Got your ears on?

[mjrhealth]

Of God. The Way

So we dont agree, do we.

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Just another religion , you are doing the same as BOL, both defending a lie.... the great whore and here daughters fighting over who is teh most beautiful

mind you i not at all surprised,

 

[brakelite]

I notice that you do not actually address the scriptures that I offer you, yet you fully expect me to bow in reverent humility before the scriptures you quote me, yet you claim in the same breath they have no authority. I detect a great deal of inconsistency here.
"To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." The Bible and the Bible only ought to be the only foundation for faith and practice. Opinions of men with PhDs, diplomas in philosophy and theology, those taught in seminaries and Bible schools, mean zilch, unless they agree with scripture. The deductions of great scientists and theologians and academics, the decisions of councils in formulating creeds and Papal Bulls and ecclesiastical proclamations, are as numerous and as contradictory to one another and as numerous as are the churches they represent...and your egotistical pontifications and condemnations of others are right up there with the best of them. Like I said, you reject His word while paying lip service to the gospel and authority; and to cap it all off you deny the power of the gospel to change peoples lives, giving the glory of such changes to the devil, and condemning those who testify to the power of godliness in their lives as liars and charlatans. Well did the apstle speak of such as you when he said.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away....

….but in the same chapter to Timothy he said...

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[mjrhealth]

I notice that you do not actually address the scriptures that I offer you, yet you fully expect me to bow in reverent humility before the scriptures you quote me, yet you claim in the same breath they have no authority. I detect a great deal of inconsistency here.
"To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." The Bible and the Bible only ought to be the only foundation for faith and practice. Opinions of men with PhDs, diplomas in philosophy and theology, those taught in seminaries and Bible schools, mean zilch, unless they agree with scripture. The deductions of great scientists and theologians and academics, the decisions of councils in formulating creeds and Papal Bulls and ecclesiastical proclamations, are as numerous and as contradictory to one another and as numerous as are the churches they represent...and your egotistical pontifications and condemnations of others are right up there with the best of them. Like I said, you reject His word while paying lip service to the gospel and authority; and to cap it all off you deny the power of the gospel to change peoples lives, giving the glory of such changes to the devil, and condemning those who testify to the power of godliness in their lives as liars and charlatans. Well did the apstle speak of such as you when he said.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away....

….but in the same chapter to Timothy he said...

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

You are good at playing word games are you not. Jesus is His word, rejected every day by men, who worship a book over God, you quote all this beware stuff, and than you yourself lay stumbling blocks before men to ensnare them to lead them a way from grace to keeping the law, you tell them Jesus is the way and than you show them another the law, thats why it says,

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many

it is exactly what you are doing, SDA is not from God it is from men like all mens religions, playing lip service to God.

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

because

Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

and again

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

nothing new under the sun

 

[Marymog]

You know just as well as I do that the Bible contains 66 books.

How did you come to the 66 conclusion?

Curious Mary

 

[Enoch111]

How did you come to the 66 conclusion?

Anyone with a non-Catholic Bible would come to that conclusion. It's not exactly rocket science.

 

[farouk]

To some degree yes, but Eph 2:1 pretty sums it up in how that no one can see and no one can hear which pretty much sums it up.

A very searching opening to chapter 2 of Ephesians, which shows just how much we are dependent on the grace of God in the Gospel.

 

[Marymog]

Anyone with a non-Catholic Bible would come to that conclusion. It's not exactly rocket science.

Ok....As we historically know the 66 books started being called canonical since the Reformation. They threw out 7 books and Luther wanted to get rid of more. The Reformation rejected the 1,500 year teaching of The Churches' 73 books.

How did the Reformers decide that 66 books were inspired by God and not 73 books?

GBAWOTTGASABIWAT

 

[mjrhealth]

Ok....As we historically know the 66 books started being called canonical since the Reformation. They threw out 7 books and Luther wanted to get rid of more. The Reformation rejected the 1,500 year teaching of The Churches' 73 books.

How did the Reformers decide that 66 books were inspired by God and not 73 books?

GBAWOTTGASABIWAT

like the other mob, they decided what suited them and that was it,.;.. nothing to do with God

 

[Marymog]

like the other mob, they decided what suited them and that was it,.;.. nothing to do with God

So Scripture is not inspired by God? The 66 or the 73?

 

[mjrhealth]

So Scripture is not inspired by God? The 66 or the 73?

The koran is considered "scripture" was it inspired by God..???

 

[Enoch111]

How did the Reformers decide that 66 books were inspired by God and not 73 books?

That's not rocket science either. They had access to the printed Hebrew Bible and noted that the Tanakh had only 24 books, and NOT ONE OF THE APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

TORAH (the Law of Moses 5 books)
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

NEVIIM (NEBIIM) (the Prophets 8 books)
Joshua
Judges
Samuel (1 book)
Kings (1 book)
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
The Twelve Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea or Hoshea [הושע]
Joel or Yo'el [יואל]
Amos [עמוס]
Obadiah or Ovadyah [עובדיה]
Jonah or Yonah [יונה]
Micah or Mikhah [מיכה]
Nahum or Nachum [נחום]
Habakkuk or Habaquq [חבקוק]
Zephaniah or Tsefania [צפניה]
Haggai or Haggai [חגי]
Zechariah Zekharia [זכריה]
Malachi or Malakhi [מלאכי]

KETUVIM (KETHUBIM) (The Psalms 11 books)
Psalms (hence the name "the Psalms" being the first book)
Proverbs
Job
Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Daniel
Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
Chronicles (1 book)

But rather that follow the arrangement of the Hebrew Bible (which would have limited our Bibles to just 24 +27 = 51 books), they followed the breakdown of the OT as given in the Septuagint (with some rearrangement and minus the non-inspired apocryphal books). The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches retained some or all of the apocryphal books in their Bibles, and the additional 7 books of the RCC are marked below.

Books of the Septuagint (Source: CCEL)

• Genesis
• Exodus
• Leviticus
• Numbers
• Deuteronomy
• Joshua
• Judges
• Ruth
• Kings I (1 Samuel)
• Kings II (2 Samuel)
• Kings III (1 Kings)
• Kings IV (2 Kings
• Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles)
• Paralipomenon (2 Chronicles)
• Esdras I (Ezra)
• Esdras II (Nehemiah)
• Psalms of David
• Prayer of Manasseh*
• Proverbs
• Ecclesiastes
• Song of Solomon
• Job
• Wisdom of Solomon* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Wisdom of the Son of Sirach*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Esther
• Judith* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Tobit*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Hosea
• Amos
• Micah
• Joel
• Obadiah
• Jonah
• Nahum
• Habakkuk
• Zephaniah
• Haggai
• Zechariah
• Malachi
• Isaiah
• Jeremiah
• Baruch* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Lamentations of Jeremiah
• Epistles of Jeremiah*
• Ezekiel
• Daniel
• Song of the Three Children*
• Susanna*
• Bel and the Dragon*
• I Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• II Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• III Maccabees*

 

[Carl]

How did you come to the 66 conclusion?

Curious Mary

By counting....but of course I see you are catholic so there would be more.

 

[Marymog]

The koran is considered "scripture" was it inspired by God..???

YES

 

[Marymog]

That's not rocket science either. They had access to the printed Hebrew Bible and noted that the Tanakh had only 24 books, and NOT ONE OF THE APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

TORAH (the Law of Moses 5 books)
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

NEVIIM (NEBIIM) (the Prophets 8 books)
Joshua
Judges
Samuel (1 book)
Kings (1 book)
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
The Twelve Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea or Hoshea [הושע]
Joel or Yo'el [יואל]
Amos [עמוס]
Obadiah or Ovadyah [עובדיה]
Jonah or Yonah [יונה]
Micah or Mikhah [מיכה]
Nahum or Nachum [נחום]
Habakkuk or Habaquq [חבקוק]
Zephaniah or Tsefania [צפניה]
Haggai or Haggai [חגי]
Zechariah Zekharia [זכריה]
Malachi or Malakhi [מלאכי]

KETUVIM (KETHUBIM) (The Psalms 11 books)
Psalms (hence the name "the Psalms" being the first book)
Proverbs
Job
Song of Songs
Ruth

That's not rocket science either. They had access to the printed Hebrew Bible and noted that the Tanakh had only 24 books, and NOT ONE OF THE APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

TORAH (the Law of Moses 5 books)
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

NEVIIM (NEBIIM) (the Prophets 8 books)
Joshua
Judges
Samuel (1 book)
Kings (1 book)
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
The Twelve Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea or Hoshea [הושע]
Joel or Yo'el [יואל]
Amos [עמוס]
Obadiah or Ovadyah [עובדיה]
Jonah or Yonah [יונה]
Micah or Mikhah [מיכה]
Nahum or Nachum [נחום]
Habakkuk or Habaquq [חבקוק]
Zephaniah or Tsefania [צפניה]
Haggai or Haggai [חגי]
Zechariah Zekharia [זכריה]
Malachi or Malakhi [מלאכי]

KETUVIM (KETHUBIM) (The Psalms 11 books)
Psalms (hence the name "the Psalms" being the first book)
Proverbs
Job
Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Daniel
Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
Chronicles (1 book)

But rather that follow the arrangement of the Hebrew Bible (which would have limited our Bibles to just 24 +27 = 51 books), they followed the breakdown of the OT as given in the Septuagint (with some rearrangement and minus the non-inspired apocryphal books). The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches retained some or all of the apocryphal books in their Bibles, and the additional 7 books of the RCC are marked below.

Books of the Septuagint (Source: CCEL)

• Genesis
• Exodus
• Leviticus
• Numbers
• Deuteronomy
• Joshua
• Judges
• Ruth
• Kings I (1 Samuel)
• Kings II (2 Samuel)
• Kings III (1 Kings)
• Kings IV (2 Kings
• Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles)
• Paralipomenon (2 Chronicles)
• Esdras I (Ezra)
• Esdras II (Nehemiah)
• Psalms of David
• Prayer of Manasseh*
• Proverbs
• Ecclesiastes
• Song of Solomon
• Job
• Wisdom of Solomon* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Wisdom of the Son of Sirach*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Esther
• Judith* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Tobit*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Hosea
• Amos
• Micah
• Joel
• Obadiah
• Jonah
• Nahum
• Habakkuk
• Zephaniah
• Haggai
• Zechariah
• Malachi
• Isaiah
• Jeremiah
• Baruch* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Lamentations of Jeremiah
• Epistles of Jeremiah*
• Ezekiel
• Daniel
• Song of the Three Children*
• Susanna*
• Bel and the Dragon*
• I Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• II Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• III Maccabees*

Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Daniel
Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
Chronicles (1 book)

But rather that follow the arrangement of the Hebrew Bible (which would have limited our Bibles to just 24 +27 = 51 books), they followed the breakdown of the OT as given in the Septuagint (with some rearrangement and minus the non-inspired apocryphal books). The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches retained some or all of the apocryphal books in their Bibles, and the additional 7 books of the RCC are marked below.

Books of the Septuagint (Source: CCEL)

• Genesis
• Exodus
• Leviticus
• Numbers
• Deuteronomy
• Joshua
• Judges
• Ruth
• Kings I (1 Samuel)
• Kings II (2 Samuel)
• Kings III (1 Kings)
• Kings IV (2 Kings
• Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles)
• Paralipomenon (2 Chronicles)
• Esdras I (Ezra)
• Esdras II (Nehemiah)
• Psalms of David
• Prayer of Manasseh*
• Proverbs
• Ecclesiastes
• Song of Solomon
• Job
• Wisdom of Solomon* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Wisdom of the Son of Sirach*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Esther
• Judith* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Tobit*(CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Hosea
• Amos
• Micah
• Joel
• Obadiah
• Jonah
• Nahum
• Habakkuk
• Zephaniah
• Haggai
• Zechariah
• Malachi
• Isaiah
• Jeremiah
• Baruch* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• Lamentations of Jeremiah
• Epistles of Jeremiah*
• Ezekiel
• Daniel
• Song of the Three Children*
• Susanna*
• Bel and the Dragon*
• I Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• II Maccabees* (CATHOLIC BIBLES)
• III Maccabees*

Before we get into the meat of your post....of which I promise to take apart piece by piece.... I just want to be clear: You accept the 500 year tradition of 66 books and disregard the almost 1,7000 year Church teaching/acceptance of 73 books?

You put tradition of your men over the teaching of The Church?

Curious Mary

 

[Enoch111]

You accept the 500 year tradition of 66 books and disregard the almost 1,700 year Church teaching/acceptance of 73 books?

Actually, I accept the 3,500 tradition of the Hebrew Bible, which more than double 1,700!

 

[mjrhealth]

YES

You really believe that??

 

[Marymog]

By counting....but of course I see you are catholic so there would be more.

Got it......you either don’t know OR you consider yourself a comedian???

We have historical documents that tell us which books 2nd Century Christians considered “inspired scripture”.

Do you think that list is higher or lower than the current “Catholic” bible?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

You really believe that??

Yes, it is considered scripture. Do you have evidence it wasn't inspired by God?

waiting for the evidence.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

That's not rocket science either. They had access to the printed Hebrew Bible and noted that the Tanakh had only 24 books, and NOT ONE OF THE APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

Which Jewish sect approved those 24 books? The reason I ask is because the Sadducees only believed in the first 5 books of the Bible written by Moses (the Pentateuch), while the Pharisees believed in 34 other books of the Old Testament as well. However, there were other Jews around from the Diaspora who believed that another 7 books were also divinely inspired. What about the Alexandrian Jews? The Samaritans and Sadducees accepted the law but rejected the prophets and writing. The Pharisees accepted all three. Some smaller groups of Jews had different lists. Some Jews used the Greek version called the Septuagint.....the list that the Catholic Church uses. Most of the New Testament writers quote most often from the Septuagint in the NT, therefore indicating that they used and accepted it.

Since different sects of Jews had different books in their "scripture" when did and where is your historical evidence that the approval of the 24 books occured and all the Jews agreed to those 24?

Patient and historical Mary

 

[Enoch111]

Which Jewish sect approved those 24 books?

Not a Jewish sect, but God Himself -- the Lord Jesus Christ.