How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

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CoreIssue

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No, you cannot believe unless first born again.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)

I add
1 Corinthians 2:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Receiving and accepting are two very different things and meanings.

Good old KJV again.
 
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Dave L

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I add
1 Corinthians 2:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Receiving and accepting are two very different things and meanings.

Good old KJV again.
I received a pat on the back for having a good sales day.
 
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Dave L

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Yep, Calvinism.

That says nothing about being able to believe or repent.

The desire for God is in this from birth.

We do not have to understand with clarity to know he is there and we need him.
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” (Acts 11:18) (KJV 1900)
 

CoreIssue

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“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” (Acts 11:18) (KJV 1900)

Okay, that makes it very clear you do not believe in free will.

The Bible makes it clear the ability of everyone to come to God has always existed.

You trying to spend it into the Calvinistic approach God only allows his chosen to have certain things and everybody else goes to hell.

No need to ask you more made it clear
 
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Nancy

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“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22) (KJV 1900)
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,” (Galatians 5:22) (NET)

There IS a significant difference between the two words! So why is it used interchangeably?? And, I do not know why it even bothers me!!! Lol.
 
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Dave L

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There IS a significant difference between the two words! So why is it used interchangeably?? And, I do not know why it even bothers me!!! Lol.
Either way, faith/faithfulness are interchangeable terms for the same Greek word.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith [faithfulness]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:8–10) (KJV 1900)

πίστις, εως, ἡ (Hes., Hdt.+; ranging in meaning from subjective confidence to objective basis for confidence).
① that which evokes trust and faith
ⓐ the state of being someone in whom confidence can be placed, faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 818). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Without holiness no none shall see the Lord. So faithfulness is part of your salvation gift.
 
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Dave L

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Admit you ridiculed the persoon. Quit ducking & weaving.
It depends on your starting point. If you drag the pagan notion of free will into scripture, you will read and understand it that way.

If you begin with scripture, and understand what it says about free will, that will provide an entirely different interpretation. Does the world depend on free will? Yes, every law is based on it so you naturally assume scripture is too, but it isn't.
 
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Dave L

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Okay, that makes it very clear you do not believe in free will.

The Bible makes it clear the ability of everyone to come to God has always existed.

You trying to spend it into the Calvinistic approach God only allows his chosen to have certain things and everybody else goes to hell.

No need to ask you more made it clear
You are free to bench press 300# but can you? People are free to keep the law but can they? If there is none righteous, how did any ever apply free will and come to God? If as you say everyone can save themselves by simply willing it, we don't need Jesus to save us. do we?
 
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Dave L

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I ask again, where is free will for salvation in your thinking?
It's because we are bound by sin that we need Christ to save us.
“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [slave] of sin.” (John 8:34) (KJV 1900)
 

farouk

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It's because we are bound by sin that we need Christ to save us.
“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [slave] of sin.” (John 8:34) (KJV 1900)
It kind of begs the question: If Christ by faith has delivered me from my sin, why oh why would I yearn to go back willfully to the bondage of so called free will?
 
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CoreIssue

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You are free to bench press 300# but can you? People are free to keep the law but can they? If there is none righteous, how did any ever apply free will and come to God? If as you say everyone can save themselves by simply willing it, we don't need Jesus to save us. do we?

No one can say themselves. But Christ will save them if they repent of their own free will.

But you deny we have free will.

That is Calvinism.
 
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Dave L

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No one can say themselves. But Christ will save them if they repent of their own free will.

But you deny we have free will.

That is Calvinism.
You are teaching salvation by works. If a person is born again, all they want to do is repent and live a holy life.
 

CoreIssue

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It's because we are bound by sin that we need Christ to save us.
“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [slave] of sin.” (
No one can say themselves. But Christ will save them if they repent of their own free will.

But you deny we have free will.

That is Calvinism.
It's because we are bound by sin that we need Christ to save us.
“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [slave] of sin.” (John 8:34) (KJV 1900)

:34) (KJV 1900)

Slaves can escape.
 
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Dave L

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Slaves can escape.
Find something in the flesh that would choose Christ:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21) (KJV 1900)

Find something in the Spirit that would want to follow Satan:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:22–24) (KJV 1900)
 

CoreIssue

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You are teaching salvation by works. If a person is born again, all they want to do is repent and live a holy life.
Find something in the flesh that would choose Christ:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21) (KJV 1900)

Find something in the Spirit that would want to follow Satan:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:22–24) (KJV 1900)

Our flesh does not think. Our spirits do.

We function through our brains which is a meeting ground of fleshly desires and spiritual want.

It is a war, as the Bible says, and one we will fight until we leave this flesh.

You are trying to say we are governed totally by our flesh, which is false.

No one would ever be saved if that was true.

By your formula, which is Calvinism, God controls us. He either leaves us to our flesh or he inserts new programming into our brains to do as he wishes.

That is not free will, it is robots.
 
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Dave L

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Our flesh does not think. Our spirits do.

We function through our brains which is a meeting ground of fleshly desires and spiritual want.

It is a war, as the Bible says, and one we will fight until we leave this flesh.

You are trying to say we are governed totally by our flesh, which is false.

No one would ever be saved if that was true.

By your formula, which is Calvinism, God controls us. He either leaves us to our flesh or he inserts new programming into our brains to do as he wishes.

That is not free will, it is robots.
Our flesh is our mind. It thinks all the wrong things it could ever want to.