Hell is Forever - Punishment, Torment or Torture - You Would Not Cease to Exist

[Phoneman777]

Hey, keep your place. Don't dictate to me what God has or has not done for me.

I don't have to dictate to anyone what the Bible says. They can read it for themselves. I've shown you Genesis 2:7 which says God imparts the BREATH OF LIFE into the Body to produce a living soul. The burden is upon YOU to find a verse which says God imparts a living Soul into the body. You will search in vain to find such a verse, and it is also a vain search to find anything that indicates the soul is immortal - "immortal" meaning "not subject to death".

 

[Phoneman777]

Pay attention. I am not disagreeing with Scripture.
I AM DISAGREEING with YOU making claims FOR ME, that I DO NOT BELIEVE!!



Well IF I HAD SAID THAT....YOU COULD HAVE QUOTED ME SAYING THAT....right?



So....WHY are YOU making that CLAIM, instead of QUOTING "ME" saying that?



SEE THE PROBLEM?

I speak for myself. You change my words to your words, then CLAIM that "I was saying what YOU SAID".....then you ARGUE against WHAT YOU SAID.



No, you don't. You make up things....that I never said.....





See? Here you make an accusaition against me....why? You don't know me. You don't know what even I say, since you speak for me in your own words. You have NO IDEA, How often, How much, I have read and studied scriptures, Or where I get my Understanding of Scriptures.....since YOU HAVE decided to claim, FOR ME, I supposedly get my understanding from Bible Scholars, whom I have never mentioned or know of.



I don't Presume, to LIMIT, what the Lord gives a man...and HOW He gives it.



Disagree. Created Body, formed from dust, and Gods Breath of Life BLOWN
"INTO" the created BODY, equals A Created BODY, "MADE" alive,
"WITH" "living senses" and "Gods breath of Life" that GOD IMPARTS "INTO" the created Body. The created MAN, is then both, BODY "AND" Living soul.



ALL Bodies ARE SeNTENCeD TO DIE.
ALL bodies MUST become ALIVE, BEFORE they can DIE.

God BRINGS a created body INTO A LIVING STATE, via HIS BREATH.

The LIVING STATE "OF" a body IS IT"S BLOOD.

Newsflash...when the BODY is created....it IS FORMED with flesh, a heart, a brain, organs, nerves, kidneys, muscles, bones, etc. and BLOOD..... It is formed but can DO NOTHING, because it is NOT ALIVE.....UNTIL, God blows His breath of Life INTO THE BODY....

And that BODY ... has ears, skin, a mouth, etc., but it can NOT hear, feel, speak, etc....
UNTIL God "GIVES" the BODY the ability to hear, feel, speak, etc..... and those things ARE "GIVEN INTO THE BODY" WHEN GOD GIVES the BODY "a SOUL".

It is MAN, the bodily Form, that BECOMES...
ALIVE, and HAS a LIVING SOUL....which is now the LIVING "MAN" is both an ALIVE BODY (of his own BLOOD LIFE) And an ALIVE SOUL (of the LIFE of Gods Breath).

Bodies are SENTENCED to DIE....they ALL MUST DIE.

Where does Scripture say.....ALL SOULS are
SENTENCED TO DIE?

Yes, ONLY GOD IS Absolute Life, without beginning or ending.

IF you Understood Gods Word....IT IS ALL ABOUT a MAN BECOMING....into a state of ABSOLUTE forward, FOREVER LIVING.

MAN, has 3 "types" of LIFE...
His (dust) body, from the earth and Blood Life.
His (senses) soul, from God and Gods Breath Life.
His (natural truth in his heart) spirit, ie his true thoughts.

The flesh body is BORN in corruption.
The flesh body, Corrupts its own soul.
The body's spirit, keeps or reveals it's truth.

A corrupt body, soul, spirit of man....IS separated from God....BECAUSE IT IS BORN CORRUPT....

And BIG PICTURE "OF" Scripture is for man; the whole of man (body, soul, & spirit) TO BECOME "MADE" WHOLE.

What IS "WHOLE" ? How is "WHOLE" accomplished?

WHOLE IS; the Lord "CHANGING" the man...
WITH HIS Word, Forgiveness, Power, Seed...
To the whole of a man's...
Body....Soul...Spirit.

Body dead, sanctified and TO BE raised up in Forever Living Glory.
Soul restored, and saved and REMAINS forever with Gods Breath of Life.
Spirit reborn with Gods Seed to forever life.

Not sure where you stand, since so far all I have seen is you speak for me, then disagree with it.

God Bless,
Taken

My mistake. I thought you disagreed with me when I said that Genesis 2:7 teaches that the Living Soul comes into existence as consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and ceases to exist when God gathers His Breath of Life back to Himself from the Body at the moment of death of the Living Soul.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is no consciousness in death. We die and that's that until the "Second Life" (which is necessary if there is to exist the Second Death) - the dead righteous are raised to a Second Life nevermore to die, while the wicked are raised to a Second Life in the resurrection of damnation where they are judged, cast into the Lake of Fire, suffer each one according to their sins, and finally die the Second Death in which they pass out of existence for all eternity - permanent, perpetual, eternal death - a death from which there will be no resurrection.

 

[Alert]

Those in eternal fire will be conscious and aware of every moment of eternity - "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." There's no reason for such a worm and eternal fire, unless those in hell are conscious and experiencing punishment, torment or torture.

 

[Episkopos]

Those in eternal fire will be conscious and aware of every moment of eternity - "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." There's no reason for such a worm and eternal fire, unless those in hell are conscious and experiencing punishment, torment or torture.

That is your own reasoning at word. God is not cruel. He only does what is loving and righteous. The wicked will endure a second death. That is all.

 

[Vexatious]

The Bible teaches repent or perish. How does anyone conclude from "perish" that God will torture slaves (to sin) for eternity for their lack of God-given faith? Is it because Jesus made a figurative statement about the undying fires of the city's garbage dump?

 

[Taken]

I don't have to dictate to anyone what the Bible says. They can read it for themselves. I've shown you Genesis 2:7 which says God imparts the BREATH OF LIFE into the Body

to produce a living soul.

"Produce" ? Where are Gods Works called "produce" ?

The burden is upon YOU to find a verse which says God imparts a living Soul into the body. You will search in vain to find such a verse, and it is also a vain search to find anything that indicates the soul is immortal - "immortal" meaning "not subject to death".

I already Understand the body and soul (and spirit) are NOT the same things....they are PARTS of "AN" individual man, that receive each of THOSE "parts" at different times, in different ways.

ONE MAN, Three different LIFE forms, Three different times the LIFE becomes a part of the ONE MAN, Three different WAYS, each LIFE FORM becomes WITH or WITHOUT God FOREVER.

Bodily forms, come from Dust, via Gods Hand. Life form....BLOOD

Living souls, come from God, via Gods Breath. Life form....Gods Breath

Born Again spirits, come from God, via Gods Seed. Life form....Gods Spirit

ALL Bodies are Sentenced TO DEATH.

All Living souls ARE NOT SENTENCED TO DEATH.

NO BORN AGAIN spirits ARE SENTENCED TO
DEATH.

You want to teach the Body and Soul ARE the same thing.....that is an ERROR.

The are NOT the same thing....they are a part of ONE MAN.

You want PROOF a SOUL is IMPARTED?

Scripture is not a written in "cheat sheet" FACT FORM style.

The Body, Soul, Spirit "OF" One man are separate THINGS.

Gen 2:7 [a]Dust formed, called man
Gen 2:7 Living Soul "INTO" the formed man.

Rocket Science...."A MAN IS" A FORM "AND" LIVING SOUL.

Elementary Understanding....
The FORM and LIVING SOUL, came from TWO different places, at TWO different Times!

An individuals Direction....
Keep reading and Learn what becomes of ...
The Body.
The Soul.
The Spirit.

Dead body buried...Living soul departs dead body.....Gen 35:18

Living Soul departs a living body, body becomes dead. Living Soul returns to the body, the dead body is revived and again living. 1 Kings 17:21,22

.....body, soul, spirit are not the same things.
A body, A soul, A spirit are "parts" of ONE individual man.
1 Thes 5:23

A Body of a man HAS A SOUL, "within" the body. 2 Kings 4

A Body of a man HAS A SPIRIT, "within" the body. Zech 12:1

Scripture is CLEAR HOW a body is Formed BY God. Gen 2:7 [a]

Scripture is CLEAR HOW a body RECEIVES WITHIN IT....
a living soul "INTO" the body Gen 2:7
... and
a born again spirit, "WITHIN" the body
Ezek 36:26

Perhaps you should LEARN what "INTO" and "WITHIN" means......

Then TRUST WHAT the Scripture actually SAYS, instead of trying to undermine the understanding of Scripture.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

My mistake. I thought you disagreed with me when I said that Genesis 2:7 teaches that the Living Soul comes into existence as consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and ceases to exist when God gathers His Breath of Life back to Himself from the Body at the moment of death of the Living Soul.

Look. VERY ELEMENTARY Basics...

God created the earth. It exists, it is Dry land.

God scrapes together some Dust on the Earth and says....there.... I've have created a form, I'll call a man, a body.

Oh, wait. This Formed man/body does absolutely NOTHING. It is not ALIVE.

God has a BRILLIANT PLAN and Executes HIS PLAN, to bring this .... LUMP of Formed Dust, into A living state.

HOW ? By blowing HIS BREATH "INTO" the MANS nostrils.

AND WHAT exactly is BLOWN INTO THE man/form?

Two things....
1) a that IS HIS soul
2) His Life IN the soul.

And what does that MAKE the Man/form THEN?

It MAKES the Man's FORM, alive.
With WHAT?
A soul that belongs TO GOD, and LIFE that IS GODS.

By default, WHEN Gods gives a MAN/form one of HIS SOULS, with HIS LIFE IN IT....the MAN/form/body's "own" LIFE BEGINGS LIVING.

And WHAT is the MANS FORMED LIFE? BLOOD.

Once a SOUL, that belongs to God, and Gods LIFE, IS IMPARTED INTO a Created MAN/FORM/BODY....that man HAS ITS OWN PERSONAL (to Him only), LIFE...HIS BLOOD.

A mans BLOOD/LIFE, is the mans OWN choices TO DO WITH HIS LIFE, as HE chooses.

All souls belong to God.
All Life IN souls belong to God.

All souls with Gods Life, IN a single man, are CALLED BY that single mans IDENTITY/name.

However WHEN that single mans BLOOD LIFE DIES.....God dictates what will become OF "the SOUL (that belongs to Him), and the LIFE (that belongs to Him)"....that WAS IN that single man.

God is a God of the LIVING.
Life that belongs to Him;
Souls that belongs to Him;
Spirits that belongs to Him;
DO NOT Remain IN a DEAD MANS FORMED BODY.

I agree with Scripture.
I do not agree with your understanding of teaching of Scripture.
I do not agree with ANYONE who twists my words to mean something I never said.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Parables use scenarios and images -- and don't have any requirement to be literal in every detail.

Yet you fail to acknowledge Jesus is the Truth and only the Truth could come out of His mouth. 1Pet 2:22.

Parable of The Mustard Seed in Mt 13:31-32.

Mt 13:31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches.”

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed in the world – and the plant that comes from it is not the largest tree in the world either.

The Fact is Jesus was speaking of the "Smallest OF THEIR SEEDS"
And Jesus was speaking "OF THEIR GARDENS".

But this is not an issue

Of course it is an Issue.

What you are doing is Turning the TRUTH into a LIE...and promoting the LIE as TRUTH.

because parables are not always literal in every detail.

When Jesus speaks, yes, it is absolute TRUTH, regardless of WHAT His speech is called.

Very strange, to observe someone claiming to be a Christian, spending so much time trying to make Jesus out to be a FALSE SPEAKER!

What is obvious to me, I am quite confident is well known to Jesus Himself.

 

[BobRyan]

Yet you fail to acknowledge Jesus is the Truth

false.

I admit to the glaringly obvious fact that Jesus used parables and that parables "by definition" can contain elements that are merely there to illustrate the main point of the parable... such as "praying to the dead" in Luke 16 or "Abraham sovereign of all saints in heaven" etc.

This is going to be very obvious to all Bible students - the objective unbiased reader.

You have free will and can reject it even so.

Emotional statements do not have the "substance" to displace irrefutable facts

 

[Phoneman777]

I already Understand the body and soul (and spirit) are NOT the same things....they are PARTS of "AN" individual man, that receive each of THOSE "parts" at different times, in different ways.

ONE MAN, Three different LIFE forms, Three different times the LIFE becomes a part of the ONE MAN, Three different WAYS, each LIFE FORM becomes WITH or WITHOUT God FOREVER.

Bodily forms, come from Dust, via Gods Hand. Life form....BLOOD

Living souls, come from God, via Gods Breath. Life form....Gods Breath

Born Again spirits, come from God, via Gods Seed. Life form....Gods Spirit

ALL Bodies are Sentenced TO DEATH.

All Living souls ARE NOT SENTENCED TO DEATH.

NO BORN AGAIN spirits ARE SENTENCED TO
DEATH.

You want to teach the Body and Soul ARE the same thing.....that is an ERROR.

The are NOT the same thing....they are a part of ONE MAN.

You want PROOF a SOUL is IMPARTED?

Scripture is not a written in "cheat sheet" FACT FORM style.

The Body, Soul, Spirit "OF" One man are separate THINGS.

Gen 2:7 [a]Dust formed, called man
Gen 2:7 Living Soul "INTO" the formed man.

Rocket Science...."A MAN IS" A FORM "AND" LIVING SOUL.

Elementary Understanding....
The FORM and LIVING SOUL, came from TWO different places, at TWO different Times!

An individuals Direction....
Keep reading and Learn what becomes of ...
The Body.
The Soul.
The Spirit.

Dead body buried...Living soul departs dead body.....Gen 35:18

Living Soul departs a living body, body becomes dead. Living Soul returns to the body, the dead body is revived and again living. 1 Kings 17:21,22

.....body, soul, spirit are not the same things.
A body, A soul, A spirit are "parts" of ONE individual man.
1 Thes 5:23

A Body of a man HAS A SOUL, "within" the body. 2 Kings 4

A Body of a man HAS A SPIRIT, "within" the body. Zech 12:1

Scripture is CLEAR HOW a body is Formed BY God. Gen 2:7 [a]

Scripture is CLEAR HOW a body RECEIVES WITHIN IT....
a living soul "INTO" the body Gen 2:7
... and
a born again spirit, "WITHIN" the body
Ezek 36:26

Perhaps you should LEARN what "INTO" and "WITHIN" means......

Then TRUST WHAT the Scripture actually SAYS, instead of trying to undermine the understanding of Scripture.

God Bless,
Taken

Hey, if you want to believe God breathed a Living Soul into the Body, then go right ahead, but you won't find a single verse to substantiate that.

 

[BobRyan]

Hey, if you want to believe God breathed a Living Soul into the Body, then go right ahead, but you won't find a single verse to substantiate that.

I never say "God breathed a living soul" into someone. A living soul is always the case of the spirit and body joined. A dormant "soul sleep" state is the spirit separated from the body. And then there is "both body and soul destroyed in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28 which is another thing entirely.

But I am very careful not to make any statement that puts me at risk when someone quotes Matthew 10:28 or when someone you and I read about quite a bit - talks about "being taken up and out of her body" or "a body with wings was given me" and in the OT we have "as her spirit was departing she said ..." etc. Or when both Jesus and Stephen says things like "Lord into thy hands I commend my spirit" or "Lord receive my spirit". Or when Paul says that "whether in the body or out of the body - I do not know... God knows" regarding his own experience in vision...etc.

1 Thess 4 "God brings with him - those who have fallen asleep"

All "I need" to hold to the complete Bible doctrine on soul sleep is "the dormant state" of a person at the time of death such that when they are resurrected at the 2nd coming - it is all a mere moment of time - an instant. Holding to that Bible truth without over-extending it beyond what is written, will protect you from all the doctrinal error that Satan has to "pile on" on the subject of the soul.

 

[Phoneman777]

AND WHAT exactly is BLOWN INTO THE man/form?
Two things....
1) a that IS HIS soul
2) His Life IN the soul.

1. Genesis 2:7 says the Soul doesn't come into existence until after the Breath of Life enters the Body.
2. You say God breathed a Soul into the Body before the Soul came into existence as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and the Body.

Conclusion: You believe the impossible: that the living Soul existed prior to God breathing it into the Body, when Genesis 2:7 is clear that the Living Soul does not exist until after God breathes His Breath of Life into the Body. Got it.

 

[Phoneman777]

I never say "God breathed a living soul" into someone. A living soul is always the case of the spirit and body joined. A dormant "soul sleep" state is the spirit separated from the body. And then there is "both body and soul destroyed in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28 which is another thing entirely.

But I am very careful not to make any statement that puts me at risk when someone quotes Matthew 10:28 or when someone you and I read about quite a bit - talks about "being taken up and out of her body" or "a body with wings was given me" and in the OT we have "as her spirit was departing she said ..." etc. Or when both Jesus and Stephen says things like "Lord into thy hands I commend my spirit" or "Lord receive my spirit". Or when Paul says that "whether in the body or out of the body - I do not know... God knows" regarding his own experience in vision...etc.

1 Thess 4 "God brings with him - those who have fallen asleep"

All "I need" to hold to the complete Bible doctrine on soul sleep is "the dormant state" of a person at the time of death such that when they are resurrected at the 2nd coming - it is all a mere moment of time - an instant. Holding to that Bible truth without over-extending it beyond what is written, will protect you from all the doctrinal error that Satan has to "pile on" on the subject of the soul.

sorry, I replied to the wrong person. That was for Heb man.

 

[Taken]

false.

No, as the following ONCE again demonstrates.

I admit to the glaringly obvious fact that Jesus used parables and that parables "by definition" can contain elements that are merely there to illustrate the main point of the parable...

You admit...PARABLES "by Definition" "contain elements" "to illustrate a "main point".

The fact is: PARABLES "by definition" are typically "a MADE up story" "a use of words that do not require the speaker to be speaking, Literal Truths.....to make a point"

What you FAIL to comprehend....IS:
Nothing UN-TRUTHFUL could/can come out of Jesus mouth.

The "by Definition" of a Parable....
DOES NOT APPLY TO JESUS!

You are Teaching it does....which is your attempt to teach the RESULT... that Jesus Did speak things that were NOT TRUE.

Your reasoning does not matter.
End result is; YOUR TEACHING is Teaching Jesus opened His mouth and spoke things THAT were NOT TRUE!
Which IS YOUR FALSE TEACHING! Period!

such as "praying to the dead" in Luke 16 or "Abraham sovereign of all saints in heaven" etc.

You keep repeating these "obscure Claims".

Where exactly are Your claims Spoken BY Jesus?

This is going to be very obvious to all Bible students - the objective unbiased reader.

What IS Obvious...
1) IS you are teaching Jesus Spoke thing that were NOT TRUE.
2) IS you are attempting TO pawn off Your words/Claims on Jesus, "As IF" He is accountable for WHAT YOU say.

You have free will and can reject it even so.

No kidding! I absolutely REJECT your False Teaching about Jesus!

Emotional statements do not have the "substance" to displace irrefutable facts

Fact IS: Jesus IS Absolute TRUTH. He CAN NOT speak what is not Truth.

BobRyan

 

[Taken]

Hey, if you want to believe God breathed a Living Soul into the Body, then go right ahead, but you won't find a single verse to substantiate that.

Hey, if you do not understand, bodies come from the earth and return to the earth.....
And Living souls come from God, and are WITHIN the body, and Living souls DEPART dead bodies....
Bodies Return to Dust.
Saved souls return to God.
Unsaved souls go to Hell.

You have already been given Scripture of HOW and from WHAT and BY WHOM a body is created.

You have already been given Scripture of HOW and WHEN and BY WHOM a body receives A LIVING SOUL.

You have already been given Scripture of WHEN a Living SOUL Departs OUT OF A BODY, and WHERE the BODY goes, and WHERE the Living SOUL Goes and WHY.

You have already been given Scripture that a BODY, a SOUL, a SPIRIT "ARE" all DIFFERENT THINGS, that APPLY to the Identity OF ONE SINGLE man.

I can not READ FOR YOU, nor UNDERSTAND FOR YOU, nor BELIEVE FOR YOU.

It is your prerogative, to not read, not believe, not ask God for HIS understanding.

So, since you do not believe GOD "puts" a living soul INTO a created body....

Do you ALSO believe, living souls DO NOT DEPART out of a Dying/Dead Body?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

1. Genesis 2:7 says the Soul doesn't come into existence until after the Breath of Life enters the Body.
2. You say God breathed a Soul into the before the Soul came into existence as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and the Body.

Conclusion: You believe the impossible: that the living Soul existed prior to God breathing it into the Body, when Genesis 2:7 is clear that the Living Soul does not exist until after God breathes His Breath of Life into the Body. Got it.

What are you babbling on about?

Let's examine....

Your word......"existence"..

You claim "existence" is IN "Gen 2: 7"...

Uh...hum...did I claim that? NO, you did.

Then you CONCLUDE .... what I supposedly believe...IS....BASED on YOUR WORDS?

LOL....

Sorry dude... Pay attention. I don't agree with your words you speak for yourself, and certainly do not agree with your words, you speak for me!

If you want to hang on YOUR key word "existance"....

Quote the Scripture saying that.
Then Quote my words saying that.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BobRyan]

What you FAIL to comprehend....IS:
Nothing UN-TRUTHFUL could/can come out of Jesus mouth.

Your entire argument is based on the wild speculation that "parables are lies so Jesus never told one" -- which is totally false.

Parables "are not lies"
Parables illustrate a point

 

[BobRyan]

No, as the following ONCE again demonstrates.
You admit...PARABLES "by Definition" "contain elements" "to illustrate a "main point".

The fact is: PARABLES "by definition" are typically "a MADE up story"

Definition --

"A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse that illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters"

By contrast there is "historic account" --

You are creatively suggesting the idea that all parables are 'historic accounts' -

something that no Bible scholar would defend.

You add to that creative effort by claiming that Christ "would be a liar" if He used parables in addition to "historic accounts" to make his point.

 

[Jun2u]

You are creatively suggesting the idea that all parables are 'historic accounts' -

something that no Bible scholar would defend.

You add to that creative effort by claiming that Christ "would be a liar" if He used parables in addition to "historic accounts" to make his point.

INDEED A PARABLE IS A HISTORICAL ACCOUNT!

Bible scholars have feet of clay like everybody else.

A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning.

Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, we read in Mark 4:34.

By definition this makes the whole Bible a parable. Have you heard of the term, “The greatest story ever told?”

Perhaps you should read, Mark 4:10-13, especially verse 13.

To God Be The Glory