If you have read the book of Revelation, and not understood something, you have read wisely (thoughts?)

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FaithWillDo

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So you believe that the Devil/Satan and his children are welcome into the Kingdom of God = 'come as you are'?
Dear David in NJ,
Of course, I don't believe that the Devil and His children are welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven. For that reason, Christ is going to destroy them through His judgment. Do you not understand what conversion is? The natural man who is a child of the Devil must be destroyed and the new child of God must be born. These events all happen "within" a person so that they are saved.

Joe
 

David in NJ

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Dear David in NJ,
Of course, I don't believe that the Devil and His children are welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven. For that reason, Christ is going to destroy them through His judgment. Do you not understand what conversion is? The natural man who is a child of the Devil must be destroyed and the new child of God must be born. These events all happen "within" a person so that they are saved.

Joe
Thank You Joe

How can a man, satan and the fallen angels be Reborn after the Final Judgment where they are cast into the Lake of Fire?

Please do not waste time in an attempt at = 'New Heavens and New Earth'.

Rather, spend time in the Scripture to find where it says: "those in the Lake of Fire will be forgiven and saved from it - while they are in it."

Thank You Joe
 
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Davy

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Dear Davy,
I used to believe as you do, but after my conversion in 2005,....
There's those OLD MEANINGLESS CLICHES! What this actually means to say is, "I'm smarter than you".

NO, those cliche's won't work. What I said holds true for you, me, and all believers on Jesus Christ. If you don't have Bible study in ALL of God's Word, then you WILL NOT properly understand Christ's Book of Revelation.

And just QUOTING IRRELEVANT BIBLE SCRIPTURE used as cannon fodder, like what you did, does not work either.

I already well know, by your own misuse of Bible Scripture, that YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE TEACHING Christ's Revelation.
 

FaithWillDo

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Thank You Joe

How can a man, satan and the fallen angels be Reborn after the Final Judgment where they are cast into the Lake of Fire?

Please do not waste time in an attempt at = 'New Heavens and New Earth'.

Rather, spend time in the Scripture to find where it says: "those in the Lake of Fire will be forgiven and saved from it - while they are in it."

Thank You Joe
Dear David in NJ,
The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the carnality of the believer.

Here is what scripture teaches about Christ's judgment:

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

All mankind is evil and because of such, mankind does not understand the judgment of Christ.

This is what scripture says about the judgment of Christ:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Psa 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.


Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Christ's judgment has TWO purposes: 1) to destroy mankind's carnality 2). to teach us righteousness.

Without judgment, no one could be saved. We all must be judged by fire:

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire:


Why do you believe Christ said the following in the verse below?

Luke 12:49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Do you believe Christ is a bloodthirsty monster who is eager to burn and harm His enemies? That is what evil men believe about the judgment of Christ.

The truth is that Christ loves mankind and He longs to correct our sinful and carnal ways. Christ knows that His judgment will bring salvation to us. For that reason, Christ wishes that our judgment was already started. Christ is not the monster who torments in literal fire most of mankind as Orthodox Christianity teaches. Christ really does love us, even when we are children of the Devil. And because He loves us, He will do ALL THAT IS NECESSARY to change us into His children.

As for showing you some scriptures which teach that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire will be saved in the end, I presented my scriptures in post #31 to you. You must have not read that post carefully.

Here is one more verse:

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Fire is the spiritual symbol for Christ's judgment. We are saved by fire.

Joe
 
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Davy

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Dear David in NJ,
The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the carnality of the believer.
See what I mean folks?

No one with a FLESH BODY will ever go into the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Rev.20 reveals that the SECOND DEATH is the casting into the future "lake of fire".

The "second death" is about destruction of one's spirit-soul, So HOW can "carnality" go into that future "lake of fire"? That's a silly idea.

Like I said before, this person FaithWillDo probably means well, but still is not studied enough in God's Word to try to teach Christ's Book of Revelation.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Dear ewq1938,
The gospel which says that Christ is going to be a failure to save all of mankind but will instead, torment in literal fire most of mankind for all eternity, without a loving or righteous purpose, is the real FALSE GOSPEL.

This verse below is the true Good News which should be proclaim to the world:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Why won't you believe it? Where is your faith?

Joe
You are deceived. God desires for all people to be saved, but makes each person responsible to choose. He doesn't force people to repent and believe. You are not differentiating between His will and His desire. His will was to provide the means of salvation to all people and His desire is that all people will accept His offer of salvation. But, He doesn't decide for them. Scripture does not teach anywhere that all people will be saved. Jesus very specifically taught that many are called, but few are chosen (Matt 20:16, Matt 22:14). You are blatantly contradicting Him by teaching that all who are called are chosen.

Your beliefs blatantly contradict passages like this as well:

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

How is it possible for those who are cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" to be saved? That's nonsense. Scripture teaches that today is the day of salvation. No one gets saved after they die. Scripture teaches that everyone is appointed to die once and then they look forward to judgment. There are no second chances. Your beliefs are heresy.
 

FaithWillDo

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You are deceived. God desires for all people to be saved, but makes each person responsible to choose. He doesn't force people to repent and believe. You are not differentiating between His will and His desire. His will was to provide the means of salvation to all people and His desire is that all people will accept His offer of salvation. But, He doesn't decide for them. Scripture does not teach anywhere that all people will be saved. Jesus very specifically taught that many are called, but few are chosen (Matt 20:16, Matt 22:14). You are blatantly contradicting Him by teaching that all who are called are chosen.

Your beliefs blatantly contradict passages like this as well:

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

How is it possible for those who are cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" to be saved? That's nonsense. Scripture teaches that today is the day of salvation. No one gets saved after they die. Scripture teaches that everyone is appointed to die once and then they look forward to judgment. There are no second chances. Your beliefs are heresy.
Dear Spiritual Israelite,

Why do you believe there is a difference from what God's "wills' and what God "desires"?

Here is what scripture says:

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

You said:

Your beliefs blatantly contradict passages like this as well:

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

How is it possible for those who are cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" to be saved? That's nonsense.


First of all, the phrase "aion aion" does not mean for ever and ever. It means for the ages of the ages. Also, you don't seem to be understanding "conversion". The Beast is a believer who has become a Man of Sin (under the influence of the spirit of anti-Christ). The Man of Sin will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire upon the believer's conversion. Conversion is when Christ comes a second time to a fallen away believer (a Man of Sin) and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Spirit). This gift will cause the birth of the new child of God within the believer. Then judgment will fall upon the Man of Sin who still remains. The Man of Sin will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearing to the believer. After his destruction, all that will remain is the new child of God.

This verse teaches conversion:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one believer, one flesh) be in the field; the one shall be taken (the Man of Sin), and the other left (the child of God).

This verse below teaches about the judgment of the Man of Sin during the conversion process:

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain (Man of Sin) of the LORD shall be many.

After a believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and is called out from the world, a spiritual war will develop within the believer. It is between the Old Man (carnality of the believer) and the New Man (Holy Spirit). Paul mentions this war here:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the Day of Evil, and having done all, to stand.

After Paul's departing, wolves came into the sheep fold and devoured the church. This is the Day of Evil Paul mentioned above and it is also the apostasy Paul told the Thessalonians would be coming.

When the spirit of anti-Christ comes into the believer, the deadly head wound to the Old Man which came from the Sword of Christ is healed. Christ delivered this blow at the time the person received the Early Rain. The head wound is healed because the spirit of anti-Christ comes to the aid of the Old Man a short time after the believer received the Early Rain. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the believer, the Old Man becomes the Man of Sin and will spiritually govern the believer. When Christ comes a second time with the Latter Rain (the full payment of the Holy Spirit), the war resumes and the Holy Spirit quickly and easily wins. The Man of Sin is "taken" and the child of God is born. This is conversion.

There is much more that I could say but it will probably not be helpful to you if you can't receive what I have presented above. However, I have written a great deal in this thread so if you have any desire to understand more of what I have been shown by Christ, I recommend you go back and read my previous posts.

I am out of time for today. I will try and get back on the forum tomorrow (as the Lord wills).

Joe
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Dear Spiritual Israelite,

Why do you believe there is a difference from what God's "wills' and what God "desires"?
Because there is a difference and it can be easily seen in scripture. Scripture very clearly teaches that it was God's will to send His Son to die for the sins "of the whole world" (1 John 2:2) and nothing could stop that, but it's His desire that all people would be saved, and yet not all people are saved (and scripture doesn't teach that will ever happen).

Here is what scripture says:

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
It pleases Him to offer salvation to all people, but He does not force all people to accept it. You are reading verses like this with extreme bias and not understanding the context.

You said:
Your beliefs blatantly contradict passages like this as well:

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

How is it possible for those who are cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" to be saved? That's nonsense.


First of all, the phrase "aion aion" does not mean for ever and ever. It means for the ages of the ages.
LOL. This is what people do when their views are thoroughly refuted. They start making things up. No, sorry. Forever and ever means just that. For eternity. You are so horribly deceived with your cultish universalist beliefs.

Also, you don't seem to be understanding "conversion".
You don't seem to be understanding anything.

The Beast is a believer who has become a Man of Sin (under the influence of the spirit of anti-Christ). The Man of Sin will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire upon the believer's conversion. Conversion is when Christ comes a second time to a fallen away believer (a Man of Sin) and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Spirit). This gift will cause the birth of the new child of God within the believer. Then judgment will fall upon the Man of Sin who still remains. The Man of Sin will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearing to the believer. After his destruction, all that will remain is the new child of God.

This verse teaches conversion:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one believer, one flesh) be in the field; the one shall be taken (the Man of Sin), and the other left (the child of God).

This verse below teaches about the judgment of the Man of Sin during the conversion process:

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain (Man of Sin) of the LORD shall be many.

After a believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and is called out from the world, a spiritual war will develop within the believer. It is between the Old Man (carnality of the believer) and the New Man (Holy Spirit). Paul mentions this war here:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the Day of Evil, and having done all, to stand.

After Paul's departing, wolves came into the sheep fold and devoured the church. This is the Day of Evil Paul mentioned above and it is also the apostasy Paul told the Thessalonians would be coming.

When the spirit of anti-Christ comes into the believer, the deadly head wound to the Old Man which came from the Sword of Christ is healed. Christ delivered this blow at the time the person received the Early Rain. The head wound is healed because the spirit of anti-Christ comes to the aid of the Old Man a short time after the believer received the Early Rain. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the believer, the Old Man becomes the Man of Sin and will spiritually govern the believer. When Christ comes a second time with the Latter Rain (the full payment of the Holy Spirit), the war resumes and the Holy Spirit quickly and easily wins. The Man of Sin is "taken" and the child of God is born. This is conversion.
This is utter nonsense. Just completely ridiculous. You come across as though you have been brainwashed.

There is much more that I could say but it will probably not be helpful to you if you can't receive what I have presented above.
No one can. It's complete nonsense.
 

FaithWillDo

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It pleases Him to offer salvation to all people, but He does not force all people to accept it. You are reading verses like this with extreme bias and not understanding the context.
Dear Spiritual Israelite,
You said:
Scripture very clearly teaches that it was God's will to send His Son to die for the sins "of the whole world" (1 John 2:2) and nothing could stop that, but it's His desire that all people would be saved, and yet not all people are saved (and scripture doesn't teach that will ever happen).


The verses I posted are very clear. There is no difference between God's "will" and His desires. He will accomplish them both.

You have chosen to believe that Christ is more like mankind who can't fulfill all their desires. Your understanding of God is very flawed.

Your doctrines also make Christ out to be a failure who cannot accomplish the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Do you believe this verse below?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

If Christ desires anything, He will fulfill that desire. However, believers who have the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ believe that mankind's "will" is just as strong as God's "will". These believers sit in God's temple and claim that they are just as powerful as God and that they can thwart His "will" and desires. These believers have been deceived into believing that mankind's "will" is too strong for Christ to overcome; or they believe that some people are just too evil or foolish for Christ to save them. But concerning themselves, they believe that they are wiser or smarter because they made the right choice to accept Christ. As a result, these believers privately believe that they are worthy of their salvation and that they do have something to boast about. But the truth is, these believers are still under the Law and will be rejected by Christ upon their resurrection if He doesn't "come again" to them before they die. If He doesn't come to them a second time, they will not be an "heir" or a First Fruit of Christ's harvest of mankind.

Mankind is saved solely by the spiritual work of Christ which He does within carnally minded and sinful mankind. If Christ does not do His work within a person beforehand, they cannot possibly call Jesus "Lord".

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only AFTER Christ comes to a person and freely gives them the gift of the Holy Spirit (without their asking and without their permission) will their heart and mind be changed so that they will freely make the confession of faith. If Christ wanted to save all mankind today, He could do it. However, Christ has established a plan to save all mankind; in this age, Christ is only bringing in the harvest of First Fruits. They are chosen and blessed. They are the only ones who Christ will save in this age. The bulk of mankind will only be saved at the end of the final age.

Where is your faith to believe these verses below?

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

1Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


You said:
It pleases Him to offer salvation to all people, but He does not force all people to accept it. You are reading verses like this with extreme bias and not understanding the context.


When Christ freely gives a person the Holy Spirit, their heart and mind will be changed so that they will freely and willingly make the confession of faith and call Him "Lord". Christ never forces anyone to make the confession of faith but He does freely give the Spirit to us. And with the Spirit, our hearts and minds will be changed so that we all willingly accept Christ as Lord.

Do you believe this verse below?

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Your belief in the Doctrine of Free Will is contradicted by this verse. That doctrine is a lie from Satan.

Paul was the "pattern" whereby the Elect will be saved. Paul was on the Damascus Road to persecute Christians. But after Christ gave Paul the Early Rain of the Spirit, Paul fell to his knees and called Jesus "Lord". If Christ can save Paul (the chief of sinners), He can also change the hearts and minds of everyone else just as quickly.

You said:
LOL. This is what people do when their views are thoroughly refuted. They start making things up. No, sorry. Forever and ever means just that. For eternity. You are so horribly deceived with your cultish universalist beliefs.


Here is scriptural proof that "aion aion" means "ages of the ages".

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever (aion aion).

Paul says that Christ's reign will come to an end when He defeats the last enemy which is death:

1Cor 15:24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

So which is it? Does Christ's reign comes to an end at the end of the final age or does He just keep reigning for ever and ever even though He has completed the mission His Father gave Him to accomplish?

You said:
This is utter nonsense. Just completely ridiculous. You come across as though you have been brainwashed.


Paul said that "wolves" would come into the church after his departing and not spare ANY of the flock. Paul also said that the apostasy was coming. Finally, Paul and John both said that the spirit of anti-Christ was coming and was, in fact, already there.

Do you believe the apostasy never happened to the church?

Paul says that no one will be spared from the apostasy.

When do you believe the church came out from Satan's deceptions and started following the truth of Christ?

I can tell you will 100% certainty that Satan has never left the church and is still reigning from within it by his spirit of anti-Christ. This is the "strong delusion" Paul spoke of in the verse below:

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The "lie" this verse mentions is that Satan is actually Christ. Satan, via the spirit of anti-Christ, masquerades as Christ to deceive the church from within. There are no verses of scripture which teach that Satan has left or will ever leave the church. The only hope is for Christ to "come again" and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ from within each fallen away believer in the church. Christ does this at a time of His choosing and not ours.

In this age, Christ will only "come again" to His Elect. When He comes to them, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and they will be restored to true faith and will receive their promised salvation. For everyone else in the apostate church, they will die in their sins and be resurrected to judgment.

However, by the end of the final age, Christ will have come to all mankind and will have given them all the free gift of the Holy Spirit. He gives it to them because of His grace and not because they are worthy to receive it.

Then, this verse below will be testified (proven) to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Where is your faith to believe Christ can actually accomplish all that He has said He will do?

Joe
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Dear Spiritual Israelite,
You said:
Scripture very clearly teaches that it was God's will to send His Son to die for the sins "of the whole world" (1 John 2:2) and nothing could stop that, but it's His desire that all people would be saved, and yet not all people are saved (and scripture doesn't teach that will ever happen).


The verses I posted are very clear. There is no difference between God's "will" and His desires. He will accomplish them both.

You have chosen to believe that Christ is more like mankind who can't fulfill all their desires. Your understanding of God is very flawed.
Wrong. God wants people to place their faith in His Son and to love Him. Can love be forced? No, it cannot. So, your understanding of God is very flawed. You believe He is a Puppet Master, but He is not.

Your doctrines also make Christ out to be a failure who cannot accomplish the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
That is a lie. When He said "It is finished" that means He finished all of the things the Father sent Him to do. He sacrificed Himself to make it possible for all people to be saved, but He is not a Puppet Master. He makes people responsible to repent and put their faith in Him. Not everyone does and He is not going to force anyone to do that.

Do you believe this verse below?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Of course I do. Do you understand what it means? Clearly, you don't. I believe all verses in the Bible, so you don't need to ask me ridiculous questions like this. I obviously disagree with you on what this verse and many others mean. You apparently think that God is weak since you believe He has to force someone to be saved rather than making anyone responsible to respond to His call to salvation. You make God out to be insecure, so He has to force people to believe in Him instead of allowing them to decide for themselves.

It looks like Joshua didn't get the memo that people (supposedly) don't have to make a choice of what to believe and who to serve.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
 

ewq1938

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1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Where is your faith to believe Christ can actually accomplish all that He has said He will do?

Joe

You need to listen to Jesus himself:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most will be destroyed and not find life. Only a few will find that life and not be destroyed. 1Tim is not saying God will save all men, but would prefer all men to be saved but we know that most will not be saved.
 

FaithWillDo

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Wrong. God wants people to place their faith in His Son and to love Him. Can love be forced? No, it cannot. So, your understanding of God is very flawed. You believe He is a Puppet Master, but He is not.


That is a lie. When He said "It is finished" that means He finished all of the things the Father sent Him to do. He sacrificed Himself to make it possible for all people to be saved, but He is not a Puppet Master. He makes people responsible to repent and put their faith in Him. Not everyone does and He is not going to force anyone to do that.


Of course I do. Do you understand what it means? Clearly, you don't. I believe all verses in the Bible, so you don't need to ask me ridiculous questions like this. I obviously disagree with you on what this verse and many others mean. You apparently think that God is weak since you believe He has to force someone to be saved rather than making anyone responsible to respond to His call to salvation. You make God out to be insecure, so He has to force people to believe in Him instead of allowing them to decide for themselves.

It looks like Joshua didn't get the memo that people (supposedly) don't have to make a choice of what to believe and who to serve.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
Dear Spiritual Israelite,
Having the ability to make "choices" DOES NOT mean mankind as a "free will".

Here is the definition of FREE WILL: the power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints.

Mankind has divine restraints on their "will" as these verses repeatedly and clearly state:

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
,

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Exd 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.


Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.


Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.


When a believer accepts the Doctrine of Free Will, it will cause them to have a "works" based belief system. In other words, the believer will be approaching Christ for salvation by their own "works" rather than remaining steadfast in faith. When this happens, the believer will fall from grace and will come under the Old Covenant of Law. Upon their resurrection from the grave, Christ will say to them:

Mat 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

These fallen away believers "practice lawlessness" because they are under the Law rather than the grace of the New Covenant. As a result, they will be judged by the Law in the Lake of Fire until they have "paid the last penny":

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

Unless Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them, they will die in their sins and will not be an "heir" to the promises of Christ. They will suffer this loss, but they will still be saved after their judgment is complete:

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This verse below applies to these fallen away believers who put their faith in the false Doctrine of Free Will:

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Spiritual Israelite, there is no point in continuing this discussion. Your understanding of the truth is not coming from God's Word. Until it does, I can't help you. When Christ is ready, He will give you "eyes that can see", along with the faith to believe Him.

This verse applies:

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Someday, every person who has ever lived will "see" Christ because He will come to them and heal their spiritual blindness. Most will not be blessed to be healed in this age. Most will have to wait until He comes to them in the final age. Only then will they understand the truth of God's Word and receive their promised salvation.

Joe
 
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FaithWillDo

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You need to listen to Jesus himself:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most will be destroyed and not find life. Only a few will find that life and not be destroyed. 1Tim is not saying God will save all men, but would prefer all men to be saved but we know that most will not be saved.
Dear ewq1938,
You do not understand how Christ saves mankind. We all must be destroyed spiritually so that we can be "born again". Because of this truth, no man escapes judgment.

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Luke 12:49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.


Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

All the death and destruction which comes from the judgment (fire) of Christ is necessary for a person's conversion and salvation.

When Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the EARLY RAIN of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), He gives them a deadly blow by His Sword (Word of God) to the head of their Old Man (carnality of the believer). The Old Man's "head" is Satan.

Christ strikes the blow to the believer's head because it is mankind's carnality which blinds a person from knowing Christ. After the believer's carnality is destroyed, they will be able to "see" Christ for the first time.

However, because the believer only receives an "earnest amount" (down payment) of the Holy Spirit when they are "called out", the carnality of the believer doesn't die quickly. This leaves the believer's spiritual blindness mostly intact. As a result, a spiritual war within the believer will develop. This war is between the earnest of the Spirit and the carnal nature of the believer.

Paul teaches this truth in the verse below:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

When Satan sees that he is about to lose control of the believer, he will come to the aid of their carnal nature and strengthen it. Satan does this by sending the spirit of anti-Christ to indwell the new believer. Through that spirit, Satan teaches the believer his false gospel of "works" whose foundation is the Doctrines of Free Will and Hell. And because the believer is spiritually blind, and because Satan masquerades as Christ, the believer is quickly and easily deceived.

Christ says this about this time of Satan's deception:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the believer, they will become utterly and completely deceived. They will think that they are following the teachings of Christ, but they are, in fact, following the false gospel of Satan.

Satan's gospel is based on the 'works" of man rather than faith in Christ and trusting Him to perform all the necessary "works" for their salvation.

Because of Satan's deceptions, the believer's deadly head wound to their Old Man is healed:

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And because of the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ, the believer will be made "worse than the first". Their "Old Man" will become a "Man of Sin".

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits (represents the spirit of anti-Christ, Satan's perfect deception) more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

At this point, the only hope for a fallen away believer is for Christ to come to them a second time (the Second Coming of Christ) and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them. With this full payment of the Holy Spirit, the believer's carnal nature will be quickly destroyed, and with it, their spiritual blindness will be healed. The believer will then understand the truth of Christ for the first time.

Now that the believer is armed with the truth of Christ, that truth (Sword, Christ) will give the Man of Sin a second blow to his head (Satan). With that blow, the Man of Sin will be taken and cast into the Lake of Fire for his destruction.

Rev 19:20 And the beast (Man of Sin) was taken, and with him the false prophet (spirit of anti-Christ) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

As a result, the believer will no longer be governed by Satan (their old head) but will now be governed by Christ (their new Head). The believer is now "born again" and converted.

Without Christ's judgment to destroy mankind's carnality (which will be made worse by Satan), no man can be saved.

Joe
 

ewq1938

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Dear ewq1938,
You do not understand how Christ saves mankind.

You ignore what Christ taught.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Few find life which is a narrow way. Most do not find life. This is speaking of eternal life.
 

rwb

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Dear WPM,
We are told to compare spiritual with spiritual. We must look to see how the terms are used elsewhere in scripture to determine their meanings.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

We are specifically told the meanings of the symbols do not carry the same meanings as what "man's wisdom teaches". When you look at the term "at hand" in scripture, it always means it is happening NOW.

When the teachings of Revelation are properly understood, you will see that they were "at hand" at the time John received the vision and that they have been happening over and over again within the lives of all of Christ's Elect since that time.

The Old Covenant is physical and outward. The New Covenant is spiritual and within. The events being fulfilled under the New Covenant are spiritual events which happen within a person. We must rightly divide the Word by the two covenants.

Joe

That which was at hand was the spiritual Kingdom of God that was being built, shall be built and completed as the Gospel of Christ is proclaimed unto all the nations of the world, and that Gentiles would complete the Kingdom. Christ is NOT saying His second coming was at hand. How would it make any sense to the disciples living in the first century AD, as well as to those reading throughout the ages, for Christ to speak of His coming again as happening NOW (first century AD) while He was still physically present on the earth?
 

FaithWillDo

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You ignore what Christ taught.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Few find life which is a narrow way. Most do not find life. This is speaking of eternal life.
Dear ewq1938,

Most believers do not find life in this age because this age is for the harvesting of ONLY the First Fruits. The are "few":

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are "called" is the church (the called out ones). Most of the believers in the church will remain in the church and will not ever be converted in this age. They will receive their portion with the unbelievers:

Luke 12:46 the lord of that bondman shall come in a day when he does not expect it, and in an hour he knows not of, and shall cut him in two and appoint his portion with the unbelievers.

All who remain "lost" in this present age will travel the broad way which leads to the destruction of the Lake of Fire. However, before they are destroyed, Christ will have pity on them (Joel 2:18) and will pour out the Latter Rain (Joel 2:23). This will cause the birth of the child of God who is righteous and who is not judged.

Gen 18:3 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also cause the righteous to perish with the wicked?

Numbers 16:26 And he spoke to the assembly, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye perish in all their sins.


After the "lost" of the final age are saved, they will be spared from death and will be born again. Only the "wicked men" (Man of Sin) will receive destruction.


For the "few" who are chosen out from the "many" called, they will be judged and destroyed before they physically die in this age. However, their destruction will not be done in "wrath". Why? Because their judgment will only start AFTER they are saved. Revelation chapter 19 teaches this truth of the Elect's conversion. The Beast and False Prophet are removed from the Elect believer and are cast into the Lake of Fire were their judgment will take place.

This verse also applies:

Mat 24:40 Then two (one believer, one flesh) shall be in the field, one is taken (Man of Sin) and one is left (child of God);

However, for the "many", they will NOT be saved prior to their judgment. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire as a Man of Sin and there, they will experience wrath as they are judged.

Joe
 

FaithWillDo

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That which was at hand was the spiritual Kingdom of God that was being built, shall be built and completed as the Gospel of Christ is proclaimed unto all the nations of the world, and that Gentiles would complete the Kingdom. Christ is NOT saying His second coming was at hand. How would it make any sense to the disciples living in the first century AD, as well as to those reading throughout the ages, for Christ to speak of His coming again as happening NOW (first century AD) while He was still physically present on the earth?
Dear rwb:
The Kingdom of Heaven is spiritual and it occurs within a person. When it comes, it is the person's moment of salvation.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

When the Kingdom of Heaven (Christ) comes, it will not be seen with human eyes (with observation). It is a spiritual event.

Here is what Christ told His Apostles:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This verse is a part of the marriage analogy. An unbeliever is "betrothed" when they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Since the Nation of Israel was called out as a nation, the Apostles had already been betrothed. John the Baptist was sent to the Nation of Israel to make the pathway "straight" for Christ to come. The pathway is made straight with the believer's repentance from works.

The Gentiles' pathway is the same except they have never been "called out" from the world as was the Nation of Israel. Since the Pathway to Salvation begins with being "called out", all Gentiles must first be "called out" before they receive their salvation.

Gentiles are "called out" when Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is the earnest amount and is not the full payment which is required for them to be converted and saved (Eph 1:13-14).

After a Gentile believer receives the Early Rain and is called out, they are then "betrothed" to Christ. They then must wait for the Bridegroom to "come again" and take them to the wedding. This event is commonly called the Second Coming of Christ. It is the same event mentioned in Luke 17:20 which I quoted above.

Paul restates this truth in this verse:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

In this verse, Paul is also using the marriage analogy to teach his message. After a Gentile believer is "betrothed" (Early Rain), they begin their period of "waiting" for the Bridegroom to "come again" to them. However, the time of the betrothal is made, it is only considered a "visitation" by Christ and is not an "appearance". After a person receives the Early Rain and is betrothed, they will remain spiritually blind and will not be able to "see" Christ. However, when Christ comes back to his betrothed, He will give them the Latter Rain which will heal their spiritual blindness. With their spiritual blindness healed, Christ will "appear" to the believer. He will then gather His bride to heaven where the marriage ceremony will take place.

What I have just described is a spiritual event within the believer. They do not physically rise to Heaven to dwell with Christ. However, because they are now saved, the believer is said to be dwelling with Christ in heaven and is no longer dwelling on the earth. The "earth" and "heaven" represent spiritual states of being and are not physical locations.

Christ's second coming first occurred to the 120 Jewish Elect who were waiting for Him in the upper room. Christ has been "coming again" to all of His other Elect throughout this age since that time. For that reason, Christ's second coming is said to be a reoccurring event:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Joe
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Spiritual Israelite, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
This is the only thing you said that I agree with. Your false cultish universalist beliefs have been exposed and that was my goal. So, there's no point in continuing this any further.
 

rwb

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Dear rwb:
The Kingdom of Heaven is spiritual and it occurs within a person. When it comes, it is the person's moment of salvation.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

When the Kingdom of Heaven (Christ) comes, it will not be seen with human eyes (with observation). It is a spiritual event.

Here is what Christ told His Apostles:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The Kingdom of heaven is the same Kingdom of God that Christ proves had come when He came to earth a man and by the finger of God cast out devils. But the Kingdom NOW to the physical world is not physically observed, because the Kingdom of God is spiritual and is within you. And can only be known of entered when man is born again of the Spirit. As proof the Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of heaven Christ says, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" This statement proves the Kingdom of God Christ came with is of heaven.

Luke 11:20 (KJV) But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5-8 (KJV)
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:11-12 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

We don't wait for Christ to come again to set up an earthly, mortal, corruptible Kingdom for one thousand years! We're waiting for His coming to usher in the new heaven and new earth when God will reside with immortal & incorruptible man and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

You are correct about one thing. Christ did ascend to heaven after His resurrection and prepared a place where every man/woman of faith now spiritually ascends after our physical body breathes its last. Heaven is a spiritual habitation where we shall be as angels (celestial beings), where we will remain until the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, and the seventh trumpet begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no more (Rev 10).

After Satan has his "little season" Christ comes again, bringing the spirits alive with Him from heaven, believers will be caught up in immortal & incorruptible bodies to meet the Lord in the air while fire of God comes down to utterly burn up everything and everyone still alive upon this earth.
 

FaithWillDo

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The Kingdom of heaven is the same Kingdom of God that Christ proves had come when He came to earth a man and by the finger of God cast out devils. But the Kingdom NOW to the physical world is not physically observed, because the Kingdom of God is spiritual and is within you. And can only be known of entered when man is born again of the Spirit. As proof the Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of heaven Christ says, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" This statement proves the Kingdom of God Christ came with is of heaven.
Dear rwb,
You seem to be trying to correct me on truths which I already believe.

I believe: Christ is the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a spiritual Kingdom. When Christ pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon us, Christ enters us and governs us. This is our moment of salvation. At that time, Christ will gather us to dwell with Him in heaven (spiritually speaking). This all happens while we remain in the flesh.

What I have explained above occurs at the Second Coming of Christ. His coming is a reoccurring spiritual event within each of His Elect. There is NO future one-time physical & visible second coming to set up a 1000 year reign on the earth. It is not taught in scripture.

You said:
We're waiting for His coming to usher in the new heaven and new earth when God will reside with immortal & incorruptible man and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

That's right if you are speaking about a believer's moment of salvation. Christ's Kingdom comes to us spiritually when He pours out the Latter Rain (Baptism of the Spirit). At that time, we receive a New Heaven and a New Earth. The New Heaven is the mind of Christ and the Old Heaven is mankind's carnal mind. The New Earth is the new spiritual nature which the Holy Spirit gives us and the Old Earth is mankind's carnal nature. For that reason, Peter says in 2Pet 3:10-13 that the Old Earth and Old Heavens will be destroyed. It happens by the judgment of Christ which immediately follows an Elect believer's moment of salvation. This is conversion.

You said:
You are correct about one thing. Christ did ascend to heaven after His resurrection and prepared a place where every man/woman of faith now spiritually ascends after our physical body breathes its last. Heaven is a spiritual habitation where we shall be as angels (celestial beings), where we will remain until the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, and the seventh trumpet begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no more (Rev 10).

Christ did ascend to heaven to prepare a place for the Apostles. Christ then returned to them on the Day of Pentecost when He poured out the Latter Rain upon them. At that time, Christ gathered them to dwell with Him in heaven (the place He prepared). This was their Day of salvation and conversion. This is not the bodily resurrection which occurs at the end of this age. After all of mankind is resurrected, everyone will appear before the White Throne and be separated like sheep and goats. The sheep are found in the book of life and the goats will not be. This event commences the final age.

As for the Seventh Trumpet, it is teaching on the moment of salvation for each of Christ's Elect.

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The "mystery of God" is finished for these believers because they are given "eyes that can see" upon their salvation. Like the Second Coming of Christ, it is a reoccurring event within each Elect believer. This is also when the Old Earth and Old Heaven are judged and destroyed.

You said:
After Satan has his "little season" Christ comes again, bringing the spirits alive with Him from heaven, believers will be caught up in immortal & incorruptible bodies to meet the Lord in the air while fire of God comes down to utterly burn up everything and everyone still alive upon this earth.

Satan's "little season" when he is released is for the purpose of "testing" a converted Elect believer.

Rom 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Just as Christ was tested by Satan after Christ completed His 40 days of fasting in the wilderness, so will the Elect be tested. For that reason, Christ and His Elect are said to have "overcome" this world:

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

This time of testing happens before an Elect believer physically dies. It is not a future one-time event. It is a reoccurring event which began in the 1st century.

The only events left to be fulfilled are the bodily resurrections from the grave and the Lake of Fire age when the Elect will reign with Christ as Kings and Priests for the purpose of saving the rest of mankind.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Your understanding of Revelation is a mixture of "spiritual" and "carnal" understanding. The teachings of Revelation must only be understood spiritually because they are teaching on the spiritual Pathway to Salvation the Elect will travel. And because this is what they teach, Revelation says the "blessed" will "keep the sayings" of the book:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

The sayings of the prophecies are reoccurring events.

Here is a step by step list of the Pathway to Salvation the Elect will travel during their lifetimes (with the exception of the bodily resurrection which occurs at the end of this age):

The major events which occur on the Pathway to Salvation for Christ’s Elect include:

  • The receiving of the Early Rain of the Spirit and entering the church.
  • The coming of the spirit of anti-Christ to the believer and consuming of leavened bread.
  • Falling away, the Abomination of Desolation and becoming a Man of Sin.
  • Hearing and answering the call of Elijah so that the pathway for Christ is made straight.
  • The Second Coming of Christ when He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.
  • Spiritual blindness healed.
  • Marriage Supper when the believer consumes milk, bread, meat and New Wine.
  • Christ appears and gathers the believer to dwell with Him in heaven.
  • Judgment of the Day of the Lord.
  • Conversion.
  • The time of testing.
  • The bodily resurrection at the end of the age.
Joe
 
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