Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

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marks

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You referred to a wild animal nature, but that YOU had to keep it under control. With me I don't have to rely on my own strength of will (or maybe I do but it doesn't seem so). I refer to nature as desire, or compulsion. It has nothing to do with physical bodily hormones or genes. It is like the joke about the frog and the scorpion in a flood. Stop me if you've heard this. hehehe During a flood a scorpion begged a frog to let him ride across the river on his back. The frog said, so, you'll sting me and kill me. The scorpion said, no I won't because then both of us will die. That convinced the frog so the scorpion jumped on his back and off they went. When they got to the middle of the river, the scorpion stung the frog. The frog cried out, why did you do that, now we will both die. And the scorpion said, I couldn't help myself, it is in my nature. But what if the nature of that scorpion supernaturally became the nature of a snail that wouldn't kill the frog. Then they would both be saved without harm. It is a change of mindset. When we are born again and become new creatures in Christ, we have the mind of Christ.
Hi CL,

Or . . . what if the scorpion's stinger was removed? Where is thy sting?

I find those desires and compulsions to be etched into the brain at least to some degree, at least in me, and I speculate that as we are raised by those with corrupted bodies, corruption gets built into us as we grow up, again, at least to some degree. Many people have fairly reasonably healthy upbringings, and grow into extremely functional people. Yet still all share in the corruption, which began with the fruit from a forbidden tree. I'm not prepared to quibble over all this, it's how I find myself, what my research shows, and as a model of what's happening, it seems to work exceedingly well. But that's really all I can say.

Before I learned about what faith really is, and what grace really is, and what God really did, I tried to control myself, and was a mess as you can well imagine.

I just got your "hehehe"! That's how long it takes . . . LOL!!!

That's what it means to me about living according to law, to be constantly monitoring your behavior to see if it conforms to whatever law it is you are endeavoring to keep. And then trying to modify that behavior as best we know how so that it does conform. And that means my eyes were firmly fixed on . . . me.

But now that I know that it's entirely by faith in Jesus that I have grace to stand, I trust in Him.

Jesus guides me in what is good for me to do.
Jesus empowers me to perform all that He wants.
Jesus intercedes for me any time it goes awry.
Jesus fills me with His Own faith, making His life to be my life, transforming me to become just like Him.
Oh this is fun!
Jesus reveals the greatness, the absolute magnificence of His deep and intimate love for us, for me.
And Jesus sets me back on my walk as needed.

My part?

. . . so I'll turn my eyes upon you, Lord, look full in your wonderful face! And the things of earth they grow strangely dim in the Light of Your Glory and Grace!

Much love!


 

CharismaticLady

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Or . . . what if the scorpion's stinger was removed? Where is thy sting?
Cool!

That's what it means to me about living according to law, to be constantly monitoring your behavior to see if it conforms to whatever law it is you are endeavoring to keep. And then trying to modify that behavior as best we know how so that it does conform. And that means my eyes were firmly fixed on . . . me.

But that is exactly what the man in Romans 7 is doing. He is trying to live by the Scriptures. So did I as a child from good parents and memory verses. That is not what Christianity is all about because the Romans 7 guy is not free from the sin that wants to break those rules.

What does "grace" mean to you? You first, then I'll tell you mine and see if we agree or not.

I'll let you respond, and will be back later. Don't forget to add scriptures about grace.
 
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marks

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Let me ask you a personal question about being filled with the Spirit. Did you see an overnight change, or did the Scriptures convince you and convict you to try harder with your flesh? I'm just getting some things from you I don't relate to, so I'm curious. Maybe the flesh is harder to change in a man, than in a woman, I don't know (never having been a man, hehehe) With me it was an overnight download of power over the sin of adultery - with the love of my life. No one has ever loved me as much. There was no trying, it was just no longer in my nature. But I must say, there were only a couple big sins that needed to change. Because of my parents, I never lied, and I never stole anything, even bubble gum, and was never the mean kid, always protecting the little guy. Some may just have bigger obstacles to overcome, so I can't relate to some like I can to others. My problem is, not many can relate to me, so I get a lot of hatred on the forums, not in my personal life. I don't care if someone attacks me, but I explode if someone comes on here and says that Jesus can't free us from sin as He promised. That's my Man they're lying about!
I'm reading in reverse order, so I just came to this.

You're what I referred to in that we have the human condition to varying degrees. We have different lives, with different paths prepared by God.

Interesting question you ask!

What I've learned is that Faith overcomes. At this moment, I have joy and peace in my heart and mind, as I know Jesus, He loves me, He is here with me, and He will never ever ever ever leave me.

So now it's not just, He touched me, and made me whole, rather, He's shown me what He's given to each of us, and how to walk in it. It is entirely by His power. when it's not, things don't work so well. The best thing to do is rest in trust in Jesus.

I may have physical issues, and I do. And those issues are opportunities to act according to the flesh - what the body wants - or according to Christ. And we have the mind of Christ!

Much love!
 
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marks

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Cool!



But that is exactly what the man in Romans 7 is doing. He is trying to live by the Scriptures. So did I as a child from good parents and memory verses. That is not what Christianity is all about because the Romans 7 guy is not free from the sin that wants to break those rules.

What does "grace" mean to you? You first, then I'll tell you mine and see if we agree or not.

I'll let you respond, and will be back later. Don't forget to add scriptures about grace.
Romans 7:14 ff teaches me that even though sin impulse yet exist, its a holdover of the flesh, and is part of the flesh, not the new me.

Grace, perhaps the best thought on grace is . . . My grace is sufficient for you. Sufficient for all God wants. The Holy Spirit in me imparts to me the divine nature, holy and righteous, according to His promise to forgive and give me faith to overcome.

I'll be thinking more on this question, I anticipate a more lengthy and most enjoyable post to write! I love discussing these things!

In my case, God wanted to both give me victory the easy way, with His touch, and the hard way, to be instructed in how to master the flesh - In His power, and in victory, by relying on Him. His work is finished, so my rest is complete.

In this my faith is certain, and I have practical knowledge to share. In the Lord, is my one hope.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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I'm reading in reverse order, so I just came to this.

You're what I referred to in that we have the human condition to varying degrees. We have different lives, with different paths prepared by God.

Interesting question you ask!

I'm linking to another post, this will give you more background.

Please explain this.

Now with all that said, while I had been a Christian quite a number of years, and had grown much, and serving fruitfully, even so, I was not free from sin, or so I thought. Desires and compulsions, as you said. But I did not believe I was or could be free.

God started working, and during the course of a number of months, a great deal happened, both in my life, and in my body, to draw my dependance off of myself, and onto Jesus. The damage from my childhood persisted in enacting great violence upon my life and my being, if you will.

Many nights God spoke to me so directly from the Bible, but on this night, just longing to be free from these evils that drove me, I was reading Psalm 129:

1 Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth, may Israel now say:
2 Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth: yet they have not prevailed against me.
3 The plowers plowed upon my back: they made long their furrows.

About this point I'm in tears, reading, my God holding me, knowing me,

4 The Lord is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked.

And as I read the word . . . cut . . . it felt like something inside was cut, and this dark something fell away from my heart. I hardly know what to think, I was afraid to believe it, I just put my Bible down, and went to bed, figuring, I'll know.

A week passed. There was no knowledge of sin, only peace in Jesus, singing, dwelling on Scriptures, doing things for others, enjoying my time with God. And no hint of darkness.

More weeks passed. Had I been truly healed? Oh it was so exciting, though there was something kind of gnawing at me. My friend, he's got it as bad and worse than me, and what do I tell him? "Hope it happens for you too!" Still, so good to finally be alive in Christ in the way that overcomes!

And then, the answer came. No, I had not been delivered of those things that are so good at entangling me, as my flesh began to reassert itself.

Finding myself back in my previous state, there was something that would never be the same. I had seen that kind of life, I knew it was real, and it is most clearly in the Word. All you have to do is to believe exactly what it says.

As God continued to work with me, there was a day that came when He showed me (from a TV show of all things) just what was happening in my brain, and as I researched, and realized, I could not continue, and compulsions denied turned very quickly to "major" or "clinical" depression. That, panic attacks and anxiety, various other fun experiments have shown me what this all means.

I read Scripture, God tells me about how things are, I look into my life, and I find it so.

And what I've learned is that Faith overcomes. At this moment, I have joy and peace in my heart and mind, as I know Jesus, He loves me, He is here with me, and He will never ever ever ever leave me.

So now it's not just, He touched me, and made me whole, rather, He's shown me what He's given to each of us, and how to walk in it. It is entirely by His power. when it's not, things don't work so well. The best thing to do is rest in trust in Jesus.

I may have physical issues, and I do. And those issues are opportunities to act according to the flesh - what the body wants - or according to Christ. And we have the mind of Christ!

Sorry for all the verbosity!

Much love!

This was very touching, and I read the other post you linked as well. I'm sorry you had a painful childhood. Even though my childhood was nothing like yours, I still have "tapes" running in my head of words/curses spoken over me. Though Spirit-filled, those tapes have not been erased. And throughout my life those words have taken a life of their own in shaping who I am and how I stay alone most of the time. But I'm not unhappy, because I'm never really alone. Jesus spoke to me in 1977 and told me He wanted to be my love, and He wanted to be my security. All my love and trust is to and in Him.
 

CharismaticLady

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Romans 7:14 ff teaches me that even though sin impulse yet exist, its a holdover of the flesh, and is part of the flesh, not the new me.

Grace, perhaps the best thought on grace is . . . My grace is sufficient for you. Sufficient for all God wants. The Holy Spirit in me imparts to me the divine nature, holy and righteous, according to His promise to forgive and give me faith to overcome.

I'll be thinking more on this question, I anticipate a more lengthy and most enjoyable post to write! I love discussing these things!

In my case, God wanted to both give me victory the easy way, with His touch, and the hard way, to be instructed in how to master the flesh - In His power, and in victory, by relying on Him. His work is finished, so my rest is complete.

In this my faith is certain, and I have practical knowledge to share. In the Lord, is my one hope.

Much love!

Though Romans 7 is not about the life of a Christian, I see you are still struggling with the wounds inflicted on you, as I do curses. And little by little the Spirit is winning over those wounds as they act out in the flesh. But as Jesus was at the end of my cursed life, Jesus is at the end of your wounds.

God knew before I was born that I would struggle with the words of that curse, and He wanted to be there when I was alone in grief and despair. Now it doesn't matter that the words of the curse came true, for where sin abounds, grace abounds more.
 
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marks

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This was very touching, and I read the other post you linked as well. I'm sorry you had a painful childhood. Even though my childhood was nothing like yours, I still have "tapes" running in my head of words/curses spoken over me. Though Spirit-filled, those tapes have not been erased. And throughout my life those words have taken a life of their own in shaping who I am and how I stay alone most of the time. But I'm not unhappy, because I'm never really alone. Jesus spoke to me in 1977 and told me He wanted to be my love, and He wanted to be my security. All my love and trust is to and in Him.
I think that a big part of the gift I was given from God was that things that I think are true to some degree in everyone, I've been able to get a very good look at, and that God has given me a faith to believe His Word, and has used it to explain me to me.

But I think this is true for everyone, we are raised in corruption of the flesh, and it affects us. And I think being generally dead in sin most likely takes it's toll as we try to mature, at least til we're reborn. But even still God protects us lifelong in His predestination. He delivers us from all true evil, and what evil He allows was intended for evil by He intended it for good.

Faith overcomes. I trust in Jesus right now, and that tape plays. Oh, and Consuming Fire going in the background at the moment.


Good Godly input is important!

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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And I think being generally dead in sin most likely takes it's toll as we try to mature, at least til we're reborn.

Do you believe that when we are "reborn" it is when we die and receive our immortal physical bodies?
 

marks

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Though Romans 7 is not about the life of a Christian, I see you are still struggling with the wounds inflicted on you, as I do curses. And little by little the Spirit is winning over those wounds as they act out in the flesh. But as Jesus was at the end of my cursed life, Jesus is at the end of your wounds.

God knew before I was born that I would struggle with the words of that curse, and He wanted to be there when I was alone in grief and despair. Now it doesn't matter that the words of the curse came true, for where sin abounds, grace abounds more.
It was actually hard to put a like on your post, because it is hard, people wounded when love should abound. But then I believe these happen to ensure love does abound.

I believe each of us will find that over the course of our lives, we will continue to grow in these areas where we have been weak. And we may find complete victory in many or all of these things, and we may find new areas of weakness we had not suspected before.

In it all I believe the words to live is Christ will be ever more a description of our lives. When we read the Bible, the parts we like, is that describing me? It can be if it's not already.

Any time I realize that I'm not on that track, all I need to do is remember Jesus, Who He is, what He did for me. And nothing else matters.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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No, I believe that we are reborn as we come to faith in Jesus. Maybe invisible at first, but if real it will grow.

Much love!

For me I believe I was reborn when my nature was dramatically changed and I was filled with His Spirit. But that was 30 years after I first started believing and trusting in Jesus. Did you ever read my testimony? I've shared it a few times on here, but if you haven't I'll send it to you in your inbox.
 

marks

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For me I believe I was reborn when my nature was dramatically changed and I was filled with His Spirit. But that was 30 years after I first started believing and trusting in Jesus. Did you ever read my testimony? I've shared it a few times on here, but if you haven't I'll send it to you in your inbox.
I haven't, thank you!

the when of it all . . . it's an interesting discussion, but ultimately God is there throughout, just as He is even now with those who do not yet believe, but will.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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I haven't, thank you!

the when of it all . . . it's an interesting discussion, but ultimately God is there throughout, just as He is even now with those who do not yet believe, but will.

Much love!

Okay, watch for mail.