Keeping Jesus' commanads is requirement for salvation

[mjrhealth]

Grace - all about Jesus Law - all about man
Grace - Glorifies Jesus Law - glorifies man
Grace - all about teh works of Christ Law - all about the works of man
Grace - Eternal life Law - eternal Death
Grace - Love Law - Condemnation
Grace - For the imperfect man Law - for the perfect man - Christ Jesus
Grace - A free gift Law - pay for with your life
Grace - Given to Genilte and Jew Law - given to teh Israelites by God through Moses

Choose whom you will serve, but it may be too late.

In all His Love

 

[Josho]

More like,

priests who rape little boys and girls, nuns that force abortion on women, Prophets that run around declaring false prophecies for money and please teh people, pastors that fleece there congragation, christians tha tworship idols and say it is a good thing, teh self righteous who as Jesus said, clean the outside of teh cup but on the inside,...., the law keepers who continually tread the grace of God underfoot and say it is a good thing, who declare " look at me God I am not like those other sinners", who reject the works of Christ so they can earn there way by their own works, who insist that the works that Jesus was not enough so they have to add their works to a free gift, who make a mockery of the one they say they Love who glory in their works and reject that of Jesus,

I think God would be more concerned with those who slander His name and make a laughing stock of Him and who drive way his children than a bunch of people with problems.

In all His Love

So then why you keep twisting what God's word says on homosexuality, is it any better than sins like adultery and fornication? I'm sure you have read plenty of times what it says on sexual sin.

 

[mjrhealth]

So then why you keep twisting what God's word says on homosexuality, is it any better than sins like adultery and fornication? I'm sure you have read plenty of times what it says on sexual sin.

Waht does God say about sin all of it......

 

[Josho]

Waht does God say about sin all of it......

Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and Sin No More." So there you have it, there's is Jesus's own words. Look it up for yourself in John 8:11, if you don't believe me.

Here's another one written in red.
Luke 13:3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God.

Do you believe in this? or was it a small error written in the Book of John and Luke?

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and Sin No More." So there you have it, there's is Jesus's own words. Look it up for yourself in John 8:11, if you don't believe me.

And who was chasing her,, and did he call her a sinner, and who was teh ones He rebuked, yes the pharisees.

 

[Barrd]

Waht does God say about sin all of it......

What does God have to say about sin? Let's see....

Psa 69:5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Josho]

And who was chasing her,, and did he call her a sinner, and who was teh ones He rebuked, yes the pharisees.

And what about the other verse?

Luke 13:3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

All disobeying God is sin and it bring death.

Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Transforming start when you are born again until you be an overcomer.
We must obey not disobey God.
That how it all got started in the Garden.
Penalty is still the same all the way through until now.

According to Revelation we must be an overcomer to make it in the new world.

Overcome what ?
yourself - deny yourself = start obeying
The Devil - 1john 2:13-14,
The World - lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life = 1john 2:16-17

disobeying is in the heart of the inner man not the flesh. I say this because I don't think we are born with a sin nature.
We create our own sin nature and must be destroyed in our heart, so we can obey God.

Jesus says sin no more. Be an overcomer.

 

[GodcallsmeOlivia]

There is one here who is a homosexual, who doesn't think he needs to repent and turn from that sin. I will not name names, you know who you are.
What ATP is preaching here is not the truth. Unless you repent and turn from your sin, you will not see Heaven.
Now, no one is saying that it will be easy. Far from it. It isn't easy for any of us. There are some who have chosen celibacy rather than sin against God. There are others who have managed to learn to live in a heterosexual relationship and be happy.
Perhaps you didn't know this, but there are heterosexuals who find it difficult to control their sexual urges, as well. Some of them have also chosen celibacy. Others have confined themselves to one partner in marriage. It isn't easy for them, either.

The thing is, we are all "born with" sin. For some reason, sex seems to be a major stumbling block for many...but there are other sins as well, that people seem to be "born with"...sins such as stealing, for instance. Shoplifting is probably more prevalent among "Christians" than divorce or adultery...just not as exciting to talk about. And it is true that there have been serial killers who, from childhood, liked to torture and kill small animals. We've all heard the phrase "born killer"...there is some truth in it.

I would not have you be one of those who finds, too late, that your sin has separated you from God.
I guess I take after my Father...
I am not willing that any should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

As He has said....He stands at the door and knocks. Won't you please let Him in?

I am going to start here and then I will read through the rest. I don't know that I would ever get through the Sabbath book which appears to be works versus faith as well.

There is no need to split up the bible as if it is saying two different things

First, "everything that does not come from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23).

All worry, lack of love, lack of contentment, and every seemingly little sin is sin and as James says in the exact same chapter as the faith without works statement and says before the "faith without works is dead" statement:

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it, (James 2:10).

It only took one sin by Eve to be out of the perfection of God and in sin and it only takes one sin for an individual, Adam's sin passed down, for all to be sinner's.

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.…" (Ro 5:12-13).

Only one sin is utter devastation and separation from God. Only one. So first, let none of us try and judge our righteousness by what we do.

So does anyone here say they have perfect faith and love 24 hours a day everyday never sinning?

Now before I go on to show that there is no contradiction between what seems like the work verses versus the faith verses I just wanted to say that I stopped at this entry by Baard because even though it seems very clear that God hates homosexual acts (Sodom and Gomorrah and Romans 1) I want to say that repent is what a person knows of, that is repentance is laying down self (when we become saved our selves are spiritually put to death so we can become one with the righteous one Christ). A believer is being sanctified and continually learning to not identify with their sin selves but to identify with their selves as new creations in Christ.

I say this because homosexuality, like all things that are not of the truth and love of Christ, are deceptions and I would venture to guess that some people (today probably many) who practice homosexuality think that they are not sinning (especially since many "Christian" groups say homosexuality is permissible). I believe these people can get saved and God will teach them their error and bring them to repentance in His timing. I don't think we can put an order on what sins God reveals to a person first.

As a side note, I have not read what the person you were referring to wrote but if they are deliberately sinning and not saved then yes they don't have a repentant heart turned to Christ taking over their life.

Anyway, back to the topic.

If every lack of faith, lack of love is sin, then all any of us can say about our own selves is that they are wretched. We in our own selves are all fit for the grave and dead in trespasses and sins.

Good thing for believers that our own selves are dead and buried with Christ.

A dead person cannot do works.

It is also a good thing for believers are risen in Christ as new creations.

A believer in faith does all works not from the dead sin self that is buried with Christ, but they do all works from Christ as the new creation, with Christ as the head and they part of the body. It is Christ works, not their own being done through them.

All works apart from Christ, all works apart from faith in Christ which brings one into God's Spirit and love (God is love) are dead even if a "good" work for that "good" work is sin if it is not by faith.

Sanctification isn't making the sin self better and better. Rather sanctification is abiding more and more in God's Spirit so that the works of Christ's love by real faith are done through us.

If a believer for a time does not identify with the Spirit of God, that does not make them an unbeliever. If they are a true believer however God will bring them back to identifying with God's Spirit and thus they will do works from the abiding in God. Not works from the dead self.

If someone continually denies the voice of God, they can harden and harden more, eventually falling away.

A real believer however will have some fruit (works of love from the Spirit through them) if they are a true believer not because they are getting brownie points with God, but because they love God's love and are compelled by God's love to do His works because they have faith in His love, faith in His gospel love, faith in His truth.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. (Ro 3:27-31).

So then flesh works do not save but Holy Spirit works are evidence of salvation.

 

[Barrd]

And who was chasing her,, and did he call her a sinner, and who was teh ones He rebuked, yes the pharisees.

Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

So we see that they weren't "chasing her"...she had been taken in the very act of adultery.

Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Jesus didn't contradict them. She was guilty according to the law, and the penalty was death by stoning.

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

Whoa, wait, what? What did Jesus say here?
"Yes, go ahead and throw a stone at her. You're right, she's guilty. Do your duty.
But first, check yourself. Are you, yourself, free of sin?"

Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Here we see that they were "convicted by their own conscience". That's pretty amazing! Until you realize...this was the Lord they were dealing with. You cannot lie to Him. Facing Him, their own conscience convicted them of sin...and they had to drop their rocks.
Jesus didn't rebuke them. Their own hearts did that. Think about that.

Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

You know, she could have made a run for it. But she didn't. And Jesus still didn't say that she was innocent. He asked her where her accusers were.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus was the One Man there who was without sin. Heck, He was God!
He did not say, "You have not sinned." He said "Neither do I condemn thee." She was guilty, but He was willing to forgive her. Can't you just feel the relief she must have felt!
But, it seems there was a catch: "go, and sin no more." Jesus expected her to to turn away from this sin...not to commit it any more. She must forget her lover. She must be a faithful wife.
And you know...I'll bet that's exactly what she did...

You know, if you changed the woman taken in adultery to a young man taken in the act of sodomy, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have said the same things.
Think about it....

 

[GodcallsmeOlivia]

Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

So we see that they weren't "chasing her"...she had been taken in the very act of adultery.

Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Jesus didn't contradict them. She was guilty according to the law, and the penalty was death by stoning.

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

Whoa, wait, what? Yes, go ahead and throw a stone at her. You're right, she's guilty. Do your duty.
But first, check yourself. Are you, yourself, free of sin?

Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Here we see that they were "convicted by their own conscience". That's pretty amazing! Until you realize...this was the Lord they were dealing with. You cannot lie to Him. Facing Him, their own conscience convicted them of sin...and they had to drop their rocks.
Jesus didn't rebuke them. Their own hearts did that. Think about that.

Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

You know, she could have made a run for it. But she didn't. And Jesus still didn't say that she was innocent. He asked her where her accusers were.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus was the One Man there who was without sin. Heck, He was God!
He did not say, "You have not sinned." He said "Neither do I condemn thee." She was guilty, but He was willing to forgive her. Can't you just feel the relief she must have felt!
But, it seems there was a catch: "go, and sin no more." Jesus expected her to to turn away from this sin...not to commit it any more. She must forget her lover. She must be a faithful wife.
And you know...I'll bet that's exactly what she did...

Do you ever sin?

One is only with out sin by abiding in God. In their own selves they are in sin.

 

[Barrd]

Do you ever sin?

One is only with out sin by abiding in God. In their own selves they are in sin.

Yes, Olivia. I would have had to drop my rocks, also.
Isn't that kinda the point?

The story is not about whether or not I have the right to condemn anyone.
The story is about whether or not God has that right.
And we see that He does, indeed, have that right.
We are all told the same thing..."go and sin no more."

We all...every one of us...need to repent and put our sin away from us.

 

[mjrhealth]

But you see Bard He never said she was Guilty, never once,

Please notice

Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

Condemn yes they had judged Her, now what does Jesus say,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

He had every right to call her a sinner yet He did not He alone had every right to stone her yet He did not. Who where the ones judging her and ready to stone her.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Yes that lot,

Does it not sat there is nothing new under the sun, nothing has changed.

I would still like to know what happened to teh man involved,probably got told off....


In all His Love

 

[mjrhealth]

What does God have to say about sin? Let's see....

Psa 69:5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

And you havnt yet figured out what Grace is.... By your standards we are all dead men.. For as you wrote we are all sinners,yet those who are in Christ are no longer guilty, why Because they become the righteousness of Christ, not their own. See i know of two people by your standards would not make it, yet they have both already being promised a place in heaven, no judgement, but than they believe God, seems its hard for most christians to do.

In all His Love

 

[Joyful]

WHat I am not leaving out is Christ,

Stange isnt it.

If you leave out Christ's word, you are leaving out Him.

His word is Himself.

 

[Barrd]

But you see Bard He never said she was Guilty, never once,

Please notice

Condemn yes they had judged Her, now what does Jesus say,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

He had every right to call her a sinner yet He did not He alone had every right to stone her yet He did not. Who where the ones judging her and ready to stone her.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Yes that lot,

Does it not sat there is nothing new under the sun, nothing has changed.

I would still like to know what happened to teh man involved,probably got told off....


In all His Love

I did a short story on this woman, and her lover that you might enjoy. If you're interested, I'll send it to you in a private message.

Anyway, the point is that Jesus ended by telling her to "go and sin no more."
She had sinned, of that there was no doubt. As you say, Jesus was the only One there Who had a right to judge her...and He did judge her. She was guilty. She had sinned, as we have all sinned.
She was told to "go and sin no more." No more secret meetings with her lover...she must give him up. She must repent, and change her lifestyle to no longer include the pleasures of sex outside of her marriage. That's the part you don't seem to get. Jesus told her, as He tells each and every one of us, to "go and sin no more."

Yes, I know...you want to concentrate on those wicked Pharisees...those who took her in her sin and brought her to Jesus to be judged. You want to compare them to those wicked Christians who keep telling those poor, abused homosexuals about their sin, not realizing that they have also sinned. Shame on them...why, many of them are divorced and remarried and don't they realize that this is also a sin?
Except that pointing out someone else's sin does not justify your own. Unless you repent, you are still condemned.

But back to those mean ol' Pharisees. They really didn't care so much what happened to the woman...they wanted to catch Jesus saying or doing something they could take to the Sanhedrin. They wanted Him to violate the law of Moses.

But He didn't do that. He told them to go ahead and stone her....but that the first stone was to be thrown by the one who had no sin of his own. Of course, none of them was without sin, so that sort of put an end to the party. He didn't argue that she shouldn't be stoned...she was guilty and that was the law, just as they said. His point was that, if she was guilty, so were they. And they understood Him. They dropped the rocks they were carrying and slunk away...

I always wondered what it was that He was writing in the dirt...

 

[Barrd]

And you havnt yet figured out what Grace is.... By your standards we are all dead men.. For as you wrote we are all sinners,yet those who are in Christ are no longer guilty, why Because they become the righteousness of Christ, not their own. See i know of two people by your standards would not make it, yet they have both already being promised a place in heaven, no judgement, but than they believe God, seems its hard for most christians to do.

In all His Love

The standards are not mine...they are God's.
He it is that says that the wages of sin is death.
You want to believe that, as long as you have faith, you may sin all you like, and there will be no consequences. You say that if it were up to me we'd all be dead men...but if it were up to you, we'd all be lovers of our own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof...

 

[ATP]

You want to believe that, as long as you have faith, you may sin all you like, and there will be no consequences.

Another assumption.

 

[mjrhealth]

ATP what they dont understand is Christ didnt come to set us free from sin, but from the effect of sin. Nota t least untill," in the twinkling of an eye we will all be changed".

Those He set free are free in deed. But you have to be in Christ first...
In all His LOve

 

[mjrhealth]

we'd all be lovers of our own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof...

A valid description of mankind and religion.

In all His Love