Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[Wick Stick]

This doesn't have to be so convoluted and legalistic if we just use regular logic...

The Sabbath was created for men to rest - it's a worker's right that prevents employers from working their employees to death, literally.

Does that still exist? Yes. Does it fall on Saturday? Usually. But if someone has a different regular, habitual day of rest, the intention of the commandment is still satisfied.

What about gathering to worship? Worship is NOT rest, and the commandment has nothing to do with going to church. Not on Saturday. Not on Sunday. There is a command to "forsake not the assembling of ourselves" in the New Testament, but that is not one of the 10 Commandments.

 

[Davy]

"In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men".

That's not about Christians that is about JEWISH PHARISEES OF JUDAISM, and their followers. That was Jesus speaking to the blind scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 15. Even by your vain attempt to use that to push Judaism, you show YOU ARE BIASED AGAINST CHRIST AND CHRISTIANITY.

Paul's referring to annual feast day "sabbaths" - not the weekly Sabbath of the Lord. Feel free to ask why and I'll show it to you from Scripture.

You must be a Bill Clinton fan, like when he said, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." When Apostle Paul mentioned for the CHRISTIAN to not allow any man to judge them regarding the "sabbath days", the word in the Greek there is 'sabbaton' which directly refers to the weekly Hebrew sabbath!

It's obvious you don't really care what The New Testament says, but only wish to try and change what it says just so you can keep your 'own' Jewish traditions.

"Handwriting of ordinances that was against us" refers to the Mosaic Law, not the Ten Commandments. Feel free to ask why and I'll show you from Scritpure.

Once again, you refuse to recognize that Apostle Paul was speaking of the sabbath in Colossians 2:14-16.

Absolutely applies. "Jesus Christ, the SAME yesterday, today, and forever."

God and His Christ are always the same, but His covenants are not always the same. You instead try to push that the old covenant (which is DEAD) and The New Covenant are the same, which is a LIE from those who hate Christ and Christianity.

The Sabbath was made for M-A-N, not J-E-W so therefore calling it "Jewish" is a capital mistake. The only difference between the OC and NC is where the law is written. A true NC Christian has the 4th commandment written on his heart. People should feel guilty when the find out they're routinely breaking one of God's commandments.

You don't even understand what you quote from Jesus...

When the Pharisees asked Jesus why His disciples did that which is unlawful to do on the sabbath, Jesus then said to them...

Mark 2:25-27
25 And he said unto them, "Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?"

27 And He said unto them, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"
KJV

Jesus above put the idea of the sabbath keeping in proper perspective according to His creation. The creation of man is MORE IMPORTANT than keeping the sabbath.

But you PHARISEES instead make keeping the sabbath MORE IMPORTANT than the man, and even push lies that one is thus not keeping God's commandments by not keeping the sabbath according to your law, and thus shall not enter into God's Kingdom. You thus making law-keeping MORE IMPORTANT than FAITH which is the ONLY WAY of GOD'S SALVATION through His Son Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:20-28
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
KJV

And that was Apostle Paul speaking that above, a Jew who was taught God's law by the best Hebrew scholar of his day, Gamaliel. You would do well to heed what Apostle Paul said there.

 

[Davy]

Leviticus 23
37‘These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord.

.

Col 2:13-16
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
KJV

 

[quietthinker]

Trying to combine parts of the old covenant with the New Covenant causes confusion for those doing such, and SDA people are definitely confused people

you're only trying to convince yourself BBJ

 

[ewq1938]

"Sunday is our MARK of authority. The Church is ABOVE the Bible and this transferrence of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact". - Catholic Mirror.

"Of course the catholic church claims the change was her act. An the act is the MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious matters." - Chancellor to Cardinal Gibbons

So your info bout the mark is SOLELY from outside of the bible, from your own enemy! What else do they teach that you base your theology on? Mine is solely based on what the bible actually says. You might want to try that.

The Beast tells you what it's mark is, but you refuse to believe it, which puts you in grave danger of accepting it.

You are the one accepting what "the beast" is teaching you.

So, you who has no idea who the Beast is presumes to instruct others about what its Mark is or is not? That's rich.

At least I stick with the bible and not what your version of the beast teaches. You teach what the beast has taught you which contradicts what the bible teaches on this matter. That's the richest of all.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

you're only trying to convince yourself BBJ

I'm not a sbbatarian so I don't need convincing, homie.

The pope is irrelevant.

This is true!

 

[Phoneman777]

Saturday sabbath was replaced in the New Covenant with a better REST that can only be found by abiding IN Christ walking in faith... EVERY DAY, not just one day

"My covenant will I not break NOR ALTAR the thing that is gone from My lips".
What went forth from His lips? The Sabbath commandment

Some of you sabatarians claim keeping Saturday sabbath is not a requirement for salvation... if that is truly the sabatarian position then you all are wasting your time going around claiming Christians are required to keep Saturday sabbath and then turn around and claim it has nothing to do with our salvation.

Keeping the Sabbath is part of our "reasonable service" since we were "created in Christ Jesus unto good works". We don't keep the Sabbath to be saved, but because we "keep the commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight". He who refuses to obey is a "liar and the truth is not in him" says 1 John 2:4 KJV.

Trying to combine parts of the old covenant with the New Covenant causes confusion for those doing such, and SDA people are definitely confused people View attachment 40795

The OC had the Ten Comms written in stone and the NC is the same law written in our hearts, right or wrong?

A true NC Christian is led by the Lord to abide IN Christ walking in faith, resting from doing their own works... ALL seven days a week... not just one day a week.

The Sabbath commandment not commands rest on the 7th day, but work on the first six days. That's why the 7th is so special: it's the one day we can lay aside all that and just spend time with Jesus and the brethren before obediently returning to work the rest ofthe week.

This is where the SDA religion is confused as they reject the better promises of the New Covenant and instead they cling to the old covenant that has been taken away by the Lord so He could establish the new.

It's too bad to see the SDA religion be so confused about this and their rejection of the New Covenant..

OC in a nutshell:
(God) "I promise to bless you if you obey Me"
(People) We promise to obey You if you bless us"

(((Cue spectacular failure of the people to keep their promise)))

NC in a nutshell:
(God) "I promise to bless you if you obey Me - and since you can't keep your promises - if you ask Me to, I promise to declare you justified ("imputed righteousness") and I'll come into your heart and live out My obedient life in you and give you credit for My righteousness ("imparted righteousness").
(People) "Lord, thank you...please, sit on the throne of our hearts and do for us what we can't do ourselves".

Same law, only with better promises. It's really that simple.

Is your claim is not going to church on Saturday is a sin? Those not observing Saturday are unrighteous? View attachment 40794

"To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin". If God says keep the 7th day holy, and we're out there chasing paper instead of keeping it holy, well...

And you'll notice NO specific day is given... under the New Covenant, ALL... ALL days are to be holy unto the Lord!

Where does it say God made all days holy? Sorry, but it's not there. He made only one day holy - the Sabbath - and Christians are as obligated to keep that one as they are all Ten Comms which "stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness".

Trying to keep a day holy that God never made holy is like me asking you to come over and keep a fire burning that I never bothered to light, right or wrong?

In the New Covenant... we are under grace, NOT the Law of Moses.

Grace doesn't grant us liberty to break the Ten Comms any more than the grace of a motorcycle cop who lets a speeding motorist go grant that motorist the liberty to disregard the speed limit, right or wrong?

The New Covenant is based on better promises than the old covenant was. (Hebrews 8:6)

Yes, the "better promises" of God to come into our heart and keep up our end of the bargain for us, seeing that we suck at keeping our promises ourselves. Let us rejoice in our wonderful, merciful Savior God!

The sabbath was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11. Moses served as a high priest (Exodus 28:1) and as a prophet of the Lord, and He was faithful in his calling over his house (the old covenant).

Maybe the SDA religious peoples will get it someday and quit being so confused.

The Sabbath predates Moses, as do all Ten Comms. Mount Sinai was merely where God "codified" on paper what had already existed by word alone.

When the 4th comm says God "blessed the Sabbath day" it's referring precisely to the blessing that went forth in Eden on the 7th day...because "Thou blessest, and it shall be blessed forever" and doesn't require a "mountain top booster shot".

 

[Phoneman777]

So your info bout the mark is SOLELY from outside of the bible, from your own enemy! What else do they teach that you base your theology on? Mine is solely based on what the bible actually says. You might want to try that. You are the one accepting what "the beast" is teaching you.

Is a murderer's confession admissible in court as evidence to convict him?

At least I stick with the bible and not what your version of the beast teaches.

Your Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurist ideas you've obtained from the Beast are not supported anywhere in Scripture.

You teach what the beast has taught you which contradicts what the bible teaches on this matter. That's the richest of all.

Of course, I tell people what the Beast says and does, because it's a fulfillment of prophecy.

Did the papacy think to change times and laws?
Yes, Sabbath to Sunday, 2nd commandment gone, etc.

Did the papacy reign for 1,260 symbolic days or literal years?
Yes, from 538 to 1798.

Did the papacy wear out the saints of the Most High?
Between 50 - 150 MILLION saints were put to death for the crime of "heresy" during the Dark Ages.

Does the papacy claim to be "anti-christos"?
They make it their BOAST that the pope and priests "take the place" of Christ.

I could go on...

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What went forth from His lips? The Sabbath commandment

He also said back then you had to kill animals to cover yo sins... you been killing animals to wash away yo sins?

You better get to it... God doesn't change what comes out of His mouth right?

Keeping the Sabbath is part of our "reasonable service" since we were "created in Christ Jesus unto good works". We don't keep the Sabbath to be saved, but because we "keep the commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight". He who refuses to obey is a "liar and the truth is not in him" says 1 John 2:4 KJV.

So your claim is those that don't go to church on Saturday... will burn in hell?

The OC had the Ten Comms written in stone and the NC is the same law written in our hearts, right or wrong?

Not Saturday sabbath... under the New Covenant we are to count ever day as holy unto the Lord and rest in faith on ALL days. Sabbatarians still stuck on just one day a week.

Same law, only with better promises. It's really that simple.

But you guys just think it's one day a week that is holy... you still stuck in the old covenant.

"To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin". If God says keep the 7th day holy, and we're out there chasing paper instead of keeping it holy, well...

There's a better deal in the New Covenant... ALL days are counted as being holy unto the Lord.

You fellas need to up yo standards and come on up where Jesus is!

Christians are as obligated

So your claim is those that don't go to church on Saturday... will burn in hell?

By going to church on Saturday... you think you are working to earn your salvation!

Grace doesn't grant us liberty to break the Ten Comms any more than the grace of a motorcycle cop who lets a speeding motorist go grant that motorist the liberty to disregard the speed limit, right or wrong?

God never tells Christians to go to church on Saturday

seeing that we suck at keeping our promises ourselves

Speak for yourself.

God taught me in my Bible that I can do all things THRU CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME! (Phil 4:13)

Maybe you fellas need to learn how to abide IN Christ, eh?

The Sabbath predates Moses

There was no command to go to church on Saturday before God gave the Law of Moses....

 

[Cassandra]

So your info bout the mark is SOLELY from outside of the bible, from your own enemy! What else do they teach that you base your theology on? Mine is solely based on what the bible actually says. You might want to try that.






You are the one accepting what "the beast" is teaching you.




At least I stick with the bible and not what your version of the beast teaches. You teach what the beast has taught you which contradicts what the bible teaches on this matter. That's the richest of all.

It was instituted at Creation, and God did not put a ceremonial law into the 10 commandments. Hes not stupid. If that law were to change, He would not have put it there. Ever heard of the term engraved in stone?
God says in Ezekiel to Hallow His sabbaths.
Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Maybe phoneman didn't explain that. But it is just as much a part of the Bible as any other.
God blessed the 7th day as an exclusive day off. He was specific.

I don't give a hang if you folk worship on Sabbath or not. That is between you and your Creator. It does surprise me though that I see more and more folk accepting it.
Phoneman, God bless you for your information, but here its like talking to a tree.
You have posted what you needed to, and those outside of here may read and make their own choices

 

[BarneyFife]

What about gathering to worship? Worship is NOT rest, and the commandment has nothing to do with going to church. Not on Saturday. Not on Sunday. There is a command to "forsake not the assembling of ourselves" in the New Testament, but that is not one of the 10 Commandments.

Leviticus 23:3​

‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.​

​

“’There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the LORD.​

.

 

[ewq1938]

Your Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurist ideas you've obtained from the Beast are not supported anywhere in Scripture.

Don't change the subject. You are getting your mark of the beast info from the very beast you believe issues that mark!

Did the papacy reign for 1,260 symbolic days or literal years?
Yes, from 538 to 1798.

Imaginary years plus the Papacy still reigns. The 1260 days are days and are applied to teh two witnesses not the beast. Teh beast has 42 months. Try changing times of that into something for the Papacy.

Did the papacy wear out the saints of the Most High?
Between 50 - 150 MILLION saints were put to death for the crime of "heresy" during the Dark Ages.

Your preterist beliefs are false. The 42 months of the beast is future, known as the trib.

Does the papacy claim to be "anti-christos"?
They make it their BOAST that the pope and priests "take the place" of Christ.

Another strawnman fallacy. Also, there are many antichrists until the last one which isn't going to be the RCC at all but something new.

 

[BarneyFife]

Your preterist beliefs are false.

I guess, to a futurist, historicist interpretation is preterist?

.

 

[Davy]

It was instituted at Creation, and God did not put a ceremonial law into the 10 commandments. Hes not stupid. If that law were to change, He would not have put it there. Ever heard of the term engraved in stone?
God says in Ezekiel to Hallow His sabbaths.
Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Maybe phoneman didn't explain that. But it is just as much a part of the Bible as any other.
God blessed the 7th day as an exclusive day off. He was specific.

I don't give a hang if you folk worship on Sabbath or not. That is between you and your Creator. It does surprise me though that I see more and more folk accepting it.
Phoneman, God bless you for your information, but here its like talking to a tree.
You have posted what you needed to, and those outside of here may read and make their own choices

Everyday is a sabbath in Christ Jesus to me, so whether one worships on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, they are keeping God's sabbath in Christ Jesus. That is why Apostle Paul said in Colossians 2 to not let any man judge us (Christians) regarding holy days including 'sabaton' (Greek for the weekly sabbath).

And that means NO man has the authority to say, "if you don't keep to Saturday sabbath like we 7th Day Adventists (etc.) do, then you are disobeying God's commandments and are going to hell." And truth be told, they are not actually keeping the old covenant sabbath they claim, because the old covenant sabbath was kept according to the Hebrew calendar of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, as the Orthodox unbelieving Jews keep it, and no work was to be done during that period, not even cooking!

 

[BarneyFife]

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
KJV

The "Sabbath days" spoken of in Colossians 3:16 are there classed among the very ceremonial ordinances that are distinguished from the Sabbath(s) of the LORD in the latter part of Leviticus 23, where they were originally given.

The Ten Commandments were not handwritten—they were etched in tablets of stone by the finger of God. Tablets of stone can't be nailed to a wooden cross.

It's all very simple, really, as disagreeable as it seems to be to so many. I can't judge anyone or force them to do anything. I have no authority to do so, nor would I want to. But I can and I will testify to what the Bible says.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

Everyday is a sabbath in Christ Jesus to me, so whether one worships on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, they are keeping God's sabbath in Christ Jesus.

Whatever it means to you, it is impossible to keep the Sabbath of the 4th commandment in this way. And there is no record of anyone commanding or keeping it that way in the Bible.

That is why Apostle Paul said in Colossians 2 to not let any man judge us (Christians) regarding holy days including 'sabaton' (Greek for the weekly sabbath).

No, he said that because there was a huge problem with Jewish converts to Christianity urging Gentile converts to observe many articles of the ceremonial law.

And that means NO man has the authority to say, "if you don't keep to Saturday sabbath like we 7th Day Adventists (etc.) do, then you are disobeying God's commandments and are going to hell."

Of which you're not likely to hear much around here and if you did, you'd probably survive it with your safety and welfare intact.

And truth be told, they are not actually keeping the old covenant sabbath they claim, because the old covenant sabbath was kept according to the Hebrew calendar of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, as the Orthodox unbelieving Jews keep it, and no work was to be done during that period, not even cooking!

The strict civil laws regarding Sabbath-keeping prescribed under the ancient Hebrew theocracy are no longer being enforced and only serve as a disingenuous and obnoxious distraction from the discussion as to whether the moral law of the Ten Commandments have been abolished or truncated.

.

 

[Brakelite]

This is good stuff, PM. I would say, though, that when a person is sealed in the proper, Biblical way there is, in fact, a 'containment' aspect.

Agreed. We are absolutely guaranteed eternal life, in other words our salvation is more secure and sure than tonight's sunset, because God has promised, through His word, that He will finish what He has begun. Our sure living faith in that promise is based on none other than a true understanding and appreciation of His character of love. A knowledge that it is harder to be lost than to be saved. That to be lost, one must actively resist and with determination reject the gift offered. We must throw it back in the face of God, and declare, NO. I DON'T WANT IT. And then live accordingly.

 

[Brakelite]

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 4th commandment. Interesting isn't it, God isn't here making the 7th day of the week holy. It's already holy, and He's commanding His people to keep it that way. How? By stopping work. By setting aside 24 hours for Him. Just Him. Whether you do this by going to church, worshiping at home, with your neighbours, or serving the homeless at the local shelter, it doesn't matter. The day is His. It isn't yours. It's the LORD'S day. It's the Sabbath of the LORD. You cannot choose to discard it, disregard it, replace it, or displace it. The 7th day of the week is and always will be the LORD'S day, it is and always will be holy, sanctified, and blessed. You may profane it, spit on it, defame it, or pretend you have the authority and power to move it to another day, but it won't be moved. You do not have that authority. You do not have that power. You can even pretend that every day is your Sabbath, but the 7th day will stay right where it is, it will remain holy despite your best efforts to nullify it's importance, and it will be in your face until the day you die.
Every... single... week. There it is. The 7th day Sabbath. "Nuh" you say. "It's not my Sabbath! My Sabbath is (fill in the blank)". Guess what. You are correct. The 7th day Sabbath isn't your Sabbath. It belongs to your Creator. Instituted the day after man was created. Made for man, that he may give time and place for His Creator. And God blessed, sanctified, and made that one day of the week holy... For man's benefit. And man says, "nuh. Shove it".
And to those who recommend it, they say "you can't make me do it! I'm doing my own thing. You can't make me! You can't!!! You are all liars!! You are (again, fill in the blanks). "

Interesting how vociferous, animated, and angry the opposition is to the 7th day Sabbath. One might think they are being convicted of truth and determined to avoid it. Like addicts oppose freedom on account of wanting to do what they want. Not all will understand the irony.

 

[BarneyFife]

Agreed. We are absolutely guaranteed eternal life, in other words our salvation is more secure and sure than tonight's sunset, because God has promised, through His word, that He will finish what He has begun. Our sure living faith in that promise is based on none other than a true understanding and appreciation of His character of love. A knowledge that it is harder to be lost than to be saved. That to be lost, one must actively resist and with determination reject the gift offered. We must throw it back in the face of God, and declare, NO. I DON'T WANT IT. And then live accordingly.

AMEN, Brother!

I don't usually take it for granted that God is trying harder to save me than I am trying to be lost, but when I do, He hounds me until I give up and give in. I turned my case over to Him for good 34 years ago, and He has been faithful as the Author and Finisher of my feeble faith. I don't know why He puts up with me, except when I look at the Cross. As much as I know better than to stray from Him for even a minute, He hangs there, slain for me, and says: "Father, forgive him, for he knows not what he does."

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


.

 

[ewq1938]

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 4th commandment. Interesting isn't it, God isn't here making the 7th day of the week holy.

That's part of Judaism not Christianity. We honor the fulfilled Sabbath, resting and worshipping on any day we choose including the evil first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.


This happened not too long after the cross! The disciples and Apostles showing the church what was acceptable and on what day.


Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Here they met every day, DAILY! That includes Saturdays and Sundays. There wasn't a certain commanded day of the week to meet together in the temple (known as going to church in modern times).


Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Same is seen here.