Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

[St. SteVen]

Perhaps a neighbor can help me, or my mother, or a job transportation system.

Transportation issues make it difficult. I understand.
Many churches have really good online services now. (since Covid)
You could find a church to support and attend once a month or so
and fill in with online services the rest of the month.

Just an idea.

Sure Church is fine and everything, but it is not demanded commandment upon anyone. Do you love the differences? Are you able to respect the differences?

Hope I didn't scare you away. Not my intention.

Yes, I appreciate and like (love would be a strong word) the differences.
I have many Catholic and other denomination friends with doctrines that I don't necessarily accept.
I don't shun any believers over doctrine. Doctrines are man-made. Believers are God-made. - LOL

Some have good reasons for avoiding church, when they are fully able to attend.
I know there can be issues.

I have worked through stuff that would have sent most people out the door, never to return.

 

[MatthewG]

I was surprised to learn this as part of my journey.
UR is not a new doctrine. It was prominent in the early church.
Especially in the Greek-speaking eastern church. Four out of six.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

cc: @Nancy

Steven while I respect your stance, I would consider myself a Christian Reconcilaitonist.

The difference is mainly Universalism - says all path ways lead to heaven - ending up being with God.

Christ is the way, and those who seek out God in faith, i believe will be saved to the kingdom.


Those who remain faithless will be resurrected outside of the kingdom.

Is that how you see or believe?

 

[Behold]

No one chooses Satan either.

Sure they do.

You can buy a "Satanic Bible" by Anton Le Vey.
He started the "Church of Satan" in California, many years ago.
Many of these in the USA, now.

There is a Church of Satan in a Florida City where i have a home when im not living in Israel.

Or you can visit Aleister Crowley's House, in England, who was a devout Satanist.
He has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of followers, disciples.
Led Zepplin's guitarist lives in His old House.

Most of Hitler's inner circle were Satanists, or similar.
The Nazi emblem, the Swastika, is a Twisted Cross.

The FACEBOOK emblem, is a Twisted Cross, that pretends to be the letter "F".
(See below)

Islam is Satanic, and its about 2 billion and growing.

Satan worship is everywhere, it just does not have horns and a tail and a pitchfork.

A lot of "Christian Theology", is Satanic, so, that means a lot of Christians, are the same., as is what they teach.
Christian forums are filled with people who are teaching theology that "sounds christian" and is of the devil.
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[MatthewG]

Transportation issues make it difficult. I understand.
Many churches have really good online services now. (since Covid)
You could find a church to support and attend once a month or so
and fill in with online services the rest of the month.

Thank you for the support, you can check out www.cult.love if you would like to. Its a school not really a church persay.

Just an idea.

Hope I didn't scare you away. Not my intention.

Yes, I appreciate and like (love would be a strong word) the differences.
I have many Catholic and other denomination friends with doctrines that I don't necessarily accept.
I don't shun any believers over doctrine. Doctrines are man-made. Believers are God-made. - LOL

Surely they had to make a decision to deny themselves, and look towards Jesus picking up their own cross..

Some have good reasons for avoiding church, when they are fully able to attend.
I know there can be issues.

It's kind of just whatever. Everyone and their grandma knows ya know?

I have worked through stuff that would have sent most people out the door, never to return.

Do you have any online documented videos of you teaching?

 

[MatthewG]

I too have stopped attending, but I was going more so for fellowship. After the last 3, it is over. Unless I happen to start visiting some country church's and find one that teaches sound doctrine...

I'm reading a book titled 'Will the Real Heretics Please Satan Up"...it is mostly about the 1st and 2nd century church. It was simple and all were on the same page. The "heretics" spoken about are those who organized huge expensive buildings, speak from their own opinions and leave nothing open to question, IOW-The mainline Evangelical church's of today. Back in Johns day, there was no sense of dogmatism. All were of one accord. Todays church's unless in small groups in homes, all learning and teaching from the bible only. That is what I would be very attracted to!
I can respect differences on some matters yes, but others I will never budge even though I would still love them and, let them know my own stance, kindly and gently...no one has ALL truth but The Lord, amen...

I completely understand,

my mother would probably rather just listen to me read her the bible and explain it to her, cause im someone she trust, and I also learned differently than those who may have went to some school to get a degree in theology which doesn't mean they got it all right from whoever taught them how to go about their life - witnessing to others.

Some people can be damn right condmening. The total opposite of where Christ desires for individuals to be by the spirit.



head knowledge doesn't mean anything.


Its about learning the word, and what is say, who it addresses, what is saying, what can you learn, while asking God to help you understand by the spirit.

 

[Nancy]

I completely understand,

my mother would probably rather just listen to me read her the bible and explain it to her, cause im someone she trust, and I also learned differently than those who may have went to some school to get a degree in theology which doesn't mean they got it all right from whoever taught them how to go about their life - witnessing to others.

Some people can be damn right condmening. The total opposite of where Christ desires for individuals to be by the spirit.



head knowledge doesn't mean anything.


Its about learning the word, and what is say, who it addresses, what is saying, what can you learn, while asking God to help you understand by the spirit.

Big typo from me, the title of the book is not 'Will the Real Heretics Please Satan Up" But, "Will the real heretics please STAND up" Lol. Too late to edit :/

 

[MatthewG]

Big typo from me, the title of the book is not 'Will the Real Heretics Please Satan Up" But, "Will the real heretics please STAND up" Lol. Too late to edit :/

Ill probably mever read it hun. Thank you again for sharing and talking with me.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is for each Born again Christian the "course", and you learn a lot of lessons on this course.
Paul talks about his "course"...>He said i have "finished by course".

There is also, to be taught, and you learn much that way.
That is the best EXPERIENCE, for the new believer, as that way you can learn in a few months, what it would have taken life experience to show you in maybe 40 yrs.
Also, learning by being taught through an experienced teacher, can keep you from making mistakes that can ruin your life, till you die.

No doubt. I think God put teachers in the church not because He cannot directly raise up children, mentoring them Himself, but only because he made Man to be semi-autonomous. We were not made to live independent of God, but to learn how to operate as responsible individuals. If we are irresponsible, God has allowed there to be victims of our neglect. He can recover us, but there will be suffering from our lack of knowledge.

And so, God watches us from heaven to see if we will love Him and love others. He takes pride in His children, and I think even the angels applaud when we succeed getting over some serious obstacles.

Yes, teachers can make a big difference in the lives of young believers. I went through a lot of Hell because few were there when I was a young believer, making my own way in the Spirit when my upbringing was strong on doctrine but weak in practice, not sinners but oblivious to what the Lord was really doing.

Teach, brother, because none of it is in vain. The word will accomplish what it has been sent out to do.

 

[St. SteVen]

Looking to get both sides and then compare the scripture verses for both. Give me time brother, I'm fair

Absolutely. I respect anyone who has done their homework and arrived at a position.
We don't need to agree, I just want us to understand each other.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you have any online documented videos of you teaching?

No.
But I have plenty to recommend.

 

[St. SteVen]

Big typo from me, the title of the book is not 'Will the Real Heretics Please Satan Up" But, "Will the real heretics please STAND up" Lol. Too late to edit :/

I prefer the typo. - LOL

 

[Nancy]

I prefer the typo. - LOL

Yeah, it is actually more apt!

 

[St. SteVen]

Steven while I respect your stance, I would consider myself a Christian Reconcilaitonist.

Yes.
I prefer Ultimate Redemption. (UR)
I use Christian Universalist a lot. But Universal Reconciliation as well.
Even Universal Restoration. They all pretty much mean the same thing.
Most folks bristtle at Universalist. Confusing it with Universal Unitarianism.

The difference is mainly Universalism - says all path ways lead to heaven - ending up being with God.

Right. Universal Unitarianism. Not Christian Universalism.

Christ is the way, and those who seek out God in faith, i believe will be saved to the kingdom.

Every knee will bow, every tongue confess...

Those who remain faithless will be resurrected outside of the kingdom.

Is that how you see or believe?

Everyone will be resurrected outside of the kingdom.
Jesus said: "Everyone will be salted with fire." - Mark 9:49 NIV

 

[MatthewG]

No.
But I have plenty to recommend.

I had my own for a little while. I was high on meth and deleted them all. I wouldnt mind doing it again. Im still in early stages of recovery not for meth (3weeks this sunday) but off pot (7 days this sunday) im down right now but continue to pray.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yeah, it is actually more apt!

Thought it was so funny.

Brad Jersak is the guy for understanding UR.
This interview would be the next thing to recommend after the gospel in chairs.
He addresses the really tough questions.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes.
I prefer Ultimate Redemption. (UR)
I use Christian Universalist a lot. But Universal Reconciliation as well.
Even Universal Restoration. They all pretty much mean the same thing.
Most folks bristtle at Universalist. Confusing it with Universal Unitarianism.

I just base it off this verse

“how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, ‘Be ye reconciled to God;’”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, | Young's Literal Translati

how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors,

bible.com

Right. Universal Unitarianism. Not Christian Universalism.

Every knee will bow, every tongue confess...

No one said any different.

Everyone will be resurrected outside of the kingdom.
Jesus said: "Everyone will be salted with fire." - Mark 9:49 NIV

There are two ways that happens right?

Some people who believe in Jesus Christ today or baptized by the Holy Ghost and fire.

Then you have those who go into the lake a fire which are those outside of the kingdom.


That’s why I believe there should be a distinction. Where is universalism doesn’t give any distinction it seems like.

 

[MatthewG]

It seems segregation does exist in the heavenly realm. Where God resides in the kingdom of heaven. Just read Revelation 21 and 22.

There are the faithful and the faithless.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[St. SteVen]

I had my own for a little while. I was high on meth and deleted them all. I wouldnt mind doing it again. Im still in early stages of recovery not for meth (3weeks this sunday) but off pot (7 days this sunday) im down right now but continue to pray.

I should be doing videos. I'm a guitar player, songwriter/lyricist.
I have 49 tracks on SoundCloud.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522

 

[MatthewG]

I should be doing videos. I'm a guitar player, songwriter/lyricist.
I have 49 tracks on SoundCloud.
https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522

I’m OK on not listening.

I remember you now we used to talk on Christian something another, glad you are still around and breathing, Stephen.


That photograph in the audio I remember distinctly.

I’m just gonna go ahead and walk away. Have a good day..

 

[Stumpmaster]

It seems segregation does exist in the heavenly realm. Where God resides in the kingdom of heaven. Just read Revelation 21 and 22.

There are the faithful and the faithless.

Thanks for the conversation.

Good Morning.

Good point. Some things we can be sure of.

Rev 21:26-27 And into the city will be brought the glory and honor of the nations. (27) But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who practices an abomination or a lie, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. (15) But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.