How could the Messiah be sinless?

[mjrhealth]

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

 

[Cooper]

Please get to your point. Thanks.

Tong
R1003

You nor anyone in full possession of all the scriptures can not in any sensible way, deny that Jesus is "GOD WITH US."
.

 

[Tong2020]

You nor anyone in full possession of all the scriptures can not in any sensible way, deny that Jesus is "GOD WITH US."
.

I am not denying that.

Tong
R1004

 

[Cooper]

I am not denying that.

Tong
R1004

How many Gods are there? Neither can the One God be divided.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Clearly, it is the Word that became flesh.

And the Word was God. So God became flesh. Is not God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, by your estimation?

by your human wisdom?

your human wisdom

It was prophesied over me that I would have the spiritual gift of "the word of wisdom"....so you ought to consider that what you deign to be in me human wisdom may in fact be the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, given to me as a spiritual gift.

1Ti 1:18, This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

1Ti 4:14, Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Believe what has been revealed in scriptures,

I do.

not go beyond what is revealed,

I don't.

 

[Tong2020]

How many Gods are there? Neither can the One God be divided.
.

One.

Tong
R1005

 

[Tong2020]

And the Word was God. So God became flesh. Is not God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, by your estimation?

Yes God became flesh. And I have repeatedly pointed out to you that what scriptures says is this relative to that: it is the person of the Son, the Word, that became flesh, not the person of the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you wanted me to believe you that God became flesh in the persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that you tirelessly repeat and insist that. I am sorry, but I will always believe and be faithful to what scriptures teach over any other teaching of man over and above what is revealed in scriptures .

It was prophesied over me that I would have the spiritual gift of "the word of wisdom"....so you ought to consider that what you deign to be in me human wisdom may in fact be the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, given to me as a spiritual gift.

1Ti 1:18, This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

1Ti 4:14, Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Oh! So, you are a prophesied one(self-claim)? That would put you at least at par with Timothy then. Well,.....I checked with scriptures, and what you say is not what is found in scriptures. That being, what you say then would be an addition to the revelations in scriptures. I am sorry, but I stick to what the apostles preached as recorded in scriptures.

Tong
R1006

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes God became flesh. And I have repeatedly pointed out to you that what scriptures says is this relative to that: it is the person of the Son, the Word, that became flesh, not the person of the Father nor the Holy Spirit.

So the Father and the Holy Spirit are not God?

Well,.....I checked with scriptures, and what you say is not what is found in scriptures.

I believe that you have simply not come to the revelation of what is revealed in holy scripture.

For I find that what I believe about the Lord is substantiated by holy scripture and that there is nothing in holy scripture that contradicts my view.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

True Trinity.

Read at least the first five posts.

 

[Tong2020]

So the Father and the Holy Spirit are not God?

How many times would you be asking that? And how many times will I answer it for you to get it? It seems, when discussing the person of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, you easily forget who God is, that He is Deity, unique, and almighty. So that you can't seem to grasp how God can incarnate and be said to have incarnated in the person of the Son, but not in the person of the Father nor of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that you have simply not come to the revelation of what is revealed in holy scripture.

For I find that what I believe about the Lord is substantiated by holy scripture and that there is nothing in holy scripture that contradicts my view.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

True Trinity.

Read at least the first five posts.

If you believe so, so be it with you then. A Christian can read scriptures and believe what he comes to understand from it. The issue with that would be the matter of understanding. But if one believes that he is of a prophecy and believes he have the truth, even while what he teaches is beyond what is revealed in scriptures, that is something else, and is a serious matter of concern.

Tong
R1007

 

[justbyfaith]

How many times would you be asking that? And how many times will I answer it for you to get it? It seems, when discussing the person of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, you easily forget who God is, that He is Deity, unique, and almighty. So that you can't seem to grasp how God can incarnate and be said to have incarnated in the person of the Son, but not in the person of the Father nor of the Holy Spirit.

If you believe so, so be it with you then. A Christian can read scriptures and believe what he comes to understand from it. The issue with that would be the matter of understanding. But if one believes that he is of a prophecy and believes he have the truth, even while what he teaches is beyond what is revealed in scriptures, that is something else, and is a serious matter of concern.

Tong
R1007

Again, I think that you simply need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Once you do that, everything else will fall into place concerning what you believe about doctrine.

 

[Tong2020]

Again, I think that you simply need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Once you do that, everything else will fall into place concerning what you believe about doctrine.

Was already baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. So, you can stop guessing.

Again, I'd say, you need to go by Scripture, not your thinking. Believe what has been revealed in scriptures, not go beyond what is revealed, and make not your own conclusion what to believe.

Tong
R1008

 

[justbyfaith]

Was already baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. So, you can stop guessing.

Again, I'd say, you need to go by Scripture, not your thinking. Believe what has been revealed in scriptures, not go beyond what is revealed, and make not your own conclusion what to believe.

Tong
R1008

I do believe that I believe according to what the holy scriptures teach.

So, you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Was this contrary to the baptism mentioned in Matthew 28:19?

I believe that the scriptures teach that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)); even the Spirit of truth. And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

How then is it that you don't see that according to these scriptures, Jesus is the Father? For if Jesus is a separate Lord from the Father, that is two Lords.

Also, I believe that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6); the Father (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9, John 8:58, Exodus 3:14, John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

But with those things in mind, consider the following:

Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It has been shown that the one Spirit is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; that the one Lord is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; and that the one God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; while God is uniquely identified as being the Father in holy scripture:

Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Jas 3:9, Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Rom 15:6, That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Notice that in this, I am not denying that Jesus is God (for I am saying that He is the Father come in human flesh).

I would encourage you to really think about what it says in the following scripture:

Heb 2:11, For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13, And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Here, the same Person who sanctifieth declares that we are His brethren and that we are His children, all at the same time.

It is written,

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

 

[Tong2020]

I do believe that I believe according to what the holy scriptures teach.

So be it with you.

So, you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Was this contrary to the baptism mentioned in Matthew 28:19?

Of course not.

I believe that the scriptures teach that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)); even the Spirit of truth. And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

How then is it that you don't see that according to these scriptures, Jesus is the Father? For if Jesus is a separate Lord from the Father, that is two Lords.

Scriptures speaks of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct persons. And so, I take them accordingly. Jesus is not a separate Lord from the Father and there are not two Lords but one Lord.

Also, I believe that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6); the Father (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9, John 8:58, Exodus 3:14, John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

But with those things in mind, consider the following:

Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It has been shown that the one Spirit is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; that the one Lord is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; and that the one God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost; while God is uniquely identified as being the Father in holy scripture:

Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Jas 3:9, Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Rom 15:6, That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Notice that in this, I am not denying that Jesus is God (for I am saying that He is the Father come in human flesh).

I would encourage you to really think about what it says in the following scripture:

Heb 2:11, For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13, And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Here, the same Person who sanctifieth declares that we are His brethren and that we are His children, all at the same time.

It is written,

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

You just keep repeating what you post, for which I have already responded to. So I will just let them be here.

Tong
R1009

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course not.

So, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost?

Scriptures speaks of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as distinct persons. And so, I take them accordingly. Jesus is not a separate Lord from the Father and there are not two Lords but one Lord.

If there is one Lord, and Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is the Father. Because the Father is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). In light of that, can you say Jesus is the Lord? I tell you verily that you cannot do so except ye have the Holy Ghost indwelling you. But I would like an answer from you.

You just keep repeating what you post, for which I have already responded to. So I will just let them be here.

However, you said that I had no biblical basis for what I believe in. In repeating myself, I have again showed you the biblical basis of my faith. If you cannot refute it, then consider that in rejecting it you may indeed be rejecting the truth about the Lord.

 

[Tong2020]

So, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost?

Yes. However that does not mean that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Scriptures does not teach that.

If there is one Lord, and Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is the Father. Because the Father is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). In light of that, can you say Jesus is the Lord? I tell you verily that you cannot do so except ye have the Holy Ghost indwelling you. But I would like an answer from you.

There is one Lord, and Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is God. While Jesus is God, He is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. He is the Son, in whom dwells the Father and the Holy Spirit.

However, you said that I had no biblical basis for what I believe in. In repeating myself, I have again showed you the biblical basis of my faith. If you cannot refute it, then consider that in rejecting it you may indeed be rejecting the truth about the Lord.

I said you are going beyond what is revealed in scriptures. In repeating yourself, you have shown yourself to not put up a refutation of what I say against what you teach there, which is only your own conclusion coming from and using your human wisdom and reasoning, but beyond what is revealed in scriptures. And to your desire to support your teaching, you even claim to be of a prophecy or as one prophesied, something really of serious concern.

Again, I'd say, you need to go by Scripture, not your thinking. Believe what has been revealed in scriptures, not go beyond what is revealed, and make not your own conclusion what to believe.

Tong
R1010

 

[Cooper]

Yes. However that does not mean that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Scriptures does not teach that.

There is one Lord, and Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is God. While Jesus is God, He is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. He is the Son, in whom dwells the Father and the Holy Spirit.

I said you are going beyond what is revealed in scriptures. In repeating yourself, you have shown yourself to not put up a refutation of what I say against what you teach there, which is only your own conclusion coming from and using your human wisdom and reasoning, but beyond what is revealed in scriptures. And to your desire to support your teaching, you even claim to be of a prophecy or as one prophesied, something really of serious concern.

Again, I'd say, you need to go by Scripture, not your thinking. Believe what has been revealed in scriptures, not go beyond what is revealed, and make not your own conclusion what to believe.

Tong
R1010

You just don't get how the Spirit of the Father was in the flesh of the Son, resulting in them being One.
.

 

[JunChosen]

You just don't get how the Spirit of the Father was in the flesh of the Son, resulting in their oneness.
.

I agree with @Tong.

When Jesus was being baptized at the River Jordan, the Father's voice was heard and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove on Jesus, a picture of the Trinity. Jesus was not speaking to Himself nor did He descend on Himself as a dove.

In the beginning, God (Elohim, a plural Hebrew word to mean three or more) created the heaven and the earth, suggesting at least three persons created the Universe.

When Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17, He was NOT praying to Himself. ETC...,etc...,etc.

As @Tong have said, do not add or subtract from the word of God, except those that are revealed!

You are teaching heresy when you teach the doctrine of "oneness" taught by @101.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Cooper]

I agree with @Tong.

When Jesus was being baptized at the River Jordan, the Father's voice was heard and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove on Jesus, a picture of the Trinity. Jesus was not speaking to Himself nor did He descend on Himself as a dove.

In the beginning, God (Elohim, a plural Hebrew word to mean three or more) created the heaven and the earth, suggesting at least three persons created the Universe.

When Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17, He was NOT praying to Himself. ETC...,etc...,etc.

As @Tong have said, do not add or subtract from the word of God, except those that are revealed!

You are teaching heresy when you teach the doctrine of "oneness" taught by @101.

To God Be The Glory

Thank you for confirming the three members of the Trinity when you remind us of Christ's baptism in the River Jordan.

Thank you for confirming the word Elohim means three or more.

Thank you for reminding us that when Jesus prayed, he was praying to another member of the Trinity.

There is no heresy in teaching that God is ONE, The Bible clearly says so. You contradict yourself when you admit the word Elohim means three or more, which is evidence of a tripartite God. The heresy comes from these who deny the teaching of Jesus who clearly said the Father dwelt in him, and He and the Father are One, see below:

Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh_14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.

What I teach is the full Gospel. Others deny the deity Jesus which is heresy. Oneness is another heresy that denies the co-existence of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes. However that does not mean that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Scriptures does not teach that.

The scriptures teach that all the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus Christ, in bodily form (Colossians 2:9).

There is one Lord, and Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is God. While Jesus is God, He is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. He is the Son, in whom dwells the Father and the Holy Spirit.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5)...Do you deny that the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth? (see Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). No one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). Now we know that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). So, the next thing you are going to have to do is to accuse the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of truth) of lying when He says through a believer that Jesus is the Lord. And that is practically the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Do you believe that two Spirits dwell in the Person of Jesus Christ? For it is written that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4). Yet both the Father and the Holy Ghost are identified in scripture as being a Spirit (John 4:23-24, John 7:39).

I do agree with you that in a certain sense, Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Ghost. He is distinct from them because of the hypostatic union. But there is another sense in which He is the Father and the Holy Ghost. For the Spirit dwelling in Jesus Christ is that one Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree with @Tong.

When Jesus was being baptized at the River Jordan, the Father's voice was heard and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove on Jesus, a picture of the Trinity. Jesus was not speaking to Himself nor did He descend on Himself as a dove.

In the beginning, God (Elohim, a plural Hebrew word to mean three or more) created the heaven and the earth, suggesting at least three persons created the Universe.

When Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17, He was NOT praying to Himself. ETC...,etc...,etc.

As @Tong have said, do not add or subtract from the word of God, except those that are revealed!

You are teaching heresy when you teach the doctrine of "oneness" taught by @101.

To God Be The Glory

The Father inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15) and as such, in the descending He could not cease to dwell in eternity; for whatever is dwelling in eternity is there eternally.

So, Jesus both went forward and stayed behind in eternity when He incarnated as the Son.

The voice of the Father, therefore, that spoke at Jesus' baptism, was the preincarnate Jesus.

Now, when Jesus died on the Cross, see Luke 23:46 for what He said.

He released His Spirit back to the Father.

And His Spirit was the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

When He gave up the Ghost, the Holy Ghost became the title of the Father as He had lived a human life. The same Spirit, different experience. And also, the Holy Ghost does indeed proceed from the Father. But they are the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

So then, the Holy Ghost who descended at Jesus' baptism like a dove was the Father and the Spirit of Jesus.

For the Holy Ghost, from Luke 23:46, also ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10) and also reserves the right to enter into any place in time to dwell in Old Testament prophets (1 Peter 1:11) and New Testament saints (2 timothy 1:14), in all of His fulness (1 Corinthians 6:17, Ephesians 3:19).

And He is able also to descend very easily to the time and place of Jesus' baptism.