisees required. It's not historically, or even biblically correct to say that Jesus' religion was Judaism when the Bible shows Him taking every available opportunity to oppose it in public.

 

[Matthias]

God is one God.

Surely. But do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit”?

 

[Matthias]

They are not correct, because Jesus didn't practice the religion of the Pharisees. He practiced Torahism. And yes, there are as different from each other as night is from day. The Bible shows Jesus doing what the Law required, not what the Pharisees required. It's not historically, or even biblically correct to say that Jesus' religion was Judaism when the Bible shows Him taking every available opportunity to oppose it in public.

Jesus corrected the Pharisees (and practitioners of other sects of Judaism) in areas where they were mistaken.

Christianity itself began as a sect of Judaism.

 

[Taken]

Surely. But do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit”?

The word TRINUE...TRINITY....to me simply means Three United.
Three (parts of God, for lack of better term)....
ESSENTIAL for His WILL, to be manifested....ie created and made.

I have no issue with the WORD TRINUE / TRINITY.
I do NOT agree with the more modern Catholic teaching sketch of “the shield of faith”...with their WRITING;
Father IS NOT
Son IS NOT
HS IS NOT

Gods Estate, His Hands, His breath, His emotions, etc. are simply additional knowledge. BUT nothing is MANIFESTED....without..
Gods WILL, WORD, POWER....ie the specifics “TRI” of TRIUNE.

All the Additional, Names, Titles, Descriptions....EACH applies to WHAT Gods Himself elected to CALL, His WILL, His WORD, His POWER.

AND, human men DO THE SAME THING.

 

[Matthias]

The word TRINUE...TRINITY....to me simply means Three United.
Three (parts of God, for lack of better term)....
ESSENTIAL for His WILL, to be manifested....ie created and made.

I have no issue with the WORD TRINUE / TRINITY.
I do NOT agree with the more modern Catholic teaching sketch of “the shield of faith”...with their WRITING;
Father IS NOT
Son IS NOT
HS IS NOT

Gods Estate, His Hands, His breath, His emotions, etc. are simply additional knowledge. BUT nothing is MANIFESTED....without..
Gods WILL, WORD, POWER....ie the specifics “TRI” of TRIUNE.

All the Additional, Names, Titles, Descriptions....EACH applies to WHAT Gods Himself elected to CALL, His WILL, His WORD, His POWER.

AND, human men DO THE SAME THING.

That’s a clear statement of what you believe.

These days, “Trinity” can mean just about anything.

HOT isn’t dead, but it’s dying.

 

[Taken]

Surely. But do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit”?

Jesus SAID.......Looking at Him was SEEING the FATHER.
Jesus SAID.......He and His Father ARE ONE.
God SAID.........He would purpose in HIMSELF.
God SAID.........sending His Word to Earth, in the Likeness AS a man, ....God would be A Father to Him, and He would be to Him, A Son.
Scripture says...Jesus IS the Christ.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Power of God.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Wisdom of God.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Quickening Spirit.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Seed of God.

The BIG PICTURE is to KNOW they were introduced bit by bit...
The BIG PICTURE is to UNDERSTAND they are ALL ONE GOD.

It’s a roundabout to argue over WHAT God can be called at any given time....Any Name, Title, Description IN Scripture APPLIES.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus SAID.......Looking at Him was SEEING the FATHER.
Jesus SAID.......He and His Father ARE ONE.
God SAID.........He would purpose in HIMSELF.
God SAID.........sending His Word to Earth, in the Likeness AS a man, ....God would be A Father to Him, and He would be to Him, A Son.
Scripture says...Jesus IS the Christ.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Power of God.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Wisdom of God.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Quickening Spirit.
Scripture says...Christ IS the Seed of God.

The BIG PICTURE is to KNOW they were introduced bit by bit...
The BIG PICTURE is to UNDERSTAND they are ALL ONE GOD.

It’s a roundabout to argue over WHAT God can be called at any given time....Any Name, Title, Description IN Scripture APPLIES.

I’m not @ScottA. I have more in common with you than I do with him.

 

[ScottA]

Surely. But do you agree with @Taken that “Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit”?

The issue here is the result of trying to say what is true this way or that. To answer your question, or to agree with Taken with only that much information...the answer would be true or false depending on the context.

In other words, If I said, "God with us is Jesus"...that is true. And if I said, "Christ is the Father or the Son is the Father", that is false. And if you said, "See, Jesus and the Father are not the same!" that would be correct. But if you said "Jesus and the Father are not both God", that would be false.

And, indeed, that is what has been going on here.

And even thought there have been many explanations as to how they are One and the same but different in our knowledge of them, many still seem incapable of understanding a supreme being that is all of the above (no pun intended)...and yet the problem goes on because in the thinking of men "they" does not compute as "One." Which is to say, the problem and the shortcoming of understanding falls to men who believe that the terms of men are the terms of God also. When they are not.

 

[Matthias]

The issue here is the result of trying to say what is true this way or that. To answer your question, or to agree with Taken with only that much information...the answer would be true or false depending on the context.

In other words, If I said, "God with us is Jesus"...that is true. And if I said, "Christ is the Father or the Son is the Father", that is false. And if you said, "See, Jesus and the Father are not the same!" that would be correct. But if you said "Jesus and the Father are not both God", that would be false.

And, indeed, that is what has been going on here.

And even thought there have been many explanation as to how they are One and the same but different in our knowledge of them, many still seem incapable of understanding a supreme being that is all of the above (no pun intended)...and yet the problem goes on because in the thinking of men "they" does not compute as "One." Which is to say, the problem and the shortcoming of understanding falls to men who believe that the terms of men are the terms of God also. When they are not.

That locates you in the “maybe, maybe not” column, at least for the time being.

Perhaps @Taken will provide additional information to help you decide whether the two of you are in agreement or not.

P.S.

I probably should add that it may not make any difference to one or both of you if you’re in agreement or not.

 

[Taken]

That’s a clear statement of what you believe.

These days, “Trinity” can mean just about anything.

HOT isn’t dead, but it’s dying.

“HOT” ?

Nothing new... everything, behavior, tolerance, has and is continually turning TRUTHS into LIES.....and doesn’t require but a few decades for LIES to be common acceptable Truths.

For EXAMPLE: a few common words today...did NOT originally mean what we have changed them to mean.

Cute, bully, prestigious, garble, nervous, fantastic, dapper, backlog, nice silly, assassin, bad, sick, cool....

 

[ScottA]

That locates you in the “maybe, maybe not” column, at least for the time being.

If there is a "maybe" in there...it is with you.

 

[Matthias]

“HOT” ?

An acronym for “historical orthodox trinitarianism” - @Behold calls it “Classic Trinity”.

While we’re on the subject of acronyms, I coined this one a couple of decades ago:

TAHOT - “Trinitarians Against Historical Orthodox Trinitarianism”.

Nothing new... everything, behavior, tolerance, has and is continually turning TRUTHS into LIES.....and doesn’t require but a few decades for LIES to be common acceptable Truths.

For EXAMPLE: a few common words today...did NOT originally mean what we have changed them to mean.

Cute, bully, prestigious, garble, nervous, fantastic, dapper, backlog, nice silly, assassin, bad, sick, cool....

Good points.

 

[Matthias]

If there is a "maybe" in there...it is with you.

Me? I’m pretty sure @Taken knows I’m not in agreement with him. If he didn’t know before, he knows now.