JESUS, the Holy Spirit, the Only True God.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
hi Picjag,

I don't think you've actually said that. No. For some reason you seem allerigic to committing yourself to a position on this simple question.

So we are agreed, then, the voice that spoke from heaven spoke the truth, correct?

Much love!
mark
error, I said that the voice spoke truth, just as the voice in Genesis 22:15 & 16 spoke TRUTH."And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son"

now, was that not the TRUTH? yes, but was it God Speaking? NO, but the voice came from Heaven.

so we're asking give scripture that shows the voice that came from heaven at our Lord's baptism is God voice?

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just to get past this little roadblock . . .

If these words are true, "My beloved son", who is speaking them?

Trick question . . . if the words are true, then it must be a parent. Who could that be?

If the Jews were so quick to understand that the Son of God is equal to God, then way are we so slow to understand that the Father must be at least as the Son?

Much love!
mark
no trick question. angels speak on God behalf. it is in the bible. this is what we been saying, don't assume nothing, nor take the scripture for granted, nor inject any private interpretation, see 2 peter 1:20.

until the voice here say it's God's don't assume nothing. at the transfiguration the voice was confirmed. but not here at the baptism. so don't add or take away from the word of God.

PICJAG
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
no trick question. angels speak on God behalf. it is in the bible. this is what we been saying, don't assume nothing, nor take the scripture for granted, nor inject any private interpretation, see 2 peter 1:20.

until the voice here say it's God's don't assume nothing. at the transfiguration the voice was confirmed. but not here at the baptism. so don't add or take away from the word of God.

PICJAG

If this was an angel speaking during Jesus' baptism, and it spoke truth, then is it that you think of Jesus as the Son of an angel?
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@marks, or Mjh29.

if either of you can reconcile the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question, looking to hear from either of you,

be blessed.

PICJAG.

OK. To your question, what needs to be reconciled? I don't see a conflict. Jesus and YHWH are One and the Same. Can you be more specific about what conflict you see?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
while the reconciling of John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 is on going, we would like to present to you another problem. if Jesus is the YHWH, and the bible describe the "LORD" as the almighty. then we have a problem at John 1:1
Who is Jesus' Father?
the Lord Jesus don't have a biological, nor a Spiritual father. this is what we being saying all alone, "Father" is a title, not a person. and the Lord Jesus is the EQUAL "share" of that Spirit (without flesh).

so the title "Father" and "Son" are only titles of the same one "Diversified" Spirit with flesh & Blood (Son). without Flesh and blood, (Father).

this is why we asked the OQ in the first place to show it's the same PERSON.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OK. To your question, what needs to be reconciled? I don't see a conflict. Jesus and YHWH are One and the Same. Can you be more specific about what conflict you see?
yes, the trinity doctrine states the Father (the LORD all caps) and the Son (Lord) are separate and distinct person, but the scriptures states different.

now are you saying that the Lord Jesus is the "LORD" one in the same? yes or no.

PICJAG
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@marks, or Mjh29.

if either of you can reconcile the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question, looking to hear from either of you,

be blessed.

PICJAG.

Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to David's Lord.... Hmmm... how could this be...unless God is schizo, I believe that they are distinct persons, and yet the same God.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to David's Lord.... Hmmm... how could this be...unless God is schizo, I believe that they are distinct persons, and yet the same God.
that's your problem, the "LORD", all caps in Isaiah said he is alone. so are you saying that Jesus is the "LORD" yes or No.

looking for your answer.

PICJAG
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ok, if they are not the same PERSON, the one in John 1:3 said to "MAKE" all things. and he is identified as the Word, (Jesus the Son). but the person in Isaiah 44:24 who said he "MADE" all things by himself, and he said that he was alone when he made all things. this person holds the title "LORD", and the Person in John 1:3 holds the title "Lord". so are you saying that the "PERSON" in John 1:3 is not the Person in Isaiah 44:24?

PICJAG.

They are the same God, Different persons. They share the same substance of Godhood, and yet are completely distinct persons

1 Corinthians 8:6

this deals directly with the supposed contradiction. Sorry for the wait, but I'm a firm believer in quality over quantity.
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
that's your problem, the "LORD", all caps in Isaiah said he is alone. so are you saying that Jesus is the "LORD" yes or No.

looking for your answer.

PICJAG

Yes and no. He is God, but he is not the Father, just as the Father is God but is not the Son
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are the same God, Different persons. They share the same substance of Godhood, and yet are completely distinct persons

1 Corinthians 8:6

this deals directly with the supposed contradiction. Sorry for the wait, but I'm a firm believer in quality over quantity.
so you're saying that JESUS is the "LORD" all caps ... right?

PICJAG.
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so you're saying that JESUS is the "LORD" all caps ... right?

PICJAG.
They are the same God, different persons. Not the same persons, but the same God
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes and no. He is God, but he is not the Father, just as the Father is God but is not the Son
did you not say the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24. either he is or not.

your anser Please.
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
did you not say the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24. either he is or not.

your anser Please.

Same God, different persons
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are the same God, Different persons. They share the same substance of Godhood, and yet are completely distinct persons

1 Corinthians 8:6

this deals directly with the supposed contradiction. Sorry for the wait, but I'm a firm believer in quality over quantity.
if they are the same God and you said "YHWH" is Jesus, then you have another problem. For the LORD is almighty God, Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect".

now the person in Isaiah 44:24 is the "LORD" all caps. and you said the person in John 1:3 is the same person now you have a really BIG problem now. for the LORD all cap is the almighty God whom you calls "the Father" and if you say the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24 then the "LORD" who is YHWH, you say is JESUS.

see your problem now?.

PICJAG.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
yes, the trinity doctrine states the Father (the LORD all caps) and the Son (Lord) are separate and distinct person, but the scriptures states different.

now are you saying that the Lord Jesus is the "LORD" one in the same? yes or no.

PICJAG

Yes, Jesus and YHWH are the Same.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, Jesus and YHWH are the Same.
well the LORD is "YHWH" who you say is JESUS, and the BIBLE say the "LORD" is the Father, listen again, Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

now unless you have a God MIGHTIER than the all mighty, please post the scripture to that effect.

PICJAG.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
while the reconciling of John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 is on going, we would like to present to you another problem. if Jesus is the YHWH, and the bible describe the "LORD" as the almighty. then we have a problem at John 1:1

the Lord Jesus don't have a biological, nor a Spiritual father. this is what we being saying all alone, "Father" is a title, not a person. and the Lord Jesus is the EQUAL "share" of that Spirit (without flesh).

so the title "Father" and "Son" are only titles of the same one "Diversified" Spirit with flesh & Blood (Son). without Flesh and blood, (Father).

this is why we asked the OQ in the first place to show it's the same PERSON.

PICJAG.

There you have it.

So the voice did not tell the truth, it was not the speaker's son.

That's your answer? The speaker said "son", but didn't mean it.

Hmmm.
 
Last edited:

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well the LORD is "YHWH" who you say is JESUS, and the BIBLE say the "LORD" is the Father, listen again, Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

now unless you have a God MIGHTIER than the all mighty, please post the scripture to that effect.

PICJAG.

Isaiah 9:6 ESV
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.