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Featured Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by jknbt, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    You lack reason & truth, that's why you are blocked.
    I pray God delivers you from your delusions.
     
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Everyone has sinned since Adam, and some of those do not believe they are sinning when they walk in darkness. John speaks of them in 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. They don't know Christ. To know Christ you must repent as verse 9 says, and you will be freed of all sin, then you are 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 3:9. Then as Enoch knows the verses, you are no longer a sinner, but a son of God.
     
  3. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    You don't repent, because you refuse to see your own sins. Not admitting your sinfulness because of your errors in understanding the scriptures doesn't make them not exist.
    You are deceived and promote false teachings.
     
  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    While CL may say differently on this point, I myself believe that the sins of the flesh can still occur, but that as the spirit child of God, we are not the ones committing those sins, it remains the man of flesh whom I was before I was born from God.

    We control our body of flesh, we can completely, with the power Jesus gave us in our rebirth. But by holding to the idea that we are subject to ordinances and laws, this makes the flesh all the more assertive in it's intent to violate any rule.

    The flesh bristles at the idea of God being Lord, so any law given becomes the target for disobedience.

    OH! That's what He doesn't allow. Guess what I'm going to do!!

    You can prove this to yourself any time you want to.


    Any time you are faced with a test - something contrary, big or small, and you find yourself beginning to not trust, to be drawn towards something else, something not from God,

    Realize the reality of this statement, that you are dead to sin, and alive to God, and free from the power of sin, and instead of drifting further towards sin, instead of considering the thought for even a moment, decide to trust God for life free from sin, and do something else for that next five minutes. Read of chapter of the Bible. Sing some praise. Pray. Phone a friend. Simply do what is good in the Lord instead. you can. Just five minutes.

    And when you are done . . . repeat.

    Yes, we have the tendency to fall from this sometimes.

    "Little children, I write these things to you that you may not sin. And if any does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, even Jesus Christ the righteous."

    Much love!
     
  5. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    "While CL may say differently on this point" ....pardon? says it differently? No. She says something completely different and then makes nasty accusations towards others who say as scripture does , that though we try not we do still sin.
    But why is it that you do not address that charismatic lady has stated it wrongly according to Apostle Paul? Paul states in Romans 7 we are sinners , carnal man still sins, we need sanctification, it is a gradual process that we need the help of the Holy Spirit in overcoming sin. I don't have a problem with her getting it wrong, I do have a problem with her nasty comments and wicked false allegation.
    So why is it that you ignore the mean spirited false allegation made by charimatic L & giving her a pass for calling others who disagree with her "mockers" and the wickedly false allegation that I have "called Jesus a liar" ?

    Romans 7 "

    14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    15For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do.
    16
    But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good.
    17So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
    18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
    19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.
    20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
    21I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present.
    22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.
    24Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
    25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
     
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I saw each of these, but for the same reason I didn't highlight this . . .

    I don't try to redress every violation I see, and normally address what's been directed to me, and even then not always.

    Just jumping in to give my 2 cents, that's all.

    I'd like to see everyone on this forum stop making this personal comments that divide and do not edify. Even when we disagree!

    Much love!
     
  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    You think you see sins, but Jesus did the same thing I did when He turned over the tables of the moneychangers. You disparaged Jesus. I turned over your mockery.
     
  8. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    For the same reason? what reason was that? My response was to a specific quote.
    There is a lot of selectiveness & favoritism on this forum and jumping in to comment without reading the context, makes it meaningless.
     
  9. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    So why didn't you address cl 's personal comments?
     
  10. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That reason would be, quite frankly, that I would then spend all my discretionary time chasing after people's personal comments, and I'd much rather spend the time talking doctrine, and building each other up, that talking about what's wrong with each other from our POV.

    Sometimes I'll call attention to personal comments when I feel they are seriously preventing discussion, but the last thing anyone needs, I think, is me as the self-appointed word police.

    After all, this forum is styled after the "playground" model, is it not?

    ;)

    I was really just trying to softly step in to add my 2 cents, was all. I truly hope I did not offend, and apologize if I did!

    Much love!
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully answered in my last reply . . .
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    BTW . . . did you consider what I posted?

    Much love!
     
  13. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    Ya no problem, it is just the selectivity & hypocrisy that is evident on this forum, it is the norm.
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    @marks see if you can point him in the right direction. He is quoting scriptures that are not even about Christians, but those who have never repented, and mocks true Christians. He doesn't even know why Jesus came and died for us. See if you can help him. I know you can as you know the scriptures as well as I do.

     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  15. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    You know nothing about me, but I'm not the one who doesn't believe Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Of course I am going to say something completely different, because PAUL DID! I see you still are not considering the context, but are still identifying with the man trying to keep the law with his carnal flesh. Flesh that still needs to be born again of the SPIRIT. So even though the scriptures make it clear in context, you still start with verse 14, and ignore completely verse 13; and chapter 8, the born again of the Spirit man. Here is my post from earlier when you posted the same out of context set of verses. You've read it once, and now you are willfully staying ignorant:

     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Don't you see that your "reason" comes from the carnal nature, not from a born again nature. You have never experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit that frees you from the desire to sin. That is why you identify so much with Romans 7:14-25, and refuse to open your mind and learn. You didn't even notice at the end WHO it is who can save you from that struggle, nor read the actual truth in chapter 8.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  18. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I think we have the daily walk with the Cross (Luke 9.23) with spiritual conflict; I don't see how I'm suddenly going to be 'freed' from it. The believer does indeed have the victory in Christ and His work (1 Corinthians 15.57).
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting discussion, @tzcho2 and @CharismaticLady ,

    As I said, CL, I think you'll say it a little differently than me.

    I see Romans 7 to be very much about the believer.

    I understand God to be teaching that we continue to live in the old man of flesh, who will continue in his ways if we let him. We do not have to let him, but we get deceived into it, essentially, and the work of sanctification in our lives firstly to recreated us newborn children of God, fully holy and righteous, never ever to commit sin. Notice I don't say, never again to commit sin. That which is born of God sins not. The new creation never sins, never has, and never will, and cannot, for His seed remains in him.

    The man of flesh is not yet removed, but has been crucified, and made powerless.

    Previously, we could not do other than the flesh because that's all we were. Now we are the spirit child of God. Living in the corrupted flesh.

    We have the power from God right now, if we simply believe the reality of God's deliverance of us from our sin, to refuse to commit any sin. And that's not even the good way to say it.

    When we are tempted to sin, this is a matter of the flesh wanting something, whether extra candy, or the neighbor's wife, or to avoid punishment for stealing the candy.

    We can forget that we have power from God, and just feel helpless, and that is a lie. We can forget who we are in Christ, and feel like we need that whatever it is, and that also is a lie. We can forget that we have been cleansed of our sin, and feel dirty, disqualified, and that is a lie.

    We we forget, when we become deceived by the lusts of the flesh, that's when sin happens. The joy is, it is no longer I that sin - the new creation - rather, it is the sin that lives in me. I know nothing good lives in me - that is, in my flesh. In the body of this death.

    So the flesh does what it always has done, it wars with God. But I'm on God's side, I serve Him. And He declares me dead to sin, and therefore under no obligation to do anything it wants.

    I said, "refuse to commit any sin", that's not a good way to say it.

    In truth, if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. When we notice the flesh begin to assert itself - errant thoughts - we assert ourselves - children of God in Christ - by trusting in Jesus to deliver us from all evil, and to maintain our life of faithfulness and fruitfulness and love.

    God's intent is that we do not sin, and He makes that life doable. And if we do sin, we have Jesus advocating for us.

    The most effective weapon against sin, in my view, is knowing Jesus freed me from it, and likewise freed me from all law, and therefore any condemnation from sin. It's just not a thing now. If we do sin, that means there's a part of life lost forever, and maybe more damage done.

    But God always knew about it, and has long planned His response to mold us into more effective children.

    I think the greatest truth towards an abundant life is found in the song, Turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in His wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace!

    Isn't He beautiful!
    Outshining stars and sun!

    Much love!
     
  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    farouk, my friend, it is nothing we can do ourselves; otherwise that would be "works." I was in church for 30 years before I discovered the key. True repentance. That was 30 years believing in Jesus, but not born again of the Spirit and not saved! When God knows you really want to be purged of all desire to sin and to receive His power over sin so you can truly serve Him, He does the rest. That is when He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit. It is nothing merely imputed, it is a true experience. I felt it from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. The carnal nature must weigh a ton, because suddenly I felt light as a feather. I received the divine nature of Christ. Only His Spirit in you defeats sin at its core. Just as it was not in His nature to sin, now neither is it in your inherited nature to commit willful sins of wickedness/lawlessness. It is also when the fruit of the Spirit starts growing to maturity. Until completely mature, a Spirit-filled Christian who is even walking daily in the Spirit will commit unintentional sins of immaturity called trespasses. They are NOT willful sins of lawlessness, as those would be sins unto death. Trespasses are still sins, but NOT unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. As long as we learn to immediately forgive others their trespasses against us, the blood of Jesus continually cleanses those sins. 1 John 1:7, and 1 John 2:1. Matthew 6:14-15. Jesus is our Advocate for sins not unto death - trespasses. As there is no mention of repenting in 1 John 2:1, these are not willful sins of lawlessness that would require complete turning away from - repentance.

    I know we've discussed this before, and a while ago I also sent you my testimony, so is it getting any clearer now?

    cc: @tzcho2, @marks
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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