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Featured Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by jknbt, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Can we say that you "have faith" in a chair in which you refuse to sit?

    I'd like to point out in this passage you've quoted something that just jumps out at me all over. We have power.
    We can choose concerning sin. Before we could not.

    Now we are told to not let sin rule in us. As if we have the power to defeat it.

    We're told to not yeild our members as instruments of sin - as if we have the ability to not.

    Yield yourself to God, as one who is alive from the dead - Are you?

    Sin Shall Not have Dominion over you. Is that true?

    Do you believe these to be true just as stated?

    Much love!
     
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Yes, you explained it well, but the way I see the Sermon on the Mount, which Matthew 6:14-15 is a part of, is Jesus quoting the OT commandments, and then saying, but I say unto you, and it goes from and outward act to a matter of the heart. IOW it goes from the Father's surface commandments to the deeper commandments of Jesus.

    John 15:10
    10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  3. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Did you mean to say this - no typos? I agree with the first sentence, but the second (red) I don't believe.
     
  4. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    When you say "sin" are you meaning willful sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4, or unintentional trespasses, Leviticus 5:15? (sins unto death vs. sins not unto death 1 John 5:16-17; Numbers 15:22-36) I always clarify when talking about sin. Some believe "sin is sin" which is not true in the eyes of God. 1 John 3:9 are in context to 1 John 3:4, willful sins of lawlessness, not trespasses.

    Jesus intercedes for trespasses, but not for willful sins of lawlessness without repentance, and 1 John 2:1 says nothing about repentance, so it can only be trespasses unintentionally committed as in 1 John 1:7 (unintentional and unknown sins committed while walking in the Spirit which the blood of Jesus cleanses.)

    (second red) Romans 7:17 is not a Christian, but someone who has not been freed from the law of sin and death of the flesh. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

    Can you honestly say you practice any of these? Cause, I don't (since being born again of the Spirit). I committed a lot of adultery and fornication before that though, but wasn't into any of the others, of course what I did was enough! Yikes!

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Question: Heresies are one of the sins of the flesh. I'm curious if they are heresies believed (as some on the forums) or conceived, like some things out of the 1500's that have infiltrated the Church ever since.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  5. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so does that mean you want me to import those posts or not you lost me sorry
     
  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    marks I'm not either one we're just talking here right? See I think just this just becomes another way to avoid the subject and all due respect. Anything to deflect away from the Scripture that we dont wanna address see, lets talk about bbyrds feelings now that we have talked about our feelings?
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    We've entered into this discussion before, and I don't want to try to parse out this or that, and since our previous conversation I've given a lot of thought to this particular question.

    I believe the unredeemed, with only the body and life of the flesh, get up in the morning thinking about what evil they will do, and spend their day pursuing it.

    I believe there are many reasons why people do what they do, and that the corruption of the flesh is a very real factor that is true of our physical bodies. { @Not me } When I look at "sarx" (Greek - flesh) at it's usage in the Bible, I see consistently in those passages which show by context the specific meaning of the word, it seems to me invariably it's refering to the body, even sometimes meat, or to that which pertains to our physicality, such as ancestry, like, we have "fathers of our flesh", and our Heavenly Father.

    I see specific corruption in my flesh which as it's pathology works to make my mind and behavior certain ways. Even digestive flora imbalances can modify mood, creating depression, anxiety, take anxiety . . . another name for Fear. Anxiety exists as a physical condition. Depression exists as a physical depression.

    Anxiety produces the feelings of fear, and the feelings of fear tend to stir up genuine fears. Depression in the same way can stir up a lack of trust, of the feelings of faith.

    Walking in the Spirit takes one away from the evil affects of those things. Sometimes God has removed those things from me, other times He has allowed them to complete their perfect work.

    We can joy in the love of Jesus while in agonies of all sorts.

    I believe the body is corrupted, that is, damaged. I believe the damaged, corrupted body and especially brain produce an equally corrupted mind (of the flesh). I think this body may be healed by God or may not be, depending on what best serves His purposes in our lives.

    I believe God is clear in His teaching that our flesh is crucified, and we crucified unto it. We have no need, reason, obligation, or necessity to allow the mind of the flesh to direct the works of the flesh.

    We who love God wake up in the morning and want God. We want to do what pleases Him in all things.

    With that being said . . . sin comes when we are enticed, and we traipse off into sin. And it can look like a lot of things, it can be brewing in the mind for days, but what we're really seeing is not planning sin for days, then committing it, but the sin begins days before in the mind, and then continues to grow to completion.

    We can interrupt that process at any time by asserting our faith in Christ. And also by doing something else. Stop letting that brain serve evil, make it serve righteousness. Stop letting our hands serve evil . . . serving the flesh.

    God allows contrary circumstances to test us (1 Cor 10). If we respond in faith, righteous acts result. But we can forget His promises, and feel that we have no power, of that this is what we have to do, or whatever that deceptive lust of the flesh is saying to us.

    But if we remember that we've been cleansed of our sins that are past, we know we are free to not sin, that cleansing is a complete removal of sin. No need to return, remember who we are.

    And if we forget, if we end up sinning, Jesus always will intercede on our behalf. He stands up for His brothers and sisters. After all, we're not the guilty party.

    OK . . . I've written a long time, now I feel I'm rambling. I'll leave the reader to let me know if I've been completely confusing!

    :)

    Much love!
     
  8. Not me

    Not me Well-Known Member

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    @marks

    I see no disagreement with your understanding of the definition of the “flesh” I think you are on point and correct. Which also in scripture would be the same as the “body of this death” or our physical bodies.

    Our fallen nature’s are the old “us” that was crucified with Christ. That which we are to reckon dead.

    As far as my learning goes?

    Keep feeding your one and one with Jesus, for great is your reward.

    Blessings,

    Much love in Christ, Not me
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi CL,

    I did mean to say that.

    Take for example when I open the electric bill at the end of summer, and suddenly feel fear. That fear is sin, it's not trusting in God. It's a reaction my flesh has to the implications of that electric bill. It's not faith, therefore it is sin, a sin of the flesh.

    I recognize it, chose to trust instead, and put the bill on the pile to be paid, knowing that God has a wonderfully good plan for my life.

    I'm not condemned because I did not trust, but still that fear came.

    Or I'm so overcome with my anxiety to get home in time to catch the mailman that I park in the handicapped space, cut in line in the store, and snap at the clerk. The mind of the flesh is in control at those moments.

    The answer is, to return to trusting in Jesus, and then I no longer am fearful, He will provide. Trusting in Him I can just relax, and focus on doing what is good.

    On the one hand, we can say these sins can be numbered and rated, on the other hand, they are all "fruit of the poisoned tree". Even know the ax is laid at the roots. That tree has been condemned, crucified, and is judicially "done". It is finished. I'm not condemned. I am a child of God, a new tree, with it's own fruit. How much fruit? How much will I allow the flesh to steal from me?

    Much love!
     
  10. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Hmmmm. If we've talked about this before, it was before you came on my "radar."

    That sounds like you are quoting Romans 7:17 again. Either Jesus has freed us from sin and we belong to Him, or we are still a slave to sin and we belong to the devil. That's how I see it.

    I'm curious how you see Romans 8:9. Do you think we are out of our bodies like in the afterlife? We won't be free from sin until we die? I believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit is more powerful than that. I believe we are given power to not sin and given a new nature. That is what I believe flesh means in this instance - carnal nature.
     
  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Just because Christians are not slaves to sin does not automatically mean that they are sinlessly perfect. Looks like you still do not understand this very basic truth.
     
    Davy likes this.
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    You were 1stCenturyLady then. That was you, right?

    Jesus has freed us from sin and we belong to Him. If we fail to control our bodies of flesh, sin will result.

    It's like I used to be this wild animal just going around getting my teeth and claws on everything trying to fill whatever lust I had at the moment. Now I've been make a new man, no more the wild animal . . . but . . . I have that animal on a leash. It's my vehicle to interact in this material world. If I control it, make it serve me, that's what it does. But if I don't, then it will just get it's teeth and claws on things, seeking to fulfill it's lusts.

    I'm not that animal, I was, but I'm not now, but I'm the one who is to control that animal, though in the Holy Spirit, with the faith that comes from Jesus. When I let it out of control, it's my responsibility, but I'm still not that animal any more.

    Romans 8
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    "They that are after/according to the flesh", those who have the "flesh design"
    "They that are after the Spirit", those who are according to the Spirit, sharing the Spirit's pattern or design, of the same sort.

    Those after the flesh
    Carnally minded
    Enemies of God
    Not subject to God's law - lawless
    Unable to please God

    Those after the Spirit
    The Spirit is in you
    The body is dead because of sin, but
    We are alive in the Spirit because of righteousness.

    I'm not sure what you mean, If we are out of our bodies like in the afterlife.

    I believe we are in our bodies just like Jesus was in His. Jesus was born from God, and placed into a human body that was created special for Him, the Last Man.

    Just the same, we are God's spirit children who incarnate these bodies of flesh, which actually have their own mind, and their own personality, and such. But now I'm here.

    2 Cor 5 says that if this terrestrial body be dissolved, we have a body not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. And we want to be clothed upon with that body.

    1 Cor 15 talks about our mortality being clothed upon with immortality, and our corruptibility to be clothed upon with incorruptibility.

    So then I have a flesh body, but I also have a spirit body of some sort, eternal in the heavens. Close the eyes to this terrestrial body, and suddenly I'll see through the eyes of that spiritual body.

    And in my resurrect/transformation, that spiritual body will overwhelm the nature of that physical body, transforming this vile body to become like Jesus' glorious body.

    Did something there answer your questions since I'm not really sure I understood it?

    Much love!
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    When I say carnal nature, I refer to the corruption that is endemic to a flesh body, and supplies the impulse or desire for sin of whatever stripe.

    Much love!
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    I'm sorry you go through fear at times, even for a moment. It must feel awful.

    I've moved from So. California, where I giggled through the Northridge earthquake. Mainly because I jumped up to hang on to the aquarium and was getting all wet.

    When I was in California, I got off the bus after work to get in my car to go home, and there were three young men with my car door open attempting to steal it. No one was around so I walked over to them laughing my head off, and shouting, "You guys couldn't find a better car to steal, than my hunk of junk?" They all backed off from this crazy woman, and I got in the car. I noticed how they broke in from stripping the rubber from the wing window (VW-bug). So I rolled down the window and hollered over to them, "Do you have insurance?" They shook their head, no, in bewilderment. I said, "Then do you have about $60 cause that's about how much it will take to fix this window?" They shook their heads again. Then I said, "well one of you better get over here and fix my car." Two left, but one got in the car beside me and pulled out a 10" dagger. When I saw it, I said, "Don't hurt yourself with that." He didn't, nor me. He just sat there and fixed the window. Then we sat and talked for about 10 min. I asked him about his life, and if he ever went to church to find help to get his life together. Then I suggested a church in his area and made him promise to check it out.

    Another time I came home after work and the phone was ringing off the hook and my roommate just staring at it. I looked at her confused at the panicked look on her face, and went to answer it. "Don't, it's an obscene phone caller. He's been calling and calling." I just said, "Don't worry just listen. I picked up the phone and sure enough it was him. I didn't answer his question, I just asked my own about his life. He just came back with another obscene question, and I said, "you don't really want to know, you are just trying to scare me. I don't scare. I have Jesus. And then he started answering my questions. I invited him to my church, telling him it was a large church and know one would know he was an obscene phone caller. He finally hung up on me. As do every other obscene phone caller I've ever come across.

    Another time I got attacked by a serial rapist in my car. I didn't react, just let him finish. I was overpowered so couldn't prevent him anyway. Then I started asking about his life and he proceeded to tell me about growing up and his father. I listened for about an hour. Then he asked me to drive him home, which I did... A couple years later when he got out of prison for rape with a gun (only got charged for the gun, oy vey) he came and knocked on my door. I was shocked he knew where I lived. I took him down to the back patio and we sat and talked. He told me that he could only choose one person to write to from prison, and he thought of me, as I seemed kind, but decided on his best friend. I never saw him again. Don't remember his name if he told me or what happened to him after that.

    When I moved here to Tennessee, my next door neighbor called me and told me they were all in the closet because a tornado was headed our way. I thanked her, but told her I would be all right. When we hung up, I rolled over thanking God that he gave me my house, and went back to sleep. The next day there were trees down all over the neighborhood, even next door, but not even a twig down in my yard.

    Another time at work the company had lost their largest client - Warner Bros. - and layoffs were imminent. A Muslim man who I became friends with (I couldn't talk to him about Jesus, but I found I could tell him about trusting God.) During the months when we were in the dark, as they laid off groups of people, but not as to a final date which turned out to be 90% of the permanent employees, my friend would stop by all afraid, and ask me aren't you afraid? And I said no. God knows the date I am to leave here, and it isn't in the hands of this company. The lay off came. The very next day I came into eligibility for social security, 2 years of unemployment, and 1 year of mortgage insurance. I took a vacation.

    Even though I was raised in a legalistic denomination growing up, I was taught a lot of memory verses, which took hold. Even before I was Spirit filled and received power over sin, I still always chose to trust God, even though I never received an answer to prayer and wondered, at times, if He was real. But scripture said that perfect love casts out fear. Choosing to trust and my building awareness of His love has only grown and grown for the rest of my life. And after the filling, it skyrocketed. For then I KNEW He was real and spoke to me many times since 1977. One sin became highlighted, and that was worry. I never had a problem with worry growing up, being a pretty good problem solver, but as you grow older, problems seem to become adult size. Then the Scripture to be anxious for nothing warded off any pangs of anxiety.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  15. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Right, had computer trouble and wiped out access to my account. This site couldn't recognize my sign on anymore. So I had to get a new account. But I used a different avatar as I have lots of pictures of raccoons, my nightly friends and babies who I've been feeding for years.

    I'll read the rest later. I need some coffee.

    Bye for now.
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi CL,

    Thank you for sharing your testimony! These are wonderful for building faith.

    I chose fear as an example, though God has conquered fear in my heart. I grew up with fear, lived much of my life with fear, until God taught me through a panic attack with subsequent "chest stress injury" how fear was just a feeling in the body, one that can be ignored, should be ignored, because God loves me. And that when it is ignored, it tends to just fade away.

    Feelings of fear don't come very often, and when they do, I don't accept them as me. Ignored, they quickly go away.

    Like you say, all the things we would tend to worry about God already has plans for. And not that those plans are always what we would have hoped for in the beginning - we can trust God and still find the storm wiped out our house, but only if God has a reason, a purpose, for our good.

    And invariably at the end, we agree with His wisdom.

    Much love!
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This is a good word. I would echo the same.

    Much love!
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Enjoy!

    :)
     
  19. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Let me ask you a personal question about being filled with the Spirit. Did you see an overnight change, or did the Scriptures convince you and convict you to try harder with your flesh? I'm just getting some things from you I don't relate to, so I'm curious. Maybe the flesh is harder to change in a man, than in a woman, I don't know (never having been a man, hehehe) With me it was an overnight download of power over the sin of adultery - with the love of my life. No one has ever loved me as much. There was no trying, it was just no longer in my nature. But I must say, there were only a couple big sins that needed to change. Because of my parents, I never lied, and I never stole anything, even bubble gum, and was never the mean kid, always protecting the little guy. Some may just have bigger obstacles to overcome, so I can't relate to some like I can to others. My problem is, not many can relate to me, so I get a lot of hatred on the forums, not in my personal life. I don't care if someone attacks me, but I explode if someone comes on here and says that Jesus can't free us from sin as He promised. That's my Man they're lying about!
     
  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    You referred to a wild animal nature, but that YOU had to keep it under control. With me I don't have to rely on my own strength of will (or maybe I do but it doesn't seem so). I refer to nature as desire, or compulsion. It has nothing to do with physical bodily hormones or genes. It is like the joke about the frog and the scorpion in a flood. Stop me if you've heard this. hehehe During a flood a scorpion begged a frog to let him ride across the river on his back. The frog said, No, you'll sting me and kill me. The scorpion said, no I won't because then both of us will die. That convinced the frog so the scorpion jumped on his back and off they went. When they got to the middle of the river, the scorpion stung the frog. The frog cried out, why did you do that, now we will both die. And the scorpion said, I couldn't help myself, it is in my nature. But what if the nature of that scorpion supernaturally became the nature of a snail that wouldn't kill the frog. Then they would both be saved without harm. It is a change of mindset. When we are born again and become new creatures in Christ, we have the mind of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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