How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[logabe]

The new covenant is to the houses of Judah and Israel. Not Gentiles or Church.

The new covenant is not in force yet. It is to the physical houses of Israel and Judah.

In the prophecies there is no mention of Gentiles.

Revelations after the rapture has zero mention of Church or Gentiles. But it most assuredly deals with the 12 tribes of Israel (which is very genetic and physical), the temple, Israel and Jerusalem, all physical.

So who was Paul talking to in Galatians 3: 26-29?

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in … Christ Jesus.

29 And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the Promise.

Were the Galatians the 12 tribes of Israel? If it didn't pertain to the Galatians why would Paul say such a thing and give these people false hope?

 

[Helen]

When Satan 'fell from heaven' and took 1/3 with him...did they have freewill or not?!

Obviously it was a choice that they were free to make.
Man is no less...man was created FREE to choose.

But, we know the law of sowing and reaping always comes into play also. As it did for Satan, Adam etc...

Deut 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may 'live'..."

Adam still 'lived' after the fall, but there are many levels of 'life'!!
What they lost was 'life to the full'.
The invitation is still out there for us. ( bbyrd009's favourite scripture...> take up 'your' cross and experience My life, to the full.' )

 

[Dave L]

When Satan 'fell from heaven' and took 1/3 with him...did they have freewill or not?!

Obviously it was a choice that they were free to make.
Man is no less...man was created FREE to choose.

But, we know the law of sowing and reaping always comes into play also. As it did for Satan, Adam etc...

Deut 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may 'live'..."

Adam still 'lived' after the fall, but there are many levels of 'life'!!
What they lost was 'life to the full'.
The invitation is still out there for us. ( bbyrd009's favourite scripture...> take up 'your' cross and experience My life, to the full.' )

If you look further into it, God controls our choices through the reasons we base them on. God remains sovereign and we freely chose what we want.

 

[CoreIssue]

So who was Paul talking to in Galatians 3: 26-29?

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in … Christ Jesus.

29 And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the Promise.

Were the Galatians the 12 tribes of Israel? If it didn't pertain to the Galatians why would Paul say such a thing and give these people false hope?

He is talking to the church at Galatia about spiritual things, not physical. How could you miss that?

 

[logabe]

He is talking to the church at Galatia about spiritual things, not physical. How could you miss that?

That's my point... I'm an Israelite by the spirit. An Israelite isn't one by the flesh, but a true Israelite is by the spirit. Just as Paul said in Romans 9:24-26,
24 Even us, whom He also called, not from among the Jews only, but also from among Gentiles
25 As He says also in Hosea, “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people’, and her who was not beloved, ‘Beloved’. 26 And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ there they shall be called sons of the living God.”

It's not about genetics anymore like in the Old Covenant, but it is about Isaac. Romans 9:8 says,

8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

It's time to get excited!!!

 

[justbyfaith]

The new covenant is to the houses of Judah and Israel. Not Gentiles or Church.

"Covenant" and "Testament" are basically synonyms in scripture.

So what you are saying is that the New Testament doesn't apply to Gentiles.

I don't buy that for a second.

If you want scripture, try Ephesians 3:6.

 

[Nancy]

Why would God even WANT to control us?? I do not buy it. I can see how He uses circumstances to His advantage but, not controlling our choices and acts like a puppet!

 

[Dave L]

Why would God even WANT to control us?? I do not buy it. I can see how He uses circumstances to His advantage but, not controlling our choices and acts like a puppet!

Our will only reacts. And if all we have are random happenings, we can end up anywhere. But God molds and shapes our destinies by the reasons he sends for us to base our choices on.

 

[justbyfaith]

Our will only reacts. And if all we have are random happenings, we can end up anywhere. But God molds and shapes our destinies by the reasons he sends for us to base our choices on.

Some circumstances are operated by the "other guy". And these mix with God's operations to create operations that are basically neutral...which amount to random happenings...see Ecclesiastes 9:11.

 

[Nancy]

Our will only reacts. And if all we have are random happenings, we can end up anywhere. But God molds and shapes our destinies by the reasons he sends for us to base our choices on.

"random happenings" Can you not believe in a God big enough to have already seen the choices of men from beginning to end (all the random happenings), and used each and every one of those free choice events or "happenings" to His and our benefit?

 

[CoreIssue]

"Covenant" and "Testament" are basically synonyms in scripture.

So what you are saying is that the New Testament doesn't apply to Gentiles.

I don't buy that for a second.

If you want scripture, try Ephesians 3:6.

Testament also means testify.

Most assuredly is for Jews and Gentiles.

But it is not a covenant, it is his promise, education and gospel.

And don't say there always has to be a covenant. There was none before Mosaic covenant.

 

[justbyfaith]

The point being that the New Covenant is not only for the Jewish people...Ephesians 3:6.

There were actually quite a few covenants before the Mosaic one. The Abrahamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, even the Adamic Covenant in Genesis 3:15

 

[CoreIssue]

The point being that the New Covenant is not only for the Jewish people...Ephesians 3:6.

There were actually quite a few covenants before the Mosaic one. The Abrahamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, even the Adamic Covenant in Genesis 3:15

And there are some more. But, they are not for salvation and not to everyone.

 

[CoreIssue]

If you look further into it, God controls our choices through the reasons we base them on. God remains sovereign and we freely chose what we want.

He influences does not control.

 

[justbyfaith]

Therefore the New Covenant, spoken of in Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:4, and Romans 8:7; also Romans 5:5 with Romans 13:8-10 & 1 John 5:3 & 2 John 1:6 (being the New Testament);

Is a covenant that applies to Gentiles and not just Jews.

Therefore, as New Covenant Gentiles, we can and do have the law of the Lord written on our hearts and in our minds. It is also fulfilled in us, and we are subject to it in our minds because we are led by the indwelling love of the Lord to obey it.

 

[justbyfaith]

And there are some more. But, they are not for salvation and not to everyone.

Neither was the Mosaic covenant for salvation.

 

[OzSpen]

You believe because God saved you.

Dave,

Are you supporting/promoting a Calvinistic view of salvation?

Does that mean God damned the rest of humanity and they have no hope of responding to the Gospel message preached?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

A person must already believe if they act on it.

What does that mean?

 

[Enoch111]

...even the Adamic Covenant in Genesis 3:15

You are correct overall, but one would be hard pressed to find a covenant is Genesis 1-3. A STEWARDSHIP would be more accurate, since Adam was given the stewardship of all creatures as well as the Garden of Eden. And he blew it.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are correct overall, but one would be hard pressed to find a covenant is Genesis 1-3. A STEWARDSHIP would be more accurate, since Adam was given the stewardship of all creatures as well as the Garden of Eden. And he blew it.

It (Genesis 3:15) technically wasn't a covenant; but it was a promise of Messiah, which can be construed as being like a covenant from a certain perspective.