Jesus Christ Asserts Himself As YAHWEH

[Cooper]

ah, most of the CoE do not believe in the Bible's Teachings anyway! and the rest have faulty theology.

You don't know much.
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[Cooper]

In my almost 40 years of being a born again Christian, I have NEVER even once doubted this. Even before I took up Greek studies, which was to witness to Jehovah's Witnesses!

You do not come across like that, more like an anti-Trinitarian, ripping John 1 apart.
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[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Then I must have misunderstood your prior posts wherein in appeared you were saying Jesus and God were distinct and separate person's.
My apologies.

the Father and Son are indeed "distinct", but not "separate" Persons, as their "nature" is One.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You do not come across like that, more like an anti-Trinitarian, ripping John 1 apart.
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care to explain how my OP, and ANY of my posts are "anti-Trinitarian"?

 

[Cooper]

care to explain how my OP, and ANY of my posts are "anti-Trinitarian"?

I thought your OP was good, but tonight I got an entirely different impression, anyway, I'm going to bed. By the way in the CofE as you may know, there is the High Church with all the incense, candles and regalia etc that reminds me of Catholicism, and then, what I believe people call the low church where total immersion is practiced and sometimes the gifts of the Spirit manifest. My background has always been non-conformist, Methodist, Baptist etc. I spent most of my life in the Elim Foursquare and am totally Bible based as it is writ. I do not tolerate spin and am always wary when people use the Hebrew or the Greek, to support their view which in my experience is the method the spin doctors use.
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[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I thought your OP was good, but tonight I got an entirely different impression, anyway, I'm going to bed. By the way in the CofE as you may know, there is the High Church with all the incense, candles and regalia etc that reminds me of Catholicism, and then, what I believe people call the low church where total immersion is practiced and sometimes the gifts of the Spirit manifest. My background has always been non-conformist, Methodist, Baptist etc. I spent most of my life in the Elim Foursquare.
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Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Three distinct Persons are one essence or nature

 

[Cooper]

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Three distinct Persons are one essence or nature

Yes. See my signature.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes. See my signature.

What is your problem is using the Original languages that the Holy Bible is written in

 

[Cooper]

What is your problem is using the Original languages that the Holy Bible is written in

Some words do not translate exactly and this enables people to apply a different meaning.
Lights out.
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[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Some words do not translate exactly and this enables people to apply a different meaning.
Lights out.
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That is why grammar is very important

 

[Amazed@grace]

the Father and Son are indeed "distinct", but not "separate" Persons, as their "nature" is One.

If by "distinct" you mean that God incarnate in Jesus is distinguished by being holy spirit in mortal form, I agree.

 

[Riverwalker]

Jesus Created everything with the Father and the Holy Spirit

Jesus is the Father And The Holy Spirit :) These three are one
Brain squuze

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Jesus is the Father And The Holy Spirit :) These three are one
Brain squuze

so when Jesus prayed, He did so to Himself? When He said that He would send Another (one other than Himself, as the Greek has it), Who comes from BESIDES The Father, this means nothing?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If by "distinct" you mean that God incarnate in Jesus is distinguished by being holy spirit in mortal form, I agree.

No, that Jesus Christ is a distinct Person from the Father, and Holy Spirit. Which is very clear in Matthew 28:19

 

[Riverwalker]

You will notice that the verse starts with "in the beginning" which is beyond that of Genesis 1.1 to eternity. Creation is mentioned in verse 3. So this verse 1 refers to the eternal relationship between the Word and the Father, as 2 distinct Persons

You simply cannot stuff the Triune Nature of God into the box the size of the human mind

God is three, God is one

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

John 10:30
I and My Father are one.

You cannot insist that God comply with Human Standards

 

[Amazed@grace]

No, that Jesus Christ is a distinct Person from the Father, and Holy Spirit. Which is very clear in Matthew 28:19

OK, now I understand why I had thought I'd misunderstood your other posts.

If you don't mind my observation here, I'm thinking you are contradicting yourself. First you say you believe Jesus was God. Now you say the above.

Jesus cannnot be a distinct person from the father and also be God, as you said earlier you believe.
Jesus was God. His image and likeness to humans made him appear fistinctly human, flesh,blood, bone. However, he, like all that exists, was both of and from God and as such was precise in that he knew and told us this.
"I and the father are one."

Matthew 28 was altered from its original.
Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible

This I believe is obvious, and lends it's presence to the charge the bible contradicts itself. Which I believe it does and due to such manipulations of text.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[DuckieLady]

“This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’” - Matthew 11:10

Jesus is here freely quoting from the Prophet Malachi

Mal. 3:1 from the Hebrew:

“Behold, I send My Messenger, And he shall make ready a way before Me.”

Greek Old Testament (LXX):

Exodus 23:10

“And behold I send My Messenger before thy face, That He may guard thee in thy way.”

The first line of the quotation in Matthew is found verbatim in Exodus 23:20, in the Greek version of the Old Testament, which was completed over 100 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, and from older Hebrew manuscripts that are used for the Masoretic Text, which dates from about the 5th to 10th centuries A.D. The Messenger in Exodus is none other than Who is known as “The Messenger (or, Angel) of the Lord”, Who is Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, in His preincarnational Appearances in the Old Testament. There are numerous passages in the Old Testament, that clearly identify “The Angel of The Lord”, as Yahweh Himself. As is very clear from the account in Exodus chapter 3, with Moses and the burning bush.

In verse 2 we read, “And The Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush”. In verse 4 it says, “When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”.

It is clear that the Person Who appeared in this bush, was The Angel of The Lord. We then read that Yahweh saw that Moses turned to see the burning bush. It then goes on to say that Elohim called to Moses out of the bush, and Moses responds to Him. There is no evidence in this passage that even suggests that there was more than one Person in the bush. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, are never in Scripture identified as The Angel of The Lord, Who here in Exodus 3, is also identified as Yahweh and Elohim! The words in Exodus 3:14, “I am Who I am”, were spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the ONLY Person of the Godhead, in this account with Moses! In verse 15 The Angel of The Lord, tells Moses, ““Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The Lord (YAHWEH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.”. Who can doubt that Jesus Christ, is the Eternal, Uncreadted Almighty God, Who is YAHWEH?

We shall see from Jesus' own words in Matthew 11:10 (also, Mark 1:1-3; Luke 7:27), that He makes a direct and unambiguous claim for Himself to be the Yahweh of the Old Testament. It must be noted, that this claim does not in any way deny that The Father and Holy Spirit are also Yahweh.

In the original words found in Malachi 3:1, where the Speaker is Yahweh. The Greek of Matthew 11:10 ( Mark 1:1-3; Luke 7:27), the words are neither from the Hebrew or Greek (LXX) of the passage in Malachi. Instead, The Lord Jesus Christ, on His own Authority, has changed the words, so that they refer directly to Himself, what is in Malachi, of Yahweh. Jesus has changed the first person, “before Me (μου)”, to the second person, “before thee (σου)”. In the passage in Malachi, Yahweh speaks of the “messenger”, who is John the Baptist, as His forerunner, “going before Him”. Jesus, by changing the pronoun, appropriates what Yahweh Speaks in Malachi, to Himself, and makes John the Baptist as His own “messenger”, who went before Him! In the passage in Malachi, we also have the Coming of the “the Messenger (Angel) of the Covenant”, Who is “the Lord ('âdôn) Whom you seek”, before Whom John the Baptist went to “prepare the Way”!

Matthew 3:3, and the other Gospels, also teaches that John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Yahweh, as in Jesus Christ, “God manifested in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16. Paul's words)

“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the Lord, make His paths straight.”

In the original verse in Isaiah 40:3, it reads, “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the LORD (Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God”

By using this passage in Isaiah for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, is beyond any doubt, one of the strongest evidences in Scripture, for the absolute Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ! Only those who doubt the Word of God, will doubt this about Jesus Christ.

I didn't see it in your post but John 8:58 sums it up pretty well, I think. "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

 

[tigger 2]

Here is John 1:1 as found in the Emphatic Diaglott New Testament, published by the Watchtower.

View attachment 14337 View attachment 14338 View attachment 14339

Here is the New World Translation reading for Isaiah 9:6, which is a Prophecy for the Birth of Jesus Christ

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The Diaglott "Defense"

18 Trinitarian apologist Bowser (What Every Jehovah's Witness Should Know) concludes his misinterpretation of Colwell's Rule with this further misinformation:

"Incidentally, the LITERAL translation that accompanies the Greek text [of John 1:1c] in the Emphatic Diaglott also bears witness to the fact that `the Logos (Word) was God.'" - pp. 57-58.

This is completely dishonest and Bowser must know that. He also knows that an uninformed person glancing at John 1:1 in the Diaglott would probably agree with his dishonest statement.

As you may know (and Bowser certainly knows), The Emphatic Diaglott is an interlinear translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures. It has the literal, word-for-word translation along with the Greek text on the left-hand page and there it has "and a god was the Word" at John 1:1c. On the right-hand page it has an emphatic translation which is "based upon that in the left-hand column."

"In this [right-hand] column the EMPHATIC SIGNS are introduced, by which the Greek words of Emphasis are designated ....
".... [This peculiar system of emphasis] of the Greek language cannot be properly expressed in English except by the use of typographical signs, such as, Initial Capital Letters, italics, SMALL CAPITALS, and CAPITALS." - p. 8, Diaglott introduction.


19 So, you see, the literal left-hand column for John 1:1 in the Diaglott uses capitalization according to standard English usage: "In a beginning...the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word."

But, in the right-hand column the translator uses capitalization to show what degree of emphasis was being put upon the various words in the original NT Greek!

Therefore, in the right-hand column it reads: "In the Beginning...the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God."

Notice that "LOGOS" is all capitals and the first "GOD" is also all capitals. This merely shows a certain degree of emphasis found in the original Greek! Now notice the second "God" has only an initial capital letter. This, too, merely denotes another type of emphasis found in the original NT Greek!

Also, Bowser has dishonestly "quoted" the Diaglott: "the Logos (Word) was God." He didn't capitalize "LOGOS" as it actually was in the Diaglott (all capitals) but did capitalize "God" as it appeared—the second time (with an initial capital letter)...the first usage which actually denoted the only true God was in all capitals: "GOD."

To show that "God" in the right-hand column does not have to mean "the only true God," let's look at Acts 28:6 in the Diaglott. The literal left-hand column says: "they said, A god him to be." But the emphatic right-hand column says: "they said, `He is a God.'" I don't think you will find many (if any) Bible translators who have decided that these pagans were calling Paul "the only true God." It is clear (as shown in the left-hand column) that the Diaglott intends "he is a god," but, because of the method used to show Greek emphasis, "god" is written with an initial capital letter in the emphatic right-hand column!

 

[Cooper]

so when Jesus prayed, He did so to Himself? When He said that He would send Another (one other than Himself, as the Greek has it), Who comes from BESIDES The Father, this means nothing?

When Jesus taught us to pray to, "Our Father" guess who we are praying to. We are praying to the I AM, the WORD, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

There is only ONE God and His NAME on earth is JESUS.
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[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I didn't see it in your post but John 8:58 sums it up pretty well, I think. "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

thanks, you are right. I did this in another thread, Jesus Christ The Great I AM, God bless