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Featured How Important Truth?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by brakelite, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    Looked at the link and still didn't understand it.
     
  2. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Quite true, which is why there is a resurrection of the wicked at the end of the millennium. They will be weeping and gnashing their teeth as they stand outside the New Jerusalem and can see their loved ones inside, and realise their fate and their lives are coming to a painful and fearful end...destroyed by fire from heaven that will engulf everything on the planet ...those fires will affect sinners dependant on their works...many stripes for the truly evil, not so many for the less obnoxious. But their end will eventually come...and there will be weeping and gnashing aplenty.
     
  3. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Tin foil hat wearers, are all we. LOL Isn't it amazing that the same "intellectuals" who scoffed at those of us in the 80's who talked about "black helicopters" - until the feds finally admitted to them - and scoffed at those of us who warned that secret Luciferian society members are infiltrated in the halls of governments everywhere and are working to bring about a NWO for Lucifer - are now talking about the "Deep State" with an heir of "intellectualism" that they refused to afford us tin foil hat people in the past? Hypocritical, to say the least. Yes, Historicism is the only consistent, air tight eschatological interpretation that makes sense, and Brakelite is definitely one of the few voices here that is spot on accurate when it comes to Bible prophecy. I myself have shredded many challenges to Historicism while slicing and dicing Jesuit Futurism's "last seven years of tribulation Antichrist", but stubborn pride prevents most people from admitting that Jesuit Futurism just doesn't stand the test of Biblical scrutiny.

    For instance, Jesuit Futurists argue that when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" He will sneak into town and sneak out with the saints in a "Secret Rapture" - they've been making movies about this for years - followed by a 7 year period of tribulation where some evil dude will arise, sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem called "the temple of God" where the animal sacrifices conducted therein will be an official, national rejection of the Lamb of God and a corporate middle finger in the face of God - which actions would NEVER make such a temple a "temple of God" - where the evil dude will sit and make a peace treaty between the Arabs and Jews, yada, yada, yada...

    Then I show where Peter says that the day when the Lord comes as a "thief in the night", the Earth will look like a bazillion nukes have gone off, where even the very "elements will melt with fervent heat" - and that there cannot possibly be any 7 last years of anything and certainly no people running around trying to figure out what happened to all the Christians. But, alas, people have their reasons for holding on to such nonsense: they get a second chance to get right with God during the "tribulation" if they miss the Secret Rapture; or they trust the Secret Rapture will whisk them away from all the suffering in what Jesus calls the "time of trouble"; or they can keep denying that the papal Antichrist in Rome changed God's law because that would mean God's law is still applicable to the Christian life, etc.

    But, the great Protestant Reformers knew exactly who the Antichrist is. The great Charles Haddon Spurgeon once wrote:

    "It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Anticrhsit is, no sane man ought to raise the question. If it be not the popery in the church of Rome...there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name."
     
  4. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    An event? Past, present or future? If future does that mean Abraham is somewhere where wicked people can still talk to him? That they can see each other? That there are people in Abraham's bosom? Is not this merely a parable based on current Jewish superstition at the time?
    As you know the word 'hell', which to most people means a literal burning place of torture, was used in translating all three of the above. Yet you also know that all three have quite different meanings, and the contexts in which they are used, also different. Greek, as well as Hebrew superstitions entered into the mix of translation...tartarus was never intended by Peter to describe a place, but a state of being, otherwise we must acknowledge Peter's depiction of Greek mythology as being a basis for Bible truth.
    Gehenna as has been mentioned, had a another contextual time and place, and was used as an analogy by Christ to depict destruction and abhorrence held for sinners in the sight of heaven. Hades, another Greek word, translated as hell from the Septuagint, in Hebrew scripture is grave. Now I have no doubt that using more scholarly language and detail, you may be able to refute this my understanding, but herein is my current belief. Not just based on scripture, but also because of my appreciation of God's character and my understanding of His purposes to get completely rid of all sin from His universe, rather than deliberately perpetuate something that is an abomination to Him, when He has all the power in the universe to wipe it out altogether...and those who choose to cleave to it.
     
  5. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Discussing historicism today @Phoneman777 and @Soverign Grace . Historicists know precisely where we are in the prophetic timeline...right down to the very verse. Taking the 7 seals in an historicist context, the history of God's people from the time of John to the second coming, we believe and are sure we are in between verses 13 and 14 of the 6th seal...verse 14 for example being the second coming...verse 13 having already taken place in the mid to late 19th century. Revelation chapter 7 describes that gap between verses 13 and 14, and chapter 8:1 , the 7th seal, concludes the second coming.
    Futurists on the other hand have not a clue where they are. With everything still future, the second coming could be a 1000 years away...while many claim "the next event is the rapture...be ready", they have no real prophetic or historical or current event evidence to confirm that. It is all imaginary and wishful thinking. Particularly as phoneman above proved, there can be no "secret rapture". The next event is the mark of the beast...and the great majority of Christians and the world will welcome it as a solution to all the worlds ills...they fail to recognise the mark, because they deny any recognition of the beast. Thus deception will rule even the church...except for the elect who being wise, the day will not come upon them as a thief.
     
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  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    The Freemasons, Illuminati, and others are working out the Luciferian plan to decieve the nations, and when the world is upside down and "the multitudes (are) disillusioned with Christianity" because the expected Secret Rapture which was supposed to spare them from the chaos, the hope to which they've clung which was the "secret rapture" life line they expected God to drop down to them just before the chaos erupted was never anything more than ropes of sand --- they fully unprepared to resist the last great deception of Lucifer will embrace him as he impersonates the Second Coming of Jesus, and follow his commands to seek and destroy the "source of God's anger and bring an end to His wrath on the Earth" - the Christian fundamentalists who refuse to go along with the majority in breaking God's law in order to follow "the commandments of men" which will be vain worship in His sight.
     
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  7. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @OzSpen,

    There is no consciousness in death. Man does not have an immortal soul, as you can see from such verses as, '... the soul that sinneth it shall surely die'. God only has immortality.

    There is no life apart from resurrection. The promise to believers is, 'life through His Name'. Resurrection life. That awaits a day of God's choosing.

    The wages of sin is DEATH, and not hell, for hell is just the grave, where the dead are 'hidden away', which is the original meaning of the middle English word, 'Hell'.
    Tradition has turned the truth of God concerning this into a lie, perpetuating Satan's original lie, 'Thou shalt not surely die'. He is the Father of lies.

    The story of the rich man and Lazarus, was a story told by the Lord Jesus Christ, to the Pharisees, whose doctrine He desired to expose for the hypocrisy it was. They believed that the dead could communicate with the living, Abraham's bosom was also part of their doctrine, and they would excuse their lack of care for the poor, by stating that the poor would receive their reward in the life to come. This story was never intended to be taken and used as a proof text for hell and eternal conscious punishment.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Soverign Grace,

    In order to understand the TRUTH of where the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will take place, by whom and why, it is necessary to read all the passages where it is spoken of in Scripture, take note of all that is said, by whom, to whom, at what time, and the context within which it comes.

    I have looked up the passages for you to read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

    Weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.’

    Matthew 8:5-13 (v.12) – ‘ The Centurion’ – ‘outer darkness’
    Matthew 13:36-43 (v.42) - ‘The weeds’ – ‘furnace of fire’
    Matthew 13:47-50 (v.50) – ‘The dragnet’ – ‘furnace of fire’
    Matthew 22:1-14 (v.13) - ‘The wedding feast’ – ‘outer darkness’
    Matthew 24:36-51 (v.51) - ‘That day/hour?’ – ‘portion of the hypocrites’
    Matthew 25:14-30 (v.30) – The Talents’ – ‘outer darkness’
    Luke 13:22-30 (v.28) - The Narrow Door’ – ‘thrust out of the Kingdom’

    ‘Outer darkness’ - Mat 8:12, Mat 22:13, Mat 25:30
    ‘Furnace of fire’ – Mat 13:42,50 (only two occurrences of the phrase)
    ‘The portion of the hypocrites’ = ‘Gehenna’ (Matthew 23:15)
    ‘Thrust out of the Kingdom’ = ‘outer darkness’

    The furnace of fire’, comes only in ‘The Parable of the Weeds’ and ‘The Parable of the Dragnet.
    Outer Darkness’, is found following the record of the healing of the Centurion’s daughter, when contrasting his faith with that of Israel. Also at the end of ‘The Wedding Feast’ when the man had entered without the designated wedding garments. At the end of ‘The Parable of the Talents’.

    Hypocrites: Matthew 14:3-9; Matthew 23:13-15 (incomplete study)

    * This comes within the context of end-time judgement, following resurrection. There is no life apart from resurrection.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    It's link to an episode of SP that illuminates the concept of why we don't see evil punished, but tbh for you I would prolly suggest something else anyway, simply bc it prolly isn't speaking your language, meant for another audience. Surely a lesson you have already learned anyway
     
  10. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I know a fair amount of the bible but I'm just beginning to learn about Revelations when I was piecing together what I saw happening and the New World Order. I had ordered several books on it years back but never read them. I've heard of the millennium but don't know the verse in the bible referring to it. I just read that there is nothing in the bible about "the rapture." That surprised me because I do recall it being talked about in church.
     
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  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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  12. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I like Spurgeon - I like the old-time writers who seem to have a better grasp on things. I was looked at askance when I tried talking to several pastors at bible study. One told me I'd better watch what I read online. I felt really foolish and slunk out of there. So I know about the "tin-foil hats" accusations. I went home and re-read some things and I realized that I wasn't misled, they just didn't know about it. You're lucky you knew all that in the 80's! I'm just learning about it. I was so glad to meet several people online who knew about it here because God had started opening up my eyes to what was really happening. I'm still on the fence about President Trump though, but I 99% believe that he's in on it. I don't think we're going to get a wall. In fact, I have a sickening feeling that something is going to happen soon - either a nuclear attack or something else.

    I was reading that the Russians have been building huge nuclear fallout shelters and hiding it from Americans. I also watched a show on doomsday preppers and I'm shocked to see that so many people believe there is going to be a collapse. All the techs in Silicon Valley bought land in New Zealand. I don't know why they would think that would be safe. I was actually thinking of moving and talked to a guy who was developing Panama. I think something evil is afoot. I can't shake the feeling. I think there is going to be some kind of nuclear attack.

    I just read that there is nothing in the bible about the "Rapture." What are Jesuit Futurists? I learned about the Jesuits from material Brakelite shared, and learned about their evil. I'm still fuzzy on some things and have to read up on it more.
     
  13. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Soverign Grace,

    Without looking it up, I believe that the word millennium is not in Scripture SG, it simply stands for a period of 1,000 years. That significant 1,000 year period can be found in such Scriptures as Revelation 20. It is a period in which the Overcomers of the tribulation period, and others, such as the Twelve Disciples will live and reign with Christ. He will continue to reign but that period is a time when they will have the honour of reigning with Him.

    I will leave you to your own findings, I hope you will find them a blessing.

    With love in Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello again, @Soverign Grace,

    Again, you will not find the word rapture in Scripture, but you will be aware, I'm sure, of the event so entitled, which is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. 2 Thessalonians 2 and 1 Corinthians 15, are also useful, speaking as they do of the resurrection and of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Those who have part in this, and when it will take place, will be discovered as you search. Again, may you be blessed in your study of the Word of God. For all the writing of man must be weighed in the balances, by bringing it to the plumbline of what is written in that precious Word.

    Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
    Chris
     
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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    charity likes this.
  16. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I know of NO ONE who claims they follow "Jesuit Futurism", whatever that is supposed to be.

    However I do believe the Lord has planned a time for when those that are DIVIDED, shall be SEPARATED unto Him.

    Don't you?

    Who are these people who claim to be "Jesuit Futurists"? Catholics who believe in future activity?

    And they are teaching, Jesus will sneak into town...? What town? And where does Scripture say anywhere that Jesus is sneaky ?

    And what is your rendition of the end of days?

    I believe in the Rapture, (but not how you describe it)...and can also show where the Lord comes as a "thief in the night"....which has nothing to do with the Rapture.

    So, why do you say that...then imply that is what Rapture believers believe?

    What you are saying IS NONSENSE, and NOT what I believe, although I do believe in the Rapture.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That is called *guilt by association*. However Futurism is embedded within the Bible (for those who have eyes to see). No one needs any Jesuit priest to reveal that. The majority of the prophecies in Revelation are still in the future no matter what is claimed by the deluded ones.
     
  18. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Well that's handy, to proclaim "association" for others, when they themselves make no "association"....LOL

    There are 370 "shall be" in the NT alone.
    Agree.
    If men are not living in a glorified body and death eradicated....all the "shall be" are not yet come to pass.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  19. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I never studied that. Some believe that we're due for the 7th seal? Is it credible? What do you believe the mark of the beast will be? Why do you think deception will rule even the church, because of the warning about the elect possibly being deceived?
     
  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    depends on what church we speak of, His church or mens, they are not the same. Watch Israel war is soon to come that will be another sign.
     
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