God's Desire is that All Men be Saved!

[reformed1689]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were going to post the full context.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There’s the context my friend.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were going to post the full context.

They post verses but offer no exposition at all.

 

[reformed1689]

There’s the context my friend.

It's not even the full context, but yes, enough to show it is speaking of the elect.

 

[Renniks]

Also not what I said. Would you like to continue with the strawman arguments?

Answer the question. If God's will is always done, everything that happens is his will, including all our sin. Yet what does scripture say? 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says his will is our sanctification, that we all abstain from sexual sin, and yet we live in a world where 70 percent of Christian men watch porn. You don't see a contrast there between God's will and what actually goes on in this world?

 

[Renniks]

They post verses but offer no exposition at all.

He asked for the verses, I posted the verses. If you want my exposition, I can do that.

 

[Renniks]

Then obviously God wills some to perish.

No, then obviously we live in a world where God's will is not always done.

 

[reformed1689]

Answer the question. If God's will is always done, everything that happens is his will, including all our sin. Yet what does scripture say? 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says his will is our sanctification, that we all abstain from sexual sin, and yet we live in a world where 70 percent of Christian men watch porn. You don't see a contrast there between God's will and what actually goes on in this world?

There is a difference in what God wishes, desires, take pleasure in, etc, and what God's plan is, what His decree is. So yes, God wishes that we not sin, does not take pleasure in our sin, but permits us for a time to be left in our sin. So His will is to allow, for a time, sin to exist.

 

[reformed1689]

No, then obviously we live in a world where God's will is not always done.

So then God is not sovereign. You serve a false weak god. A puny god. I serve the God of the Bible who is not thwarted or taken by surprise.

 

[Renniks]

There is a difference in what God wishes, desires, take pleasure in, etc, and what God's plan is, what His decree is. So yes, God wishes that we not sin, does not take pleasure in our sin, but permits us for a time to be left in our sin. So His will is to allow, for a time, sin to exist.

Ok, so which is it? First, you say it's his decree, then you say he permits it. Those are two very different things. Fact is, everything under Calvinism happens by God's decree. Everything, and not because he foresees it, because according to your doctrine, he only foresees what he already decreed.

So, what you have is a two faced God, because you say his wishes one thing and and decrees another. You try to hold onto a logical contradiction. Two Face makes a good villain, that we can identify with, because we tend to be a bit two faced. But a two faced God? In scripture, the two faced one is Satan, not God, yet Calvinists create a god who tells us to do one thing, while the hand he holds behind his back shoves us into doing just the opposite. That's Satan's gig. No wonder Wesley said Calvinism makes God worse than Satan.

 

[Renniks]

So then God is not sovereign. You serve a false weak god. A puny god. I serve the God of the Bible who is not thwarted or taken by surprise.

Man is free because God is sovereign. Talk about straw men. Where did I say God was ever taken by surprise?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

It's exactly what it says. The only reason you believe us means a limited number of people is because you come to the text with the presupposition that that is true.
Besides it makes no sense if you believe in eternal security to say God's not willing any elect should fail to repent, when in your theology they are all predetermined to be saved.

You did not quote the whole text.
If you read down to the end of the chapter it is the long suffering of God that insures everyone spoken of is going to be saved.
Not the mockers and scoffers, but those referred to as to-usward. Have you ever read the whole chapter together. Then you might see it

 

[Invisibilis]

In this thread, those who misinterpret the word will, will mislead.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

In this thread, those who misinterpret the word will, will mislead.

That is true in any thread.

 

[Nancy]

It's exactly what it says. The only reason you believe us means a limited number of people is because you come to the text with the presupposition that that is true.
Besides it makes no sense if you believe in eternal security to say God's not willing any elect should fail to repent, when in your theology they are all predetermined to be saved.

Wasting your time on this one @Renniks BTW-welcome to the forum!

 

[Renniks]

You did not quote the whole text.
If you read down to the end of the chapter it is the long suffering of God that insures everyone spoken of is going to be saved.
Not the mockers and scoffers, but those referred to as to-usward. Have you ever read the whole chapter together. Then you might see it

I've read the whole bible multiple times. The end of the chapter confirms that people can reject Christ even after being saved.

"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position."
Further confirming that the Calvinist interpretation is wrong.

 

[Renniks]

Wasting your time on this one @Renniks BTW-welcome to the forum!

Thank you! Seems like a good one.

 

[logabe]

The above is utter nonsense. Do tell, how did you come up with this misinterpretation, and please, don't blame it on God.

I have to blame God, because I have no other choice. It is his words and not mine.
Ps. 2:8 says,

Ask of me, and I will give you the heathen for your inheritance,
and the utter most parts of the earth for your possession.

When we understand that God uses the few to save the many, then we can begin to
understand the purpose and plan of God. When Jesus Christ purchased the whole
world, he intended to bring the whole world back into the kingdom of God.

According to David, our inheritance is the people that are heathens, but our possession
will be the utter most parts of the earth. That is not happening right now and I agree that
it is very hard to believe. God made it that way to see if we could believe that He was able
to save the utter most parts of the earth. I believe that God is going to do just that. By faith,
their is no doubt that God's word will be accomplished.

David continued his thought in Ps. 22:27,

27 All the ends of the world will remember and turn unto the
Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before
you.

He's coming to execute judgement upon the ungodly. How? By the sword of His mouth. I don't
know about you, but that is some very good news!!!
Rev. 19:15 says,

And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he will
smite the nations: and he will rule them with a rod of iron:
and He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of
Almighty God.

So God's weapon to destroy the carnal minds of men and women is His mouth. He will
have a teaching war that will defeat His enemies and bring them into the kingdom of God.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[justbyfaith]

There is a very real hell that people go to for everlasting punishment (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46).

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I have to blame God, because I have no other choice. It is his words and not mine.
Ps. 2:8 says,

Ask of me, and I will give you the heathen for your inheritance,
and the utter most parts of the earth for your possession.

When we understand that God uses the few to save the many, then we can begin to
understand the purpose and plan of God. When Jesus Christ purchased the whole
world, he intended to bring the whole world back into the kingdom of God.

According to David, our inheritance is the people that are heathens, but our possession
will be the utter most parts of the earth. That is not happening right now and I agree that
it is very hard to believe. God made it that way to see if we could believe that He was able
to save the utter most parts of the earth. I believe that God is going to do just that. By faith,
their is no doubt that God's word will be accomplished.

David continued his thought in Ps. 22:27,

27 All the ends of the world will remember and turn unto the
Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before
you.

He's coming to execute judgement upon the ungodly. How? By the sword of His mouth. I don't
know about you, but that is some very good news!!!
Rev. 19:15 says,

And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he will
smite the nations: and he will rule them with a rod of iron:
and He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of
Almighty God.

So God's weapon to destroy the carnal minds of men and women is His mouth. He will
have a teaching war that will defeat His enemies and bring them into the kingdom of God.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

lol!!!!!