ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
hmmmm, you say potato I say potarto, you say tomato I say tomarto:
you got nothing better to do with your time?
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you got nothing better to do with your time?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
is breathing against the rules?you got nothing better to do with your time?
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I wonder what Jesus meant when he said 'we sang a dirge and you did not mourn, we pipped and you did not dance'?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And your point about judgment?
No subordination? Really? so you take 1 cor. 15:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
As a lie! Okay. It is not in time- for it clearly says the end-AFTER Jesus destroys death which is right before the Great White Throne Judgment, which is right before eternity commences for us!
Jesus is Yahweh! But he is subordinate to His Father! Jesus reigns only until He vanquishes all enemies. That does not denigrate Him- it honors Hims as the Scripture says here as written.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Also remember we do not pray to jesus or the3 Holy Spirit.
We pray to the Father only- in the name of the Son through the power of the Holy Spirit- God involved throughout!
We worship the Father and son! We do not pray to teh Son.
We dop not Worshihp the Spirit or pray to the Spirit! That is the bible
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
1 corinthians is NOT the eternal Reign whiuch is in Revelation 22:1-3, where it is clear that BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are on the SAME Thron, as JOINT RULERS!
You simply cannot grasp this Truth!
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
your Bible is wrong!
John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
Acts 13:2
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them
They WORSHIP the Lord, and the Holy Spirit responds!
2 Cor chap 3 shows the Holy Spirit is LORD!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So what kingdom does Jesus give back to His Father after He has conquered deatrh- which is after His millenial reign? Please give scriptural support for your answer.
Jesus is King regnant but the Father is still above the Son.
1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Revelation 20:12-15
King James Version
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Sop Jesus must reign UNTIL the last enemy is defeated which is death! We see in REv. 20:14 death defeated and destroyed!
Then REv. 21 shows eternity reigning again.
Lets look at the verse one more time:
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Jesus reigns until he defeats death. He defeats death right before eternity "starts".
So Jesus turnjs the kingdom over, submits Himself back to teh Father- but you say no! so please give us the insight of this exegesis of yours.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Don't know which bad version of Scripture you are using, but the word "me" is not in the Greek.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Of course!
I never thought different!
We pray to the Father through the son in the power of the spirit.
We worship the Father and Son. But nowhere does it say to pray to Jesus!
Matter of fact wqhen the disciples asked Jesus to pray- He said to pray "Our Father" Nowhere do you see jesus telling the disciples to pray to Him.
NOwhere in the ep[istles (the constititution of the church) are we instructed to pray to jesus or the Holy Spirit.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
your biggest problem is that you don't understand the Godhead. There is NO Person in the Eternal Godhead that is "greater" then the other. When Jesus says "the Father is greater than I", this is functional, and limited to the Incarnation, till then end of this age. John 17:5 is very clear on this, as it Philippians 2:5-11 and Hebrews 2:9, where we read that Jesus gave up His equality with the Father when He became the God-Man, but resumed His coequal position at His Ascension.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
I used the HCSB, it makes no difference, because verse 14 is very clear, ""If you ask anything in My name, I will do it". There is no reason here to suppose that we are to ask the Father, and then Jesus acts. The fact that we ask and Jesus responds, is clear that we ask HIM.
Matthew 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." What do you think this means, if not in prayer to Jesus?
I don't see why you have this unbiblical notion, that somehow the Father is "supreme", and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are "lesser"? this is heresy, as it is not anywhere in the Bible, but very bad theology!
In John 5:23 says that Jesus is to be HONOURED in the SAME WAY as the Father is, only if He is absoultely COEQUAL with the Father, could Jesus have said this.
In 1 Corinthians 1:9, we have the Father working on behalf of Jesus Christ, which is impossible, if the Father is "greater"
Scripture is against your theology
The Father is 100% YHWH. Jesus Christ is 100% YHWH. The Holy Spirit is 100% YHWH.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
when God the Father says to WORSHIP Jesus Christ in Hebrews 1:6, do you suppose that this cannot include prayer? When Stephen was being stroned in Acts chapter 7, and he looked up and saw the Father and Jesus Christ at His Right Hand, Stephen calls on JESUS, and not the Father! This is because they are BOTH EQUAL.
The thief on the cross in Luke, prayed to Jesus Christ directly
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
This is what John 14:14 reads in the Greek manuscript P66, which is dated from between 100-200 AD, which is the oldest for this. Add to this the Codex Sinitacus and Codex Vatanicus, 4th cent. The Old Latin from the Greek, 2nd cent. the Latin Vulgate, 4th cent.
ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου ἐγὼ ποιήσω
if anything you ask ME in My Name, I will do it
This is what is called, game, set and match
Praise the Lord!
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
that is not what teh bible says.
Teh Triune god all members are equally divine, but not all have the same position of authority.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
1. It doesn't matter what English version you use- me - is not in the Greek.
2. Matt. 18 is about church discipline by elders. Jesus is with them in the decision making- through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said He had to leave so the comforter could come. You have Him leaving and coming back.
3. Because at the end Jesus submits Himself to the Father so that God may be all in all! It does not mean Jesus is less "God" than the father, just a position of authority.
4. Honor is "time" which means place a value on. I know Jesus is equal to the Father in divinity, they are equal. But that does not mean all three persons in the god head have the same authority.
5. I got my theology from Scripture.
6. I agree all three are equally Yahweh! But that does not mean they all occupy the same position. It also that if Jesus submits to the Father As SCriptures says He will do at the end., He is somehow less God than the Father.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOu need to do a study on the different forms of what we call prayer. We worship the son equally with the Father, but making our petitions and pleas Jesus commanded we pray to the Father!
Worship is not the kind of prayer Jesus said to direct to the father.
5 Forms of Prayer
- Adoration and Worship. In prayers of adoration or worship, we exalt the greatness of God, and we acknowledge our dependence on Him in all things.
- Petition. Outside of the Mass, prayers of petition are the type of prayer with which we are most familiar. ...
- Intercession. Prayers of intercession – praying for others – is another form of petition, but they are important enough to be considered their own type of prayer.
- Thanksgiving. Perhaps the most neglected type of prayer is a prayer of thanksgiving. ...
- Praise. Prayers of praise acknowledge God for what He is. ...
2,3 are to be directed to the father only.
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