Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

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Phoneman777

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Still nothing in the New Testament that says New Covenant believers are instructed to only rest and worship on Saturday
The Ten Commandments are written on the heart of the NC Christian.

If you refuse to keep the 4th commandment which says WORK the first six days and REST the 7th day, you prove you're not a NC Christian no matter how high you raise the praise in church.
So it's official... SDA is definitely a cult just like mormans and JWs.
A Christian cult is a group who falsely claims to follow Christ's commandments but knowingly follows "the commandments of men" in Rome.

That would be YOU, BB.
Those that don't agree with the cult will burn in hell... according to the false doctrines of the cult. View attachment 41799
True Christians know after we accept Christ into our heart by faith, obedience becomes the outward evidence of our inward conversion (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

Christians cults presume to bargain with God over the terms of their salvation - which is the ultimate in stupidity, because they don't realize the only thing they can possibly bring to the bargaining table is a lost soul.
You STILL have no scripture from the New Testament that says New Covenant believers are instructed to only rest and worship on Saturday View attachment 41800
"It is therefore the DUTY of the people of God to KEEP THE SABBATH". - Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta

If you're not willing to obey God and go to heaven (Revelation 22:14 KJV), then I strongly suggest you consider the only other alternative.
Still nothing in the New Testament that says New Covenant believers are instructed to only rest and worship on Saturday
"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". - Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta

BTW, "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" - so I strongly suggest you stop rebelling against the truth.
Jesus took away the old testament law and establish the Law of Christ with Himself as the High Priest... it's too bad you apparently are not with Jesus and continue to cling to the law of moses.
The Ten Commandments existed before Moses, understand?

1. Jacob knew God forbid worshipping "other gods". (Genesis 35:2)
2. Job knew God forbid idolatry. (Job 31:26-28)
3. Job knew God forbid blasphemy. (Job 1:5)

4. Israelites knew God forbid Sabbath breaking even before they got anywhere near Sinai. (Exodus 16:23)
5. Ham knew God forbid dishonor of father and mother. (Genesis 9:22)
6. Cain knew God forbid murder. (Genesis 4:13)
7. Joseph knew God forbid adultery. (Genesis 39:9)
8. Job knew God forbid theft. (Job 24:14)
9. Job knew God forbid lying. (Job 31:5-6)
10. Job knew God forbid coveting. (Job 31:7)

A blind man can see the Ten Commandments ain't Mosaic.
Those that think performing the good work of resting and worshiping on Saturday only earns their salvation... are going to be shocked when they croak someday to learn Saturday cannot earn their way ion to Heaven. View attachment 41802

That's too bad for you homie!
The Just Man falls from time to time, but allows God to raise him up.

The Presumptuous Man who loves climbing down into the pit of sin, sitting down confortably among the filth, swatting away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and shoving his "OSAS License to Sin" in His face will split hell wide open, no matter how high he raises his praise hands in church.
 
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Phoneman777

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I know of three translations of the Peshitta into English and only the one from Dr. Lamsa uses "duty" and his theology is very questionable. I reject his translation and wording.


As if Sunday-seduced scholars are immune to prejudice, right?

But, it should stand as truth unopposed that the Sabbath commandment is repeated for Christians in the NT just as much as "Let him who stole steal no more" and "Honor thy father and mother" as well as the rest of the Ten Commandments, seeing that we have Bauscher's "So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath" - and also Murdock's "...are to have a Sabbath" - and also Norton's "...a keeping of Sabbath rest" - along with Lamsa's "duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" which is perfectly acceptable, seeing that he derives "duty" from the "qym"...which undeniably means "valid"...which (oh, you're going to HATE this) by definition is "legally binding due to having been executed in compliance with the law"

Of course it stands unopposed, except by those whose "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft", and whose "stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry".
 
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Phoneman777

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You have made up your own version of Adventist teaching... As I have quoted above, and as you have repeated numerous times before... And despite being shown precisely what Adventists actually do teach, still you are laboriously demanding we find evidence in scripture of your made up version. That's called a straw man. Of course there's no evidence in scripture for your made up doctrine. That's why we Adventists don't teach it. It isn't in scripture.
However, with that said, let me add, that6 000 years ago, almost to the day, Jesus created a day. He called it the seventh day, He blessed it, sanctified it, making that particular day holy. Nowhere and at no time in subsequent history, up to this day, is there any record or hint that Jesus changed His mind and reversed His earlier classification. Therefore, the seventh day is still holy. And it was just as holy after the crucifixion as it was the day before, as evidenced by it's observation by the women who arrived at the tomb to attend to the body of their Lord on the 1st day of the week.
Now, 1500 years previous to this, as Israel as a nation were being led from Egypt after 400 years of slavery and indoctrination into occult and pagan idolatry, God needed to remind them of one practise that was very important to Him, one that would enhance His newly formed relationship with the children of Abraham, with the view of revealing to the world through them, His power and care and love for those who were willing to obey Him. That very important practise was to remind them to honour and observe the 7th day Sabbath. This practise would set them apart from the rest of the world, and through it, prove God's care and provision. In fact the Sabbath was so important to God, He included it in the Decalogue 3 months later at Sinai.

I believe God is still the same. Yesterday, today, and forever. He still desires that His people reveal to the world God's power, care and love. He also wants His people to be separate from the world. A unique people. Set apart. A people who would demonstrate that God has changed them, that they are truly born again, a people who through their love for God, for one another and their neighbours, are willing to obey all of God's Commandments. And the only way they can do this, the only way anyone can do this, is through resting in Him 24/7.
I don't observe the Sabbath to be saved. I was already fully justified by the blood of the Lamb and had been for 15 years before God showed me a more complete way of honouring Him. I don't observe the Sabbath to complete my salvation. My relationship with God was already established. But the Sabbath totally brought us closer. Nor do I, nor does my church, teach that everyone else who attends church on another day, is destined for hell.
This thread wasn't about whether Sabbath keeping is right or wrong, or whether anyone not observing it are necessarily sinners. Nearly everyone has completely missed the point. America today is in a battle, and has a moral dilemma on their hands. No Christian in their right mind would deny the depths of wickedness that is today pervading western society, and much of it found its woeful beginnings in places like Hollywood, and then exported to the world. America is in trouble because they are looking to correct this state of affairs with the right motives, but the wrong methods. The Bible says,
KJV 2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

KJV Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

While desiring good things for the nation, the church in America has taken up the battle against people. The real enemy isn't those people who identify as another political party to yours. It isn't those who adorn themselves with rainbow colours and want to be "inclusive and tolerant". The enemy isn't sitting next to you in church and moaning about the hard nosed pastor preaching about sin and honouring God. Nor is the enemy Christians who choose to worship in such a manner you find egregious or a contradiction to your personal beliefs. No. The enemy is spiritual. The enemy is one that can be overcome only by prayer. Not by politics. Not by debate and clever polemics. "Not by power, nor by might, but by My Spirit saith the Lord". America is in trouble because she is looking in the wrong direction to solve issues that can be solved only by personal, heartfelt, repentance and consecration to God's will and purpose.

KJV Luke 22:25-26
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them (politics); and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. (Or social welfare and government or socialism, consumerism, or capitalism, or communism, or fascism etc etc)
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

America is in trouble because very soon, a union of church and state will be legislating Christian worship practises according to man made and man inspired doctrines. In particular Sunday sacredness. This isn't a new thing. Compelling by force of law and punitive judgements has been behind the establishment of Sunday in the Christian church since the Laodicea council in the 4th century. Quote...
“Christians shall not Judaize (observe the Sabbath)and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing (observing the 7th day Sabbath), they shall be shut out from Christ” .

Sunday blue laws were not to far in the past, enforced in most states in the US. Today, there are numerous conservative Christian groups seeking to re-establish them, and make them enforceable, including of course the Catholic church which was responsible for baptizing the "day of the sun" very early in Christian history, with recent popes writing encyclicals advancing the interest in Sunday legislation, using climate change, family interests, and the like as catalysts for a political global enforcement of Sunday. This movement toward Sunday will find its fulfilment first in the US. It may begin as a benign observance. Take Sundays off. Relax. Take the family out. Stop work. It's good for the family. Good for the climate. PROJECT 2025 mentioned this. The 180 day mandate for the new government in 2025. Laudato Si, Laudato Diem, and other encyclicals are promoting it. It's coming.

When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman (Catholic) power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism (Secret societies, Freemasons, occult practises and sorcery, and the current Hollywood free for all in entertainment so welcomed now even in church) when, under the influence of this threefold union, (Revelation 16:13) our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near 5T 451.1

Enforcing by law a religious practice that will eventually displace biblical truth, and then enact punitive punishments (no buy or sell) against those practising Bible teachings according to their own conscience and their God given right to religious freedom, will bring down the nation, and usher in the final movements before the second coming. Personally, I say bring it on. But I'm the meantime everyone, in particular the church, needs to be warned of the direction their leaders are taking them.

KJV Daniel 12:1
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
The worst examples of "Legalism" are demonstrated by those who desperately search for "legal loopholes" to get around having to obey the Ten Commandments - the chief of which is the argument that "The Sabbath didn't exist until Mount Sinai because the day wasn't named "Sabbath" before that, so it's for the Jews only, not Christians".

Of course, "Sabbath" goes all the way back to Eden - because the testimony in Exodus 20:11 that God blessed the "Sabbath" day is absolutely without question referring to the blessing that went forth from God in Eden when He blessed the seventh day. How do we know?

Because 1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV plainly says when God blesses a thing, it's "blessed forever" --- which means God's blessing of the seventh day in Eden was just as effectual at the time they arrived at Sinai and absolutely didn't require any "mountain top booster shot".

So far, our OSAS License to Sin "legal eagles" have failed to find even a hole big enough for the Kung Flu to get through.
 

Ziggy

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If you refuse to keep the 4th commandment which says WORK the first six days and REST the 7th day, you prove you're not a NC Christian no matter how high you raise the praise in church.
What kind of work?

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Phoneman777

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What kind of work?

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"Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work..." - "work" referring to routine employment, home, auto, academic, any activities demanding our focused attention down here...which is why God gave us one day to refocus it up there.

What wife would be pleased if her husband returned home from a grueling 6 day business trip, only to walk into the house and immediately pick up the TV remote or a Popular Mechanics magazine or head out to the garage with a new socket ratchet or the workshop with a new router bit?

The reason why so many "Christians" will enter in the wide gate to destruction is because they draw close to Christ with their mouths and honor Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him...which is why the idea of keeping the Sabbath makes them bristle so. "What?! An entire day spent with Jesus instead of OT with the boss or my favorite Netflix binge or my latest addition to the big boys toys? Cannot be!"
 
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Ziggy

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"Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work..." - "work" referring to routine employment, home, auto, academic, any activities demanding our focused attention down here...which is why God gave us one day to refocus it up there.

What wife would be pleased if her husband returned home from a grueling 6 day business trip, only to walk into the house and immediately pick up the TV remote or a Popular Mechanics magazine or head out to the garage with a new socket ratchet or the workshop with a new router bit?

The reason why so many "Christians" will enter in the wide gate to destruction is because they draw close to Christ with their mouths and honor Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him...which is why the idea of keeping the Sabbath makes them bristle so. "What?! An entire day spent with Jesus instead of OT with the boss or my favorite Netflix binge or my latest addition to the big boys toys? Cannot be!"
I spend 7 days a week with the Lord regardless if I am washing the dishes, vacuuming the floor, taking care of my dad, doing the laundry, taking out the trash, making phone calls, paying the bills......
Jesus is with me every minute of everyday.
How do you seperate yourself from God for 6 days of the week?

Are you so caught up in this worlds doings that you can't take Jesus to work with you? Maybe he wouldn't mind working on the car with you, or even watching a ball game. Remember, Jesus was a carpenter and could probably show you spiritual truths while your working with your socket ratchet in the workshop.
Why does it have to be seperate?

I was out working in my garden one day and Jesus started explaining to me regarding the branches and the vine.
Why cultivating out the weeds to make room for plants to grow was so important in our spiritual walk with him.
As I was "working" he was "teaching" .
Isn't that the way it should be?

My husband drove a big rig and wouldn't be home for months on end. When he come home the first thing he would do is start doing maintenance on the truck.
I knew it was important to keep that truck rolling down the road, so I would roll up my sleeves and go out there and help him change tires or fix the exhaust or whatever needed tending.
Then when that was done, he would come in and cook dinner and do the dishes.
Team work.

I'm not making excuses why people should or shouldn't set aside a particular day to worship the Lord.
I'm just saying everyday is alike to me. No day goes by that I am working or not working with the Lord.

So which gate you think is wider? Those that spend all their time with the Lord, or those that spend just one day with the Lord?

What day of the week was it that Martha was taking care of the guests and Mary was sitting at the Lord's feet listening?

Luk 10:38
Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
Luk 10:39
And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40
But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41
And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.


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Brakelite

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@Ziggy says: The Sabbath is of faith, not of works. If you keep it as a specific day of the week keep it with faith.
If you choose not to keep the day, then don't keep it with faith.
Either way it is faith which opens the door to God's rest.

Amen

This is True unless you attempt to observe the day as under the law = Exodus 31:12-17

TODAY, the only 7th Day of REST is in the Lord Jesus Christ

Question: Why did God establish the 7th Day as 'rest' in Genesis which is before the law AND why did God then add a eternal death penalty to anyone who does any work or have a fire on that day - Exodus 31:12-17
There is a heck of a lot of human reasoning going on here, with a few quotes from scripture that aren't saying what you want them to say. For example. Where does scripture actually say, "thus saith the Lord, the 7th day is no longer holy". Or, "the rest all Christians have in Me replaces the 7th day Sabbath Commandment." Or, "obeying the suggestions of the church circumvents what I have taught you by the Holy Spirit through My word".
I guys have a lot to say. It sounds spiritual. Some of it is truth. Good truth. Important truth. Such as coming to Christ and resting in His provision of redemption. Trusting in HIS power to transform our lives for the better. Resting in faith that what He has begun, He will finish. But there are other things we must rest in also. We must rest in His authority over us. Trust that what He has said, He means. Trust and rest in His provision of righteousness. Trust and rest in His word. Take Him at His word. How scripture reads, is how scripture is meant to be understood. For example. Do you really believe that Jesus blessed, sanctified, and made holy the 7th day? Do you rest in that truth, do you trust in that truth, do you rest in the promise of blessing that comes from acknowledging the authority of God over you in respect to honouring the holiness of that day?
People do teach that any day in seven is okay. Others teach that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. Still others teach that every day is a Sabbath because they 'rest every day'. But none of those ideas... Not one of them... Comes to us with any more authority than man's word. So if you subscribe to any one of the above, or a mixture of them, who's authority are you surrendering to? Your own? The church's? The pastor down the street? You tube? An internet anti-Adventist web page?
Seriously, examine yourselves. No pretence. KJV Romans 6:16
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Yeah, I know. "We don't have to obey the Commandments. That's old covenant." That's what you will reply. Then when you are pushed, and challenged even a little, regarding say, the 7th commandment, what's the response? Oh, that was repeated in the NT. And then, as we work through God Commandments, we inevitably come down to one. The Sabbath. So what happened to the other 9? Were they not nailed to the cross? Were they not abolished along with the rest of the law? Were they not "fulfilled", "finished", was Christ not the end of those laws? Or were they reinstated? Brought back into favour? Christians are brought back into bondage because they must obey the 9? Those are the accusations and charges we are met with when we mention the 4th commandment, but the 9 are exempt? Where does it teach anything like that in scripture? Was there no law between the time of Christ's death and the time when those Commandments were reinstated? If someone killed his neighbour on the Day of the resurrection, did He get away with that because where there is no law, there is no sin?
God already did this with Moses and the law = it did not work!
So who are these guys?
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And these...?
KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 

BarneyFife

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Big Boy Johnson said:
And now.. you will see an exercise in double speak as they will say no they don't believe that.

But, if you get out on the net and search for SDA teachings, you'll find a lot of SDA peoples do actually teach this.
And the ones on this board will makes excuses claiming they cannot control with other SDA members teach as they claim to speak for their religious organization claiming they don't believe this.
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This is some pretty funny stuff considering Big Troll is always prancing around saying that the Seventh-day Adventist "home office" is coming after us when we don't toe the line. I guess when trolling is your thing you can't waste much time making sure you don't commit the "I'm having it both ways" fallacy. The claim that we're policing ourselves very well except for when we really stink at it is not very believable.
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But, in many of their posts they continually claim not observing Saturday sabbath is breaking God's commandment which is in fact claiming those that don't attend on Saturday are not obeying God's will which is claiming it is a sin.
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So, if Clarence Darrow, here, in his closing arguments (now, wouldn't that be nice?) had ever bothered to push a verb up against a noun for any better purpose than to behold his own "Everybody's wrong but me" bluster, he might have come up with something better to entrap "poor Saturday sabbath peoples" than several degrees of "is"; "which is" separation.

I'm thinking there'll be no need to recall the missionaries from overseas just yet.

Breaking his nonsense down, the main reason his ridiculous assertion is so erroneous is that:


I'm pretty sure it's not my, nor anyone else's responsibility to decide whether or not someone on the other end of an Internet message board is living in sin.

Now, if you want to know what sin is I can tell you
exactly the same thing your Bible says: It is the transgression of divine law.


And that used to be enough for the simplest of folk to understand where they stood because just a few decades ago, nobody claimed that Hebrews 4 or Matthew 11:28 canceled or replaced the 4th commandment, but it's not exactly breaking news that we have widely varying views here at CyB as to what the divine law actually is, either. Ask 10 people and you'll get 11 different answers.

So therein lies another gaping hole in Big Troll's increasingly malicious accusation of condemnation or whatever one prefers to call it. The Law can be anything from some mystical, Holy Spirit-suggested code to "the law of Christ" to "the royal law" or whatever cherry-picking method one prefers to use to justify 86ing the 4th commandment on any given day, because that's the only one the guns are ever trained on—and it never changes.

No one will ever cop to condoning the breaking of any one of the other 9—they usually won't even so much as refer to them in the same post or even in the same thread, sometimes—so... (
especially for the loudest of the Sabbath objector horn blowers) it isn't about grace vs. legalism; Old Covenant vs. New Covenant or any such thing:

Folks are down on what they're not up on. They (
understandably) don't want to hear that they might've overlooked one of God's requirements. That's "not peace, but a sword" talk—IOW, "Them's fightin' words."

Because it seems that some people woke up one day and realized, "Hey, we're not even doing this the right way on the wrong day." I'm sure that a lot of this happened subconsciously, but as someone who's aware of what has taken place, I'm under no less of an obligation to bring it to light. Throwing out the baby with the bath water is never a good solution. We've been had by the devil. There's no insurmountable shame in that. He's pretty slick from what I understand and pretty angry with us and with Christ. But the jig
is up.


And I certainly hope that not everyone who sins, especially unknowingly or unintentionally, is immediately transferred to the "bound for hellfire" list without any recourse (and I just can't believe I'm having to explain this) because if that's how things work then we're all in big trouble.

But the standing of anyone else (besides myself) with God is something to which I'm not, nor have I ever been privy.

So, sorry, Clarence, but
"is..." "which is..." "which is..." evidence is just textbook equivocation and lying tonguery.


Big Troll is having a great time hopping around the board stalking Sabbatarians, some of which are Adventists; some not; some aren't even Sabbatarians at all, yet he pretends they are and taunts them for a while until they catch on to his mean, bad-natured hijinx—a lot like that little Gremlin in the Bugs Bunny cartoon.

But we're not alone, and there's plenty enough vexing mockery, laughing emoticons, and insults to go around for everyone who makes it onto Big Troll's False Doctrine Peoples List.

'

'
 
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BarneyFife

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Jesus is with me every minute of everyday.
How do you seperate yourself from God for 6 days of the week?
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Zig, do you think it was ever Christ's intention for the children of Israel to separate themselves from Him for 6 days of the week?

I mean, isn't that what the "pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night" thing was all about?

Not even while they were asleep did He leave them.

It doesn't seem like you to resort to building straw men, Zig.

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BarneyFife

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Big Boy Johnson said:
So ultimately they contradict themselves by claiming not observing Saturday sabbath is breaking what they think is God's command applicable to New Covenant Christians.. and then they'll turn around and say it's not a sin that causes one to not be saved.. so the Saturday peoples are confused concerning their own doctrine.
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This kind of thing makes the rounds a lot and could probably use some addressing. Adventists have been skittish about creeds from the very beginning and rightfully so, considering all the persecution that made its way to American shores during the pilgrimage.

We're a decidedly independent bunch, and we have some diversity about certain interpretations of Scripture and other issues, in general.


(I realize the Internet has brought about an age of incredulity mixed with gullibility that results in no one believing anything they read or hear unless they believe everything they read or hear, but this alleged inconsistency is to be expected and allowed under the principles of religious liberty which Americans today seem to think means prayer in public schools and all sorts of other Christian Nationalistic, religious suppression and oppression.)


For instance, the Adventist church fairly recently experienced a controversy regarding the ordination of women to the Gospel ministry that, while voted decidedly against in the 2015 General Conference session of worldwide delegates in San Antonio, TX, was ignored and violated by some union and local conference level administration.

But Adventism isn't a totalitarian structure so the General Conference administration simply warned, counseled, and encouraged folks to comply in the interest of church unity, which was met with mostly negative feedback and practice. But due diligence was done and the rest was left to God in His providence.

Similarly, even the defense of the Sabbath itself is not always uniform among Adventists. Some interpret Hebrews 4:9 to be a positive command to observe the 4th commandment in the literal, weekly sense. I tend not to agree,
and it simply doesn't mean a thing as regards the perpetuity of the 7th-day Sabbath command, because good hermeneutics doesn't depend on hair-splitting, anyway—there's always more evidence for truth than there are time and prayerful effort people are willing to expend.


In and of itself, it's certainly not a hill upon which I am willing to die, but I do tentatively agree with the 1980 revised edition of The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary in its particular interpretation of Hebrews 4:9's usage of the Greek word "Sabbatismos." And that's that.

And here's the reference for any who might be interested:

(From https://ia801007.us.archive.org/21/items/SdaBibleCommentary1980/SdaBc-7 (58) Hebrews.pdf)



Rest. Gr. sabbatismos, “a resting [from previous activity],” “a cessation [from previous activity],” later “a Sabbathkeeping,” from the verb sabbatizos̄, “to rest,” “to cease,” “to keep Sabbath.” Sabbatismos appears elsewhere neither in the Bible nor in ancient literature until the 2d and 3d centuries, with the possible exception of a single occurrence in Plutarch Moralia 166A. Consequently, some have concluded that the writer of Hebrews coined the word as he wrote this passage (see Moulton and Milligan, Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament).

Sabbatismos and sabbatizō are Greek renderings of the Hebrew noun shabbath and its related verb shabath, respectively, and the meaning of the latter may be expected to cast light on the meaning of the former. Shabbath occurs 101 times in the OT, where it generally means “Sabbath,”—the seventh day of the week—or “week,” a period of seven days marked off by successive Sabbaths. It is also used of the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:6; 26:34, 43; 2 Chron. 36:21). The verb shabath occurs 70 times, 7 times with reference to the Sabbath rest and 63 times with reference to other kinds of rest. For instances of the latter usage see Gen. 8:22; Joshua 5:12; Neh. 6:3; Lam. 5:14; Isa. 14:4; 24:8; 33:8. The root meaning of the verb shabath is “to cease,” “to rest.” The word sometimes denotes the weekly Sabbath rest. But the noun shabbath, derived from shabath, commonly denotes the weekly Sabbath rest, and also the space of time marked off by successive Sabbaths, the week (Lev. 23:15), and the sabbatical years (ch. 26:35; etc.). It may be noted also that shabbathon, which is simply shabbath with the ending –on, is used of the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:31; 23:32), of the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:4, 5), of the Feast of Trumpets (Lev. 23:24), and of the first and last days of the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev. 23:39)—as well as of the seventh-day Sabbath.

Sabbatizō is used seven times in the LXX, once of the literal seventh-day Sabbath (Ex. 16:30), once of other sabbaths (Lev. 23:32), and five times of the land’s resting in the sabbatical year (Lev. 26:34, 35; 2 Chron. 36:21). In the LXX of Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34, 35 sabbatizō is from the Hebrew shabath. Accordingly, the fundamental idea expressed by sabbatizo in the LXX is that of resting or ceasing from labor or other activity. Hence usage of the related Greek and Hebrew words implies that the noun sabbatismos may denote either the literal Sabbath “rest” or simply “rest” or “cessation” in a more general sense. Thus, a linguistic study of the word sabbatismos in Heb. 4:9 leaves it uncertain whether the weekly Sabbath “rest” is here referred to, or simply “rest” or “cessation” in a general sense. Context alone can decide the matter.

The writer of Hebrews appears to use katapusis and sabbatismos more or less synonymously:

  1. Because Joshua could not lead Israel into spiritual “rest” (katapausis, v. 8), a sabbatismos (v. 9) remains for Christians. Consistency seems to require that what remains be the same as what was there to begin with. Because Joshua did not lead literal Israel into spiritual “rest” would be no reason for the Christian to observe the Sabbath.
  2. From vs. 1, 6 it is clear that what remains for the people of God in NT times is a katapausis; in v. 9 it is said that a sabbatismos remains. To declare that what remains for “the people of God” is the weekly Sabbath, is to declare that what Joshua failed to lead Israel into was the weekly Sabbath.
  3. The fact that in the LXX, the Bible of the NT church, katapauō (Gen. 2:2, 3); Ex. 20:11) and sabbatizō (Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32) are used interchangeably to denote the seventh-day Sabbath, would tend to preclude the suggestion that the writer of Hebrews intended to make a distinction between the noun forms of these words in Heb. 3; 4.

It may be noted, further, that the Jews of Paul’s time, whether Christian or non-Christian, were punctilious in their observance of the fourth commandment. Certainly, in writing to Jews, the author of Hebrews would not consider it necessary to prove to them that Sabbathkeeping “remaineth.” If the conclusion of the extended argument beginning with ch. 3:7 is that Sabbathkeeping remains for the people of God, it would seem that the writer of Hebrews is guilty of a non sequitur, for the conclusion does not follow logically from the argument. There would have been no point in so labored an effort to persuade the Jews to do what they were already doing—observing the seventh-day Sabbath. Furthermore, in apostolic times the seventh-day Sabbath was observed by all Christians, Jew and Gentile alike, and any argument to prove the validity of the Sabbath in those early Christian times would have been pointless. Furthermore, it may be observed that the section of the book of Hebrews consisting of chs. 3 and 4 opens with an invitation to “consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus” (ch. 3:1), and closes with an earnest plea to “come boldly” before Him in order to “obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need” (ch. 4:16). What relationship a protracted argument designed to prove that Sabbath observance remains as an obligation to the Christian church might have to the declared theme of chs. 3 and 4—the ministry of Christ as our great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary—is obscure indeed.

“The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace” (EGW Supplementary Material on Heb. 4:9; cf. GC 253). It is “the true rest of faith” (MB 1).

We enter into God’s “rest” when we “consider” Jesus (ch. 3:1) and listen to His voice (chs. 3:7, 15; 4:7), when we exercise faith in Him (ch. 4:2, 3), when we cease from our own efforts to earn salvation (v. 10), when we “hold fast our profession” (v. 14), and when we draw near to the throne of grace (v. 16).


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David in NJ

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There is a heck of a lot of human reasoning going on here, with a few quotes from scripture that aren't saying what you want them to say. For example. Where does scripture actually say, "thus saith the Lord, the 7th day is no longer holy". Or, "the rest all Christians have in Me replaces the 7th day Sabbath Commandment." Or, "obeying the suggestions of the church circumvents what I have taught you by the Holy Spirit through My word".
I guys have a lot to say. It sounds spiritual. Some of it is truth. Good truth. Important truth. Such as coming to Christ and resting in His provision of redemption. Trusting in HIS power to transform our lives for the better. Resting in faith that what He has begun, He will finish. But there are other things we must rest in also. We must rest in His authority over us. Trust that what He has said, He means. Trust and rest in His provision of righteousness. Trust and rest in His word. Take Him at His word. How scripture reads, is how scripture is meant to be understood. For example. Do you really believe that Jesus blessed, sanctified, and made holy the 7th day? Do you rest in that truth, do you trust in that truth, do you rest in the promise of blessing that comes from acknowledging the authority of God over you in respect to honouring the holiness of that day?
People do teach that any day in seven is okay. Others teach that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. Still others teach that every day is a Sabbath because they 'rest every day'. But none of those ideas... Not one of them... Comes to us with any more authority than man's word. So if you subscribe to any one of the above, or a mixture of them, who's authority are you surrendering to? Your own? The church's? The pastor down the street? You tube? An internet anti-Adventist web page?
Seriously, examine yourselves. No pretence. KJV Romans 6:16
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Yeah, I know. "We don't have to obey the Commandments. That's old covenant." That's what you will reply. Then when you are pushed, and challenged even a little, regarding say, the 7th commandment, what's the response? Oh, that was repeated in the NT. And then, as we work through God Commandments, we inevitably come down to one. The Sabbath. So what happened to the other 9? Were they not nailed to the cross? Were they not abolished along with the rest of the law? Were they not "fulfilled", "finished", was Christ not the end of those laws? Or were they reinstated? Brought back into favour? Christians are brought back into bondage because they must obey the 9? Those are the accusations and charges we are met with when we mention the 4th commandment, but the 9 are exempt? Where does it teach anything like that in scripture? Was there no law between the time of Christ's death and the time when those Commandments were reinstated? If someone killed his neighbour on the Day of the resurrection, did He get away with that because where there is no law, there is no sin?

So who are these guys?
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And these...?
KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
@Brakelite says: "There is a heck of a lot of human reasoning going on here, with a few quotes from scripture that aren't saying what you want them to say. For example. Where does scripture actually say, "thus saith the Lord, the 7th day is no longer holy". Or, "the rest all Christians have in Me replaces the 7th day Sabbath Commandment." Or, "obeying the suggestions of the church circumvents what I have taught you by the Holy Spirit through My word".
This is very good and is the Way we are to question and reason and analyze the Holy Scriptures.
We cannot just take suggestions or opinions as "thus saith the Lord".


Some of it is truth. Good truth. Important truth. Such as coming to Christ and resting in His provision of redemption. Trusting in HIS power to transform our lives for the better. Resting in faith that what He has begun, He will finish.
Now you are speaking 100% TRUTH here


But there are other things we must rest in also. We must rest in His authority over us. Trust that what He has said, He means. Trust and rest in His provision of righteousness. Trust and rest in His word. Take Him at His word. How scripture reads, is how scripture is meant to be understood.
More 100% TRUTH

Do you really believe that Jesus blessed, sanctified, and made holy the 7th day?
OK - Here is the KEY Question that we must find the answer to in the Holy Scriptures.

#1.) MESSIAH, was once a young boy as HE came to earth in a body prepared for HIM (Hebrews) = "born under the law."
As the Jewish boy Jesus, HE was circumcised on the 8th day according to the law.
We also know that HE performed the ritual of 'bar-mitzvah' where around the age of 12-13, a Jewish boy is to 'come of age' regarding the Holy Scriptures = we see JESUS teaching in the Temple Luke 2:42-47

And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.

Being born under the law of Moses, the young man Jesus perfectly obeyed the commandments.

Once HIS Ministry began after HE allowed John to Baptize HIM, HE began to implement the New Covenant to the Jewish people and to the rest of the world.
Which leads us to discovering what God's intended Purpose was for the 7th day of rest.

#2.) When the LORD Jesus Christ walked this earth HE never made a declaration toward the Disciples, or us or anyone to
continue in the 'saturday' observance as under the law.
In fact, the LORD of the Sabbath overruled His own commandment numerous times in the Gospel and HE did this as HE was teaching His Disciples, and us, that HE is both LORD of and over the Sabbath AND that HE is the 7th DAY of REST in PERSON on earth.

#3.) Where do we SEE the LORD instructing the Jewish people, His disciples and us, that HE is the Fulfillment of the 7th Day of REST?

Continued on next Post
 

David in NJ

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Continued from Post #651

#3.) Where do we SEE the LORD instructing the Jewish people, His disciples and us, that HE is the Fulfillment of the 7th Day of REST?

John 3:16-18 is this CENTRAL declaration of MESSIAH being the 7th Day of REST for the Jewish people and the whole world.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

MESSIAH is the REST that Genesis 2:3 and Exodus 31:12-17 speaks of.

Everything that ELOHIM did beginning in Genesis and moving forward was to establish a Perfect Foundation of TRUTH that speaks of the GOSPEL/MESSIAH thousands of years BEFORE His Coming to earth as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world".

As we continue in the Gospel we will see the LORD fulfilling and completing that which the law was intended to do =
bring us to the One Sacrifice for ALL TIME that will grant to us God's Perfect REST = JESUS the MESSIAH
 

David in NJ

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The Ten Commandments are written on the heart of the NC Christian.

If you refuse to keep the 4th commandment which says WORK the first six days and REST the 7th day, you prove you're not a NC Christian no matter how high you raise the praise in church.

A Christian cult is a group who falsely claims to follow Christ's commandments but knowingly follows "the commandments of men" in Rome.

That would be YOU, BB.

True Christians know after we accept Christ into our heart by faith, obedience becomes the outward evidence of our inward conversion (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

Christians cults presume to bargain with God over the terms of their salvation - which is the ultimate in stupidity, because they don't realize the only thing they can possibly bring to the bargaining table is a lost soul.

"It is therefore the DUTY of the people of God to KEEP THE SABBATH". - Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta

If you're not willing to obey God and go to heaven (Revelation 22:14 KJV), then I strongly suggest you consider the only other alternative.

"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". - Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta

BTW, "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" - so I strongly suggest you stop rebelling against the truth.

The Ten Commandments existed before Moses, understand?

1. Jacob knew God forbid worshipping "other gods". (Genesis 35:2)
2. Job knew God forbid idolatry. (Job 31:26-28)
3. Job knew God forbid blasphemy. (Job 1:5)

4. Israelites knew God forbid Sabbath breaking even before they got anywhere near Sinai. (Exodus 16:23)
5. Ham knew God forbid dishonor of father and mother. (Genesis 9:22)
6. Cain knew God forbid murder. (Genesis 4:13)
7. Joseph knew God forbid adultery. (Genesis 39:9)
8. Job knew God forbid theft. (Job 24:14)
9. Job knew God forbid lying. (Job 31:5-6)
10. Job knew God forbid coveting. (Job 31:7)

A blind man can see the Ten Commandments ain't Mosaic.

The Just Man falls from time to time, but allows God to raise him up.

The Presumptuous Man who loves climbing down into the pit of sin, sitting down confortably among the filth, swatting away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and shoving his "OSAS License to Sin" in His face will split hell wide open, no matter how high he raises his praise hands in church.
@Phoneman777 - "If you refuse to keep the 4th commandment which says WORK the first six days and REST the 7th day, you prove you're not a NC Christian no matter how high you raise the praise in church."

There are two ways to keep the 4th commandment:
a.) under the law = Exodus 31:12-17
b.) under MESSIAH = John 3:16-18

If you attempt to keep the 4th commandment under the law, you will die in your sins as no work and no fire is permitted under the penalty of death.

If you place your trust in the FINISHED Work of God thru the LORD Jesus Christ, then you will find REST for your soul and all Eternity.

Any attempt to ADD to the FINISHED Work of CHRIST leads to death = RCC and all religions

Any attempt to go back and submit to the law of Moses will also result in eternal death.

@Phoneman777 - Where did God place the 10 Commandments? = Inside the Ark of the Covenant = which is CHRIST
 

David in NJ

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Continued from Post #651

#3.) Where do we SEE the LORD instructing the Jewish people, His disciples and us, that HE is the Fulfillment of the 7th Day of REST?

John 3:16-18 is this CENTRAL declaration of MESSIAH being the 7th Day of REST for the Jewish people and the whole world.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

MESSIAH is the REST that Genesis 2:3 and Exodus 31:12-17 speaks of.

Everything that ELOHIM did beginning in Genesis and moving forward was to establish a Perfect Foundation of TRUTH that speaks of the GOSPEL/MESSIAH thousands of years BEFORE His Coming to earth as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world".

As we continue in the Gospel we will see the LORD fulfilling and completing that which the law was intended to do =
bring us to the One Sacrifice for ALL TIME that will grant to us God's Perfect REST = JESUS the MESSIAH

Continued in Post 653
 

David in NJ

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There is a heck of a lot of human reasoning going on here, with a few quotes from scripture that aren't saying what you want them to say. For example. Where does scripture actually say, "thus saith the Lord, the 7th day is no longer holy". Or, "the rest all Christians have in Me replaces the 7th day Sabbath Commandment." Or, "obeying the suggestions of the church circumvents what I have taught you by the Holy Spirit through My word".
I guys have a lot to say. It sounds spiritual. Some of it is truth. Good truth. Important truth. Such as coming to Christ and resting in His provision of redemption. Trusting in HIS power to transform our lives for the better. Resting in faith that what He has begun, He will finish. But there are other things we must rest in also. We must rest in His authority over us. Trust that what He has said, He means. Trust and rest in His provision of righteousness. Trust and rest in His word. Take Him at His word. How scripture reads, is how scripture is meant to be understood. For example. Do you really believe that Jesus blessed, sanctified, and made holy the 7th day? Do you rest in that truth, do you trust in that truth, do you rest in the promise of blessing that comes from acknowledging the authority of God over you in respect to honouring the holiness of that day?
People do teach that any day in seven is okay. Others teach that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath. Still others teach that every day is a Sabbath because they 'rest every day'. But none of those ideas... Not one of them... Comes to us with any more authority than man's word. So if you subscribe to any one of the above, or a mixture of them, who's authority are you surrendering to? Your own? The church's? The pastor down the street? You tube? An internet anti-Adventist web page?
Seriously, examine yourselves. No pretence. KJV Romans 6:16
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Yeah, I know. "We don't have to obey the Commandments. That's old covenant." That's what you will reply. Then when you are pushed, and challenged even a little, regarding say, the 7th commandment, what's the response? Oh, that was repeated in the NT. And then, as we work through God Commandments, we inevitably come down to one. The Sabbath. So what happened to the other 9? Were they not nailed to the cross? Were they not abolished along with the rest of the law? Were they not "fulfilled", "finished", was Christ not the end of those laws? Or were they reinstated? Brought back into favour? Christians are brought back into bondage because they must obey the 9? Those are the accusations and charges we are met with when we mention the 4th commandment, but the 9 are exempt? Where does it teach anything like that in scripture? Was there no law between the time of Christ's death and the time when those Commandments were reinstated? If someone killed his neighbour on the Day of the resurrection, did He get away with that because where there is no law, there is no sin?

So who are these guys?
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And these...?
KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So who are these guys?
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And these...?
KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

TODAY, if you will hear His Voice = the commandments of God are found only in the New Covenant and the faith of Jesus.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Under the New Covenant the LORD never instructed His Disciples to go back to the law of Moses.

SOMEONE Greater then Moses has come and FINISHED the Work of God that began in Genesis = on the 7th Day God Rested


As we continue we will SEE in Scripture the Disciples/Apostles only speaking of the NC in CHRIST and the END of the old law.
 
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BarneyFife

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Where do we SEE the LORD instructing the Jewish people, His disciples and us, that HE is the Fulfillment of the 7th Day of REST?
John 3:16-18 is this CENTRAL declaration of MESSIAH being the 7th Day of REST for the Jewish people and the whole world.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
.
No-No.jpg


IT'S
NOT
THERE.


IT'S... NOT... THERE.

'
 
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Ziggy

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.
Zig, do you think it was ever Christ's intention for the children of Israel to separate themselves from Him for 6 days of the week?

I mean, isn't that what the "pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night" thing was all about?

Not even while they were asleep did He leave them.

It doesn't seem like you to resort to building straw men, Zig.

'
google-smiling-face-with-heart-shaped-eyes-960d-mysmiley-net.png

'
Of course not.
I don't believe God actually wanted to have to give Israel any laws to begin with.
He just wanted them to love him and sit at his feet and listen to him and sup with him and celebrate with him and have a great life.

God was with them for 40 years. Day and night, night and day. The problem wasn't with God being with them, the problem was with them wanting to be with God.
And by being with God, I mean listening to him and being on the same team.

Deu 2:7
For the LORD thy God hath blessed thee in all the works of thy hand: he knoweth thy walking through this great wilderness: these forty years the LORD thy God hath been with thee; thou hast lacked nothing.

Jos 5:6
For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

Not what God wrote in stone, Not what Moses wrote in a book, it was the very voice of God they disobeyed.

It wasn't until the end of those forty years that God gave Moses the law to give to Israel.
Act 7:30
And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

Why was the law added?

Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The written law was only temporary because of their transgressions.
When Jesus came he took away those sins and said.. follow me.

God is speaking today, His voice is the Word which was made flesh and became a man who's name is Jesus.
It is this same Jesus God said of him, this is my son, hear ye him.

This is he that was in the wilderness for forty years who's voice they disobeyed. And so he gave them laws because they would not listen.

So I say, I listen everyday. I, in this life, am walking in the wilderness for whatever duration of time that may be.
I don't need a law to tell me to Love God, to have no other Gods, to spend time with him, to respect my parents, to hate no one, to lie to no one, to steal from anyone, to cheat anyone, or to desire what othe r people have.
I don't need a law to tell me not to do those things, because I am with God everyday and I listen to his voice.

That's what I meant Barney.
I'm not dissin anybody. I'm just saying, one day a week isn't sufficient for me. I would starve to death without my daily bread.
Amen?

Hugs
 

David in NJ

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.
No-No.jpg


IT'S
NOT
THERE.


IT'S... NOT... THERE.

'
Where do we SEE the LORD instructing the Jewish people, His disciples and us, that HE is the Fulfillment of the 7th Day of REST?


John 3:16-18 is this CENTRAL declaration of MESSIAH being the 7th Day of REST for the Jewish people and the whole world.


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

If you say 'NO" to the LORD and HIS REST you acknowledge that you are "lawless".

If you remain under Exodus 31:12-17 you remain under the curse of the law.

If you seek to add to the Finished Work of CHRIST, you declare that His Righteousness is insufficient and your sin remains.

There is no law that is above the Law of CHRIST.

Therefore there is no condemnation to those who are in CHRIST and have been set FREE from the law of Moses.

saturday is a day of the week - CHRIST is the DAY of REST for all who believe = TODAY, if you will hear His Voice........