If all children go to Heaven and if Hell is forever then it seems that it's GOOD when children die, right?

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St. SteVen

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We only believe God doesn't send babies to Hell because that would be monstrous - and we don't believe God is a monster.
Fantastic post! Thanks.
I would extend that to all of humankind.
God doesn't send any human to Hell because that would be monstrous - and we don't believe God is a monster.
(assuming hell = eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape) Infinite punishment for a finite crime.
 
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Jack

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Surely I was sinful at birth,
Sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
- Psalm 51:5
Psalm 51:5 (NKJV)
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Babies cannot sin!
 
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Lambano

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Psalm 51:5 (NKJV)
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Good, we agree. David was in iniquity from the moment he was brought forth (from the womb), and even further back, in sin from the moment of conception. The Bible says babies are sinful. The NIV just captures the sense better.
 
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MatthewG

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Good, we agree. David was in iniquity from the moment he was brought forth (from the womb), and even further back, in sin from the moment of conception. Babies are sinful.
No, Lambano,

That can't be true. Babies are so sweet, and cute, and lovely they couldn't be selfish or liars before they could ever talk.
 
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MatthewG

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Perhaps they are just ignorant of that fact.

Everyone went to hell though, when they died, didn't matter if it was a child or an adult.

There was Paradise and the Prison part of Sheol... That was were 'souls went to' and were kept until they were dumped out in judged -... and Surely God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy - and children don't know very much and they haven't fully developed their brain.



Now I would say, that God would be fair and just - to someone that did not fully understand something compared to someone was given time and chance over and over and over...

Isaiah 65:2


There was never no - FLAMES OF FIRE in hell (Sheol) though.... (It was separation from God who is claimed to be a consuming fire)

People assume wrongly from a misapporiate teaching.

the Lake of Fire now... that is totally different,.
 

Lambano

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No, Lambano,

That can't be true. Babies are so sweet, and cute, and lovely they couldn't be selfish or liars before they could ever talk.
No, it is true. Think about it. Yes, we think they're cute and cuddly, but babies are totally centered on their own wants and needs.
 

St. SteVen

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Good, we agree. David was in iniquity from the moment he was brought forth (from the womb), and even further back, in sin from the moment of conception. Babies are sinful.
Was God declaring that about David, or was David verbally bashing himself?
Many religions recognize an age of accountability, inferring that youngsters are innocent on some level.

John 9:20-22 NIV
“We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind.
21 But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know.
Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.”
22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders,
who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus
was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.
 

MatthewG

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No, it is true. Think about it. Yes, we think they're cute and cuddly, but babies are totally centered on their own wants and needs.
by golly you are right,

Genesis 25:22

22 The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, “Why is this happening to me?” So she went to inquire of the LORD. 23 The LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”
 

St. SteVen

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No, it is true. Think about it. Yes, we think they're cute and cuddly, but babies are totally centered on their own wants and needs.
Right, they don't even clean up after themselves, or park the car in the driveway. - LOL

But seriously, they have yet to be socialized. They have no CONCEPT of the needs of others.
If you tell your toddler that you NEED a kiss, do they refuse?
 

MatthewG

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Also on the note of everyone went to hell, so did Jesus.

Before resurrection had come about. No one died and went straight to God. They went to sheol (the realm of the dead) (the covering of the dead) which was separated from God.

There is no such things as flames there. Though Jesus speaks a of the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich man.

However - in that story he mentioned about the Lake of fire which was going to come about the agony in this fire. That fire would be the truth coming from God and his love, in my opinion.

Hell is a place of ever wanting, never satisfied.
 

Lambano

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Was God declaring that about David, or was David verbally bashing himself?
Of course David was bashing himself, but it doesn't mean God wasn't revealing the truth.

As for the "age of accountability", then Patrick's logic applies: If you kill them before the age of accountability, you may save their souls. "Let us do evil so that good may come."

And if saving their child condemns the parents to Hell, well, "For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my countrymen, my kinsmen according to the flesh..." (Romans 9:3) What parent wouldn't give up their life for their child?
 

MatthewG

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Children go to Hell? That is SICK!

Everyone went to hell.

And if Jesus still has not come back, they are still there.

You gotta understand also that Hell is not a "PLACE OF FIRE" as people say.

It's more cold there than anything as it is - seperated from God,

There is Paradise and also the Prison part.

Children probably went to the Paradise part, I mean back in they (Jewish peoples) taught children to praise the name of God.

Matthew 21:16 Amplified Bible (AMP)
and they said to Him, “Do You hear what these children are saying?” And Jesus replied to them, “Yes; have you never read [in the Scripture], 'OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF INFANTS AND NURSING BABIES YOU HAVE PREPARED and PROVIDED PRAISE FOR YOURSELF'?”
 

MatthewG

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@Jack,

I dont believe hell is around anymore like some people. Jesus overcame this place, and it was thrown away after all the souls were dumped out of it, good or bad.

People are resurrected and go to the heavenly realm now, either inside the Kingdom or outside of the Kingdom.

There are people that will say they became a Christian at 5 years old and ever since been following God, today. I have heard it many times. God is fair, and I trust that he is fair and those who have been called out to and people reject, he is fair to give them what they want as well.
 

Lambano

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Right, they don't even clean up after themselves, or park the car in the driveway. - LOL

But seriously, they have yet to be socialized. They have no CONCEPT of the needs of others.
If you tell your toddler that you NEED a kiss, do they refuse?
Or they park the car at the top of the driveway so nobody else can get out...

Being born without a concept of the needs of others IS an example of being born sinful. What you see in Paul's letters is that "Sin" with a capital "S" isn't just transgressing a commandment, like "Honor thy father and mother by not waking them up at 2:00 in the morning"; it's a power that controls us.
 
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MatthewG

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This is what I find sick but people be doing all kinds of crazy. Does God have mercy on whom he will have mercy? For those children in this case absolutely I believe 100%, even though we are born in sin...

Jesus paid the price, and grown adults - get a chance to learn if they have the desire - but children not as much if parents unstable. Can the woman repent? Absolutely and she by her actions gets paralyzed after trying to kill herself. God is good, and he doesn't rejoice in the death of the wicked, but that they turn from their wicked ways.

 

Ronald David Bruno

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Matthew 18:2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
And who were those children specifically? They were Jews, brought up with the belief in God and coming to Him. The message to us is to come to God in humility and those who do are taken in.
But almost children do not come to Jesus!
A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree, bad fruit. Likewise, reprobate godless folks will not hear His voice, will not come to Him, nor their children ( dor they are bad fruit).
The Bible hammers the concept of a conditional salvation, based on belief in Jesus. GRACE through FAITH IN Jesus. Jesus says if you believe in Me, you will be saved. And conversely those who do not ... the wrath of God abides in them (and their children). Jesus also promises to those who believe, "you and your household will be saved".
Did Jesus condemn the Pharisees? Do you think He spared their children? Imo, I do not think he did, unless those children rejected their father's and followed Jesus. Likely, I think nothing that the Pharisees held dear was saved. "White washed tombs" ... " brood of vipers', he called them ... and their baby vipers as well.
We spread the gospel so that people can hear the Word, receive forgiveness and be saved. Did he save all the children of the reprobate world in the Flood? No. I think for some reason, people think children are more valuable then grown ups to God? Why? Less corrupted, more innocent? That's true in a sense, with our limited perspective. But we must first ask for our own forgiveness and then also for our children to be sanctified. We typically dedicate our children to God, ask for His blessing on their lives. Children of parents of false belief systems or godless folks do not receive the same blessing. They do not love the Lord nor are they called to His purpose!
We are all born sinners, so if all children got saved, then why not all people? And if all people get saved, why are we so determined to spread the gospel?
We are saved. Saved from what? Judgment and ultimately the Lake of Fire, which to me is a quick death of both body and soul.
"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in Gehenna." Matt. 10:28 YLT
“Never be afraid of those who can kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul! Far better to stand in awe of the one who has the power to destroy body and soul in the fires of destruction!" PHILLIPS
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." KJV

Destroy means to put an end to, annihilate. You can't have a never ending indestructible destruction, that is a contradiction. You throw a piece of paper in the fire and it burns in seconds. Likewise, if you fell into a lava lake that's 2000 degrees, how long will it take to be completely incinerated?
Aionios has variable meanings. It means eternity only when referring to God and His domain or our salvation. But when it is applied to this temporal realm, it means ages, lifetimes, generations, epochs. "Everlasting" can also be translated as age- lasting or age-during. So the destruction in the Lake of Fire is age-during, part of an age, at the end of the ages, specifically when the first heavens and first earth are destroyed at the Great White Throne Judgment. In a fervent heat the dissolves the elements of the universe as we know it. ( 2 Peter 3:10)

Christian children are set apart, sanctified; BUT not all children are. "You and your household!" And prior to Christ, those who lived by faith were saved. This makes sense to me. "GOD CAUSES ALL things work together for good for those who love the Lord, for those who are called to His purpose."
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Matthew 18:2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
And who were those children specifically? They were Jews, brought up with the belief in God and coming to Him. The message to us is to come to God in humility and those who do are taken in.
But almost children do not come to Jesus!
A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree, bad fruit. Likewise, reprobate godless folks will not hear His voice, will not come to Him, nor their children ( dor they are bad fruit).
The Bible hammers the concept of a conditional salvation, based on belief in Jesus. GRACE through FAITH IN Jesus. Jesus says if you believe in Me, you will be saved. And conversely those who do not ... the wrath of God abides in them (and their children). Jesus also promises to those who believe, "you and your household will be saved".
Did Jesus condemn the Pharisees? Do you think He spared their children? Imo, I do not think he did, unless those children rejected their father's and followed Jesus. Likely, I think nothing that the Pharisees held dear was saved. "White washed tombs" ... " brood of vipers', he called them ... and their baby vipers as well.
We spread the gospel so that people can hear the Word, receive forgiveness and be saved. Did he save all the children of the reprobate world in the Flood? No. I think for some reason, people think children are more valuable then grown ups to God? Why? Less corrupted, more innocent? That's true in a sense, with our limited perspective. But we must first ask for our own forgiveness and then also for our children to be sanctified. We typically dedicate our children to God, ask for His blessing on their lives. Children of parents of false belief systems or godless folks do not receive the same blessing. They do not love the Lord nor are they called to His purpose!
We are all born sinners, so if all children got saved, then why not all people? And if all people get saved, why are we so determined to spread the gospel?
We are saved. Saved from what? Judgment and ultimately the Lake of Fire, which to me is a quick death of both body and soul.
"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in Gehenna." Matt. 10:28 YLT
“Never be afraid of those who can kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul! Far better to stand in awe of the one who has the power to destroy body and soul in the fires of destruction!" PHILLIPS
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." KJV

Destroy means to put an end to, annihilate. You can't have a never ending indestructible destruction, that is a contradiction. You throw a piece of paper in the fire and it burns in seconds. Likewise, if you fell into a lava lake that's 2000 degrees, how long will it take to be completely incinerated?
Aionios has variable meanings. It means eternity only when referring to God and His domain or our salvation. But when it is applied to this temporal realm, it means ages, lifetimes, generations, epochs. "Everlasting" can also be translated as age- lasting or age-during. So the destruction in the Lake of Fire is age-during, part of an age, at the end of the ages, specifically when the first heavens and first earth are destroyed at the Great White Throne Judgment. In a fervent heat the dissolves the elements of the universe as we know it. ( 2 Peter 3:10)

Christian children are set apart, sanctified; BUT not all children are. "You and your household! And prior to Christ, those who lived by faith were saved. This makes sense to me. "GOD CAUSES ALL things work together for good for those who love the Lord, for those who are called to His purpose."
 

St. SteVen

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Being born without a concept of the needs of others IS an example of being born sinful. What you see in Paul's letters is that "Sin" with a capital "S" isn't just transgressing a commandment, like "Honor thy father and mother by not waking them up at 2:00 in the morning"; it's a power that controls us.
Yes, we are all born into Sin (with a capital "S") as members of Adam's race of humankind.
Perhaps this is part of the beauty of UR. The second paid the death penalty for ALL of humankind.
Therefore we don't have to split hairs about WHEN a person is responsible for their Sin (with a capital "S").
We all are.

Although I'm trying to imagine the judgement of an infant.
Parody time:

"Do you remember depriving your parents of sleep for weeks on end?"
Response: "Goo goo, gah gah."
"For the record, was that a 'Yes', or a 'No'?
Response: "Dah dah dah."
"So, you're blaming your father?"
Response: "Thhatttttz." (tongue noise)


@Patrick1966
 
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