Jesus isn't Catholic

[BreadOfLife]

I was referring to this:

3Jo 1:9, I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jo 1:10, Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
3Jo 1:11, Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

It has to do with the unjust excommunications that the Catholic Church has performed throughout the centuries.

WRONG.

Excommunication is a BIBLICAL remedy that is geared toward returning a person back to the fold:
Matt. 18:17-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

1 Cor. 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Nothing "unjust" about that . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.

Excommunication is a BIBLICAL remedy that is geared toward returning a person back to the fold:
Matt. 18:17-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

1 Cor. 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Nothing "unjust" about that . . .

I wasn't saying that excommunication as a practice was unbiblical...

I was saying that it has been abused by the Catholic Church throughout church history, such as during the times of the inquisitions.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I attend the church that I attend; and we partake of communion as a symbolic action.

And I don't think that I am going to hell because of this.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Funny - I can't fin ONE VERSE that says the Eucharist is a mere "symbolic" gesture.
Perhaps YOU can show me the verse. . . .

John 6:53-56
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is tRUE FOOD, and my blood is TRUE DRINK. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Matt. 26:26-28
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; THIS IS MY BODY.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for THIS IS MY BLOOD of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

NO mention of "symbols" here . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I wasn't saying that excommunication as a practice was unbiblical...

I was saying that it has been abused by the Catholic Church throughout church history, such as during the times of the inquisitions.

Produce a case that YOU find was "unjust".
Otherwise, your accusations ore nonsense.

 

[justbyfaith]

Funny - I can't fin ONE VERSE that says the Eucharist is a mere "symbolic" gesture.
Perhaps YOU can show me the verse. . . .

John 6:53-56
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is tRUE FOOD, and my blood is TRUE DRINK. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Matt. 26:26-28
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; THIS IS MY BODY.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for THIS IS MY BLOOD of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

NO mention of "symbols" here . . .

So, Romans 10:13, "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord may or may not be saved"?

 

[justbyfaith]

Produce a case that YOU find was "unjust".
Otherwise, your accusations ore nonsense.

The whole of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, Romans 10:13, "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord may or may not be saved"?

You just don't get it - DO you?

Rom. 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This MUST be read in CONTEXT with verses like the following:

Matt. 7:21
NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that NOT "whosoever" calls on Him gets saved??
WHY?? Because salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation like I've been telling you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The whole of the Spanish Inquisition.

That kind of generalization wouldn't hold up in ANY court.
Those kinds of ignorant generalizations are why there was a Holocaust.

Unless you can show me an "unjust" case of excommunication- your argument circles the drain . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

You just don't get it - DO you?

Rom. 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This MUST be read in CONTEXT with verses like the following:

Matt. 7:21
NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that NOT "whosoever" calls on Him gets saved??
WHY?? Because salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation like I've been telling you.

Saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, and, calling on His name, are two different things.

Matthew 7:21 is not saying that a man shall not be saved if he calls on the name of the Lord but is disobedient. That is inconsistent with the teaching of holy scripture.

The one who calls on the name of the Lord will be obedient; he has been made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

That kind of generalization wouldn't hold up in ANY court.
Those kinds of ignorant generalizations are why there was a Holocaust.

Unless you can show me an "unjust" case of excommunication- your argument circles the drain . . .

It will hold up in the court of heaven.

Pro 11:21, Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

The fact that the cases were too numerous to count does not make the people who brought about the Spanish Inquisition any less guilty.

 

[justbyfaith]

What's'matta'?

Cat got your tongue?

You've been responding to me all day. I find it hard to believe that you left your computer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, and, calling on His name, are two different things.
Matthew 7:21 is not saying that a man shall not be saved if he calls on the name of the Lord but is disobedient. That is inconsistent with the teaching of holy scripture.
The one who calls on the name of the Lord will be obedient; he has been made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

WRONG.

That's precisely what Matt. 7:21 is saying - and it's NOT inconsistent with Scripture.
It's ONLY inconsistent with YOUR cherry-picking of Scripture.

It will hold up in the court of heaven.
Pro 11:21, Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

The fact that the cases were too numerous to count does not make the people who brought about the Spanish Inquisition any less guilty.

WRONG again.

God only deals in truth - and if you don't have any actual facts - then your entire case collapses like a house of cards.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What's'matta'?

Cat got your tongue?

You've been responding to me all day. I find it hard to believe that you left your computer.

What's wrong with you?

I have a life outside this forum - a family and a home and a job. I don't sit in front of the computer all day holding my breath for YOU to post.
I have other responsibilities.

I just got back from confession if you must know.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.

That's precisely what Matt. 7:21 is saying - and it's NOT inconsistent with Scripture.
It's ONLY inconsistent with YOUR cherry-picking of Scripture.

Actually, my statements were a reconciliation of the verse that you gave me to the verse that I gave you.

WRONG again.

God only deals in truth - and if you don't have any actual facts - then your entire case collapses like a house of cards.

You think that the Spanish Inquisition is not a fact in history?

What's wrong with you?

I have a life outside this forum - a family and a home and a job. I don't sit in front of the computer all day holding my breath for YOU to post.
I have other responsibilities.

I just got back from confession if you must know.

You know...you could have a great burden lifted off of you if you would realize that 1 John 1:9 does not specify Catholic priests but that you can go to Jesus as the one mediator between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually, my statements were a reconciliation of the verse that you gave me to the verse that I gave you.

WRONG.
I'll explain again . . .

Rom. 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This MUST be read in CONTEXT with verses like the following:

Matt. 7:21
NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that NOT "whosoever" calls on Him gets saved??
WHY?? Because salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation like I've been telling you.

You think that the Spanish Inquisition is not a fact in history?

Sure, it was - but that's NOT the point.

YOU stated that there were "unjust" excommunications. I asked you to give me ONE example oif an "unjust" excommunication - and YOU said: "The Spanish Inquisitions."

That is NOT an example of an "unjust" excommunication.
That's like YOU asking ME for an example of treason - with ME replying, "World War II".

You know...you could have a great burden lifted off of you if you would realize that 1 John 1:9 does not specify Catholic priests but that you can go to Jesus as the one mediator between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5).

And that's why cherry-picking Scripture ALWAYS gets you into trouble.

For priestly confession - I reference John 20:21-23.
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgeven them and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

I ALSO reference, Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18 and John 16:12-15.

CONTEXT - when are you going to learn about CONTEXT??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I wasn't saying that excommunication as a practice was unbiblical...

I was saying that it has been abused by the Catholic Church throughout church history, such as during the times of the inquisitions.

Then give me a SINGE INSTANCE of an "unjust" excommunication during the Inquisitions.

If you can't - you've LOST the argument because YOU brought up the Inquisitions in the first place.

 

[justbyfaith]

You just don't get it - DO you?

Rom. 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This MUST be read in CONTEXT with verses like the following:

Matt. 7:21
NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that NOT "whosoever" calls on Him gets saved??
WHY?? Because salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation like I've been telling you.

What you did there was to take Matthew 7:21 and to make it deny Romans 10:13.

Instead of doing that, you should have been attempting to reconcile those scriptures to each other (like I did) so that there is no contradiction between them; so that both scriptures stand to be true.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What you did there was to take Matthew 7:21 and to make it deny Romans 10:13.

Instead of doing that, you should have been attempting to reconcile those scriptures to each other (like I did) so that there is no contradiction between them; so that both scriptures stand to be true.

WRONG.

It doesn't "deny" anything.
It give the CONDITIONS for Rom. 10:13.

NO contradiction - just perfect harmony . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

And that's why cherry-picking Scripture ALWAYS gets you into trouble.

For priestly confession - I reference John 20:21-23.
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgeven them and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

I ALSO reference, Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18 and John 16:12-15.

CONTEXT - when are you going to learn about CONTEXT??

Your loss...

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.

It doesn't "deny" anything.
It give the CONDITIONS for Rom. 10:13.

NO contradiction - just perfect harmony . . .

There is not perfect harmony in what you said.

For you are teaching that Romans 10:13 does not say that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved...when it clearly does.

In this, you are favouring your scripture above the one that I have given you; and have denied the truth of it.

Now look again at what I wrote about how these scriptures reconcile:

Saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, and, calling on His name, are two different things.

Matthew 7:21 is not saying that a man shall not be saved if he calls on the name of the Lord but is disobedient. That is inconsistent with the teaching of holy scripture.

The one who calls on the name of the Lord will be obedient; he has been made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

There is perfect harmony.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then give me a SINGE INSTANCE of an "unjust" excommunication during the Inquisitions.

If you can't - you've LOST the argument because YOU brought up the Inquisitions in the first place.

I haven't lost the argument.

The fact that I don't have any information on the specifics doesn't mean that the Inquisitions weren't an atrocity. People were tortured to death by the Catholic Church. That is a fact of history.