So are the parables, unless again you think Jesus was lying when he spoke them? Luke 16 is a real story about Lazarus and the rich man. The Greek word used for 'WAS', is εἰμί (eimi), and connotes 'to be, or to exist'. You have a very bad habit of making fallacious statements about scripture. All parables are historical facts simply because they were actually said. If you think there's no truth in them that again you think Jesus lied. It seems to keep coming back to this doesn't it ATP? You're constantly asserting that Jesus lies.ATP said:
God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
When describing OSAS, parables describe the spiritual gap between believers and nonbelievers. Once you are born again you cannot be unborn, thus teaching lessons of wisdom.StanJ said:
No parable describes OSAS. Most Parables describe the religiosity of Israel at the time and how they could not see what was right in their midst, that being Jesus as their Messiah. Again, you refuse to answer direct questions and deflect to some other issue.ATP said:
That is what I am saying Stan. Either you believe Jesus is the Messiah or you do not. Rom 10:9.StanJ said:
Isa 51:6 NIV Lift up your eyes to the heavens, look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Isa 55:12-13 NIV You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands. 13 Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper, and instead of briers the myrtle will grow. This will be for the LORD’s renown, for an everlasting sign, that will endure forever.”
Isa 40:1-2 NIV Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. 2Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed, that her sin has been paid for, that she has received from the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.
It does. So what happens when you believe in the resurrection. Do you have the promise of eternal life?StanJ said:
The issue wasn't believing in the resurrection. The issue that I was dealing with you on was that there are believers who are lazy. Hence the ten virgins.ATP said:
5 of them were lazy and 5 were not. Also the subsequent parable about the talents shows how those who are lazy will receive nothing and even what they have will be taken away and given to those who do have plus they will be thrown out into the darkness. So if you really do believe as you say you do that the parables are true then you should probably see exactly what Jesus is saying in these two in Matthew 25.
As you yourself have stated many times, it's not just a matter of belief, it's a matter of commitment. The Bible tells us it's a matter of faith. What it is not a matter of, is playing on words. Many people in Jesus's day believed in the resurrection, but they didn't really know the resurrection. When Jesus said I am the resurrection and the life, they were confused because they really didn't understand how Jesus could say he was the resurrection. When Jesus tells you by his word that you EFFECTUALLY have eternal life, why is it you don't really understand that does not mean you have it now?
No one possesses a promise they just believe it because they know that God will honor his word and do what he says he will do when he says he will do it.
His promise to give eternal life to those who endure, is not the issue. The issue is, will everyone that thinks they are eternally secure, endure? I'm sure the servants that thought he was secure, in the fact that he buried his master's talent, was secure, but he found out in the end that he never was secure, because he never did anything about it by using his one talent to further his master's cause.
How is that possible though. Rom 8:38-39 says neither death nor life can separate the elect from God, and the lake of fire is the second death. Do you understand now? Your parable theory is contradictory to the entire Gospel message.StanJ said:
If OSAS can be proven false by using parables then God is a liar and in contradiction with the rest of the Gospel. Whoever does not believe has made Him out to be a liar...
Heb 6:16:20 NIV People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
Similar threads
