Mary as New Eve

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GracePeace

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Jesus is the fulfillment of the "Adam" type (as taught in Romans 5 and elsewhere), so the New Eve must be the Church which is "Christ's body" and "Christ's Bride", just as Eve was Adam's body and bride. Not coincidentally, 2 Corinthians 11:3 explicitly teaches the Church corresponds to Eve.
Ipso facto, Mary is not New Eve. The Roman Catholics have erred.
 

GracePeace

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Also, the Roman Catholics try to claim Mary is "Spouse of the Spirit". Sorry, if she were the "New Eve" that would make the Spirit the "New Adam". Oops! That position's already taken! That's Christ! lol
 
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GracePeace

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Their Catechism teaches Mary is the New Eve. Two examples :

511 The Virgin Mary "cooperated through free faith and obedience in human salvation" (LG 56). She uttered her yes "in the name of all human nature" (St. Thomas Aquinas, Sth III, 30, 1). By her obedience she became the new Eve, mother of the living.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

So, isn't it the case that the Catholic Church, which claims infallibility on these matters, is erring--fallible?
 
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GISMYS_7

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Their Catechism teaches Mary is the New Eve. Two examples :

511 The Virgin Mary "cooperated through free faith and obedience in human salvation" (LG 56). She uttered her yes "in the name of all human nature" (St. Thomas Aquinas, Sth III, 30, 1). By her obedience she became the new Eve, mother of the living.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

So, isn't it the case that the Catholic Church, which claims infallibility on these matters, is erring--fallible?

NO scripture supports little men's ideas about Mary being anything more than a Good,blessed mother of Jesus!
 

GracePeace

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NO scripture supports little men's ideas about Mary being anything more than a Good,blessed mother of Jesus!
Beyond that, it appears the Scripture actually supports the Church as "New Eve"--the result being the falsification of the Roman Catholic "infallibility" doctrine.
 
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GracePeace

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NO scripture supports little men's ideas about Mary being anything more than a Good,blessed mother of Jesus!
I've had one Jesuit start trying to argue that I'm "overplaying" the "wife" dynamic of Eve--that before they fell God never intended them to have sex--when that was the very reason for which she was made (for them to multiply). LOL! Really! He knew the implications of the Biblical doctrine of the Church as "New Eve".

Others say "the doctrine of Mary as Eve isn't consequential in that way"--so, really, if literally the Catechism isn't an instance of the infallible teaching gift in action what can be?
 

theefaith

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Their Catechism teaches Mary is the New Eve. Two examples :

511 The Virgin Mary "cooperated through free faith and obedience in human salvation" (LG 56). She uttered her yes "in the name of all human nature" (St. Thomas Aquinas, Sth III, 30, 1). By her obedience she became the new Eve, mother of the living.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

So, isn't it the case that the Catholic Church, which claims infallibility on these matters, is erring--fallible?

what about the perpetual virginity of Mary

and the mother of our salvation
 

DPMartin

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Beyond that, it appears the Scripture actually supports the Church as "New Eve"--the result being the falsification of the Roman Catholic "infallibility" doctrine.

no it don't
 

theefaith

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no it don't

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. and Jn 8:32
Matt 28:19 the one true church founded by Christ cannot teach error or Christ would be the author of error

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

What power does Christ have?
What authority does Christ have?
What mission does Christ have?
The apostles have the same! Jn 20:21
 

GracePeace

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what about the perpetual virginity of Mary

and the mother of our salvation
Well, I was studying and found the Bible taught the Church was New Eve, then realized it disproved this supposedly authoritative teaching of the Catholics (perhaps also Orthodox).
Just FYI, I don't think God rejects people for having imperfect theology--I see that God is with some Catholics and Orthodox and some, Protestants, etc--so that's not what I'm trying to say.
Also I do hold there is a future judgment at which only doers of the Law/good will be justified Romans 2:6-16, Galatians 6:6-10, James 2.
 

Mungo

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Mary as the New Eve

Recapitulation

Recapitulation in scripture is about renewing and reversing what went wrong in previous times.

“For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth”. (Eph 1:9-10 - RSV)

Instead of “unite” other translations say “gather together” (KJV), “bring….together” (NIV), “sum up” (ASV).

In Christ, what went wrong is put right and some biblical themes of the fall are reversed and made new.

Paul uses this idea in 1Cor 15:20-22 & 45-45 when comparing Adam to Christ. Christ is the new Adam who undoes the damage cause by the first Adam’s disobedience (Rom 5:12-21).

Genesis (The Fall)
Let us therefore start with Jesus. Paul makes comparisons between Jesus and Adam, with Jesus reversing the problems for mankind that arose from the sin of Adam.
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1Cor 15:22)

“Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1Cor 15:45)

“Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” (Rom 5:14-15).

Adam was not alone. It was Eve who was first disobedient and then Adam.
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” (1Tim 2:13-14)

Adam was the original head of humanity. When Adam fell humanity fell with him. To restore what was originally intended mankind needed a new head with a new body. Jesus becomes the new head and the church the new body. This is known as recapitulation.

The original fall included Eve, indeed it was she that first listened to the serpent and disobeyed God. It would therefore be incomplete not to consider Eve’s role and how that could be reversed. Our recapitulation should include both.

In Genesis we are told God created a man, and from the man he created a woman and placed them in a garden. The man and the woman were is perfect harmony with each other and with God.

Then Satan deceived the woman (Eve) and she took some of the fruit they were forbidden to eat ate it. She also gave some to Adam who also ate it. Through their disobedience to God they lost the harmony they had with God and with each other. They were expelled from the garden.

The major fault was Adam’s. It was to him that God had given the command about the fruit. It was him who, as Paul said, brought death into the world (1Cor 15:21-22). It was Adam’s disobedience and fall that Christ came into the world to correct.

“But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.” (Gal 4:4-5).

Back in Gen 3:15 Jesus was promised, and also by implication was Mary, as Jesus was to be born of a woman (Gal 4:4 above). Both were planned and prepared for by God.

Although the primary sin was Adam’s, Eve too was implicated in the fall by her disobedience. It is fitting therefore that in the fullness of time there would be a second Eve (Mary) to undo what the first one did, just as the second Adam (Jesus) undid what the first Adam did.

They are like bookends between the fall and the beginning of our redemption.

First Adam, then Eve, made from Adam’s rib.
New Eve (Mary) then Jesus, formed in Mary’s womb.
“For as woman [Eve] was made from man {Adam], so man [New Adam] is now born of woman [New Eve]. And all things are from God.”(1Cor 11:12)

There are several parallels between Eve and Mary
Eve was a virgin who brought forth sin and death
Mary was a virgin who brought forth grace and salvation (Jesus)

Eve listened to a fallen angel (Satan) and conceived the word of the serpent in her heart.
Mary listened to an angel of God (Gabriel) conceived the Word of God in her womb.

Eve was disobedient to God
Mary was obedient to God.

Eve gave Adam the forbidden fruit which brought about the Fall
Mary gives us the fruit of her womb (Lk 1:42) which brought about Redemption

The Fall came when both Adam and Eve were together under the shadow of tree of Good and Evil.
Redemption came when the New Adam and the New Eve were together under the shadow of another tree – the cross.

The early fathers of the Church believed Mary was the New Eve.
Here are two early examples. Firstly Justin Martyr, writing in 160AD (Letter to Trypho) says:
“Christ became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience that proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord……And by her has He been born, to Whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by Whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him.”

Then Irenaeus of Lyons (140 – 202) says that just as Adam was the head of the old human race, so Jesus is the head of the new humanity. And, just as Adam had a collaborator in the person of Eve, so Jesus has a collaborator in the person of Mary. Mary is the Eve in God’s new creation. Writing in Against Heresies he says:
"In accordance with this design Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word”. But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when she was yet a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being as yet a virgin……having become disobedient was made the cause of death, both for herself and the whole human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed (to her), and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, became the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race."
 

GracePeace

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Mary as the New Eve

Recapitulation

Recapitulation in scripture is about renewing and reversing what went wrong in previous times.

“For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth”. (Eph 1:9-10 - RSV)

Instead of “unite” other translations say “gather together” (KJV), “bring….together” (NIV), “sum up” (ASV).

In Christ, what went wrong is put right and some biblical themes of the fall are reversed and made new.

Paul uses this idea in 1Cor 15:20-22 & 45-45 when comparing Adam to Christ. Christ is the new Adam who undoes the damage cause by the first Adam’s disobedience (Rom 5:12-21).

Genesis (The Fall)
Let us therefore start with Jesus. Paul makes comparisons between Jesus and Adam, with Jesus reversing the problems for mankind that arose from the sin of Adam.
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1Cor 15:22)

“Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1Cor 15:45)

“Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” (Rom 5:14-15).

Adam was not alone. It was Eve who was first disobedient and then Adam.
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” (1Tim 2:13-14)

Adam was the original head of humanity. When Adam fell humanity fell with him. To restore what was originally intended mankind needed a new head with a new body. Jesus becomes the new head and the church the new body. This is known as recapitulation.

The original fall included Eve, indeed it was she that first listened to the serpent and disobeyed God. It would therefore be incomplete not to consider Eve’s role and how that could be reversed. Our recapitulation should include both.

In Genesis we are told God created a man, and from the man he created a woman and placed them in a garden. The man and the woman were is perfect harmony with each other and with God.

Then Satan deceived the woman (Eve) and she took some of the fruit they were forbidden to eat ate it. She also gave some to Adam who also ate it. Through their disobedience to God they lost the harmony they had with God and with each other. They were expelled from the garden.

The major fault was Adam’s. It was to him that God had given the command about the fruit. It was him who, as Paul said, brought death into the world (1Cor 15:21-22). It was Adam’s disobedience and fall that Christ came into the world to correct.

“But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.” (Gal 4:4-5).

Back in Gen 3:15 Jesus was promised, and also by implication was Mary, as Jesus was to be born of a woman (Gal 4:4 above). Both were planned and prepared for by God.

Although the primary sin was Adam’s, Eve too was implicated in the fall by her disobedience. It is fitting therefore that in the fullness of time there would be a second Eve (Mary) to undo what the first one did, just as the second Adam (Jesus) undid what the first Adam did.

They are like bookends between the fall and the beginning of our redemption.

First Adam, then Eve, made from Adam’s rib.
New Eve (Mary) then Jesus, formed in Mary’s womb.
“For as woman [Eve] was made from man {Adam], so man [New Adam] is now born of woman [New Eve]. And all things are from God.”(1Cor 11:12)

There are several parallels between Eve and Mary
Eve was a virgin who brought forth sin and death
Mary was a virgin who brought forth grace and salvation (Jesus)

Eve listened to a fallen angel (Satan) and conceived the word of the serpent in her heart.
Mary listened to an angel of God (Gabriel) conceived the Word of God in her womb.

Eve was disobedient to God
Mary was obedient to God.

Eve gave Adam the forbidden fruit which brought about the Fall
Mary gives us the fruit of her womb (Lk 1:42) which brought about Redemption

The Fall came when both Adam and Eve were together under the shadow of tree of Good and Evil.
Redemption came when the New Adam and the New Eve were together under the shadow of another tree – the cross.

The early fathers of the Church believed Mary was the New Eve.
Here are two early examples. Firstly Justin Martyr, writing in 160AD (Letter to Trypho) says:
“Christ became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience that proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord……And by her has He been born, to Whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by Whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him.”

Then Irenaeus of Lyons (140 – 202) says that just as Adam was the head of the old human race, so Jesus is the head of the new humanity. And, just as Adam had a collaborator in the person of Eve, so Jesus has a collaborator in the person of Mary. Mary is the Eve in God’s new creation. Writing in Against Heresies he says:
"In accordance with this design Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word”. But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when she was yet a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being as yet a virgin……having become disobedient was made the cause of death, both for herself and the whole human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed (to her), and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, became the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race."
Address the Scriptures provided you in the OP.
I'm not interested in your context-rejecting straw-grasping.
 

theefaith

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There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9:4 why persecute me?

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
 

GracePeace

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There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9:4 why persecute me?

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
Question-begging.
 

theefaith

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The Church is subordinate to the Word of God.

The Supreme Authority is God the Father, then Christ, then the Church.


the Bible says

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles not Bible
  1. 1 Timothy 3:15
    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Not the bible
 

GracePeace

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the Bible says

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles not Bible
  1. 1 Timothy 3:15
    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Not the bible
1. The Church is subordinate to the Word of God, and the Word of God is subordinate to God the Father.
2. The fact that the Church is "the pillar and ground of the truth" stems from its having issued from Christ, Who is the Truth--it is just another proof that she, and not Mary, is the New Eve.
 
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