If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man...

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Heyzeus

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first thanks for the reply, second, See post #31, and then your post 45, 90, and yourself acting as a scholar, stating that we are .. “twisting” the scriptures, so who made you a scholar? also see posts 51, 57, 85 :D

now I have given you every answer to your questions, now if you cannot comprehend what I'm saying leave it alone.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

This is simply not true .. In none of those posts do you address the words of Jesus in Matt/Mark. All you have been doing is quoting other scripture .. most of which has nothing to do with the topic - never mind refute the words of Jesus.

I get that you want to leave it alone - because so far you have done nothing but avoid the Jesus of Matt/Mark - because you "cant comprehend" and are trying to project your issues onto me.

Who was Jesus praying to - Himself ? - was he asking himself to take this cup from his hand. Did Jesus forget who he was and forsake himself ? Why can you not answer .. having trouble comprehending.

We are not finished with the words of Jesus - Matt 13: "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect....32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "

Do riddle me that one por favor - with something other than the desperate and ridiculous "Gods ways are beyond our comprehension"
While that may be - the words of Jesus are easy to comprehend in this an other passages... Everytime Jesus opens his mouth about "The Father" in Matt-Mark - he is talking about someone other than himself.

Ohhh .. but look look .. you found one passage from Jesus -- Its really vague - and could mean many things - in the Gospel of John - written long after Matt-Mark .. and that sums it up.

Why is it that you can not accept the words of Jesus ?
Matt 7 - Sermon on the mount 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

What part of "The will of My Father who is in Heaven" are you having trouble comprehending ?

The first sentence of the NT - if we start with Mark is what ? "The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God"

Lets check the footnotes.
  1. Mark 1:1 Or Jesus Christ. Messiah (Hebrew) and Christ (Greek) both mean Anointed One.
  2. Mark 1:1 Some manuscripts do not have the Son of God.
So properly stated - The Anointed one of God ... and some manuscripts do not even contain "Son of God" ..
"the anointed one sent by God" This is not God ... and nor did the author intend it to mean God .. what is Clear is that there is a sender - and a sendee .. .. the anointer .. and the anointee You see ... comprende vous ?

as luck would have it .. just a few inches down the page

"Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

This is not the story "The Father" coming down to earth .. This is the story of a man who was anointed as the Son of God at the age of 30.

You understand now ?







 

DaChaser

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This is simply not true .. In none of those posts do you address the words of Jesus in Matt/Mark. All you have been doing is quoting other scripture .. most of which has nothing to do with the topic - never mind refute the words of Jesus.

I get that you want to leave it alone - because so far you have done nothing but avoid the Jesus of Matt/Mark - because you "cant comprehend" and are trying to project your issues onto me.

Who was Jesus praying to - Himself ? - was he asking himself to take this cup from his hand. Did Jesus forget who he was and forsake himself ? Why can you not answer .. having trouble comprehending.

We are not finished with the words of Jesus - Matt 13: "At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect....32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "

Do riddle me that one por favor - with something other than the desperate and ridiculous "Gods ways are beyond our comprehension"
While that may be - the words of Jesus are easy to comprehend in this an other passages... Everytime Jesus opens his mouth about "The Father" in Matt-Mark - he is talking about someone other than himself.

Ohhh .. but look look .. you found one passage from Jesus -- Its really vague - and could mean many things - in the Gospel of John - written long after Matt-Mark .. and that sums it up.

Why is it that you can not accept the words of Jesus ?
Matt 7 - Sermon on the mount 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

What part of "The will of My Father who is in Heaven" are you having trouble comprehending ?

The first sentence of the NT - if we start with Mark is what ? "The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God"

Lets check the footnotes.
  1. Mark 1:1 Or Jesus Christ. Messiah (Hebrew) and Christ (Greek) both mean Anointed One.
  2. Mark 1:1 Some manuscripts do not have the Son of God.
So properly stated - The Anointed one of God ... and some manuscripts do not even contain "Son of God" ..
"the anointed one sent by God" This is not God ... and nor did the author intend it to mean God .. what is Clear is that there is a sender - and a sendee .. .. the anointer .. and the anointee You see ... comprende vous ?

as luck would have it .. just a few inches down the page

"Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

This is not the story "The Father" coming down to earth .. This is the story of a man who was anointed as the Son of God at the age of 30.

You understand now ?






Jesus was and is God coming to earth!
 
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Heyzeus

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Jesus was and is God coming to earth!

A God Perhaps - but not "The Father" - dat be a different one. and repeating "God is one" over and over to yourself - like some broken record .. will not change reality - James 2 - Those who believe in Sola Fide are "foolish" even demons believe God is one ... so much for faith alone..

But I digress.

What would you like to say - other than B-7 = when I put my 25 cents in the jukebox I get the same song - that being you repeating "God is One" over and over - as if repetition constitutes proof of claim.

We done here :)
 

101G

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Jesus was and is God coming to earth!
this is 100% correct.

Heyzeus, I checked your John 1:1 with scripture, and proved you was in ERROR, so as you said above, "We done here"

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

DaChaser

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A God Perhaps - but not "The Father" - dat be a different one. and repeating "God is one" over and over to yourself - like some broken record .. will not change reality - James 2 - Those who believe in Sola Fide are "foolish" even demons believe God is one ... so much for faith alone..

But I digress.

What would you like to say - other than B-7 = when I put my 25 cents in the jukebox I get the same song - that being you repeating "God is One" over and over - as if repetition constitutes proof of claim.

We done here :)
Jesus is Lord, is the very same Yahweh that appeared to Moses in that bush!
 
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Heyzeus

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Jesus is Lord, is the very same Yahweh that appeared to Moses in that bush!

Why do you keep repeating your premise - over and over - like a parrot on a broken Record - as If I do not know what your premise is ?
This is worrisome.
 

Heyzeus

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this is 100% correct.

Heyzeus, I checked your John 1:1 with scripture, and proved you was in ERROR, so as you said above, "We done here"

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

1) no you didn't and John 1:1 is the Scripture we are talking about .. how does posting John 1:1 make your claim .. Do you not agree that Jesus was the Logos ? because that is the word John used .. and we know what it means in a religious sense.

Do you not agree that Jesus was the Emissary between Man and God ? What Error are you talking about - and where is your support for claim.

I addressed all of your claims - You have not even tried to address the refutation that "JESUS" gives to your claim. It is not my refutation ,... its from the Big Guy ... and not your made up interpretation of the term Logos.

You havn't even bothered to give a definition - as I have done - Just repeated "God is One" over and over - as if repetition of premise constitutes proof of claim.. then pointing to all kinds of vague scripture - most having nothing to do with the specific issue - while avoding what Jesus had to say on the issue ...

and somehow - I am supposed to take this hodge podge over the words of Jesus .. Why are you so afraid of the teachings of Jesus ?
Surely if anyone has authority to speak on the Issue - that would be Jesus don't you think ?

Yet you cite from the OT - a time when the modern Trinity concept did not exist - The Israelite Trinity was Father (EL) Consort "(Asherah) - and Son YHWH .. or any of the others.

No Jewish scholar agrees with your interpretations in any case .. they laugh in your general direction for claiming the Trinity is given in the OT passages you cite from.

You post stuff about he coming of the messiah -- yup .. we all know the story - duh - and somehow that is supposed to support some Trinity Claim .. but it doesn't.

This is just a diversion tactic - desperately you are hoping for a way out of this dilema - desperate to avoid and ignore the words of Jesus - and the Truth of his words.. and this is a shame.
 

101G

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1) no you didn't and John 1:1 is the Scripture we are talking about .. how does posting John 1:1 make your claim .. Do you not agree that Jesus was the Logos ? because that is the word John used .. and we know what it means in a religious sense.

Do you not agree that Jesus was the Emissary between Man and God ? What Error are you talking about - and where is your support for claim.

I addressed all of your claims - You have not even tried to address the refutation that "JESUS" gives to your claim. It is not my refutation ,... its from the Big Guy ... and not your made up interpretation of the term Logos.

You havn't even bothered to give a definition - as I have done - Just repeated "God is One" over and over - as if repetition of premise constitutes proof of claim.. then pointing to all kinds of vague scripture - most having nothing to do with the specific issue - while avoding what Jesus had to say on the issue ...

and somehow - I am supposed to take this hodge podge over the words of Jesus .. Why are you so afraid of the teachings of Jesus ?
Surely if anyone has authority to speak on the Issue - that would be Jesus don't you think ?

Yet you cite from the OT - a time when the modern Trinity concept did not exist - The Israelite Trinity was Father (EL) Consort "(Asherah) - and Son YHWH .. or any of the others.

No Jewish scholar agrees with your interpretations in any case .. they laugh in your general direction for claiming the Trinity is given in the OT passages you cite from.

You post stuff about he coming of the messiah -- yup .. we all know the story - duh - and somehow that is supposed to support some Trinity Claim .. but it doesn't.

This is just a diversion tactic - desperately you are hoping for a way out of this dilema - desperate to avoid and ignore the words of Jesus - and the Truth of his words.. and this is a shame.
GINOLJC, to all.

I have rereprove you on John 1:1 over and over again, now once again, listen. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Heyzeus, see that word "WITH" here in John 1:1, and the word "WAS GOD. see, fleshly thinking, earthly thinking, carnal thinking cannot comprehend this, but we will make it plain once again by the scriptures, listen closley.

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

now Heyzeus, carefully look at the scripture above, it have the same word "WITH" in it as John 1:1. now reading the verse it's only ONE speaking, the "LORD", correct. and the LORD said that he is the First and he the First is "WITH" the Last correct. it seems like it's two persons do it not? the LORD the First, (one Person), and the Last, (one person)... correct?..... well wrong. it's the same one person. how do you know this 101G, my heavenly teacher and heavenly scholar told me and showed me. and here's how I know by him, listen. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

do you know what "ALSO" means? just google it up, it means, "in addition; too"..... :eek: did you see the phrase, "I am he". where have I showed this same phrase at before? concering his NAME, listen. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." now who said that, "I AM HE?" in that day you should know my name?.... welll let the scriptures speak, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

now if you cannot see that, then you're grossly decieved.

so who is the First .... "AND" ..... "WITH" ..... "ALSO" .... Last, let the scriptures speak, #1. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;" who was speaking to the Churches here in Revelation? answer, the Lord Jesus ..... now watch this Heyzeus, not only the Lord Jesus, but the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, How do 101G know this? answer just read how each letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"
say what? :eek: the Spirit, I thought it was the Lord Jesus, yes the Lord Jesus is the "SPIRIT", who is the "WORD"m of God, is he not speaking, using .... "WORDS". ... lol, lol, lol, my, my, my, my. Father will they ever learn?.

now let 101G say this, I speak by permission. all of you who believe in a three persons Godhead, you cannot say anything about ISRAEL being blind. YOU are just as much BLIND as ISRAEL is whaen it come to God. and the bible is clear, Matthew 15:14 "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

so with that, nos vemos.

PICJAG
101G The "Saboteador espiritual"
 

DaChaser

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Why do you keep repeating your premise - over and over - like a parrot on a broken Record - as If I do not know what your premise is ?
This is worrisome.
Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in OT , as was the word of the Father who appeared to people!
 

Heyzeus

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GINOLJC, to all.

I have rereprove you on John 1:1 over and over again, now once again, listen. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Heyzeus, see that word "WITH" here in John 1:1, and the word "WAS GOD. see, fleshly thinking, earthly thinking, carnal thinking cannot comprehend this, but we will make it plain once again by the scriptures, listen closley.

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

now Heyzeus, carefully look at the scripture above, it have the same word "WITH" in it as John 1:1. now reading the verse it's only ONE speaking, the "LORD", correct. and the LORD said that he is the First and he the First is "WITH" the Last correct. it seems like it's two persons do it not? the LORD the First, (one Person), and the Last, (one person)... correct?..... well wrong. it's the same one person. how do you know this 101G, my heavenly teacher and heavenly scholar told me and showed me. and here's how I know by him, listen. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

do you know what "ALSO" means? just google it up, it means, "in addition; too"..... :eek: did you see the phrase, "I am he". where have I showed this same phrase at before? concering his NAME, listen. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." now who said that, "I AM HE?" in that day you should know my name?.... welll let the scriptures speak, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

now if you cannot see that, then you're grossly decieved.

so who is the First .... "AND" ..... "WITH" ..... "ALSO" .... Last, let the scriptures speak, #1. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;" who was speaking to the Churches here in Revelation? answer, the Lord Jesus ..... now watch this Heyzeus, not only the Lord Jesus, but the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, How do 101G know this? answer just read how each letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"
say what? :eek: the Spirit, I thought it was the Lord Jesus, yes the Lord Jesus is the "SPIRIT", who is the "WORD"m of God, is he not speaking, using .... "WORDS". ... lol, lol, lol, my, my, my, my. Father will they ever learn?.

now let 101G say this, I speak by permission. all of you who believe in a three persons Godhead, you cannot say anything about ISRAEL being blind. YOU are just as much BLIND as ISRAEL is whaen it come to God. and the bible is clear, Matthew 15:14 "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

so with that, nos vemos.

PICJAG
101G The "Saboteador espiritual"

1) John 1 - the Logos Concept was explained to you. John 1 does not support the claim that Jesus was God - hence why Bible dictionaries state there is no Trinity Expressed in the NT.

2) Once again your avoid addressing the words of Jesus - in an effort to maintain your blindness - desperately hoping that posting vague passages from Isaiah will cancel the Truth given to you by our Lord - in simple direct language.
 

101G

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Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in OT , as was the word of the Father who appeared to people!
first, thanks for the reply, second, Jesus is no angel, but spoke through the angel. listen, Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

so clearly from hebrews here we see Jesus is no angel.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Heyzeus

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first, thanks for the reply, second, Jesus is no angel, but spoke through the angel. listen, Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

so clearly from hebrews here we see Jesus is no angel.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
'

1) You said "Jesus was the Angel of the Lord" Now you are saying that he was not. OK
2) just because the Angels worship Jesus - does not turn Jesus into God - the Father. There are angels that worship Satan as well - does this turn Satan into God ?
3) Why would you Quote from Hebrews .. in a conversation about the Trinity - rather than quoting from Jesus.

I agree that Jesus was no Angel - Jesus was a Man who was anointed by God at the age of 30.
 

janc3

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was not Christ, "his Spirit" was in the OT? YES, 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;"
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." Christ Spirit was in the OT, as a matter of Fact it is the GOD of the OT. so who is the ROCK? lets check the record/the Scriptures,
Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God."
Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

the Christ Spirit is the "LORD", BINGO. again showing that the LORD is the Lord in Flesh. that's bible. the GOD of the OT is the Spirit of Christ.

so Grailhunter, another mistake on your part again.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
God in flesh, he is. The creator, the word, the voice in the beginning became man.
It is incredible.
 
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101G

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God in flesh, he is. The creator, the word, the voice in the beginning became man.
It is incredible.
on POINT, the one true God revealed himself in flesh and "talked" to us, and dwelt amoung us. that's why Thomas said, "My Lord, "God as a man), and my God the Spirit in that man.

yes it's incredible to us, but as the scriptures, states, Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

janc3

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There are not two thrones, there is only one, and he who sits on it is the incarnate God.
The Holy Spirit will come upon you, therefore the holy one who is born will be called the Son of God.

Holy Spirit = God
Holy Spirit = Voice
Holy Spirit = Word

God is spirit.
 

janc3

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on POINT, the one true God revealed himself in flesh and "talked" to us, and dwelt amoung us. that's why Thomas said, "My Lord, "God as a man), and my God the Spirit in that man.

yes it's incredible to us, but as the scriptures, states, Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make ready the way of YAH; prepare a way for our God in the wilderness.
 

101G

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The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make ready the way of YAH; prepare a way for our God in the wilderness.
I understand what you're seeing... (smile), that voice was in John the Baptist... for one cannot speak without God.

one of the two witness.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Heyzeus

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God in flesh, he is. The creator, the word, the voice in the beginning became man.
It is incredible.

Nowhere in your posts from Corinthians is Jesus claimed to be God - "The Father"

Then you post from Deuteronomy - passages about God - as if they relate to Jesus - but they don't .. and it is absurd to think that they would.
 

Heyzeus

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There are not two thrones, there is only one, and he who sits on it is the incarnate God.
.

Not according to Mark 16 "19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God "