How Evil Are Humans?

[quietthinker]

Who was it that killed Uzzah who died trying to stop the ark from falling?

Did God not bring judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah?

Who killed Ananias and Sapphira in the book of Acts?

God uses people to bring judgement but it is His will

I suppose you believe God did all those things attributed to him?

A point to think about.....how is it the Philistines never dropped dead after they stole it, looked at it and further, put it into their temple?

People judge themselves and others. God is not an accuser. See Zechariah 3:1-5

....an aside; confusing prediction with causation messes with everything.
example....I can accurately predict you will be dead in a hundred years, does that mean I caused your death?

 

[quietthinker]

Yes but it’s not about killing people it’s about wiping out evil before it spreads more. It’s like a cop shooting a gunman before he kills innocent people

if thats the principle God operates by then why didn't he get rid of Lucifer right from the outset?
.....or are men smarter than God in figuring the best solution?

 

[Marty fox]

I suppose you believe God did all those things attributed to him?

A point to think about.....how is it the Philistines never dropped dead after they stole it, looked at it and further, put it into their temple?

People judge themselves and others. God is not an accuser. See Zechariah 3:1-5

....an aside; confusing prediction with causation messes with everything.
example....I can accurately predict you will be dead in a hundred years, does that mean I caused your death?

Of course not why would predicting anything make you responsible of it I don’t even understand why you even say that

The difference with the philistines and Uzzah is that Uzzah new better disobeyed and doubted God. There is more responsibility on Gods people

You are on dangerous ground here rejecting what the bible says because you don’t understand the whole situation and don,t understand the difference from God being a murderer and Gods judgement

If you can reject this in the bible where does it stop you can the justify any belief and how can anyone debate and reason with you without the authority of the bible?

Romans 11:34 confirms this, saying, “Who has known the mind of the LORD ? Or who has been his counselor? ” 1 Corinthians 2:11 says, “ For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God . ”

 

[Marty fox]

if thats the principle God operates by then why didn't he get rid of Lucifer right from the outset?
.....or are men smarter than God in figuring the best solution?

Because God didn’t we all have free will and it was part of Gods plan to use lucifer but don’t give satan to much credit he is only one being who can only be in one place at one time men are evil all on their own

 

[Jack]

if thats the principle God operates by then why didn't he get rid of Lucifer right from the outset?
.....or are men smarter than God in figuring the best solution?

Why are you EVADING what the Bible says?

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

 

[Marty fox]

You're totally evading what the Bible says.

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Amen the bible is authority and without the whole bible we can not understand our just loving and merciful Father. we Can’t debate or reason with other Christians without the authority of the whole entire Bible

 

[Jack]

Amen the bible is authority and without the whole bible we can not understand our just loving and merciful Father. we Can’t debate or reason with other Christians without the authority of the whole entire Bible

Jesus clearly confirmed the Genesis Flood and burning Sodom accounts. Some just don't like God of the Bible but still call themselves 'Christians'. Satan is busy!

 

[Marty fox]

Jesus clearly confirmed the Genesis Flood and burning Sodom accounts. Some just don't like God of the Bible but still call themselves 'Christians'. Satan is busy!

Yes true it confirms my post see post #12

 

[quietthinker]

Of course not why would predicting anything make you responsible of it I don’t even understand why you even say that

I am saying it because of your quoted texts in post #33 ....below

Revelation 17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

The difference with the philistines and Uzzah is that Uzzah new better disobeyed and doubted God. There is more responsibility on Gods people

then I suppose all Christians who know better should be dead?

You are on dangerous ground here rejecting what the bible says because you don’t understand the whole situation and don,t understand the difference from God being a murderer and Gods judgement

God's judgement is forgiveness. We are the ones who don't forgive and we want God to follow suit.....surely that is dangerous ground?

If you can reject this in the bible where does it stop you can the justify any belief and how can anyone debate and reason with you without the authority of the bible?

The writers of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit yet they used their own words and cultural understanding to interpret that inspiration. Moses while still in Egypt was inspired to liberate his people yet he thought murder would be the route because thats how problems were solved in Pharaoh's Egypt.... he was wrong. Isaiah wrote magnificent things....things he didn't understand under inspiration but he also thought both good and bad emanate from God, that was accepted cultural view.....he was wrong.

Jesus is the final word on God. Jesus is the only one who has seen and knows the Father intimately

. We interpret the bible through and by Jesus, that's where we stop.

We read this in Hebrews 1
'In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

 

[Jack]

We interpret the bible through and by Jesus, that's where we stop.

We read this in Hebrews 1
'In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

YOUR "interpretations" defy our Christian Bible. Why do you profess to be Christian?

 

[quietthinker]

Why are you EVADING what the Bible says?

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Noah told the antediluvians a flood was coming. He told them so they too could get into the Ark he was building. It was God who inspired him to build the Ark as a place of safety.

The deluge was probably the fiddling of the environment (weather patterns) by those highly intelligent and capable people who lived for nearly a thousand years and they lost control. They probably fiddled with the genetics of animals and men, creating monsters like the dinosaurs and who knows what else......none of which went into the Ark by the way.
They created their own destruction the which God was willing to rescue them from but they would not. They are an example of what we are on the cusp of doing to the planet at present. We are literally a few buttons from self annihilation.

There is more to say about the angels who sinned also. Do we assume that their rebellion happened over a weekend? No, it could have been in process for eons with Lucifer hiding his intent. Do we also assume that God made no effort to counter Lucifers misrepresentations? God did his uttermost.....like I said, there is more to say on this.

Tar pits are still found around the area of where Sodom and Gomorrah were....and further indications of volcanic activity.

You ask me why am I evading what the Bible says. I am not evading Jack, I am doing my darnedest to understand the apparent glaring inconsistencies in its records. This can only be done if there is self honesty and the courage to find out why the inconsistencies exist.

If one goes down the route of denial one lives in delusion.

 

[quietthinker]

YOUR "interpretations" defy our Christian Bible. Why do you profess to be Christian?

Your opinions defy the Christian Bible. It is because of God being misrepresented by those claiming to be his followers that God gets a bad rap out there in the World.

Those who murdered Jesus claimed to be the guardians of the scriptures also. They used the scripture to justify his killing.

 

[Jack]

Noah told the antediluvians a flood was coming. He told them so they too could get into the Ark he was building. It was God who inspired him to build the Ark as a place of safety.

The deluge was probably the fiddling of the environment (weather patterns) by those highly intelligent and capable people who lived for nearly a thousand years and they lost control. They probably fiddled with the genetics of animals and men, creating monsters like the dinosaurs and who knows what else......none of which went into the Ark by the way.
They created their own destruction the which God was willing to rescue them from but they would not. They are an example of what we are on the cusp of doing to the planet at present. We are literally a few buttons from self annihilation.

There is more to say about the angels who sinned also. Do we assume that their rebellion happened over a weekend? No, it could have been in process for eons with Lucifer hiding his intent. Do we also assume that God made no effort to counter Lucifers misrepresentations? God did his uttermost.....like I said, there is more to say on this.

Tar pits are still found around the area of where Sodom and Gomorrah were....and further indications of volcanic activity.

You ask me why am I evading what the Bible says. I am not evading Jack, I am doing my darnedest to understand the apparent glaring inconsistencies in its records. This can only be done if there is self honesty and the courage to find out why the inconsistencies exist.

If one goes down the route of denial one lives in delusion.

No Scripture?

 

[Jack]

Your opinions defy the Christian Bible. It is because of God being misrepresented by those claiming to be his followers that God gets a bad rap out there in the World.

I quoted Scripture that you totally evaded. Jesus agreed!

Those who murdered Jesus claimed to be the guardians of the scriptures also. They used the scripture to justify his killing.

Now you believe the Bible? lol

Make up your mind.

 

[Jack]

Pay attention to Jesus quietthinker!

Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[quietthinker]

Pay attention to Jesus quietthinker!

Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Do you know what 'prediction does not equal causation' means Jack?

 

[Jack]

Do you know what 'prediction does not equal causation' means Jack?

I know you're avoiding what Jesus said, just like Satan.

 

[Zao is life]

Humans are as evil as their father.
​

"And many of them said, He has a demon and is insane. Why do you hear him?"

-- John 10:20.
​

"You do the deeds of your father.

Then they said to Him, We are not born of fornication; we have one father, even God.

​

Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me.

You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, you do not believe Me."

-- John 8:41-42, 44-45.

Those were Jews in the 1st century who believed God was their Father because they were the seed of Abraham. But they were false accusers, and the words that came out of their mouths betrayed who they truly were.

Likewise with many Christians today. The fruit of their mouths betrays them - betrays who their father is while, like little gods judging the thoughts and intents of the hearts of others, they falsely accuse, insult, malign and slur other Christians.

Their father, a liar and the father of lies, is the accuser of the brethren, who, because he cannot accuse them himself before God any more, roams around seeking willing servants, all to often finding them among those who call God their Father, and Jesus their Lord.
​

This is the experience of all Jesus' followers who know that those who do not believe in Jesus are not part of God's chosen nation - and it comes all too often out of the mouths of those who claim they have God as their Father and Jesus as their Lord, who falsely accuse them of being Jew-haters.

Terrorists murdering Jews merely because they are Jews are evil, and their actions on 10/7 were pure evil. Depraved beyond description.
​

People who hate Jews merely because they are Jews, but without committing murder have the same father as Christians who malign and slur other Christians as Jew-haters merely because those other Christians know that someone who does not believe in Jesus, is not part of God's chosen nation.

They all have the same father.

Whether by their words while they malign and falsely accuse or whether by their actions, humans are as evil as their father.​

 

[Marty fox]

Noah told the antediluvians a flood was coming. He told them so they too could get into the Ark he was building. It was God who inspired him to build the Ark as a place of safety.

The deluge was probably the fiddling of the environment (weather patterns) by those highly intelligent and capable people who lived for nearly a thousand years and they lost control. They probably fiddled with the genetics of animals and men, creating monsters like the dinosaurs and who knows what else......none of which went into the Ark by the way.
They created their own destruction the which God was willing to rescue them from but they would not. They are an example of what we are on the cusp of doing to the planet at present. We are literally a few buttons from self annihilation.

There is more to say about the angels who sinned also. Do we assume that their rebellion happened over a weekend? No, it could have been in process for eons with Lucifer hiding his intent. Do we also assume that God made no effort to counter Lucifers misrepresentations? God did his uttermost.....like I said, there is more to say on this.

Tar pits are still found around the area of where Sodom and Gomorrah were....and further indications of volcanic activity.

You ask me why am I evading what the Bible says. I am not evading Jack, I am doing my darnedest to understand the apparent glaring inconsistencies in its records. This can only be done if there is self honesty and the courage to find out why the inconsistencies exist.

If one goes down the route of denial one lives in delusion.

Why do you assume that dinosaurs weren't on the ark?

You are evading what the bible says Jack has asked and showed you more than once that the New Testament confirmed what Moses wrote and you keep on avoiding it so here it is once again do you believe that the New Testament is wrong?

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

 

[Marty fox]

Do you know what 'prediction does not equal causation' means Jack?

What do you think "the coming of the son of man means?"