John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Titus]

On this we agree.

This is false. It is NOT based on nothing that they do. Why do you keep saying that when you know it is not true? It is based on their sin.

That has nothing to do with Calvinism. And he is right, there IS NOTHING any of us can DO to be saved. God does the saving.

Again, you fall of the rails when you say God's wrath is based on nothing that they have done. Completely false.

You misunderstood what point I am making about nothing we do.
I'm not saying our sins are not the reason for why we deserve hell.
We do deserve hell based on what we do.

I'm saying calvinism says there is nothing we do to be saved!
Big difference.

You taught truth here,

That has nothing to do with Calvinism. And he is right, there IS NOTHING any of us can DO to be saved. God does the saving

Exactly! Calvinism teaches man can do absolutely nothing about his salvation or damnation.
Only God chooses who will be in heaven and hell.
WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!
Please tell Pinseeker this!
He needs to learn his doctrine more accurately.

Now what are the implications of this false teaching?

If I can do nothing at all to have God coose to save me then:
Man is not at fault for where he spends eternity.
If in hell, its Gods fault, not mans.
If heaven , its Gods choice, not mans.

Since i have no say in this matter of my salvation.
Therefore wherever I end up is Gods fault.
Therefore according to calvinism man is not at fault for going to hell.
It is Gods fault for we have no choice in the matter.

The true Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ has man to choose God or self.

Acts 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Man must do something to be saved!

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in the heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Did Peter preach calvinism and say, No, No, brethren there is nothing you can do!
Nope!

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is something men can do to be saved in Jesus' gospel,

Acts 2:40
And with many words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[theefaith]

As a Calvinist do you believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary?

 

[Titus]

As a Calvinist do you believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary?

Hi,
theefaith

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You misunderstood what point I am making about nothing we do.
I'm not saying our sins are not the reason for why we deserve hell.
We do deserve hell based on what we do.

I'm saying calvinism says there is nothing we do to be saved!
Big difference.

You taught truth here,


Exactly! Calvinism teaches man can do absolutely nothing about his salvation or damnation.
Only God chooses who will be in heaven and hell.
WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!
Please tell Pinseeker this!
He needs to learn his doctrine more accurately.

Now what are the implications of this false teaching?

If I can do nothing at all to have God coose to save me then:
Man is not at fault for where he spends eternity.
If in hell, its Gods fault, not mans.
If heaven , its Gods choice, not mans.

Since i have no say in this matter of my salvation.
Therefore wherever I end up is Gods fault.
Therefore according to calvinism man is not at fault for going to hell.
It is Gods fault for we have no choice in the matter.

The true Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ has man to choose God or self.

Acts 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Man must do something to be saved!

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in the heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Did Peter preach calvinism and say, No, No, brethren there is nothing you can do!
Nope!

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is something men can do to be saved in Jesus' gospel,

Acts 2:40
And with many words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

hello titus. You’re so close to understanding calvinism. But i think i understand where your confusion comes in. Regeneration comes before faith and repentance. If a person can repent or have faith, that is a gift from God.

 

[Titus]

hello titus. You’re so close to understanding calvinism. But i think i understand where your confusion comes in. Regeneration comes before faith and repentance. If a person can repent or have faith, that is a gift from God.

Yes friend, it is a gift from God that God has given to everyone.
Everyone has the ability to believe by their own free moral agency.

The word of God demands that we understand what the will of the Lord is,
Ephesians 3:4

The ability to believe is not gifted to only a select few miraculously.

All can become believers if they choose.

God would not give us an instruction manual ie The Holy Bible and command us to read it, 2Timothy 2:15,
And to understand it. Yet make it impossible for some to believe it.

The Bible is written that we might believe, Ephesians 3:4.

King Agrippa believed yet chose not to obey the gospel,
Acts 26:27-28
King Agrippa do you believe the prophets? I know that you do believe.
Then Agrippa said to Paul, You almost persuade me to become a christian.

Agrippa had faith in Jesus. Paul's gospel preaching convinced king Agrippa.
Yet, Aggripa chose not to become a Christian.

You see in calvinism this belief or faith is done on select individuals directly by the Holy Spirit miraculously.
In calvinism this faith that God gives through His Spirit cannot be resisted.
Yet, look at king Agrippa. He resisted God after Paul's teaching convinced him that Jesus was the Messiah!

Faith is not given miraculously to select individuals as calvinism teaches.
This false doctrine of I Irrestable Grace in calvinism is unbiblical.

Agrippa resisted.
Many Jews resisted Gods calling,
Acts 7:51
You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears!
You always resist the Holy Spirit, as your fathers did, so do you.

So this idea that once God gifts you with faith, you cannot resist His grace is false doctrine.

Lifelong sinner, you have heard me teach already,
That if God regenerates you first, ie born again.
Then we have faith and believe the gospel.
WE WERE SAVED BEFORE WE HAD FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!
WE WERE BORN AGAIN BEFORE WE BELIEVED THE GOSPEL!

That is not the order of salvation that is found in the new testament.

No one got born again then believed and repented!

Calvinism teaches we are born again before faith in Jesus Christ!
Obviously this is a heresy.
John Calvin taught regeneration before belief in the gospel.

The Bible teaches it is the gospel itself that makes one a believer and is how we are saved.
Romans 1:16,
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the jew first and also for the greek.

God does not reveal Himself to us before we hear the gospel.
God reveals Himself to us through His gospel,
Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith: as it is written. The just shall live by faith.

 

[Grailhunter]

hello titus. You’re so close to understanding calvinism. But i think i understand where your confusion comes in. Regeneration comes before faith and repentance. If a person can repent or have faith, that is a gift from God.

I think you forgot. Everything to do about salvation is a matter of free-will and choice. That Christ died for all those that would choose to believe in Him. It is all pretty simple.

Now for a bit of humor I knew a Calvinist that was rather unscrupulous. (Not like most Calvinists) And he thought being good was considered works. So since works don't save you, he figured he could sin all he wanted and get to heaven.
And I told him that I knew a lot of good Calvinists, and they didn't believe that......right?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You right which is why I am not guilty of the sin of presumption. You on teh other hand write as if you have a printout of my brain in front of you and know me intimately on the basis of these few paragraphs. That is the height of hubris and arrogance.

Like a good sincere Calvinist, you didn't deal with what I said. You claim Calvinism. That speaks for itself. Your brain is another person's brain. When know those people because they always like to share the intimate details of their thoughts of how God hates the vast majority of humanity.

2.and yet God still knows all those who are HIs! as it is written in Timothy! Though of course you may think it is probably church incorporated!

There you go ADDING to the Scriptures. It does not say ALL anywhere in that verse. You're making it up.

It always love it when a Calvinist tries to make a "ALL" argument. I get to give back to them what they shovel to others.

Time did not come into existence until the first day of Creation You cannot have psace/matter without time and you cannot have time without space/matter.

So matter didn't exist anywhere before the first day of Creation on this earth? That is rather silly thing to say. I imagine God is only a few thousand years old then?

Silly men like yourself love to bring God down to their level.

God is Eternal and Time is Eternal. Endless. Never ending... Time. The Great "I AM".

1. God has no sin!
2. God knows those who are HIs!

Agreed.

He knows the ned from the beginning!

Sure. End is not beginning.

He knew Satan would fall which is why Jesus is the lamb slain fromn teh creation of the World- which was before Satan, Adam and Eve fell.

You can't possibly prove that. That is just an imagination you have. Satan sinned long before this world was ever created. He "brought" sin into this world

3. That God doesn't know the thoughts of people is contradicted by Jesus Himself. YOur belief is unbiblical!

I didn't say that. That is your lie. Ask me next time.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Calvinist's never give a yes or no answer.

The answer is a BIG No

You got to "love" the ole.... "No one deserves to go to heaven. Including me......" ruse from Calvinists.

In the same breath they will claim God hates Esau and loves them.....

 

[Taken]

Exactly! Calvinism teaches man can do absolutely nothing about his salvation or damnation.
Only God chooses who will be in heaven and hell.

I haven’t studied Calvin’s works, but for sake of curiosity,
I see “that a man can do nothing about his salvation or damnation”, to be moreso as fact, regarding the mans choice or lack thereof.

From my perspective: all men have Freewill, to believe whatever THEY choose.
* Choose to Believe to the day of physical death...You WILL become Saved on the day of your physical death...nothing ANYONE can do about it.
* Choose to Become converted while alive in your flesh...You ARE Saved on that day...nothing ANYONE can do about it.
* Choose to Not Believe to the day of physical death..You WILL NOT become Saved on the day of your physical death...nothing ANYONE can do about it.
* Choose to Not Believe AND make your allegiance of Belief TO Satan...You WILL NOT become Saved.
* Choose to Not Believe AND Advocated AGAINST believers...You WILL NOT become Saved on the day of your physical death...AND suffer Gods Vengeance.

God does NOT MAKE a mans Choices, FOR the man.
God All-knowing, KNOWS your CHOICES, before you DO.
From BEFORE you were naturally born, God has ALREADY prepared a PLACE for YOU...according to WHAT you WILL Choose.

Sort of similar to what Human Parents do.
A babe does not decide or choose to BE BORN.
The Parents decide...they Prepare a Place...make up a room, purchase needs,
Know the babe, long before the babe KNOWS the Parents.
The babe will grow, (without his own choice to do so), The babe will become wise, (IF he chooses to do so). The Parents, will teach the babe/child. The Parents will Observe the child, and KNOW, freewill choices the child will MAKE, before he makes his choices, AND reward or punish the child accordingly.
Does that mean the child HAD NO Choice?
No, it means the Child chose, and the Parents Reaction to reward or punish, was already established.

God has upfront established His Rewards/Blessings/Gifts AND His punishment.
*Accept His Gift of Salvation...(according to His Order and Way)...AND absolutely, it’s a DONE DEAL, and nothing one can do about it.
*Reject His Gift of Salvation...AND absolutely, it’s a DONE DEAL, and nothing one can do about it.

WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!

To be more specific...You have NO Choice in the matter TO CHANGE the CONSEQUENCES of your CHOICE...to become Converted...or become Separated from God.

And to NOTE; The caveat...”IF”
“IF” you MAKE NO CHOICE....specific, to BECOME SAVED....
(As some people, for example, may have total disinterest in godly consideration, eh, being neither FOR or AGAINST God, perhaps simply, strolling through life focused on human relationships, tries to be nice to everyone, and content they are a good person)...
THAT PERSON ^, is accounted AGAINST GOD.
Not a secret. (Matt 12:30)
AND the consequence is, God shall NOT be with that person.

Clearly, Scripture teaches, God IS all knowing, even BEFORE a babe, becomes aware of his own existence. Before a babe hears, learns, freely chooses his own belief, and freely chooses to ACT on his own choices of belief.

God chooses ALL men. Men have to MAKE their own choices to CHOOSE God...or NOT.
God simply knows what every man WILL Choose, and has already MADE Preparations FOR every mans Choice.
* AND TRUE...men have NO SAYSO, in the CONSEQUENCES FOR their own choices.
* THE CONSEQUENCES FOR every man Choice, is clearly revealed in Scripture.

* Scripture clearly teaches about MENS “choices”...and clearly OF WHAT.
Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

You have confused CHOOSING, with the CONSEQUENCES OF one’s CHOICE.
Every individual has FREEWILL to CHOOSE.
No individual has the FREEWILL to Decide Gods Consequences of their Choice.

Perhaps a notion to ponder?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

If I can do nothing at all to have God coose to save me then:
Man is not at fault for where he spends eternity.

Again, you can't hold that we are there because of our sin, then say if God passes over us our eternity is his fault. No, it is still the fault of the sinner.

If in hell, its Gods fault, not mans.

No, people are in hell because of their sin. That is justice.

If heaven , its Gods choice, not mans.

Yes, 100%.

 

[theefaith]

Hi,
theefaith

hi

is that a yes?

 

[theefaith]

Jn 15:1 abide in me!

don’t you have to choose to do so?

Jn 3:16 whosoever believes.

must choose (volition) to believe and believe unto the end

Matt 24:13

 

[reformed1689]

As a Calvinist do you believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary?

No rational person believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Even the early church did not believe that.

 

[theefaith]

No rational person believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Even the early church did not believe that.

The church has always believed and taught the truth!

Fundamentalism ain’t biblical

only heretics deny it!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[reformed1689]

The church has always believed and taught the truth!

Fundamentalism ain’t biblical

only heretics deny it!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

Dude get over it, the Bible says she had other kids. She wasn't a perpetual virgin. Move on.

 

[theefaith]

Dude get over it, the Bible says she had other kids. She wasn't a perpetual virgin. Move on.

never!
Brothers automatically means mother?

why do the 12 sons of Jacob all brothers have 4 different mothers?

 

[Pierac]

wow! You need more research. Calvin didnt burn anyone. The church/state was responsible for burning servetus, not calvin. The church had excommunicated calvin, they didnt like him either. Matter of fact, calvin warned servetus to avoid geneva.
You calvin haters are something else.

Calvin Said That the Apostle’s Question in Acts 1:6 Was Foolish. Was it?

As part of Calvin’s commentary on this verse he writes:
He showeth that the apostles were gathered together when as this question was moved, that we may know that it came not of the foolishness of one or two that it was moved, but it was moved by the common consent of them all; but marvelous is their rudeness, that when as they had been diligently instructed by the space of three whole years, they betray no less ignorance than if they had heard never a word. There are as many errors in this question as words.

It's you whom do not know who they follow.... Your Calvin... having the nerve to call the very ones whom lived with Jesus ignorant of his teachings!
Really, I can't make this $ht up.... Calvin was the A hole of his time.... and Servetus was a victim of this man!!! If Calvin calls the Apostles idiots... what do you think he would have done to a man whom wrote against his teaching/beliefs.

Liberal murderer, much like today!!! Calvin hater...please! Calvin was the Church LGBT of his day...
Paul

 

[PinSeeker]

Brothers automatically means mother?

Jesus's brothers were all of Joseph and born of Mary.

why do the 12 sons of Jacob all brothers have 4 different mothers?

Jacob had four wives, not twelve. None of them were virgins. Jacob was quite busy. And so was Joseph, after Jesus was born...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[JesusFan1]

Allow God to save you? Do you not see what is wrong with that statement? Are you more powerful than God?

He is though giving to us the logical extreme of the "free will" gospel!

 

[JesusFan1]

Let's pretend you are correct,
Jesus did not love everyone.
Therefore He only sacrificed Himself to save a few.

Is that a loving God?
Since every man will eventually sin against God.
That makes us all just as guilty.
Explain to me, why it is loving to send some to hell based on nothing they choose.
And send others to heaven, based on nothing they have done or choose?

If that is the true living God.
Then God is a sadistic god.

Thanks be to God, GOD IS LOVE!!!! Amen

God most of all HOLY,and all of His attributes are based upon being faithful to His holiness!