God's Desire is that All Men be Saved!

[reformed1689]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is in the immediate context.

No, actually it isn't. He had already moved on to another subject.

I want to hear it from you. You already know what my interpretation is. I want to know what yours is in light of the added information.

.I didn't ask for your interpretation, I asked for your application of my interpretation. Interpretation is not the same thing as the application.

1 and 3 are correct. It is indeed written in English; otherwise we would not be able to read it in English. And how is it that you think that it is not written to us? if that were true, the Bible doesn't apply to us. But in all reality it is God's message to everyone inspired by the Holy Ghost.

No none of the three are true. It was not originally written in English. It was translated in English. There is a HUGE difference. There is a difference between the Bible being written to us, and written for us. It was not written to us. Just look at how the books of the NT are addressed. But it was certainly written for us.

If it is the same building then I wouldn't be that far off.

In my example it is NOT the same building.

And also, there are scriptures that apply that way. Have you ever heard of how prophecy works like there are two mountains and a valley in between? Prophecy, most often, speaks of both mountains and thus the scenario you have presented above is not so far-fetched. For example, some prophecies applied to the time in question and apply to the time in question, but also have application for today.

What on earth does that have to do with my point?

I would only say to you that I believe that you are hardening your heart with this statement.

Read Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, and Hebrews 4:7.

Hardening my heart because I actually understand how to interpret Scripture and you clearly don't? Nonsense.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, actually it isn't. He had already moved on to another subject.

It is found within a chapter of the verse in question. And also refers to the same subject.

.I didn't ask for your interpretation, I asked for your application of my interpretation. Interpretation is not the same thing as the application.

You first; because I asked you first. And also, I have no idea how it would be applied in light of the added information; to me the added information seems to nullify the application in the verse. So if there is any application any more in light of it, I want to hear from you what it is.

What on earth does that have to do with my point?

And you say I'm not very intelligent (don't have common sense)...

I have to say that you seem to me to be pretty dense.

If you don't get it, maybe you should think about it longer...

Nonsense.

1Co 1:18, For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

[comment removed]

 

[justbyfaith]

It was not written to us.

The Holy Spirit of God intended it for us; and in that sense it was written to us by Him.

 

[reformed1689]

The Holy Spirit of God intended it for us; and in that sense it was written to us by Him.

For us, yes. But not to us. There is a distinct difference. And that difference, which you clearly do not grasp, is clouding your interpretation abilities.

 

[justbyfaith]

For us, yes. But not to us. There is a distinct difference. And that difference, which you clearly do not grasp, is clouding your interpretation abilities.

It is indeed to us.

And the fact that you do not see this is clouding your ability to interpret holy scripture.

For if it is not to us, then it does not apply to us.

You seem to think that the scripture is not to you and therefore does not apply to you.

No responsibility, therefore, to heed what is spoken by holy scripture.

I say to you verily that that is a deception from the enemy of our souls.

 

[reformed1689]

For if it is not to us, then it does not apply to us.

No, this is not true. And this is just ignorant and a clear misunderstanding of Scripture.

You seem to think that the scripture is not to you and therefore does not apply to you.

Strawman argument. Scripture was written for us and does apply to us.

I say to you verily that that is a deception from the enemy of our souls.

Except you made a strawman argument and did not give my actual position.

 

[justbyfaith]

If it is for you and not also to you, then you can take of its benefits but not have to heed its warnings. Think about the words for and to and how they apply to this statement.

If it is to you, then all of it is for you and applies to you.

But if it is merely for you, then it is merely and only a gift to you that you can take of what you wish.

I say to you truly that it is both.

If you do not heed the scriptures because you believe that they are merely for you, then you are deceiving yourself into thinking that you don't need to heed its many warnings.

 

[reformed1689]

If it is for you and not also to you, then you can take of its benefits but not have to heed its warnings. Think about the words for and to and how they apply to this statement.

If it is to you, then all of it is for you and applies to you.

But if it is merely for you, then it is merely and only a gift to you that you can take of what you wish.

I say to you truly that it is both.

If you do not heed the scriptures because you believe that they are merely for you, then you are deceiving yourself into thinking that you don't need to heed its many warnings.

So, God is writing TO YOU to go and destroy the canaanites? God is writing to YOU to put your rod out over the Red Sea? This is nonsense.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, God is writing TO YOU to go and destroy the canaanites? God is writing to YOU to put your rod out over the Red Sea? This is nonsense.

He is not telling me to do those things.

In context, those are stories of God telling the Israelites to do those things.

The holy scriptures are an integrated message system composed of 66 books, written by 40 different authors, written on 3 continents over a period of about 3,000 years.

I say to you verily that the message of the Bible is to you and me.

 

[shipeichong]

God gives us free wills. We are accountable for our actions on earth.
Those who reject Jesus will go to hell.
Yet, God is merciful. Who knows what He will do in the end?

 

[logabe]

One way or another (Revelation 20:15, Revelation 20:10).

Yes... most will be reconciled (made God's friend) through the Lake of Fire. In God's mercy
and Love he established the Lake of Fire to purify the believers that received a Passover
experience @ the Great White Throne. In other words, when they finally saw God, they
believed and received their justification, but they still had to go through their fiery trials in
the Lake of Fire, which will bring them their sanctification. At the end of their Lake of Fire
experience they will receive their glorification and God will be all in all.

Now we can understand what Paul meant in Colossians 1:20.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[reformed1689]

He is not telling me to do those things.

In context, those are stories of God telling the Israelites to do those things.

The holy scriptures are an integrated message system composed of 66 books, written by 40 different authors, written on 3 continents over a period of about 3,000 years.

I say to you verily that the message of the Bible is to you and me.

So you look at context for some things and not others? How do you decide? You are inconsistent.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes... most will be reconciled (made God's friend) through the Lake of Fire. In God's mercy
and Love he established the Lake of Fire to purify the believers that received a Passover
experience @ the Great White Throne. In other words, when they finally saw God, they
believed and received their justification, but they still had to go through their fiery trials in
the Lake of Fire, which will bring them their sanctification. At the end of their Lake of Fire
experience they will receive their glorification and God will be all in all.

Now we can understand what Paul meant in Colossians 1:20.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

I think that you are not including in your theology what the Bible says elsewhere about hell and the lake of fire:

Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Pro 30:15, The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
Pro 30:16, The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.


God is a God of justice. Universalism is not the true gospel.

Your proposition is wishful thinking.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you look at context for some things and not others? How do you decide? You are inconsistent.

How is it that you think God is telling me in the Bible to part the Red Sea? He told Moses to do that.

Should we take commands given to other people and apply them to ourselves?

The epistles and the gospels, Acts and Revelation are written to the church.

And yes, I do believe that context is important.

 

[reformed1689]

How is it that you think God is telling me in the Bible to part the Red Sea? He told Moses to do that.

Exactly. My point is it was a word given to a certain people at a certain time. Does it have application for us? Absolutely. But it was not to us.

 

[justbyfaith]

Exactly. My point is it was a word given to a certain people at a certain time. Does it have application for us? Absolutely. But it was not to us.

You're missing it. The Bible says that God told Moses to part the Red Sea. It doesn't say, "you part the Red Sea".

But when the Bible tells us to do something, we are to do it. Those parts of the Bible are to us.

And even the part that tells Moses to part the Red Sea is to us; as we can derive application for our spiritual lives from even that.

And yes, if the scripture is only for us and not to us, then indeed we can partake of its benefits without heeding its warnings.

I would not advise you attempting to do that, however. For you truly will not be able to partake of its benefits without heeding its warnings.

 

[reformed1689]

But when the Bible tells us to do something, we are to do it. Those parts of the Bible are to us.

So you make sacrifices? Do you put women on their periods away from everyone because they are unclean? Do you keep the Sabbath? Do you keep all the feasts?

 

[justbyfaith]

So you make sacrifices? Do you put women on their periods away from everyone because they are unclean? Do you keep the Sabbath? Do you keep all the feasts?

We are to take the whole of the Bible in context, as an integrated message system. The message of the Bible is indeed to us.

But the whole counsel of God tells us that we are no longer bound to the letter of the law; but rather are obedient to the spirit of the law. Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6.

In Hebrews 10 we are told that the old system of animal sacrifices is waxing old and passing away; as well as Hebrews 7:12 and Hebrews 8:13 and 2 Corinthians 3:13-14.

 

[logabe]

I think that you are not including in your theology what the Bible says elsewhere about hell and the lake of fire:

God is a consuming FIRE. The purpose of the fire is to cleanse us from all unrighteous. God uses fire in our life
in the form of fiery trials. It is called, judgment starts at the house of God. So God judges us with that same
fire to change our character and nature to mirror his.

John the Baptist said, Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire. As we begin to read God's word, it begins
to change us from glory to glory. Why? Because the Holy Ghost will give you the truth of that word and if you are not
in line with that word you become convicted. The Holy Ghost reveals my lawlessness when he gives me revelation
through his word and that is what destroys the old man. As Paul says, we have to die daily. Jeremiah 23:29 says,

29 "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer
which shatters a rock?"

When we here the word coming out of the fire it unmasks the sin that is in our hearts and we are terrified. All the secrets
of the heart are manifested when his word or law comes out of the midst of the fire.

Yes it will be tormenting to the ones that didn't accept Jesus in their life time, but because God still loves them he will
place them in the Lake of Fire for their purification also. The Lake of Fire will be a long duration where many will be in
torment, because they will struggle with being changed. They will still want to hold on to their old man, in which, it will
cause them to struggle for a very long time, but in the end God will show mercy and release them @ the Jubilee.
Romans 8:21 says,

21 Because the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage
of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.




Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Pro 30:15, The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
Pro 30:16, The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.


God is a God of justice. Universalism is not the true gospel.

Your proposition is wishful thinking.

God's word is the true gospel. What Jesus said is the Truth. The purification in the Lake of Fire is God's justice. God's
justice always comes through His Love for his people. His people is everyone that Jesus Christ died for. He bought the
whole creation and he has a plan for everyone of them. In other words, the whole creation shall be set free in due time.
I am not ashamed to tell the world whether they like it or not, they are coming home one day and they will love it!

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Renniks]

He is not willing that any elected person perish.

That's not what scripture says. It says he is not willing than any should perish.