Imagine a World with no Christians!

[Hidden In Him]

Focus, just this one verse, not the whole Bible.

You are claiming that one verse quoted by Jerome carries more weight than all known extant Greek NT texts? By that assumption, the entire NT could be scrapped for lacking authority.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Jerome went with a different word. Why? The letters were better in Latin.
He saw a difference and picked one over the other.
Why would Saint Paul write to Romans in Greek when he could speak any language he wanted.
Why did Jerome pick the Latin over the Greek here in this place.

you do write complete rubbish! this shows your ignorance of the facts!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

And where did you learn Greek? Bob's backyard Bible academy?

just prove that I am wrong!

 

[Hidden In Him]

critical Greek New Testaments

Do you have a link by any chance?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Do you have a link by any chance?

οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] B D2 K L P Ψ 048 075 0150 0243 6 81 88 104 181 256 263 326 330 365 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1319 1573 1852 1877 1881 1912 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2464 2492 2495 Byz Lect syrp syrh copsa copbo goth eth geo2 slav (Origen1/2) (Adamantius) Theodore-Heraclea Acacius Caesarius-Nazianzus Ephraem (Titus-Bostra) Apollinaris Diodore Gregory-Nyssa Ps-Justin Chrysostom Chrysostom Theodore (Cyril1/2) Ps-Jerome Euthalius Theodoret Theodoret Cosmas Andrew John-Damascus (mssAccording to Didymus) Greek mssAccording to Pelagius Greek mssAccording to Jerome Greek mssAccording to Maximus mssAccording to Rufinus ς WH

οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] p46 Ac Adamantiusmss

κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] ‭à (A* οἱ πάντες) C F (G οὖν) 0243* 33 1241 1739 itf(mg) itg arm geo1 Origengr(1/2) Origenlat AcaciusAccording to Jerome Aphraates Didymus Jerome Cyril1/2 mssAccording to Jerome mssAccording to Augustine mssAccording to Pelagius mssAccording to Maximus

ἀναστησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] D* itar itb itd itdem (ite) itf(text) itm (ito) itx itz(vid) vg MarcionAccording to Adamantius(lat) Tertullian Jacob-Nisibis Ambrosiaster Hilary Gregory-Elvira Ambrose Rufinus Pelagius AugustineSpeculum Quodvultdeus John-Damascus Latin mssAccording to Pelagius Latin mssAccording to Augustine

κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] l1443

 

[James Macbeth]

now that you are asking, here it is. there are 4 major variants for 1 Cor 15:51

1 οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the greater majority of textual evidence, Greek and Latin, including Jerome

2. οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the sole support of the Papyri P46 Greek mss

3. κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the support of Origen in the Greek, and mostly Latin, including Jerome

4. ἀναστησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, almost only Latin support

This is the right one.
Ecce mysterium vobis dico: omnes quidem resurgemus, sed non omnes immutabimur.

1904 Greek Fathers. Close.
ἰδοὺ μυστήριον ὑμῖν λέγω· πάντες μὲν οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα,

 

[Hidden In Him]

οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] B D2 K L P Ψ 048 075 0150 0243 6 81 88 104 181 256 263 326 330 365 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1319 1573 1852 1877 1881 1912 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2464 2492 2495 Byz Lect syrp syrh copsa copbo goth eth geo2 slav (Origen1/2) (Adamantius) Theodore-Heraclea Acacius Caesarius-Nazianzus Ephraem (Titus-Bostra) Apollinaris Diodore Gregory-Nyssa Ps-Justin Chrysostom Chrysostom Theodore (Cyril1/2) Ps-Jerome Euthalius Theodoret Theodoret Cosmas Andrew John-Damascus (mssAccording to Didymus) Greek mssAccording to Pelagius Greek mssAccording to Jerome Greek mssAccording to Maximus mssAccording to Rufinus ς WH

οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] p46 Ac Adamantiusmss

κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] ‭à (A* οἱ πάντες) C F (G οὖν) 0243* 33 1241 1739 itf(mg) itg arm geo1 Origengr(1/2) Origenlat AcaciusAccording to Jerome Aphraates Didymus Jerome Cyril1/2 mssAccording to Jerome mssAccording to Augustine mssAccording to Pelagius mssAccording to Maximus

ἀναστησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] D* itar itb itd itdem (ite) itf(text) itm (ito) itx itz(vid) vg MarcionAccording to Adamantius(lat) Tertullian Jacob-Nisibis Ambrosiaster Hilary Gregory-Elvira Ambrose Rufinus Pelagius AugustineSpeculum Quodvultdeus John-Damascus Latin mssAccording to Pelagius Latin mssAccording to Augustine

κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα] l1443

I appreciate that. But what I was actually after was the link to your source to use in my own reference work. This appears copied and pasted, so I am assuming you have a link somewhere you could provide, yes?

 

[James Macbeth]

You are claiming that one verse quoted by Jerome carries more weight than all known extant Greek NT texts? By that assumption, the entire NT could be scrapped for lacking authority.

How so?
We're talking about one word.
And you have not answered my other questions.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I appreciate that. But what I was actually after was the link to your source to use in my own reference work. This appears copied and pasted, so I am assuming you have a link somewhere you could provide, yes?

this is from works on my computer, and not from online to send you a link. what do you want to know?

 

[James Macbeth]

just prove that I am wrong!

I don't have too, you did it already.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I don't have too, you did it already.

really, then show me to be wrong here by quoting my words

 

[James Macbeth]

you do write complete rubbish! this shows your ignorance of the facts!

The fact that you never knew Corinth was a Roman town... Proves that your logic is trash. And you have failed to answer a single question.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The fact that you never knew Corinth was a Roman town.

I have not even commented on this!!!

You have lost it!

 

[James Macbeth]

I have not even commented on this!!!

You have lost it!

Keep stalling...

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Keep stalling...

show WHERE I commented on Rome or Corinth????

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jerome went with a different word. Why? The letters were better in Latin.
He saw a difference and picked one over the other.
Why would Saint Paul write to Romans in Greek when he could speak any language he wanted.
Why did Jerome pick the Latin over the Greek here in this place.

If you were referring to this post here, I'm just reading it now.

I would agree with your other responses that Greek was still the primary language of the Hellenized world at the time the NT was written, not Latin.

As to why Jerome chose to write in Latin, he was writing 300 years after the fact.

How so?

What do you mean, "How so?" LoL. If Jerome's reading of 1st Corinthians 15:51 is entirely different than that of virtually the entirety of the texts that have survived to this day and Jerome himself did not supply us with a complete New Testament himself, don't you think that leaves the church a little in doubt as to if anything accurate at all has been handed down?

Heavens, Lol.

 

[James Macbeth]

show WHERE I commented on Rome or Corinth????

I have to go now, but think long and hard on your answer.

 

[James Macbeth]

If you were referring to this post here, I'm just reading it now.

I would agree with your other responses that Greek was still the primary language of the Hellenized world at the time the NT was written, not Latin.

As to why Jerome chose to write in Latin, he was writing 300 years after the fact.


What do you mean, "How so?" LoL. If Jerome's reading of 1st Corinthians 15:51 is entirely different than that of virtually the entirety of the texts that have survived to this day and Jerome himself did not supply us with a complete New Testament himself, don't you think that leaves the church a little in doubt as to if anything accurate at all has been handed down?

Heavens, Lol.

What language did Romans primary speak? It's so simple. I bet you never knew Corinth was a Roman town...
Focus, why would Saint Paul write in Greek to a town made up of mostly Romans?
So simple.
Did he not speak any language? Why only Greek?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I appreciate that. But what I was actually after was the link to your source to use in my own reference work. This appears copied and pasted, so I am assuming you have a link somewhere you could provide, yes?

I found one for you online, NT Manuscript Variant Apparatus

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

What language did Romans primary speak? It's so simple. I bet you never knew Corinth was a Roman town...
Focus, why would Saint Paul write in Greek to a town made up of mostly Romans?
So simple.
Did he not speak any language? Why only Greek?

God the Holy Spirit, Who Inspired the Writers of the New Testamant, chose Greek as the language for the New Testament, and not Latin, even though Latin was spoken at this time!