Matthew 24

[covenantee]

The discourse was NOT talking about the first century. No.

There is no Biblical evidence that it's talking about anything but one time period when the Lord would return in judgment. These "signs" were "these things" that would be the harbinger of the Lord's Second Advent. When we carefully examine the WHOLE chapter in order, in context, we conclude the whole idea of AD 70 is forced and untenable! Read carefully in context:

Matthew 24:33-36

• "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
• Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
• Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
• But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

The time when "all these things" shall be fulfilled is "THE" end of the world. And all "these things" shall not be fulfilled until the end of the world. For a list of all "these things" one has only to carefully examine Matthew 24. Not "some" of these things, but "ALL" of these things must be fulfilled, and they weren't in AD 70. Sorry to disappoint you RWB and Covenantee.

Now I like to add that some Preterists even suggested the "40-year probationary period." I mean... what forty-year probationary period are you Preterists referring to? What chapter and verse is that prophecy in? I don't see the Biblical validation for saying that God prophesied to give Israel a forty-year probationary period. If that is true, where is the prophecy? Christ told Israel very clearly that, "behold your house is left unto you desolate." Despite popular ideas about Israel's judgment, Israel didn't fall in AD 70, but the minute Christ died on the cross. The minute that darkness covered the land. The Temple veil rent from top to bottom as a sign that the shadows or types of the land, Priest, and temple were completed. The physical Temple was no longer the Holy place, the veil within no longer separating men from God, as Christ the true Temple and veil now replaced it. Israel had been judged, blinded, and left with no prophet and no vision. And no, there was no probationary period! That Jerusalem had already been judged, their city burned, and their kingdom given to another. Not in AD 70, but at the time of Christ's death and resurrection. Remember the temple fell and CHrist rebuilt it in 3 days. It did not occur in 70AD!
Likewise, when the New Testament congregation is judged, it is the representation of Jerusalem. It is the beloved city that Revelation 20 says Satan attacks when he is loosed. It's not a plot of dirt or a physical city in the Middle East, It is the New Testament congregation. And speaking of this time when they are to flee and not come down from the housetops, etc, God continues..

Matthew 24:21

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Was there great tribulation in AD 70 greater tribulation than at any other time period, or greater than any period since, or that ever will be? Please! Of Course Not!!! I don't care what that man called, Josephus claimed. The whole idea would require such gymnastics as to be spiritually twisted. Moreover...

Matthew 24:29-31

• "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
• And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
• And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

There is NO POSSIBILITY of erroneously intermingling these prophesies, For God first said the tribulation was in the days of fleeing to the mountains, and "THEN" seals these truths by declaring unambiguously that IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation "of those days" there is seen the sign of Christ's return. Selah!

More historical fulfillments of Jesus' prophecies.

Suetonius and Tacitus are recognized historians.

You're not.

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: “And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom” (24:6, 7).
Mark: “And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom” (13:7, 8).
Luke: “But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom” (21:9, 10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. But Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes, within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero “drove a dagger into his throat.” Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and “thrusting his thumb into the mouth”, carried the horrid trophy about. Otho “stabbed himself” in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then “dragged by a hook into the Tiber.” We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these “Disturbances in Germany”, “commotions in Africa”, “commotions in Thrace”, “insurrections in Gaul”, “intrigues among the Parthians”, “the war in Britain”, “war in Armenia.”

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor’s armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: “See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet.” The word “end” that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression “end of the world.” (See footnote on page 59). As Barnes says, the end here referred to is “the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem.”

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

Great Prophecies of the Bible
Ralph Woodrow

 

[covenantee]

The discourse was NOT talking about the first century. No.

There is no Biblical evidence that it's talking about anything but one time period when the Lord would return in judgment. These "signs" were "these things" that would be the harbinger of the Lord's Second Advent. When we carefully examine the WHOLE chapter in order, in context, we conclude the whole idea of AD 70 is forced and untenable! Read carefully in context:

Matthew 24:33-36

• "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
• Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
• Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
• But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

The time when "all these things" shall be fulfilled is "THE" end of the world. And all "these things" shall not be fulfilled until the end of the world. For a list of all "these things" one has only to carefully examine Matthew 24. Not "some" of these things, but "ALL" of these things must be fulfilled, and they weren't in AD 70. Sorry to disappoint you RWB and Covenantee.

Now I like to add that some Preterists even suggested the "40-year probationary period." I mean... what forty-year probationary period are you Preterists referring to? What chapter and verse is that prophecy in? I don't see the Biblical validation for saying that God prophesied to give Israel a forty-year probationary period. If that is true, where is the prophecy? Christ told Israel very clearly that, "behold your house is left unto you desolate." Despite popular ideas about Israel's judgment, Israel didn't fall in AD 70, but the minute Christ died on the cross. The minute that darkness covered the land. The Temple veil rent from top to bottom as a sign that the shadows or types of the land, Priest, and temple were completed. The physical Temple was no longer the Holy place, the veil within no longer separating men from God, as Christ the true Temple and veil now replaced it. Israel had been judged, blinded, and left with no prophet and no vision. And no, there was no probationary period! That Jerusalem had already been judged, their city burned, and their kingdom given to another. Not in AD 70, but at the time of Christ's death and resurrection. Remember the temple fell and CHrist rebuilt it in 3 days. It did not occur in 70AD!
Likewise, when the New Testament congregation is judged, it is the representation of Jerusalem. It is the beloved city that Revelation 20 says Satan attacks when he is loosed. It's not a plot of dirt or a physical city in the Middle East, It is the New Testament congregation. And speaking of this time when they are to flee and not come down from the housetops, etc, God continues..

Matthew 24:21

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Was there great tribulation in AD 70 greater tribulation than at any other time period, or greater than any period since, or that ever will be? Please! Of Course Not!!! I don't care what that man called, Josephus claimed. The whole idea would require such gymnastics as to be spiritually twisted. Moreover...

Matthew 24:29-31

• "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
• And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
• And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

There is NO POSSIBILITY of erroneously intermingling these prophesies, For God first said the tribulation was in the days of fleeing to the mountains, and "THEN" seals these truths by declaring unambiguously that IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation "of those days" there is seen the sign of Christ's return. Selah!

More historical fulfillments of Jesus' prophecies.

Eusebius is a recognized historian, the "Father of Church History".

You're not.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew: “And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (24:7, 8).
Mark: “And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows” (13:8).
Luke: “And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights” (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine “throughout all the world. . . in the days of Claudius Caesar” (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. “The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethern which dwelt in Judaea” (verse 29). Paul’s instructions concerning this “collection [of fruit] for the saints” is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a “Failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon.” Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Home, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilences; that is plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of “pestilence” at Home in the days of Nero which was so severe that “within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons.” Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A.D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 66. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that “frequent earthquakes occured, by which many houses were thrown down” and that “twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake.”

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: “How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once.” He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A. D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown — Laodocia being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A. D., the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

Great Prophecies of the Bible
Ralph Woodrow

 

[covenantee]

The discourse was NOT talking about the first century. No.

More historical fulfillments of Jesus' prophecies.

The disciples are recognized historians.

You're not.

PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold.

Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

 

[covenantee]

The discourse was NOT talking about the first century. No.

More historical fulfillments of Jesus' prophecies.

Sorry to disappoint you.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

 

[covenantee]

What to believe?

The futurized fantasies and fallacies of modernist armchair denialists.
or
The steadfast immutable evidence from Scripture and history preserved for our learning and benefit through the ages.

Who needs a hint?

 

[Red Baker]

No disappointment at all.

You should be, and would be, if the word of God is the only and final authority concerning truth, as it was with Jesus, and his apostles.

One great truth which came out of the reformation movement is that those goldy men stood on Sola Scriptura, history and traditions meant little to those men that led the way. I do not have to spend time proving this, it's there for all to read for themselves.

What truth they did lack was more owing to the fact that they were a few hundred years away from the end of the world IMO ~therefore, so much prophecies was hidden from them, even though, if your read their works, they were on the right track, just not far enough along to see as clearly as we can now see.

Matthew: “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many” (24:4,5).
Mark: “And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many” (13:5,6).
Luke: “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them” (21:8).

We notice that all three accounts warn about deceivers. But Luke’s account explains WHEN these things would happen. Jesus Said: “And the time DRAWETH NEAR: go ye not therefore after them.” Jesus was not talking about something that would take place hundreds or thousands of years later. Jesus was warning his disciples about something that was drawing near in their time. This is plain.

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus,

Yes, Jesus started out his last message before going to the cross concerning days leading up to his second coming based on the context of all three accounts.

You and your friends are divorcing scriptures that God has joined together~why do you strongly desire to put asunder what the Spirit of God has joined together? Matthew 25 is part of the Olivet discourse and from Matthew 24:29 to the end of Matthew 25 is clearly speaking of Jesus' second visible return to gather together his elect from the four winds of the heavens and to judge and punish the wicked.

Those few deceivers that you found in Josephus' writings is nothing to compared to the thousands, maybe even millions and actually thousands of millions if you count their deceived followers that shall fill this world just before Jesus' second coming. This is the spiritual tribulation the like, the world has never seen, nor will ever see!

2nd Thessalonians 2:3​

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

A man of sin, like a man of war, is one proficient and forward in sin and sinning. The man of sin is just as it sounds: man of sin...man of sin

Collective nouns are single in number, but include all of their species (Ist Timothy 2:11; 2nd Timothy 3:17; Psalms 10:18; 37:7; Hebrews 9:7).
So in 2nd Thess 2, I ask this question ; which comes first, the man of sin, or Christ's coming to gather together his elect? Man of sin comes first just as it is taught in Matthew 24

The man of sin will be a multitudes of deceiver followers of many false prophets!

So, we will heed Paul's exhortation of not allowing any man to deceive us by any means, including trying to force a fulfillment on Matthew 24,25, when in truth we are living right in the very midst of those days.

 

[rwb]

No disappointment at all.

Historical fulfillments of Jesus' prophecies.

Notwithstanding your opinion of Josephus, he is a recognized historian.

You're not.

DECEIVERS

Matthew: “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many” (24:4,5).
Mark: “And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many” (13:5,6).
Luke: “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them” (21:8).

We notice that all three accounts warn about deceivers. But Luke’s account explains WHEN these things would happen. Jesus Said: “And the time DRAWETH NEAR: go ye not therefore after them.” Jesus was not talking about something that would take place hundreds or thousands of years later. Jesus was warning his disciples about something that was drawing near in their time. This is plain.

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour’s death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY — a statement which indicates that there were many of such in those days.

An Egyptian who “pretended to be a prophet” gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show “how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down.”

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet.

These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were a great number, and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be “many.”

Great Prophecies of the Bible
Ralph Woodrow

Futurists are devoid of understanding that the message from Christ was of greater importance to the first century Christian disciples than any other time on earth. Because they had to understand to survive the great tribulation that would begin that must continue to be carried on toward faithful saints that would be born again through their preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Had none of the message been directed especially, yet not limited to these first Jewish disciples as futurists claim, there would not be any message at all telling us the nearness of Christ coming again! Who would Christ come again for if His chosen messengers beginning with these Jewish Christians did not understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of God was for building a SPIRITUAL Kingdom, not a physical one. It's nonsense to believe the words Christ spoke on the Mount of Olives are directed only to the last generation who shall live to see Christ coming again. If the Gospel of the Kingdom of God were at any time since the advent of Christ broken out of fear of death, then how could the spiritual Kingdom of God grow into the great innumerable multitude it shall be when the Kingdom is complete?

Your reply is right on!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Chosen generation was not mean to pass away. Rather it is the evil generaiton that will pass away ONLY AFTER ALL THESE THINGS CONCERNING THEM in the context shall be fulfilled.

"A chosen generation" uses the Greek term "genos", meaning a people type or a race.

But when Christ accused the corrupt individuals of His day, saying "You unbelieving and perverse generation!" (Matt. 17:17) the Greek word used here is "genea", meaning Christ's contemporaries of His own time - a set time period.

Just because some translations like the KJV use the same generic term "generation" for both of these quotes does not make "Genos" and "Genea" have the same meaning.

When Christ said "THIS generation (genea) shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled", He was not talking about a type or race of people. He was talking about His own contemporary time period which would not expire until all those things took place before that first-century generation of individuals living at that time had passed

 

[rwb]

You should be, and would be, if the word of God is the only and final authority concerning truth, as it was with Jesus, and his apostles.

One great truth which came out of the reformation movement is that those goldy men stood on Sola Scriptura, history and traditions meant little to those men that led the way. I do not have to spend time proving this, it's there for all to read for themselves.

What truth they did lack was more owing to the fact that they were a few hundred years away from the end of the world IMO ~therefore, so much prophecies was hidden from them, even though, if your read their works, they were on the right track, just not far enough along to see as clearly as we can now see.

Sola Scriptura doesn't mean historical fulfillment tells us nothing at all! Even the Bible itself gives us the story of redemptive history. How would we even know of the reformation movement were it not for the historical writings the reformers have penned for us?

Yes, Jesus started out his last message before going to the cross concerning days leading up to his second coming based on the context of all three accounts.

You and your friends are divorcing scriptures that God has joined together~why do you strongly desire to put asunder what the Spirit of God has joined together? Matthew 25 is part of the Olivet discourse and from Matthew 24:29 to the end of Matthew 25 is clearly speaking of Jesus' second visible return to gather together his elect from the four winds of the heavens and to judge and punish the wicked.

Those few deceivers that you found in Josephus' writings is nothing to compared to the thousands, maybe even millions and actually thousands of millions if you count their deceived followers that shall fill this world just before Jesus' second coming. This is the spiritual tribulation the like, the world has never seen, nor will ever see!

The second coming of Christ is not the main priority for Christ. That was not the greatest challenge facing these first century Jewish disciples as they preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God throughout the world. Futurists ignore the FACT that His first disciples, whom He chose to be His first messengers to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God were beloved by Him. The focus of His message to them was not about His coming again although He has somewhat to say of that in answer to their questions. The majority of what Christ spoke is directed to all that shall come to EVERY disciple as they take the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the earth. Why can you not understand that this is of far greater importance for building the spiritual Kingdom of God than the second coming of Christ?

If great tribulation shall be limited to just before the second coming of Christ, why does Christ tell His first century disciples it would be shortened for the sake of the elect? Christ says the reason it's shortened is because if it were not "there should no flesh be saved". That sounds more like the beginning of preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and not at the very end. Think about it, why would Christ be concerned about His elect being killed before they are saved just prior to the second coming, AFTER the spiritual Kingdom of God is already complete?

Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The "great tribulation" that Christ warns all His disciples of, is not limited to either the first century disciples of Christ, nor will it be limited to the final century of disciples still alive when Christ comes the second time. "Great tribulation" that was never before and shall not again be is the spiritual warfare that came when Christ came to earth with the spiritual Kingdom of God and will not end until the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. The forces of evil would be given equal amounts of time to attack and destroy the Church (Christ & Christians) on earth as has never before been, and once the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete, shall never be again. There has never been any other tribulation on the earth as the persecution and martyrdom the disciples of Christ (Church) are called to endure in this life as they preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the world. Still through "great tribulation" like never before, Christ will build His Church and the gates of hell shall not be able to prevail against it. That's because the Church (Christians) shall be built upon Christ, the Son of the living God. For He alone is the Rock and our salvation.

Matthew 16:15-17 (KJV) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The man of sin will be a multitudes of deceiver followers of many false prophets!

So, we will heed Paul's exhortation of not allowing any man to deceive us by any means, including trying to force a fulfillment on Matthew 24,25, when in truth we are living right in the very midst of those days.

The man of sin in multitudes of deceivers and false prophets has never been limited to any one particular time in redemptive history. That's why John writes there were many antichrists from the beginning, when Christ came with His spiritual Kingdom of God to earth. They have been among believers from the beginning, attempting to subvert the souls of believers in Christ. Futurists limit the last time to time just prior to the return of Christ, but Scripture tells us we have been in the last days, the last time since the advent of Christ come to the world a man.

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Acts 15:24 (KJV) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

1 John 2:19 (KJV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Though I agree the false will be greater in number near the end just prior to Christ coming again, it makes no sense to have greater fear of them then. Why, will not the spiritual Kingdom of God be complete just before the second coming of Christ? And we have Christ's promise the Spirit within us is greater than he that is in this world.

1 John 4:4 (KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[rwb]

When Christ said "THIS generation (genea) shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled", He was not talking about a type or race of people. He was talking about His own contemporary time period which would not expire until all those things took place before that first-century generation of individuals living at that time had passed

Not so! "This generation" is the "chosen generation" that shall NEVER pass, not even after all these things have been fulfilled!

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Peter 2:10 (KJV) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[Zao is life]

Greetings RB; glad that there is something that we can agree upon.

The context is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. An event of this significance would not possibly go unprophesied.

The destruction of Jerusalem encompassed both physical and spiritual realities, as I believe that I've shown, and with which I believe that you've agreed.

One reality would be meaningless without the other.

The reason you are mistaken is because the context of what Jesus spoke about after He sat down on the Mount of Olives would be this:

Luke 21
37 And in the days He was teaching in the temple. And in the nights He went out, and lodged in the mount called the Mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to Him in the temple, in order to hear Him.

Jesus spoke about the stones of the brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem while He was in the temple, and just outside the temple:

And Jesus went out and departed from the temple. And His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone on another that shall not be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-2

Luke 21
37 And in the days He was teaching in the temple. And in the nights He went out, and lodged in the mount called the Mount of Olives.

Mathew 24
3 And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the world?

In all three synoptic gospels, the first thing Jesus began speaking about was birth-pain signs of the end of the Age and His coming, and He followed this with speaking about the persecution and tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament will experience.

That's the context of the Lord's Olivet Discourse.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Not so! "This generation" is the "chosen generation" that shall NEVER pass, not even after all these things have been fulfilled!

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Peter 2:10 (KJV) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

You are mixing up the word "genea" with the word "genos". They don't mean the same thing at all. "Genos" means a type of people or a race. "Genea" means a specific age of time.

When Christ used the term "THIS generation" (genea), He was referring to all those living then along with their children at that specific time period. As Christ once accused His own generation in Matt. 12:39-43, "The queen of the south will rise up in the judgment with THIS GENERATION (geneas) and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon IS HERE".

Right then and there in Christ's own generation of time, those Israelites in general were rejecting Christ and His message. This was going to earn them condemnation from the Queen of Sheba in the judgment, since she went to great lengths to hear Solomon in person, and of course, Christ was greater than Solomon.

It would be the same with the people of Nineveh. "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with THIS GENERATION (geneas), and shall condemn it; because they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and, behold, a greater than Jonas IS HERE."

Right then and there in Christ's own generation of time, the rejection by that generation of Israelites would earn them condemnation by the Ninevites in the judgment, because they had repented by hearing the preaching of Jonas, who was, of course, less important than Christ.

 

[TribulationSigns]

"A chosen generation" uses the Greek term "genos", meaning a people type or a race.

That is incorrect! Again, I will say this, the word translated generation here is the Greek word [genea], which first denotes posterity (family), and then a specific or particular family timeline. As one might say "the previous generation," or "the next generation." I would be talking about a family era. It is from the Greek word [genos] literally meaning family or relative. For example as [genos] is used in 1st Peter which you misunderstood who chosen generation really is. Read carefully:

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

That means a God-determined "family" or kinfolk chosen to be "children" of light. Indeed, called out of the family of darkness unto light. God is declaring that we are "now" of the family of Christ, just as the wicked are a generation or family of vipers...as indeed we once were the wicked or sinful generation (Mark 8:38). the wicked generation of family exists throughout time, and the blood from Abel to Christ will be required of it. Because it spans that time, even unto today. Obviously, God did not talk about a certain people or family of darkness unto light that took within 30-40 years. Absurd!

Matthew 12:39

• "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"

The evil generation that Christ speaks of is not simply the people of the era when Christ walked the earth. It is any children of the family of evil. They are the sinful generation, the generation of evil that Christ referred to. And this is the same word [genea] used in Matthew 24. This generation or family of evil shall not pass until all be fulfilled. And true to His word, this generation hasn't passed and all is not yet fulfilled. These wicked children are still present in the world today! It is that generation whom the beast in the end time will deceive and gather together to assault the camp of the saints. Then, and only then, will all be fulfilled.

Spiritually, it is a family relationship. Just as we are the posterity of Christ (having been born of the Spirit of God), the wicked are the children of the Devil, having the spirit of disobedience (Ephesians 5:6-9). Two distinct and opposing families. We are either the children of light, or we are the children of darkness. Not the children strictly within the 1st century. There is no other alternative (Ephesians 5:8; 1st Thessalonians 5:5). And the children of wickedness are a generation or family unit. This can be proven quite easily:

Luke 16:8

• "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Christ is declaring that the family of the world is more prudent and wise in their interests and concerns of this life, than the family of the light are in their interests and concerns for the world to come. And we often see this as Christians not really concerned with any preparation for the hereafter, just their own talent hid away in the earth. Not very smart. Here again, this is the same word [genea]. The children of the family of darkness, are in their own way wiser than the children of the family of light "in that they prepared for "their" future. The word generation here means the posterity or family of the children! In other words, the spiritual family of Satan that span from the beginning of time to the last day.

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time-period in this context. This well-oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists, like you, like to claim it means, around a 30-year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable.

Case closed.

 

[covenantee]

The reason you are mistaken is because the context of what Jesus spoke about after He sat down on the Mount of Olives would be this:

Luke 21
37 And in the days He was teaching in the temple. And in the nights He went out, and lodged in the mount called the Mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to Him in the temple, in order to hear Him.

Jesus spoke about the stones of the brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem while He was in the temple, and just outside the temple:

And Jesus went out and departed from the temple. And His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone on another that shall not be thrown down. Matthew 24:1-2

Luke 21
37 And in the days He was teaching in the temple. And in the nights He went out, and lodged in the mount called the Mount of Olives.

Mathew 24
3 And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the world?

In all three synoptic gospels, the first thing Jesus began speaking about was birth-pain signs of the end of the Age and His coming, and He followed this with speaking about the persecution and tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament will experience.

That's the context of the Lord's Olivet Discourse.

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus answered His disciples' questions in the order in which they were asked.

The first question related to these things i.e. the buildings/stones of the temple and their fate.

The initial ensuring verses of the discourse answer that question, in Jesus' description of the signs which would precede the coming destruction.

 

[covenantee]

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time period in this context. This well-oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists, like you, like to claim it means, around a 30-year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable.

1074 [e]
genea
γενεὰ
generation
N-NFS

"the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34"

I'm confident that Bro. Strong's mastery of Greek surpasses yours.

 

[Zao is life]

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus answered His disciples' questions in the order in which they were asked.

The first question related to these things i.e. the buildings/stones of the temple and their fate.

The initial ensuring verses of the discourse answer that question, in Jesus' description of the signs which would precede the coming destruction.

On the Mount of Olives the disciples asked Jesus the above question because of what He had told them when He was coming out of the temple.

You are not telling the truth about what Jesus' first words were on the Mount of Olives when He replied to them. His first words said nothing further about the stones of the Old Testament temple. Instead, He began telling them about signs which would precede a time when His disciples - the living stones of the New Testament temple - would be handed over to tribulation and be killed. This is the same in all three synpotic gospels, and is there for all to read.

You are misrepresenting what is written.

 

[rwb]

When Christ used the term "THIS generation" (genea), He was referring to all those living then along with their children at that specific time period. As Christ once accused His own generation in Matt. 12:39-43, "The queen of the south will rise up in the judgment with THIS GENERATION (geneas) and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon IS HERE".

Christ was not talking of all those living in the first century belonging to Israel. Speaking to His disciples living then, speaking to and about them, Christ says, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Christ says this to them right after speaking to them a parable of the fig tree. He tells them they will see life on the fig tree and in fact all the trees, just as one would expect to see trees beginning to come to life again at the end of winter. So too they will understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that Christ is sending them unto all the world to preach is showing life, where before there had been only darkness and fear of death. And where there is spiritual life according to grace through faith for all who hear the Gospel and believe will be "this generation" the "chosen generation" that shall never pass away.

Matthew 24:32-34 (KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Genea comes from Genos, that is a nation, time offspring, countrymen. The elect, chosen generation of God is called a "holy nation" of individuals throughout time that are of the offspring of Christ, born during the age of grace, a diverse people from every nation, tribe, knidred and tongue, yet of the same stock, born in time.

γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah' - from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):—age, generation, nation, time.

γένος génos, ghen'-os - from G1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):—born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock.

The same is true of the evil generation who are of their father the devil. The too are an unholy body of unbelievers throughout time from every nation tribe, kindred and tongue, never belonging to the offspring or stock of Christ, destined to the LOF that is the second death.

Matthew 12:39 (KJV) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

It would be the same with the people of Nineveh. "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with THIS GENERATION (geneas), and shall condemn it; because they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and, behold, a greater than Jonas IS HERE."

How are the Ninevites and Queen of Sheba able to make judgment against the adulterous generation of evil doers? Is it not because the Ninevites repented at the preaching of the Word of God? Repentance comes through hearts convicted of sin. And did not the Queen of Sheba acknowledge that Solomon's great wisdom came from the God of Israel, how else could he have such great wisdom and his kingdom be is peace?

Matthew 12:39 (KJV) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 12:42 (KJV) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

 

[covenantee]

On the Mount of Olives the disciples asked Jesus the above question because of what He had told them when He was coming out of the temple.

You are not telling the truth about what Jesus' first words were on the Mount of Olives when He replied to them. His first words said nothing further about the stones of the Old Testament temple. Instead, He began telling them about signs which would precede a time when His disciples - the living stones of the New Testament temple - would be handed over to tribulation and be killed. This is the same in all three synpotic gospels, and is there for all to read.

You are misrepresenting what is written.

You are denying what is written.

"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

What further words do you think are necessary?

Notice the "here".

Literal stones there, not symbolic stones of the Church.

 

[Zao is life]

You are denying what is written.

"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

What further words do you think are necessary?

Notice the "here".

Literal stones there, not symbolic stones of the Church.

Where was Jesus when He said that?

When you stop denying what is written regarding what Jesus said after He sat down on the Mount of Olives, then you will start admitting what Jesus said after He had sat down on the Mount of Olives. Easy, is it not?

When you stop denying what is written regarding what Jesus first said after He sat down on the Mount of Olives, then you will start admitting the fact that it had nothing to do with the temple He had spoken about not long before, i.e before His short journey between the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives, i.e it had nothing to do with the disciples' question regarding the temple He had spoken to them about before walking down the Temple Mount, crossing the Kidron Valley and walking up the Mount of Olives.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

1074 [e]
genea
γενεὰ
generation
N-NFS

"the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34"

I'm confident that Bro. Strong's mastery of Greek surpasses yours.

Please use the complete Strong explanation when quoting them regarding genea.

Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) -- race, family, generation

Strong's Concordance
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Definition: race, family, generation
Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

At last reading (All quotes from Nasb95)

Mathew 24 :34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Mark 13:30 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Luke 21:32 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.

Remember : it is said... by Strongs ... "if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time."

Until is most definitely a TIME word.

Webster: Until, till, and 'til are all used in modern English to denote when something will happen.
~formal : until the time when
~1 of 2 preposition un· til ən-ˈtil -ˈtel; ˈən-ˌtil, -ˌtel, -tᵊl Synonyms of until 1 chiefly Scotland : to 2 used as a function word to indicate continuance (as of an action or condition) to a specified time stayed

Cambridge: Until as a preposition means 'up to (the time that)': We played chess until midnight. (up to midnight)

B1 not before a particular time or event:

Dictionery.com : Until definition: up to the time that or when;

speakspeak . com : Until refers to time.

Finally:

Greek interlinear uses
genea in Mathew 24:34 Matthew 24 Interlinear Bible

genea in Mark 13: 30 Mark 13 Interlinear Bible

genea in Luke 21:32 Luke 21 Interlinear Bible