Heaven

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marcus.

A "column" of air loses one quarter of its pressure at 7250 feet. (About a mile and a half)
A "column" of air loses half it's pressure at 18,000 feet. (A little more than 3 miles)
A "column" of air loses three quarters of its pressure at 34,000 feet. (A little more than 5 miles)

People require about 60% of sea level pressure to breath normally, so we use 14,000 for an emergency activation of those portable oxygen generators above your airplane seats in the event of the loss of cabin pressurization.
Without pressurization, a "safe" altitude for flight is 10,000 - which isn't even two miles.

We're talking about 1500 miles here Retro and you're already in trouble in the first 3 miles...

So let's split up your pyramid every 3 miles and say that people will acclimate because God can make that happen and you have 500 floors of colored glass stones.

Now do you want to try and calculate the light intensity that would be required to light the bottom floor to normal room levels?

Remember that light spreads out at an inverse square of its source, so to get a "normal" illumination at 1500 miles through your earth-bound model, we're talking about powers which exponentially rise to intolerable levels much closer to Jesus in your multi-floored pyramid so at to make life hellish to say the least for the top two-thirds of it. How's that working out for you?

And we haven't even gotten into the physics of rotation yet so as to account for the earth's movement and subsequent gravity.

Retro: the more you try to fashion an earth-bound model, the harder it gets to swallow.

It's a new earth - the old one, this one is done away with! New earth; new heavens; new creation: new rules. God makes the rules.

Rev 20:11 The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Brother, you need to understand that the Scriptures will be fulfilled exactly as stated by the Ruach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) through our brother, Yochanan (John). Not primarily in English, but in the Greek (and when we can find the evidence, the Hebrew before the Greek).

Thank you for the information about the height of the columns of air; however, you’re neglecting a few facts:

First, we are told that the “kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.” (Rev. 21:24)

Revelation 21:24-26
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
KJV

Thus, the first level will be at normal atmospheric pressure, the gates will be open (always remaining open), and the visiting royalty shall bring their tribute into it - a tribute of “glory and honour.” That word “glory” is the Greek word “doxan,” the accusative case of “doxa,” and refers to the same kind of “glory" as in verse 23. The word “honor” (British spelling “honour”) is the Greek word “timeen,” the accusative case of “timee,” referring to their “valuables.” Thus, they apparently will bring their own lights and valuables into the city.

Second, remember that we who rise above to the other levels of the city will be in our glorified bodies. These will be “BLASTING” bodies instead of mere “BREATHING” bodies. Remember Paul’s words in 1 Cor. 15:

1 Corinthians 15:39-54
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies (bodies from above-sky), and bodies terrestrial (bodies from above-ground): but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body (a breathing body); it is raised a spiritual body (a blasting body). There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (living breather); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (life-giving blaster).
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy (soil-like): the second man is the Lord from heaven (the sky).
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (above-the-sky), such are they also that are heavenly (above-the-sky).
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (above-the-sky).
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

The various columns of atmosphere at its various levels are primarily for the PLANT LIFE! Just the same, “someone" is neglecting the fact that Yeshua` will be shining brighter than the noon-day sun! Tell me how many of those levels His glory can burn through? “Hellish?” Bite your tongue! NONSENSE! RUBBISH!

Now, let’s look at the two verses you quote:

Revelation 20:11
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
KJV

Apokalupsis 20:11
11 Kai eidon thronon megan leukon kai ton katheemenon ep’ auton, ou apo tou prosoopon efugen hee gee kai ho ouranos, kai topos ouch eurethee autois.
Greek New Testament (UBS)

11 Kai = 11 And/Also
eidon = I-saw
thronon = a-throne
megan = great/large/huge
leukon = white
kai = and
ton = the
katheemenon = One-seated
ep’ (epi) = upon
auton, = it,
ou = not
apo = away-from
tou = the
prosoopon = face
efugen = ran-away
hee = the
gee = earth/ground
kai = and/also
ho = the
ouranos, = sky,
kai = and
topos = a-place
ouch = not
eurethee = was-found
autois. = for-them.

Now, you may have to convince yourself, but this passage in Revelation can be harmonized with 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 and with 2 Peter 3:3-13 as passages that also speak of the same time periods and events.

Let’s focus on a section of that passage in 2 Peter:

2 Peter 3:7-13
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Now, let’s zoom in on vss. 10-12 in the Greek:

Petrou B 3:10-12
10 Eexei de heemera kuriou hoos kleptees, en hee hoi ouranoi hroizeedon pareleusontai, stoicheia de kausoumena lutheesetai, kai gee kai ta en autee ergaeuretheesetai.
11 Toutoon houtoos pantoon luomenoon potapous dei huparchein [humas] en hagiais anstrofais kai eusebeiais,
12 prosdokoontas kai apeudontas teen parousian tees tou Theou heemeras, di’ heen ouranoi puroumenoi lutheesontai kai stoicheiakausoumena teeketai.
Greek New Testament (UBS)

10 Eexei = 10 Will-come
de = but
heemera = a-day
kuriou = of-Lord
hoos = like
kleptees, = a-thief,
en = in
hee = the-which
hoi = the
ouranoi = skies
hroizeedon = whirringly/whizzingly/with-a-crash
pareleusontai, = shall-approach/shall-come-near/shall-come-aside/shall-go-by/shall-go-away
stoicheia = elements/orderly-parts
de = but
kausoumena = being-set-on-fire
lutheesetai, = shall-loosen/shall-break-up/shall-melt
kai = and/also
gee = earth/ground
kai = and
ta = all-things
en = in
autee = it
erga = works/accomplishments
katakaeesetai. = shall-be-burned-down-(to-the-ground).
11 Toutoon = 11 These-things
houtoos = then
pantoon = all
luomenoon = shall-be-loosened/shall-be-broken-up/shall-be-melted
potapous = of-what-possible-sort
dei = should/it-is-necessary
huparchein = to-begin-under/to-exist
[humas] = [ye/you (plural)]
en = in
hagiais = holy
anstrofais = behavior
kai = and/also
eusebeiais, = godliness,
12 prosdokoontas = 12 watching-toward/anticipating
kai = and/also
speudontas = urging/speeding-on
teen = the
parousian = revealing/coming
tees = of-the
tou = of-the
Theou = God
heemeras, = day,
di’ (dia) = through
heen = which
ouranoi = skies
puroumenoi = being-ignited/glowing
lutheesontai = shall-be-loosened/shall-be-dissolved
kai = and/also
stoicheia = elements/orderly-parts
kausoumena = being-set-on-fire
teeketai;= shall-melt?

This IS talking about a literal burning/melting/igniting the skies and the ground. HOWEVER, it does NOT say that the entire earth will be destroyed!

They are not destroyed; they rush past with a great noise! There’s "no place for them" because they just keep going! Remember the movie Aliens? I remember that the slogan for the movie was “In space, no one can hear you scream!” The fact that there is a "great noise” suggests that we are still within the earth’s atmosphere to be able to hear the concussion!

Now, Revelation 21:1 says this in the Greek:

Apokalupsis 21:1
1 Kai eidon ouranon kainon kai geen kaineen. Ho gar prootos ouranos kai hee prootee gee apeelthan kai hee thalassa ouk estin eti.
Greek New Testament (UBS)

1 Kai = 1 And/Also
eidon = I-saw
ouranon = a-sky
kainon = new
kai = and/also
geen = an-earth/ground
kaineen. = new.
Ho = The
gar = for
prootos = first
ouranos = sky
kai = and/also
hee = the
prootee = first
gee = earth/ground
apeelthan = had-gone-off/had-departed/had-gone-aside/had-gone-apart/had-gone-behind/had-followed
kai = and/also
hee = the
thalassa = sea
ouk = not
estin = is
eti. = yet/still.

This is what I mean by being careful of the wording in ANY English translation! ALWAYS check the translation against the original work! Somehow, you’ve gotten the wrong message about what you’re reading. These passages are NOT saying that the whole earth is destroyed, let alone the whole universe!

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Oh for crying out loud Retro.

It's like nothing you can imagine and your imagination, on display above, is pitiful. It has more problems than Obamacare.

The first earth has passed away John said. You give the answer in the Greek and then spin it to suit yourself.

God has a pattern already - The Most Holy Place, and it's a cube.

Ex 26:31-35 A curtain was to divide the tabernacle into two rooms, the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place, with the former twice as large as the latter. The Most Holy Place formed a perfect cube, 15 feet by 15 feet by 15 feet. Enclosed with linen curtains embroidered with cherubim and containing only the ark of the Testimony, it represented God’s throne room (see note on v. 1 ). The Holy Place represented his royal guest chamber where his people symbolically came before him in the bread of the Presence (see note on 25:30 ), the light from the lampstand (see note on 25:37 ) and the incense from the altar of incense (see note on 30:1 ).

Ex 27:12-13 west end ... east end. The courtyard is described as having two equal parts. The Most Holy Place probably occupied the central position in the western half, the altar of burnt offering the central position in the eastern half.

1Ki 6:2 temple that King Solomon built. The temple was patterned after the tabernacle (and, in general, other temples of the time) and was divided into three major areas: the Most Holy Place, the Holy Place and the outer courtyard. The Most Holy Place in the temple was cubical, as it probably was in the tabernacle. The dimensions of the temple in most instances seem to be double those of the tabernacle (see Ex 26:15-30 ; 36:20-34 ).
6:1-38 See diagram, Solomon’s Temple .

1Ki 6:23 cherubim. See note on Ex 25:18 . They were to stand on either side of the ark ( 8:6-7 ; 2Ch 3:10-13 ). Two additional cherubim stood on the ark — one on each end of its atonement cover ( Ex 25:17-22 ). ten cubits high. The Most Holy Place, where the cherubim stood, was 20 cubits high ( v. 16 ).

2Ch 3:1 Then Solomon began to build the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to his father David. It was on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite, the place provided by David.

2Ch 3:1 Mount Moriah. The only passage in the OT where Mount Zion is identified with Mount Moriah, the place where Abraham was commanded to offer Isaac ( Ge 22:2 , 14 ). place provided by David. See 1Ch 21:18-22:1 .

2Ch 3:4 twenty cubits long and twenty cubits wide. It was also 20 cubits high ( 1Ki 6:20 ), making the dimensions of the Most Holy Place a perfect cube, as probably also in the tabernacle. In the new Jerusalem there is no temple ( Rev 21:22 ); rather, the whole city is in the shape of a cube ( Rev 21:16 ), for the whole city becomes “the Most Holy Place.”

Ezra 6:15 temple was completed. On Mar. 12, 516 b.c. , almost 70 years after its destruction. The renewed work on the temple had begun on Sept. 21, 520 ( Hag 1:15 ), and sustained effort had continued for almost three and a half years. According to Hag 2:3 , the older members who could remember the splendor of Solomon’s temple were disappointed when they saw the smaller size of Zerubbabel’s temple (cf. Ezr 3:12 ). Yet in the long run the second temple, though not as grand as the first, enjoyed a much longer life. The general plan of the second temple was similar to that of Solomon’s, but the Most Holy Place was left empty because the ark of the covenant had been lost through the Babylonian conquest. According to Josephus, on the Day of Atonement the high priest placed his censer on the slab of stone that marked the former location of the ark. The Holy Place was furnished with a table for the bread of the Presence, the incense altar, and one lampstand (in the Apocrypha cf. 1 Maccabees 1:21-22 ; 4:49-51 ) instead of Solomon’s ten ( 1Ki 7:49 ).

Ps 28:2 lift up my hands. In worship and prayer (see 63:4 ; 134:2 ; 141:2 ). Most Holy Place. The inner sanctuary of the temple (see 1Ki 6:5 ), where the ark of the covenant stood (see 1Ki 8:6-8 ); it was God’s throne room on earth.

Mt 27:51a curtain. The curtain that separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place. The tearing of the curtain signified Christ’s making it possible for believers to go directly into God’s presence (see Mk 15:38 ; Lk 23:45 ; Heb 9:1-14 ; 10:14-22 and notes ).

Heb 8:2 true tabernacle. In contrast to the tabernacle erected by Moses, which was an imperfect and impermanent copy of the heavenly one set up by the Lord, not by man. The heavenly sanctuary built by God corresponds to the Most Holy Place, the innermost sanctuary in Moses’ tabernacle, into which the high priest briefly entered with the blood of atonement once a year (see Lev 16:13-15 , 34). In the heavenly sanctuary, however, our great high priest dwells eternally as our intercessor (7:25).

Heb 10:20 the curtain, that is, his body. Having sacrificed himself in his body on the cross, Jesus our high priest entered the Most Holy Place (see 6:19 and note ; cf. 9:11 and note ), and he made sinners “perfect” in holiness (see v. 14 and note ) so that they too may enter through the curtain — his sacrificed and resurrected body being for us the “new and living way” (cf. Mt 27:51 ; Mk 15:38 and notes ).

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marcus.

Just one verse:

Revelation 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV

You’re wrong to assume that the city is the Temple.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And you're wrong about what you assume that I assume. And I know that to be a factual truth since I know what I think.

How lovely to have that personal relationship with God that we would "live" in the Most Holy Place. This model for what will be, given to us in the past, allows us to enjoy something that only the Chief Priest could do once a year. The model of the Temple's Most Holy Place being a template for the New Jerusalem does not replace the Temple or say that it is the Temple.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marcus.

And, you STILL have no Scriptural proof that “the Temple’s Most Holy Place [is] a template for the New Jerusalem."

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Nor do you have Scriptural proof that it's a pyramid.

While John doesn't call it a cube, I am in good company in taking the three equal measures of height, length, and width and comparing them to the Most Holy Place.

You, on the other hand, being the consummate expert on just about everything, once again hold everyone else wrong and yourself right.

 

[Trekson]

Just wondering, if we're all immortal, why would we need air? If those who bring their "gifts into it" are mortal men, wouldn't only the very lowest part of the city need air?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson.

Just wondering, if we're all immortal, why would we need air? If those who bring their "gifts into it" are mortal men, wouldn't only the very lowest part of the city need air?

Plant life needs air; in fact, in the light, it PRODUCES oxygen! The Tree of Life is a real species of tree that was present in Gan-`Eden, just as real as the orange tree or the apple tree or the plum tree or any of the other trees God created. It was edible because Adam and Chavah (Eve) could have eaten its fruit and had to be prevented from eating it after they sinned! (Gen. 3:22-24) With the curse finally solved in the time when the New Earth is formed, the Tree of Life will be available to human beings to eat freely.

The Tree of Life will be in the median of the street of the city on either side of the river of the water of life. (Rev. 22:2) It’s an assumption, of course, but one would assume that the street of the city goes throughout the city since the river starts from the throne of God and of the Lamb. (Rev. 22:1)
Revelation 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJV

You may be right about us not needing to breathe. One might also remember (or learn for the first time) just how Paul worded the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:39-49
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies (Greek: soomata epourania = bodies of-above-the-sky), and bodies terrestrial (Greek: soomata epigeia = bodies of-above-the-earth/ground): but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = a breathing body); it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = a wind-blasting body). There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: psucheen zoosan = Hebrew: nefesh chayaah = a-breathing-creature living); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma zoo-opoioun = a-life-giving wind/breath).
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth (Greek: ek gees = out-from earth), earthy (Greek: choikos = made-of-dust): the second man is [the Lord] from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = out-from sky).
48 As is the earthy (Greek: ho choikos = the [one]-made-of-dust), such are they also that are earthy (Greek: hoi choikoi = the [ones]-made-of-dust): and as is the heavenly (Greek: ho epouranios = the [one]-of-above-the-sky), such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: hoi epouranioi = the [ones]-of-above).
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: eforesamen teen eikona tou choikou = we-carried the image/icon of-the [one]-made-of-dust), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: foresomen teen eikona tou epouraniou = we-shall-carry the image/icon of-the [one]-of-above-the-sky).
KJV

So, maybe we don’t “need” to breathe, but we will have a different “need" for the atmosphere. What that may be exactly is unclear.

 

[ezekiel]

April 4 will be the thrid alignment with Uranus rather lunar eclipse, the last for this planet for the star from the way of Alpha Centauri its wings will they touch each other and will preform a gravity assist to pull away Uranus and Neptune is in the sites.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, ezekiel.

Don’t let haSatan influence you into an attempt to “muddy the water!” What does ANY of that have to do with the topic, let alone what I just said? Besides, it sounds like “gobbledegook” to me, a hodge-podge of things to say that mean nothing!

 

[ATP]

Paul’s teaching in… 2Co 5:6, 8 “Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: ... 8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”

…is not a new concept. The author of Ecclesiastes shared the same viewpoint. Ec. 12:7 “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”

Paul also refers to it in: Phil. 1:21-23 “For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this [is] the fruit of my labor: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:”

So you believe our "breath" is walking around in the third heaven? I don't think that's biblical. Actually, 2 Cor 5:8 is about immortality at the first resurrection.

 

[ezekiel]

Retrobyter: Do you think satan has put these things upon myself. Now then tell, if you shall know the tree of life in the mist of the garden and while that is being understood what about the other tree tell us if you understand these thing because myself has be gave this understanding.

John 6:57
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Now tell us about the other tree. Christ is the tree of life

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, ezekiel.

Retrobyter: Do you think satan has put these things upon myself. Now then tell, if you shall know the tree of life in the mist of the garden and while that is being understood what about the other tree tell us if you understand these thing because myself has be gave this understanding.

John 6:57
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Now tell us about the other tree. Christ is the tree of life

The Christ is NOT the tree of life. "IN Him was life and the life was the light of men!” (John 1:3) You can’t just take liberties with the Scriptures and twist them to mean whatever sounds good to you! This is not an analogy with no source in reality. The tree was (and is) a REAL SPECIES OF TREE! Y’know, with roots and branches and leaves and fruit?

And, the tree of life was NOT in the “mist of the garden”; it was in the MIDST of the garden! That means it was in the MIDDLE of the garden!

The “other tree,” I assume you mean, is "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." It was THAT tree that Adam and Chavah were given strict orders not to eat its fruit. There was nothing special about the tree; GOD simply told them not to eat from it! HE made it special ... “holy.” Because they disobeyed His orders and ate from it anyway, they learned the difference between good and evil: God is good, and they were now evil. It’s just an ironic truth about the tree!

As far as John 6:57 is concerned, Yeshua` (Jesus) was likening Himself to the MAN-NA! (“Man,” pronounced “mawn,” means “what” in Hebrew; “na” means “now.” When it appeared upon the ground that first day shortly after they entered the wilderness on their way to the Promised Land, that was their question, “What now?” "What is this?” and that “name” STUCK!

There’s a chocolate eclair pie that my aunt introduced to us when I was young that my younger cousin “named”: When asked what it was, he said, “Mmm! It’s good!” And, they called it that from that moment on! When they were asked what dessert they would like they’d say, “Let’s have some 'Mmm! It’s good’!” And, my aunt knew what to make!

Thus, in the same way, the bread from the sky was named “What now?” or more simply “What?” “Manna?” or “Man?” Yeshua` was saying that He was the TRUE “bread from the sky!” The “tree of life” was not even mentioned in that context!

By the way, haSatan HAS influenced you to use some trivia about astrology as though it was some mysterious, important information about ... SOMETHING ... who knows what ... in an attempt to derail this thread. "RESIST the devil and he will flee from you” is good advice when you feel the urge to do so.

 

[ezekiel]

Retrobyter: So I ask my Father in heaven thru Christ how can fire mingled with blood be cast on Earth, just one question and my life has not been the same. Years ago I was baptist but my doctrine changed and now just try to understand every word of God, but you just can't understand that til you understand this. So God shows me the new Earth but it wasn't one but two Earths orbiting our Sun what a sight. So I search and found in the book of Ezekiel what I seen and this is where my God has lead me. Note that it is said that signs will be in the heaven. So if I look for my God and try to follow and understand his words and you say that its satan. If you say astrology is the devil and thats what these words say to you then let it be but I don't know the first think about astrology lucky to spell it. Know this the truth has been said for Christ is in the beginning and the end of the bible he is the alpha and the omega his Kingdom in the New Earth and forever blessed be his name.

 

[StanJ]

Shalom, Marcus.

And, you STILL have no Scriptural proof that “the Temple’s Most Holy Place [is] a template for the New Jerusalem."

The temple ceased to exist in 70AD...there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.

Just wondering, if we're all immortal, why would we need air? If those who bring their "gifts into it" are mortal men, wouldn't only the very lowest part of the city need air?

Well as the NEW Jerusalem is in the NEW Earth, I'm not sure where you get the idea we will need air, as we are made incorruptible at Jesus' return. In ant event I don't see the relevancy.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, ezekiel.

Retrobyter: So I ask my Father in heaven thru Christ how can fire mingled with blood be cast on Earth, just one question and my life has not been the same. Years ago I was baptist but my doctrine changed and now just try to understand every word of God, but you just can't understand that til you understand this. So God shows me the new Earth but it wasn't one but two Earths orbiting our Sun what a sight. So I search and found in the book of Ezekiel what I seen and this is where my God has lead me. Note that it is said that signs will be in the heaven. So if I look for my God and try to follow and understand his words and you say that its satan. If you say astrology is the devil and thats what these words say to you then let it be but I don't know the first think about astrology lucky to spell it. Know this the truth has been said for Christ is in the beginning and the end of the bible he is the alpha and the omega his Kingdom in the New Earth and forever blessed be his name.

And so, the derailment continues.

No, there will be only ONE New Earth, and it will be fashioned out of the remains of this earth, just as the second earth (the one in which we are currently living) was fashioned out of the remains of the first earth before the Flood. (2 Peter 3:3-13)

His Kingdom will begin shortly after He has returned to Israel and rescued His people. Thus, it begins during the Millennium and will continue forever when the current earth is destroyed and the New Earth is created after the Millennium. (Revelation 20:1-15; 21:1-2)

If the book of Ezekiel says otherwise, then prove it: “book, CHAPTER, AND VERSE!” If you cannot prove it, then remain silent, please.

_____

Shalom, StanJ.

The temple ceased to exist in 70AD...there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.

Well as the NEW Jerusalem is in the NEW Earth, I'm not sure where you get the idea we will need air, as we are made incorruptible at Jesus' return. In ant event I don't see the relevancy.

Actually, the wording that Yochanan (John) gives us is that the New Jerusalem shall DESCEND to the New Earth.

Second, it is a non-sequitur that our bodies, being made incorruptible, shall thus not need air. The one does not determine the other.

The relevancy is simply this: The New Jerusalem and the New Earth shall be PHYSICAL things, not “spiritual.” (As though that word means “nonphysical,” which it does NOT!) So, the following verses are important to this discussion:

Revelation 21:9-27; 22:1-5
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates;
on the north three gates;
on the south three gates; and
on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.
The first foundation was jasper;
the second, sapphire;
the third, a chalcedony;
the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx;
the sixth, sardius;
the seventh, chrysolite;
the eighth, beryl;
the ninth, a topaz;
the tenth, a chrysoprasus;
the eleventh, a jacinth;
the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

As a physical city, we can then determine what the shape of this city would be based upon where the throne of God and of the Lamb would be, since it is pivotal to the structure of this city.

In a cube, the logical position of the throne of God would be at its center. HOWEVER, then one must figure out how the river of the water of life flows to all the various parts of the city. Even if it was in orbit around the New Earth (which it won’t be), Earth’s gravity would come into play on the flow of water.

See, in an orbit, the object orbiting - like the Moon - is constantly falling toward the Earth, although its speed is such that it keeps missing the earth! Thus, the water within the New Jerusalem would still be drawn to the Earth below. So, how does the water get to the TOP of a cubical city, if its source is in the center of the cube?

However, in a stationary, pyramidal city, FOUNDED upon the earth with its foundations, the flow of water would simply flow downward from the throne of God and of the Lamb at the PINNACLE of the city - in its CAPSTONE, the “HEAD STONE OF THE ANGLE!" Just as the street would assumably go from the throne down throughout the city and to the 12 gates of the city, so too shall the river flow down the middle of the street from its source, the throne of God and of the Lamb, throughout the city and arrive at the 12 gates of the city. I also believe that this means that the river of the water of life shall flow outward from the gates throughout the New Earth. (See my avatar above.)

Now, we are also told that the tree of life (the species is singular, not the number of actual plants) shall grow on either side of that river, also within the median of the street. This constitutes a PARK everywhere within the New Jerusalem, wherever the street goes! The Hebrew word for “park,” especially a "park of trees," is “pardeec,” from which comes the Greek word “paradeisos,” from which comes the English word “paradise."

Whether we need air to breathe, PLANTS DO NEED AIR TO BREATHE! Therefore, even if we don’t need an atmosphere, the plantings of the tree of life (and whatever other trees might exist there) DO!

However, as I was also explaining from 1 Corinthians 15, I believe that even if we won’t need an atmosphere in the same way as we do now, we SHALL need an atmosphere for a different reason; although we won’t need air to “breathe” (presumably), we shall need air to “blow” or “blast!” (Which is what the word “spiritual” really means.)

Understand now?

 

[StanJ]

Shalom, StanJ.
Actually, the wording that Yochanan (John) gives us is that the New Jerusalem shall DESCEND to the New Earth.
Second, it is a non-sequitur that our bodies, being made incorruptible, shall thus not need air. The one does not determine the other.

The relevancy is simply this: The New Jerusalem and the New Earth shall be PHYSICAL things, not “spiritual.” (As though that word means “nonphysical,” which it does NOT!) So, the following verses are important to this discussion:

Understand now?

That's correct, but not what I addressed. I have no doubt based on scripture, that the only thing the new earth will not have are the seas. Air is really not as issue. Consider this however, if we are made incorruptible, does that mean immortal? If you say yes then why does God bring back the tree of life?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, StanJ.

That's correct, but not what I addressed. I have no doubt based on scripture, that the only thing the new earth will not have are the seas. Air is really not as issue. Consider this however, if we are made incorruptible, does that mean immortal? If you say yes then why does God bring back the tree of life?

Well, “incorruptible” and “immortal” are two different things: “Incorruptibility” (Greek: “aftharsian”) means that our bodies won’t “decay,” and “immortality” (Greek: “athanasian”) means that our bodies won’t “die.” On the other hand, Paul used both words in 1 Cor. 15:53-54; therefore, our bodies will be BOTH “incorruptible” and “immortal."

Look carefully at the above passage from Rev. 21-22. Notice verses 21:24-27:

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it (the city) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Now, the problem in our understanding of these verses is what I’ve been saying about “salvation” versus “justification by God.” Just because there are nations "which are saved” does NOT mean that they are nations which have been justified by God! The two concepts are NOT synonymous! There will be “rescued” or “saved” nations that consist of human beings who have NOT undergone the transformation ... YET ... that we shall have experienced. They shall still be normal humans with bodies that can still die and decay. That’s why we read later ...

Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without (“outside”) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

These nations shall be tributary nations to God’s Kingdom, handed over to the Father by the Son (1 Cor. 15:24-28). Also, consider the earlier words in Isaiah:

Isaiah 65:1-66:24
65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
8 Thus saith the LORD As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.
11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
66:1 Thus saith the LORD The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD, but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
KJV

Contrary to popular opinion, these verses ARE about the “new skies and the new earth!” Even if they start in the Millennium, they will CONTINUE through the Fire to the time when the MOUNTAIN New Jerusalem descends, after His Champion, Yeshua`, has subdued all of His enemies.

 

[ezekiel]

Retrobyter:
Ezekiel 10 verse 9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone.

A tree is just a tree when looking out of eye's of flesh no matter how many different books and translations we search we still see a tree. But the Spirit of the word is not the same.

Two planets in this section of heaven and two stars, one to replace earth and one to replace the other thats comming. Two new ones Christ will bring them here.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Its ok Retrobyter your not the first that said I had a devil, they also said that my master also had a devil when he said such things.

John 10
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Retrobyter this year you will see the builder in the heavens moreover a news man will be standing by by the beach and say we are not alone in the universe.

I will now be quiet.

 

[StanJ]

Shabbat shalom, StanJ.


Well, “incorruptible” and “immortal” are two different things: “Incorruptibility” (Greek: “aftharsian”) means that our bodies won’t “decay,” and “immortality” (Greek: “athanasian”) means that our bodies won’t “die.” On the other hand, Paul used both words in 1 Cor. 15:53-54; therefore, our bodies will be BOTH “incorruptible” and “immortal."

Look carefully at the above passage from Rev. 21-22. Notice verses 21:24-27:

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it (the city) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Now, the problem in our understanding of these verses is what I’ve been saying about “salvation” versus “justification by God.” Just because there are nations "which are saved” does NOT mean that they are nations which have been justified by God! The two concepts are NOT synonymous! There will be “rescued” or “saved” nations that consist of human beings who have NOT undergone the transformation ... YET ... that we shall have experienced. They shall still be normal humans with bodies that can still die and decay. That’s why we read later ...

Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without (“outside”) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

These nations shall be tributary nations to God’s Kingdom, handed over to the Father by the Son (1 Cor. 15:24-28). Also, consider the earlier words in Isaiah:

Isaiah 65:1-66:24
65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
8 Thus saith the LORD As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.
11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
66:1 Thus saith the LORD The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD, but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
KJV

Contrary to popular opinion, these verses ARE about the “new skies and the new earth!” Even if they start in the Millennium, they will CONTINUE through the Fire to the time when the MOUNTAIN New Jerusalem descends, after His Champion, Yeshua`, has subdued all of His enemies.

Sorry but this is nothing but an onerous non-answer which I won't deal with. Feel free to actually address and respond to the subject of my post, or not.