God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!

[mjrhealth]

When God repented for creating mankind, I can understand why. Look at all teh unbelief in all these posts.

 

[StanJ]

willing participants.... :unsure:

???

 

[Angelina]

When God repented for creating mankind, I can understand why. Look at all teh unbelief in all these posts.

This is more about a specific doctrinal viewpoint. It has nothing to do with unbelief.

 

[ATP]

You seem to imply that New believing Christians can sit on their laurels and not grow from there.

Remember we discussed who the accuser is? The devil? You're accusing me of things I don't believe in. I am simply stating a fact about God. There's a long list of things in Rom 8:35-39 that will not separate us from God. We can go over them if you like.

We are to also endure to the end just as those before us endured. 1 Corinthians 4:12, 1 Corinthians 9:12, 2 Thessalonians 1:4 2 Timothy 2:12, 2 Timothy 4:5, Hebrews 6: 13-15, James 1:12, James 5:11

Enduring and running the race is about winning crowns in heaven. It has nothing to do with our original salvation...

1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Exactly Stan, now you're getting it. Do not confuse the promise we have now to when it will be revealed, at first resurrection.

No, you just like equivocating. The promise is definitely real as is eternal life, we just don't receive them at the same time.

The promise and when it is revealed. You seem to be having trouble with this. How can I help?

Why is it that christians spend more time finding reason as to why God cant save them than excpeting that He can. What is wrong with Gods plan for salvation, it seems to have a major flaw in it, consideroing teh conversation, was Christs death not enough, what more does God neeed to do to save us????

It's because of unbelief. It'll only get worse mjr. Strap on tight.

 

[Angelina]

???

Stan, mjr said..

Why is it that christians spend more time finding reason as to why God cant save them than excpeting that He can. What is wrong with Gods plan for salvation, it seems to have a major flaw in it, consideroing teh conversation, was Christs death not enough, what more does God neeed to do to save us????

and I replied with...

willing participants....

I apologize if this came across flippant, it certainly was not my intention. :unsure:

 

[mjrhealth]

willing participants.... :unsure:

Well God knew we wouldnt be, He is God after all.

Stil I ask, is His plan flawed????

 

[ATP]

This is more about a specific doctrinal viewpoint. It has nothing to do with unbelief.

It has everything to do with unbelief.

 

[StanJ]

Stan, mjr said..

and I replied with...


I apologize if this came across flippant, it certainly was not my intention. :unsure:

Not at all, it just came across out of context because you didn't quote anything.

 

[ATP]

(1) Confidence comes through believing...

Heb 6:9 NLT Dear friends, even though we are talking this way, we really don't believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

(2) God cannot lie...

Heb 6:16:20 NIV People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[StanJ]

Exactly Stan, now you're getting it. Do not confuse the promise we have now to when it will be revealed, at first resurrection.
The promise and when it is revealed. You seem to be having trouble with this. How can I help?

I'm not confused at all but apparently you're deliberately trying to confuse others? I'm not really sure why you play this little game but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop. That's how you can help everybody. I may have to seriously consider putting you back on ignore because you really haven't progressed much from the first time I put you on ignore.

 

[ATP]

I'm not confused at all but apparently you're deliberately trying to confuse others? I'm not really sure why you play this little game but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop. That's how you can help everybody. I may have to seriously consider putting you back on ignore because you really haven't progressed much from the first time I put you on ignore.

It is quite simple. We should not confuse the promise we have now vs when it will be revealed. My goal is not to confuse you, but to help you understand the things of God John 3:3. I apologize Stan.

 

[Angelina]

Remember we discussed who the accuser is? The devil? You're accusing me of things I don't believe in. I am simply stating a fact about God. There's a long list of things in Rom 8:35-39 that will not separate us from God. We can go over them if you like.

You said that I was the accuser of the brethren because I did not believe in the OSAS doctrine, yes I remember...why? :huh: It was Paul who stated these things because he and the other believers were being persecuted at that time for the sake of the gospel. In his parting comment, he stresses that through all their hardship, nothing will separate them from Gods love.

Enduring and running the race is about winning crowns in heaven. It has nothing to do with our original salvation...1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

The prize Paul's speaks of here is eternal life. The perishable crown and the imperishable crown represent two different positions. It is not a literal. The imperishable crown is awarded to the believer who finishes the race. But how can one win a race if he is not going to start? 1 Timothy 6:12, 2 Timothy 4:7

It's because of unbelief. It'll only get worse mjr. Strap on tight.

Mjr ~ it's nothing to do with unbelief, it has to do with a particular doctrine trying to pass it'self off as a generally accepted theory...

 

[StanJ]

It is quite simple. We should not confuse the promise we have now vs when it will be revealed. My goal is not to confuse you, but to help you understand the things of God John 3:3. I apologize Stan.

I haven't had a problem from the beginning understanding this ATP, but your equivocal type of posting as well as your vacillating back and forth between one point and the other is what frustrates me. At this point I'm pretty sure you're doing it on purpose but what can I do you're the one that's accountable to God.
Condescension in the guise of piousness doesn't really work with most people, including me.

 

[Angelina]

Christianity is weak today because new believers think that can be saved yet not change their lifestyle relying totally on God's grace and not on their responsibility as new born babes to grow and mature and bear good fruit...JM2c

 

[StanJ]

Christianity is weak today because new believers think that can be saved yet not change their lifestyle relying totally on God's grace and not on their responsibility as new born babes to grow and mature and bear good fruit...JM2c

True, and in my opinion that is because of the teaching they don't receive. I also believe that it's partly because a lot do not seek the in filling of the Holy Spirit which is the power that we need to move on and Christ. Similar to the disciples that Paul prayed over and Acts 19 to receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[ATP]

You said that I was the accuser of the brethren because I did not believe in the OSAS doctrine, yes I remember...why? :huh: It was Paul who stated these things because he and the other believers were being persecuted at that time for the sake of the gospel. In his parting comment, he stresses that through all their hardship, nothing will separate them from Gods love.

You're accusing Christians of being lazy because they follow a belief you disagree with.

Christianity is weak today because new believers think that can be saved yet not change their lifestyle relying totally on God's grace and not on their responsibility as new born babes to grow and mature and bear good fruit...JM2c

Again, more accusing.

The prize Paul's speaks of here is eternal life. The perishable crown and the imperishable crown represent two different positions. It is not a literal. The imperishable crown is awarded to the believer who finishes the race. But how can one win a race if he is not going to start? 1 Timothy 6:12, 2 Timothy 4:7

We already have received the imperishable crown when we believed and became born again Angelina. What does "born of God" mean here. Notice the word "believe". What are we believing in?

1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 5:1 NIV Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

Mjr ~ it's nothing to do with unbelief, it has to do with a particular doctrine trying to pass it'self off as a generally accepted theory...

It has to do with the way you look at the Gospel message. God is love!

I haven't had a problem from the beginning understanding this ATP, but your equivocal type of posting as well as your vacillating back and forth between one point and the other is what frustrates me. At this point I'm pretty sure you're doing it on purpose but what can I do you're the one that's accountable to God.
Condescension in the guise of piousness doesn't really work with most people, including me.

Please help me understand where I went wrong, we can go from there.

 

[Angelina]

Yes, discipleship is very important. Something the Churches should have as a program in their church. I also think that new believers need to be part of a body of Christ to grow. Some just get saved and then try to work things out for themselves...

 

[ATP]

Similar to the disciples that Paul prayed over and Acts 19 to receive the Holy Spirit.

If you've received the Holy Spirit, then you must know you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[ATP]

Some just get saved and then try to work things out for themselves...

More accusing.

2 Cor 3:2-5 NIV You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

 

[justaname]

Hi justaname,


I guess it depends on your knowledge of him and your willingness to obey his will as a born-again believer. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Please clarify...

In your post you stated God supernaturally saved you from certain death. You were in water over your head literally, and you were drowning. You said He did this because He has a plan for your life. I say no doubt plans to glorify Himself and His great name.

My question then is what if you were metaphorically drowning? What if somehow you got in over your head in sin? Would this change His plan for you? What if your faith stammers? Would our God that saved your physical life for His plan allow your spiritual life to drown without supernaturally intervening?

God is more faithful and more jealous than any created being. How fierce will a mother lion fight for her cubs? How much more adamant is the Father in keeping and protecting His own? If we as mere human parents know how to protect our children from danger that leads to death, how much greater does the Father have the ability and desire to do the same when it comes to our eternal fate?

Those God intends to save will be saved because like you said, He has a plan for them. And His plan is to glorify the name above all names, Jesus Messiah.

Does this give us liscense to sin? Never! Are we immune from the effects of not having faith? No! Yet His children are chastened not rejected. Salvation is not about us, it never has been. Salvation is about Him and how gracious and merciful He is.