Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,119
6,351
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's part of Judaism not Christianity. We honor the fulfilled Sabbath, resting and worshipping on any day we choose including the evil first day of the week.

There is no such thing as a "fulfilled Sabbath" any more than there is a fulfilled commandment to abstain from Idolatry, murder, theft, adultery, etc. Sarcasm duly noted, the first day of the week is not evil, although its misuse or abuse can be, just as with any other gift of God.

That's part of Judaism not Christianity. We honor the fulfilled Sabbath, resting and worshipping on any day we choose including the evil first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.


This happened not too long after the cross! The disciples and Apostles showing the church what was acceptable and on what day.


Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Here they met every day, DAILY! That includes Saturdays and Sundays. There wasn't a certain commanded day of the week to meet together in the temple (known as going to church in modern times).


Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Same is seen here.

This is waffling back and forth between Sunday and "Anyday." There's no "commanded" day—just an "acceptable" day? It's confusion. And God is not the author of confusion.

Most people have to eat daily, so they might as well do so with gladness and singleness of heart.

Paul and the other apostles preached any time they got a chance. They didn't wait for the Sabbath. Worship is fine any day. Work (unnecessary or for personal gain) is not.

The instruction is clear. It has been convoluted by sometimes well-meaning postmodern Christians who either weren't alive or weren't practicing 50 years ago when no one made these anti-Sabbath arguments.

I've literally watched the dispute go from a simple "Saturday vs Sunday" debate to anything from a "spiritual Sabbath" (every day) to a complete replacement of the Ten Commandments with either "Love the LORD with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:29-31) or simply "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Galatians 5:14).

The Man who said, quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3, that man should not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God in Luke 4:4, never intended for His Word to be divided in two or distilled into a drive-thru sound-byte of exclusively authoritative dogma.

I tremble at the thought of one day seeing folks try to make these arguments at the bar of God.

:hearteyes:
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,594
6,443
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
That's part of Judaism not Christianity. We honor the fulfilled Sabbath, resting and worshipping on any day we choose including the evil first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.


This happened not too long after the cross! The disciples and Apostles showing the church what was acceptable and on what day.


Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Here they met every day, DAILY! That includes Saturdays and Sundays. There wasn't a certain commanded day of the week to meet together in the temple (known as going to church in modern times).


Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Same is seen here.
Please read... And think...
KJV Acts 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Perhaps you would like to explain why Gentiles asked Paul to teach them the following Sabbath, and the entire city showed up, on the Sabbath, to hear Paul preach and teach the gospel? The Gentiles could have asked Paul to teach them on Sunday, the following day, or on Monday, or Paul could have told them, making full use of such an opportunity, that the next day was the sacred day for gentiles, and only the accursed Jews met on Sabbath. What an opportunity that would have been to introduce what Christians today accept as a fundamental doctrine. But no. The gentiles knew the Sabbath was a day for holy activities, and Paul agreed, and the entire Gentile city showed up
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,046
1,230
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please read... And think...
KJV Acts 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Perhaps you would like to explain why Gentiles asked Paul to teach them the following Sabbath, and the entire city showed up, on the Sabbath, to hear Paul preach and teach the gospel?

Because it was tradition that the preaching of the OT and of Judaism happened on Saturdays. Paul taught CHRISTIANS on a Sunday, because they knew him personally. Strangers had no access to these Sunday preachings so they had to contact Paul in public, during the times he preached on a Saturday to the Jews.


How about now you address and admit Paul taught the disciples and Apostles on Sunday as shown in Acts and that there is nothing wrong with it.

I addressed your post, now directly address mine about Sunday preaching and teaching by the Apostle.
 
  • Love
Reactions: David in NJ

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,879
2,530
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The "Sabbath days" spoken of in Colossians 3:16 are there classed among the very ceremonial ordinances that are distinguished from the Sabbath(s) of the LORD in the latter part of Leviticus 23, where they were originally given.

The Ten Commandments were not handwritten—they were etched in tablets of stone by the finger of God. Tablets of stone can't be nailed to a wooden cross.

It's all very simple, really, as disagreeable as it seems to be to so many. I can't judge anyone or force them to do anything. I have no authority to do so, nor would I want to. But I can and I will testify to what the Bible says.

.

I already showed from the New Testament Greek the word 'sabbaton' (NT:4521) in Colossians 2:18 which means the weekly sabbath.

Col 2:13-17
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

The ordinances in the law have to do with old covenant 'ritual', ceremonial worship. None of the blood ordinances are required any longer. Even God's passover is given by Apostle Paul in a new way, as likewise here by Paul regarding the keeping of holy days or the sabbath.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
KJV


Those holy days, new moons, and sabbaton, are things for the world to come after Jesus returns. Then in that time we will keep those things. That is what Paul means with "a shadow of things to come". The idea that God made the 'sabbath' FOR man applies today, not the man made FOR the sabbath, like the Orthodox Jews, and Judaizers try to push.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,879
2,530
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever it means to you, it is impossible to keep the Sabbath of the 4th commandment in this way. And there is no record of anyone commanding or keeping it that way in the Bible.
It does not matter WHICH day a believer on Jesus Christ uses to worship on. We are to be in Christ everyday now, not just on a Jewish sabbath day.
 
  • Love
Reactions: David in NJ

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,119
6,351
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I already showed from the New Testament Greek the word 'sabbaton' (NT:4521) in Colossians 2:18 which means the weekly sabbath.

Of course, you mean verse 16, I guess, and if you knew anything about Greek at all you'd never have claimed such a thing.

Acts 20:7 N-GNP
GRK: μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων ἡμῶν
NAS: On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together
KJV: the first [day] of the week, when the disciples
INT: first [day] of the week having come together we

Colossians 2:16 N-GNP
GRK: νεομηνίας ἢ σαββάτων
NAS: a new moon or a Sabbath day --
KJV: or of the sabbath [days]:
INT: new moon or Sabbath

By your logic, Acts 20:7 should read: "On the first day of the sabbath..."

It does not matter WHICH day a believer on Jesus Christ uses to worship on. We are to be in Christ everyday now, not just on a Jewish sabbath day.

Baloney. You can't take a day off from self-serving work every day. And the ancient Hebrew economy had (in Christ) daily sacrifices. The New Covenant is Everlasting—presnt, forward, and backward. Doubling down isn't going to make reality go away.

.
 
Last edited:

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,430
2,608
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Don't change the subject. You are getting your mark of the beast info from the very beast you believe issues that mark!
Of course I am - once you identify the Beast, all you have to do is ask it what its Mark is..."Sunday is our Mark of authority".
Imaginary years plus the Papacy still reigns. The 1260 days are days and are applied to teh two witnesses not the beast. Teh beast has 42 months. Try changing times of that into something for the Papacy.
42 months = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years = "time, times, and half a time". All of them are describing the reign of the papacy. The two witnesses are 3 1/2 days, not 1260 days.
Your preterist beliefs are false.
You don't listen too well. I've told you many times Preterism, like you Futurism, is a JESUIT doctrine invented by Jesuit Alcazar for the same reason Jesuit Ribera invented Futurism: to get everyone looking either to the past or the future instead of at the papacy.

You've been suckered in by the Jesuits while I preach PROTESTANT HISTORICISM, understand? Say it with me: "PROTESTANT HISTORICISM".
The 42 months of the beast is future, known as the trib.
42 months are the reign of the papacy.
Another strawnman fallacy. Also, there are many antichrists until the last one which isn't going to be the RCC at all but something new.
Yes, but there's only one antichrist that's a BEAST SYSTEM - the papacy. It's the Little Horn of Daniel, the Beast of Revelation 13, the Whore riding the Beast, etc.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,046
1,230
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course I am - once you identify the Beast, all you have to do is ask it what its Mark is..."Sunday is our Mark of authority".

Ok, let the beast teach you instead of what the bible actually teaches about the mark.

You've been suckered in by the Jesuits while I preach PROTESTANT HISTORICISM, understand? Say it with me: "PROTESTANT HISTORICISM".

No, you have been suckered by the teaching of the beast you think you oppose. HISTORICISM is just another way to say Preterism and the RCC did create it as well as Amill. They did not create futurism, which is the biblical basis of all prophecy. The real antichrist needs people to think the RCC/Papacy is the AC so you won't actually be able to identify the real AC who will claim, seem and appear to be God, likely a version of Jesus. Those who think the AC is just some dumb Pope will never actually be able to recognize the real AC. Don't feel bad though, as all Christian denominations have doctrines in place to allow a safe and unidentified appearance of the true Antichrist.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,594
6,443
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I addressed your post, now directly address mine about Sunday preaching and teaching by the Apostle.
There is but one instance in scripture of Paul speaking to anyone on the first day of the week. And at least 50 occasions specifically mentioned of Paul speaking and/or meeting on the Sabbath, and not always in the synagogue. Considering he was the apostle to the Gentiles, it seems he was spending a considerable amount of his time in fellowship with the Jews. On the Sabbath.
That time you mentioned where the first day of the week was mentioned, was in fact Saturday night. It says Paul preached until midnight, on the first day. That cannot be Sunday night, the Jews didn't count their days midnight to midnight, but from sunset to sunset. The dark part of the first day of the week...Saturday night... After the Sabbath had closed at sunset. Why was Paul so intent on preaching to the church so late? Because on Sunday morning he was leaving to engage in an evangelistic campaign in other cities. In other words, He was travelling abroad. On Sunday morning. After resting on the Sabbath, He was leaving to Troas. And every Jew in the nation will be on his back for travelling more than what they called a 'Sabbath day's journey'. Oh wait. No they won't. It was Sunday!
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,447
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are to be in Christ everyday now, not just on a Jewish sabbath day.

This is true...


Of course I am - once you identify the Beast, all you have to do is ask it what its Mark is..."Sunday is our Mark of authority".
laughing2.gif
That's hilarious... the mark of the beast is something literally placed on the forehead or right hand... it's not a day of the week.

The devil is just toying with you SDA peoples getting you come out with this nonsense.


You don't listen too well.

He does desire to listen to false doctrine so why should he listen to you explain what the SDA home office requires you people to say and believe... so they don't dis fellowship you?


42 months are the reign of the papacy.

The catholics pope is the false prophet... not the anti-christ himself.


Yes, but there's only one antichrist that's a BEAST SYSTEM

No, there's actually going to be a man that is the actual anti-christ and satan is going to posses him personally.


There is but one instance in scripture of Paul speaking to anyone on the first day of the week

And yet... Jesus and none of the Apostles taught that Christians were to observe Saturday sabbath.
Not only that, there are NO warnings given to Christians that say it's a sin to not observe Saturday sabbath.

These are facts the SDA peoples just cannot overcome. Maybe you fellas should come out with an SDA Bible and put something in that says this, that way you can claim your argument is true. It's what other religions do, so don't you fellas want to compete with other religions?

Your claim that Christians are living in sin for not observing Saturday sabbath is the classic argument from silence as your SDA buddies have been taught to claim by the speaking points of the SDA home office agree.gif
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
From a blog written by Rob Boston in the magazine Church and State...
But these were not just words. Once in office, Kennedy pursued policies that strengthened the church-state wall. He rebuffed demands from the Catholic hierarchy for taxpayer aid for parochial schools, and he backed birth control programs.
The June 1963 issue of Church & State reported that Kennedy supported federal funding of population control programs overseas. Such programs may seem commonplace today, but they were hugely controversial at the time, with the Catholic hierarchy leading the opposition. Kennedy ignored the clerics and approved the aid. Kennedy also showed considerable political courage in June of 1962, when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down official programs of prayer in public schools. Polls showed that the Engel v. Vitale opinion was widely misunderstood and very unpopular. It would have been easy for Kennedy to engage in demagoguery. He did the opposite. Kennedy appealed for calm and reminded Americans of the importance of the rule of law. Speaking at a press conference, he added, “In addition, we have in this case a very easy remedy and that is to pray ourselves. We can pray a good deal more at home, we can attend our churches with a good deal more fidelity and we can make the true meaning of prayer much more important in the lives of all of our children. That power is very much open to us.”
Glenn Archer, the first executive director of Americans United, praised Kennedy for his stands in favour of church-state separation. In his 1982 memoir The Dream Lives On, Archer observed, “His presidency was a golden age for the separation cause, and it was a stirring example of one politician who kept his promises to thepeople.” The anniversary of the assassination led many writers to play “what if” games. It’s natural to speculate. If Kennedy had lived and gone on to win a second term, would he have perhaps cobbled together a coalition with enough power to have blunted the eventual rise of the New Right (with its strong Religious Right component)?
We can’t say. But we can say that one of the tragedies of Dallas is that we lost a leader committed to the great American principle of separation of church and state. No national leader who has come afterward has been as powerful an advocate for that protective barrier as JFK was. We are all much poorer for that. Unquote.

As we observe the current political situation in the U.S.A., we can clearly see how far we are along the prophetic timeline, particularly as we consider the thoughts of the founding fathers, which been ignored, revised, and distorted by today's religionists, and the clear and courageous stand made by Kennedy in the 60s. How is it that the intents of the founding fathers have been so roundly rejected and ignored? And what now do we have with soon to be 6 Catholic justices on the Supreme Court to interest the constitution in favor of church state union with no doubt the full backing off the Vatican and the strongly Catholic leaning party in power?
Revelation 13 speaks of a time when government will pass religious laws that will result in penalties being laid upon anyone who dissents. Adventist eschatology is still on the table. And as far as I can see it's standing alone.

Remember the quote from Thomas Paine. A religion that is based on law is a persecuting religion. History testifies to this truth. Are we witnessing the establishment of a law based religion in America with the full support of the evangelical and charismatic churches who only a short few years ago were denying the reformation and arguing for a return to Rome? I believe we are.
Great Post and YES, we SEE once again the Harlot 'spreading herself'

Rev 17:1-3
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

Both Dems and Reps are colluding behind closed doors = with the 'blessing' of the Pope and the 'blessing' of the spirit of antichrist.


P.S. - only God's Word stands alone - SAD must follow or they end up going off-course, even a little
 
Last edited:

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course, you mean verse 16, I guess, and if you knew anything about Greek at all you'd never have claimed such a thing.

Acts 20:7 N-GNP
GRK: μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων ἡμῶν
NAS: On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together
KJV: the first [day] of the week, when the disciples
INT: first [day] of the week having come together we

Colossians 2:16 N-GNP
GRK: νεομηνίας ἢ σαββάτων
NAS: a new moon or a Sabbath day --
KJV: or of the sabbath [days]:
INT: new moon or Sabbath

By your logic, Acts 20:7 should read: "On the first day of the sabbath..."



Baloney. You can't take a day off from self-serving work every day. And the ancient Hebrew economy had (in Christ) daily sacrifices. The New Covenant is Everlasting—presnt, forward, and backward. Doubling down isn't going to make reality go away.

.
my Brother @BarneyFife says: "The New Covenant is Everlasting—presnt, forward, and backward. Doubling down isn't going to make reality go away."

STAY in the NEW COVENANT and you will not need to "observe days, weeks, months, moons, sabbaths and etc"

Love you Barney
 
  • Love
Reactions: BarneyFife

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course I am - once you identify the Beast, all you have to do is ask it what its Mark is..."Sunday is our Mark of authority".

42 months = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years = "time, times, and half a time". All of them are describing the reign of the papacy. The two witnesses are 3 1/2 days, not 1260 days.

You don't listen too well. I've told you many times Preterism, like you Futurism, is a JESUIT doctrine invented by Jesuit Alcazar for the same reason Jesuit Ribera invented Futurism: to get everyone looking either to the past or the future instead of at the papacy.

You've been suckered in by the Jesuits while I preach PROTESTANT HISTORICISM, understand? Say it with me: "PROTESTANT HISTORICISM".

42 months are the reign of the papacy.

Yes, but there's only one antichrist that's a BEAST SYSTEM - the papacy. It's the Little Horn of Daniel, the Beast of Revelation 13, the Whore riding the Beast, etc.
@Phineman777 says: "Of course I am - once you identify the Beast, all you have to do is ask it what its Mark is..."Sunday is our Mark of authority".

Scriptually, you are far off target with that statement, that you just might end up receiving the Mark.

i pray that you would not and that you may move FORWARD with the Holy Spirit
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,119
6,351
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is true...

Everyone in all of time present, forward, and past must be in Christ daily to be saved. There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.

That's hilarious... the mark of the beast is something literally placed on the forehead or right hand... it's not a day of the week.

Unless Bible prophecy is sometimes expressed in symbolic language, which is evident to any sincere reader.

The catholics pope is the false prophet... not the anti-christ himself.

Which page of your religion's Bible Prophecy Guide is that on?

And yet... Jesus and none of the Apostles taught that Christians were to observe Saturday sabbath.

Sure He did. We've been all over that.

Not only that, there are NO warnings given to Christians that say it's a sin to not observe Saturday sabbath.

Sure there are. All Scripture is inspired and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, etc. (2 Timothy 3:16) And when that was written, the Old Testament was the only Scripture anyone had.

These are facts the SDA peoples just cannot overcome.

Not facts—active, aggressive denial of Scripture evidence.

.
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,119
6,351
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
my Brother @BarneyFife says: "The New Covenant is Everlasting—presnt, forward, and backward. Doubling down isn't going to make reality go away."

STAY in the NEW COVENANT and you will not need to "observe days, weeks, months, moons, sabbaths and etc"

Love you Barney

Right back atcha, Pal o' mine.

But, honestly, I don't observe any of the things mentioned in Colossians 2:16.

You know that. :p

:hearteyes:
.
 
  • Love
Reactions: David in NJ

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,447
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scriptually, you are far off target with that statement, that you just might end up receiving the Mark.

That's a good point... the SDA peoples may very well take the mark of the beast since it wouldn't actually have anything to do with going to church on Sunday... they'll think taking an implant so they can buy and sell and bowing down to the one world leader is no big deal
As long as the one world leader doesn't want them to do this on Sunday or course! group-hugg.gif
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everyone in all of time present, forward, and past must be in Christ daily to be saved. There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.



Unless Bible prophecy is sometimes expressed in symbolic language, which is evident to any sincere reader.



Which page of your religion's Bible Prophecy Guide is that on?



Sure He did. We've been all over that.



Sure there are. All Scripture is inspired and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, etc. (2 Timothy 3:16) And when that was written, the Old Testament was the only Scripture anyone had.



Not facts—active, aggressive denial of Scripture evidence.

.
For the Record: @David in NJ fully believes that sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is the Official scriptural seventh day of the week of our yearly earthbound calendar.

LARGE PRINT VERSION
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right back atcha, Pal o' mine.

But, honestly, I don't observe any of the things mentioned in Colossians 2:16.

You know that. :p

:hearteyes:
.
By His Grace, Love and Holy Spirit, @BarneyFife and @David in NJ LIVE inside the SAME Church that is built without men's hands.

YET, we have never met 'face to face' and have never been in a earthbound building together.
 
  • Love
Reactions: BarneyFife