Do you think that serving one's country in the military forces is a criminal act?
Is it ok for a Christian to kill people?
- Thread starter ahigherway
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Do you think that serving one's country in the military forces is a criminal act?
Oh I'm sorry I assumed you had served in the military and understood. What country do you reside?
If you can't define your own term "serving" how am I supposed to know what you mean?
Read the Sermon on the Mount. The bottom line is:
Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be that find it.
Before I was a Christian I tried to join but was not eligible. After becoming Christian I would not. Ok? Now please define "serving".
Ducky, you have made your point: Anyone who fires a weapon in the military is killing babies.
Feel free to continue to stand in judgement. No one is stopping you.
And enjoy the protection that those in uniform bring so that you can state proudly on a public web site that you are a Christian and not have to fear losing your job or getting a 3:00am knock on your door and suddenly your friends and family have no idea where you are.
Now this is the point where you state that as a Christian you would welcome that.
Eventually you will get your wish, but thankfully, for those that are still lost and need to hear the message, that isn't happening yet.
Thank you US Military.
Feel free to continue to stand in judgement. No one is stopping you.
And enjoy the protection that those in uniform bring so that you can state proudly on a public web site that you are a Christian and not have to fear losing your job or getting a 3:00am knock on your door and suddenly your friends and family have no idea where you are.
Now this is the point where you state that as a Christian you would welcome that.
Eventually you will get your wish, but thankfully, for those that are still lost and need to hear the message, that isn't happening yet.
Thank you US Military.
Jesus told us that thefirst commandment was to love God. Inorder to love God one needs to hear his Word and live that Word.
Jesus told us to loveour enemies. We are to conquer evilwith Good.
(Matthew 10:37-39)“ "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthyof me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sakewill find it.
If one would rather tryto save his or her father, mother, son or daughter than obey his or her God,then they are not worthy of God.
People really don’trealize that God is in control and his will be done. If God allows people to do evil, then who are we to try andchange what God allows?
Christians before Constantine the Great were pacifist. Early Christians knew what Jesus said andwanted. When the Church became Roman,it stopped following Jesus.
It is a choice. Nobody can force anyone to shoot at anyone.
I didn't ask anyone to kill for me.
World Government will soon come. It is God's will for this EVIL world and faithless 'Christianity'.
Thank you Jesus! for protecting me and mine.
True indeed, but that has nothing to do will killing 'for his friends'. Jesus commands in the Sermon on the Mount clearly show why "FEW there be that find it". Most 'Christians' reject them.
eesh? My friend, Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world. You can't be a citizen of both. When Jesus prayed in John 17 he said of his disciples, they are in the world but not of if. Paul said that God had translated them out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His Son.
Yes, there will be a final test.
You are correct, and it is simply a matter of faith. Does one have faith that God will protect them? If not they protect themselves.
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ahigherway, on 02 March 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:
...Can Christians kill other people?
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Absolutely not!!!!
Spend some time tracing the "Just War Theory", (inventors = Augustine and Thomas Aquinas).
ahigherway, on 02 March 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:...Can Christians kill other people?
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Absolutely not!!!!
Spend some time tracing the "Just War Theory", (inventors = Augustine and Thomas Aquinas).
We are told we are accountable for taking the life of another.
Of course God didn't make King David pay in this way even though he killed thousands in battle. King David was called by God a man after His own heart. King David died an old man in his own bed.
However we are under the New Covenant of Grace and this is what the New Testament has on this topic.
This is a hard question. However, we can see that God does see the difference between cold calculated scheming to take someone's life and the taking of someone's life unintentionally or without malice.
I am of the opinion you can fight for your country. War has been a big part of this Earth's History and God has not held soldiers accountable for doing their duty. Go beyond that as some soldiers have then you certainly have gone beyond what is acceptable.
All sin is forgivable except Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, so that a soldier that kills another person can receive forgiveness for the shedding of another man's blood.
I think the difference is wether or not you are a Christian a "Saved Believer". All sinners are going to Eternal Damnation anyway. If you are Saved you have also forgivness. A non-Christian soldier is going to be going to Everlating Torment even if they never shoot dead another person.
No Christian certainly should be happy about killing another person.
Of course God didn't make King David pay in this way even though he killed thousands in battle. King David was called by God a man after His own heart. King David died an old man in his own bed.
However we are under the New Covenant of Grace and this is what the New Testament has on this topic.
This is a hard question. However, we can see that God does see the difference between cold calculated scheming to take someone's life and the taking of someone's life unintentionally or without malice.
I am of the opinion you can fight for your country. War has been a big part of this Earth's History and God has not held soldiers accountable for doing their duty. Go beyond that as some soldiers have then you certainly have gone beyond what is acceptable.
All sin is forgivable except Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, so that a soldier that kills another person can receive forgiveness for the shedding of another man's blood.
I think the difference is wether or not you are a Christian a "Saved Believer". All sinners are going to Eternal Damnation anyway. If you are Saved you have also forgivness. A non-Christian soldier is going to be going to Everlating Torment even if they never shoot dead another person.
No Christian certainly should be happy about killing another person.
I believe that in war it's "Okay" as in a nessisary evil.
I also believe that all governments and wars are directed by God. There is a time for war, I don't believe a soldier who is fighting for his country is commiting a sin. Although it can be a sin, seems there should be an appropriate amount of sadness and respect for the dead that should be observed, if it's enjoyable, it's absolutely a sin.
As for someone trying to kill my family, well, if there's a way to stop it, I will by any means. One thing though, I wouldn't try to kill the person attacking my family.
Even though I train martial arts, if someone held a gun to my head and demanded my possessions, I'll hand them over. Even if someone was attacking me or my family, I wouldn't intentionally kill the guy even though I have the means.
Death penalty, hmmmm, I'm not so sure about. Mostly it's one wicked person killing another. Which is worse though? To live as dead in a tomb for your whole life, or to die?
I'm certain everyone of us would have a different opinion if one of our kids were brutally murdered, or our husband or wife or grandma or anyone we love.
I also believe that all governments and wars are directed by God. There is a time for war, I don't believe a soldier who is fighting for his country is commiting a sin. Although it can be a sin, seems there should be an appropriate amount of sadness and respect for the dead that should be observed, if it's enjoyable, it's absolutely a sin.
As for someone trying to kill my family, well, if there's a way to stop it, I will by any means. One thing though, I wouldn't try to kill the person attacking my family.
Even though I train martial arts, if someone held a gun to my head and demanded my possessions, I'll hand them over. Even if someone was attacking me or my family, I wouldn't intentionally kill the guy even though I have the means.
Death penalty, hmmmm, I'm not so sure about. Mostly it's one wicked person killing another. Which is worse though? To live as dead in a tomb for your whole life, or to die?
I'm certain everyone of us would have a different opinion if one of our kids were brutally murdered, or our husband or wife or grandma or anyone we love.
Some good posts here :)
My opinion: Murder is not defined as merely killing someone, it is defined as killing someone unjustly with evil intent.
Jews were told not to murder, but yet killing Philistines was fine....as Christians we understand that God is not contradicting Himself like most falsely accuse Him of.... but that it is a simple case of needing to judge intent. God could however not make His intent clearly known to anyone until Jesus...hence all the laws to the Jews.
To kill in self defense is perfectly acceptable, though the purity of the intention being self defence would need to be judged. As far as being in an army goes....NO Christian is excempt for killing if they are sent to war by a Hitler or Saddam....BUT if the leaders are fairly sane / just and the enemy is a clearly evil threatening your homes safety....then it is a no braniner.
Christians should avoid joining an army, fighting an enemy that is not threatening their safety and is not clearly evil....and should conscription for such an army be compulsory... they would just need to walk closer then most to God every step of the war....leading those in their platoon to Christ by their humane actions.
My opinion: Murder is not defined as merely killing someone, it is defined as killing someone unjustly with evil intent.
Jews were told not to murder, but yet killing Philistines was fine....as Christians we understand that God is not contradicting Himself like most falsely accuse Him of.... but that it is a simple case of needing to judge intent. God could however not make His intent clearly known to anyone until Jesus...hence all the laws to the Jews.
To kill in self defense is perfectly acceptable, though the purity of the intention being self defence would need to be judged. As far as being in an army goes....NO Christian is excempt for killing if they are sent to war by a Hitler or Saddam....BUT if the leaders are fairly sane / just and the enemy is a clearly evil threatening your homes safety....then it is a no braniner.
Christians should avoid joining an army, fighting an enemy that is not threatening their safety and is not clearly evil....and should conscription for such an army be compulsory... they would just need to walk closer then most to God every step of the war....leading those in their platoon to Christ by their humane actions.
This is complex question that has both a yes and no answer depending on the circumstances. Did the Jews not have the commandment "Thou shall not kill" yet God approved of the killing of a person for his or her sins if they were found to have broken a law punishable by death. Did God not command his people to kill everyone including the children and animals in towns because they were so wicked?
The entire bible deals with good vs evil on nearly every page. Both God and Jesus both agree it is best not to kill and we should not kill but rather love one each other. Does this mean that if a town full of Christians is invaded by enemies we should just sit down,stretch out our neck and wait to be killed? Should we not fight and do nothing? If you read the bible from cover to cover there is nothing written saying we should ever just sit back and be taken advantage of by our enemies. Both God and Jesus wants us to prevail over our enemies each and every time.
The bible states that killing a person in self defense is allowed as written here...
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; Exodus 22:2
Jesus said...."My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." John 18:36.
Jesus said "fight". Clearly he supports fighting back in the face of danger.
Jesus also said...He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
Jesus meets a high ranking officer in the military....
5When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, appealing to him 6and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, in terrible distress." 7And he said to him, "I will come and cure him." 8The centurion answered, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only speak the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes, and to another, 'Come,' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this,' and the slave does it." 10When Jesus heard him, he was amazed and said to those who followed him, "Truly I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith. Matthew 8:5-10
This website pretty much sums it up...
http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html
Question: "What does the Bible say about war?"
Answer: Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.
In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).
Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).
It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?
War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).
The entire bible deals with good vs evil on nearly every page. Both God and Jesus both agree it is best not to kill and we should not kill but rather love one each other. Does this mean that if a town full of Christians is invaded by enemies we should just sit down,stretch out our neck and wait to be killed? Should we not fight and do nothing? If you read the bible from cover to cover there is nothing written saying we should ever just sit back and be taken advantage of by our enemies. Both God and Jesus wants us to prevail over our enemies each and every time.
The bible states that killing a person in self defense is allowed as written here...
"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; Exodus 22:2
Jesus said...."My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." John 18:36.
Jesus said "fight". Clearly he supports fighting back in the face of danger.
Jesus also said...He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
Jesus meets a high ranking officer in the military....
5When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, appealing to him 6and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, in terrible distress." 7And he said to him, "I will come and cure him." 8The centurion answered, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only speak the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes, and to another, 'Come,' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this,' and the slave does it." 10When Jesus heard him, he was amazed and said to those who followed him, "Truly I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith. Matthew 8:5-10
This website pretty much sums it up...
http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html
Question: "What does the Bible say about war?"
Answer: Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.
In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).
Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).
It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?
War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).
I fully agree with this Thomas, and I appreciate you posting it. There is also what one would call "the law of the land" meaning the right to defend one's self and/or family, others. This is also shown in the bible many times. I do not think I can add much more to this at this time. I think you have covered it well. ;)
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