Matthew 24

[covenantee]

Greetings covenantee~I have no problem with your statement here, none whatsoever.

Greetings RB; glad that there is something that we can agree upon.

This I disagree with, since the context does not support this view.

The context is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. An event of this significance would not possibly go unprophesied.

The destruction of Jerusalem encompassed both physical and spiritual realities, as I believe that I've shown, and with which I believe that you've agreed.

One reality would be meaningless without the other.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Really? I would suggest that is you!

Hardly. Unlike Red, you haven’t prove your position with scripture. Just speculations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, I agree, you also are more than welcome to prove what you allege!

Red already did. In post #152 that refute your errors. Now where is your biblical refutation with scripture.

 

[covenantee]

A little light reading for all posters here. I suspect it will be too long, so when needed I will cut it and you can finish at the link.

What does "this generation" mean in Matthew 24:34?

This Q&A explains the meaning of the word generation in Matthew 24:34. The word is often translated as "birth, descent, children and race."

www.neverthirsty.org

What does “this generation” mean in Matthew 24:34? There are three possible meanings to this phrase. We can discover the meaning after we understand the context of the verse.

Context of the Olivet Discourse​

The answer Jesus gave to His disciples about the end times is called the Olivet Discourse. The context of Matthew 24:1-25:46; Mark 13:5-27; and Luke 21:8-28 is that the disciples wanted to know when “will all these things be.” They wanted to know the signs of the end times. Earlier Luke 19:11 reveals the disciples assumed the kingdom of God would appear immediately, but they were wrong. Later after Christ’s death and resurrection Luke 24:21 tells us that two disciples were looking for the kingdom. In addition, Acts 1:6 says the disciples asked when the kingdom would appear. Matthew 24:4 already told us the disciples were curious about the end time events. That is, the disciple’s overriding concern of the disciples in the final days of Jesus’ earthly ministry was about the arrival of the earthly kingdom. However, amillennialist, postmillennialist and preterists would have us believe they were primarily concerned about the temple. But the message of the gospels and the book of Acts reveal that is not true. So, the content of this generation” in Matthew 24:34 is about future events, and not about the temple.

Meaning of This Generation — Option 1​

The Greek word that is translated as “generation” in Matthew 24:34 is genea. This word means more than just “generation.” It has the idea of birth, descent, descendants, family, and race. It was even used to refer to the end times.[1] Therefore, some have claimed that “this generation” refers to the Jewish race. That is, the Jewish race would not disappear until the tribulation and the second coming of Christ have occurred for Matthew 24:34 states that this generation would not pass away “until all these things take place.” That is, all these things that are described in verses 5-24. If that were the correct meaning, then the promise would be an empty or hollow one because the Jewish race will continue until heaven and earth have passed away (2 Peter 3:10-13) is realized. This option would imply that Jesus hoped all these things would occur in some far distant future before everyone died. So, this generation cannot refer to the Jewish race.

Meaning of This Generation — Option 2​

A second view says the word generation refers to the generation of people who were alive when Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse in A.D. 33. Some claim that “generation” consistently means the people who were alive in Jesus’ day throughout the New Testament. But a search for genea in the New Testament reveals that is not true. The word genea occurs forty-three times in the New Testament. The plural form of genea is used many times to refer to multiple generations and not just the people who were alive at the time of Christ. But we are interested in the singular form of genea. So here are a few examples. They are sufficient to demonstrate that the singular form of genea does not always refer to the people of Jesus’ day. For example, in Luke 1:50 it is clear that generation does not refer to those in Christ’s time. It says, “upon generation after generation.” In Hebrews 3:9-10, generation does not refer to people to whom Jesus spoke those words either. It refers to the generation in the wilderness. The context is important. Some Bible teachers would have us believe that generation as used in the New Testament always refers to the people of Jesus’ time prior to A.D. 70.

But the context of the Matthew passage is about the generation who will be living when all these things occur. That is the context of the passage. So, amillennialist, postmillennialist and preterists, without solid proof, speculate that the generation referred to a time span of thirty or forty years, since that is the time from procreation to procreation and takes them from A.D. 33 to A.D. 70. It is important to remember that generation is not a technical term. It is a general word with broad Semantic range and must be interpreted by the context.

Now if we assume that generation does refer to the people of Jesus’ time, we have a serious problem with this view. First, all these things did not occur before A.D. 70. For example, the prophecy in Matthew 24:14 that states the gospel would be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations could not have occurred before A.D. 70. What we know is that the gospel may have been preached in Spain since the apostle Paul had hoped to do that. But there is no proof the gospel was ever preached there or any in any other of the continents on the globe. That is, the gospel was not preached to all nations. It is speculation that it must have occurred, but speculation does not prove occurrence.

A second point is that both Daniel 9:27 and 12:11 refer to the abomination of desolation as a future event, but Daniel 11:31 does not. Yet, some Bible teachers want us to believe Matthew 24:15 is referring exclusively to only Daniel 11:31. That was a past event. But it is more likely that Jesus referred to the future desolation event described in Daniel 9:27 and 12:11. The context of Daniel 12 is the final resurrection at the end of the age—resurrection and rewards. So, Daniel 12:11 could not have occurred in AD. 70, unless one wants to employ an allegorical hermeneutic and not a literal one. An allegorical hermeneutic will allow the author to creatively redefine anything in the pages of Scripture that does not fit his eschatological system.

Third, Matthew 24:30 says that Christ would be seen in the clouds of the sky.


Some Bible teachers would have us believe that verse 30 says the people would see a sign. So, they ask what was the sign? Just notice the context. It defines the sign. It says the people would see the Son of Man. The sign will be the Son of Man. The Greek scholar A. T. Robertson states that the correct understanding of the first part of the verse is “and then will appear the sign, which is the Son of Man in heaven.” In Greek grammar this is an appositional use of the genitive case.[2] Advocates of this view state this sign occurred in A.D. 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. But Mark 13:26 clearly and literally tells us “they will see the Son of Man.” Jesus will be the sign, and not some celestial anomalies.

Fourth, notice that Matthew 24:30 says “all the tribes of the earth will mourn” when they see the Son of Man coming. But there are no historical records of anyone seeing Jesus in A.D. 70. It is not enough to claim the second coming of Christ occurred over Jerusalem. Some Bible teachers change their literal approach to an allegorical approach of interpretation and speculate that all the tribes of the earth will mourn” means the tribes of Israel. That is, “all the tribes of the earth” does not mean all the tribes of the earth. The whole earth does not need to see Him. But the verse says all of the tribes of the world will see this event. They would see Jesus and not some unusual event in the sky. Jesus clearly implied it would be a worldwide spectacle in verse 27. Verse 27 indicates that everyone who is alive will see Him. The point is that the second coming did not occur in Jerusalem in A.D. 70. To claim that the second coming did occur in a spiritual sense begs the question why not a physical occurrence?

Fifth, the event in Matthew 24:31 has not occurred yet. Those who claim verse 31 has already occurred cannot support their claim. If all of the elect were gathered together, where did the angels collect them?


Go to the link to finish Option 2 of Meaning of this Generation

Go to the link for Meaning of this Generation -Option 3 and Conclusion

Matthew 24:34 Greek

1074 [e]
genea
γενεὰ
generation
N-NFS

"3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34;"

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, I thought I recognized the doctrine you both espouse. I am very familiar with Tony's teaching, and have learned greatly from him. I've read and studied many in fact probably most of his articles, and I too find him to be a Godly man, teaching truth, but like you, Tony too is a futurist, and cannot accept that the Olivet Discourse is not almost exclusively for the very last days just before Christ returns. Which IMHO makes a complete mockery of the words Christ spoke to His first century kinsmen according to the flesh.

No, we speak the truth.
The word translated "generation" here is the Greek word [genea], which first denotes posterity (family), and then a specific or particular family timeline. As one might say "the previous generation," or "the next generation." I would be talking about a family era. It is from the Greek word [genos] literally meaning family or relative. For example as [genos] is used in 1st Peter

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

That means a God determined "family" or kinfolk chosen to be "children" of light. Indeed, called out of the family of darkness unto light. God is declaring that we are "now" of the family of Christ, just as the wicked are a generation or family of vipers...as indeed we once were the wicked or sinful generation (Mark 8:38). The wicked generation of family exists throughout time, and the blood from Abel to Christ will be required of it. Because it spans that time, even unto today.

Matthew 12:39

• "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"

The evil generation that Christ speaks of is not simply the people of the era when Christ walked the earth. It is any children of the family of evil. They are the sinful generation, the generation of evil that Christ referred to. And this is the same word [genea] used in Matthew 24. This generation or family of evil shall not pass until all be fulfilled. And true to His word, this generation hasn't passed and all is not yet fulfilled. These wicked children are still present in the world TODAY. It is that generation whom the beast will deceive and gather together to assault the camp of the saints. Then, and only then, will all be fulfilled. Then the evil generation, not the chosen generation, will end!

Spiritually, it is a family relationship. Just as we are the posterity of Christ (having been born of the Spirit of God), the wicked are the children of the Devil, having the spirit of disobedience (Ephesians 5:6-9). Two distinct and opposing families. We are either the children of light, or we are the children of darkness. There is no other alternative (Ephesians 5:8; 1st Thessalonians 5:5). And the children of wickedness are a generation or family unit. This can be proven quite easily:

Luke 16:8

• "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Christ is declaring that the family of the world is more prudent and wise in their interests and concerns of this life, than the family of the light are in their interests and concerns for the world to come. And we often see this as Christians not really concerned with any preparation for the hereafter, just their own talent hid away in the earth. Not very smart. Here again, this is the same word [genea]. The children of the family of darkness, are in their own way wiser than the children of the family of light "in that they prepared for "their" future. The word generation here means the posterity or family of the children.

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time period in this context. The well oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists like to claim it means, around a 30 year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable.

Unlike the generation of evil, the chosen generation will last FOREVER!

And I also like to add that the kingdom of God has been removed from Jersualem in judgment in AD 33 along with the death of Christ.

Matthew 21:43-45

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

The stone the builders rejected was not a physical stone in Jerusalem in AD 70. That stone was indeed already the head of the corner of the new congregation of God, the Holy Temple instituted at Pentecost. Thus when the Kingdom was taken from Old Testamnet congregation and given to the Church which is NOW a new testament congregation representing God's Kingdom. Jerusalem had no power by virtue of the scriptures that AD 70 held any prophetic standing. God had given that power of the word to the Church. Jerusalem had no standing as the Holy City, the Holy Temple or the Holy People on 70AD. It lost nothing in AD 70, it already lost it all in AD 33, and the power was in the hands of the New Testament Holy Temple, Holy City and Holy People who are the New Testament Israel of God. power had been transferred.

Acts 1:8

• "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

The word of power having been long ago given to the Church, the Two Witnesses, to start preaching the Gospel in 33AD. It did not start in 70AD or anything. Selah!

 

[Red Baker]

Greetings RB; glad that there is something that we can agree upon.

The context is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. An event of this significance would not possibly go unprophesied.

The destruction of Jerusalem encompassed both physical and spiritual realities, as I believe that I've shown, and with which I believe that you've agreed.

One reality would be meaningless without the other.

Go back to #152 and answer my post to you~a perfect opportunity to refute my position.

 

[Red Baker]

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

That means a God determined "family" or kinfolk chosen to be "children" of light. Indeed, called out of the family of darkness unto light. God is declaring that we are "now" of the family of Christ, just as the wicked are a generation or family of vipers...as indeed we once were the wicked or sinful generation (Mark 8:38). The wicked generation of family exists throughout time, and the blood from Abel to Christ will be required of it. Because it spans that time, even unto today.

Only by "nature"~but loved from eternity. Not so with the evil and wicked generation.

Ephesians 2:4,5~"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

Spiritually, it is a family relationship. Just as we are the posterity of Christ (having been born of the Spirit of God),

Actually, chosen in him before the foundation of the world, or, from eternity.

Ephesians 1:4,5~"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

This generation or family of evil shall not pass until all be fulfilled. And true to His word, this generation hasn't passed and all is not yet fulfilled. These wicked children are still present in the world TODAY. It is that generation whom the beast will deceive and gather together to assault the camp of the saints. Then, and only then, will all be fulfilled. Then the evil generation, not the chosen generation, will end!

Amen!

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time period in this context. The well oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists like to claim it means, around a 30 year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable.

Unlike the generation of evil, the chosen generation will last FOREVER!

Amen.

The stone the builders rejected was not a physical stone in Jerusalem in AD 70. That stone was indeed already the head of the corner of the new congregation of God, the Holy Temple instituted at Pentecost. Thus when the Kingdom was taken from Old Testament congregation and given to the Church which is NOW a new testament congregation representing God's Kingdom. Jerusalem had no power by virtue of the scriptures that AD 70 held any prophetic standing. God had given that power of the word to the Church. Jerusalem had no standing as the Holy City, the Holy Temple or the Holy People on 70AD. It lost nothing in AD 70, it already lost it all in AD 33, and the power was in the hands of the New Testament Holy Temple, Holy City and Holy People who are the New Testament Israel of God. power had been transferred.

This is a true witness according to the word of God. Amen!

 

[Red Baker]

Yes, I thought I recognized the doctrine you both espouse. I am very familiar with Tony's teaching, and have learned greatly from him. I've read and studied many in fact probably most of his articles, and I too find him to be a Godly man, teaching truth, but like you,

So have I. I'm glad to know you have learned much from him, and truly if honest, we all learn from each other certain truths more perfectly. Iron does indeed sharpens iron.

 

[rwb]

The wicked generation of family exists throughout time, and the blood from Abel to Christ will be required of it. Because it spans that time, even unto today.

So does the chosen generation.

The evil generation that Christ speaks of is not simply the people of the era when Christ walked the earth.

I agree, but the evil generation Christ was addressing were of the Jews, that are of Israel. They were not the beginning of the evil generation of mankind, nor are they the end. Just as with the chosen generation, whom Christ spoke directly to, they too have been and shall be found upon the earth from the beginning of creation to the end of days. Your doctrine is focused on the evil generation that shall not endure forever, where Christ is focused on the chosen generation that shall not pass until all things are fulfilled. IOW physical death shall not take them from the arms of our Lord.

Christ had spoken similarly before when He said, "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Mt 16:28) Or as Luke says, "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Lu 9:27) Christ knew they would not live to visibly see the second coming of Christ,, but some of them before they physically died would come to know and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God, which is the message of Christ throughout His ministry on this earth.

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time period in this context. The well oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists like to claim it means, around a 30 year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable.

Of course it doesn't! I have never said otherwise! It's also biblically unsupportable to push the prophesy into the far distant future, that is to date almost two thousand years.

Unlike the generation of evil, the chosen generation will last FOREVER!

Yes, they the chosen generation are "this generation" that shall not pass because death has lost its hold on them!

And I also like to add that the kingdom of God has been removed from Jersualem in judgment in AD 33 along with the death of Christ.

I've never argued otherwise!

 

[rwb]

So have I. I'm glad to know you have learned much from him, and truly if honest, we all learn from each other certain truths more perfectly. Iron does indeed sharpens iron.

I completely agree! But we also have to learn to study for ourselves and not follow doctrine that is not logical or makes no sense. After reading and studying Warren's articles on eschatology his understanding of "this generation" which aligns with what both you and TS have said, does not fit because the focus is on the second coming of Christ at the end of days. When the focus of the Discourse is not primarily the second coming, but rather that we must understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Because His Kingdom is not of this world, is not visibly seen except through eyes of faith, and is within you. Not simply within our midst, but through His Spirit the Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with is within whosoever hears the Gospel of the Kingdom of God proclaimed and through the power of His Spirit believes in Christ for everlasting life. It is by our understanding of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is built, which is why Christ repeatedly spoke of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God/Heaven and was not primarily focused on His coming again. The parable of the fig tree points us to the beginning of the building of the Church universal as the message of Christ coming in His Kingdom is preached unto all the world.

 

[Davidpt]

I've never said ungodly mankind shall pass away before the end of days! The focus of the Discourse is not on ungodly mankind, it is words spoken to the "chosen generation" of Christ from the first century AD to the end of days.


Neither have I said the saints of Christ need to perish when all these things are fulfilled!

Sometimes it is hard to follow what you are meaning since you apparently have this generation meaning both the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, whatever that is supposed to mean. Then you saying this generation, apparently meaning the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, shall not pass way until all is fulfilled, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Except the elect of Israel never passes away, that being my point. Thus why I asked why do you want the saved to pass away as well when it is only the ungodly that passes away with the earth when the earth passes away?

Obviously, we are not on the same page here and some of that might be my fault since I can't quite follow how you are interpreting this generation in the Discourse. It's making no sense to me. This generation that passes away has zero to do with the saved being part of this generation. Therefore, I don't know why you are including the saved as part of this generation that passes away once everything is fulfilled?

 

[rwb]

Sometimes it is hard to follow what you are meaning since you apparently have this generation meaning both the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, whatever that is supposed to mean. Then you saying this generation, apparently meaning the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, shall not pass way until all is fulfilled, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Let me try to make myself clearer then. "This generation" that Christ says shall not pass until all things are fulfilled, though living together on the same earth with an evil generation that shall also continue to be until the end of days, is the "chosen generation" that Christ wants His disciples to understand shall not pass because they abide with Christ forever! Not even death can take them from the Kingdom of God because the life they have through the Spirit of Christ in them is forever.

When Christ says, "this generation shall not pass" we should not understand that as though when these things are fulfilled, they would pass. The fact that they shall NEVER pass is so definite that the wording in the Greek is a double negative, as saying according to Strongs (G3364), not at all:—any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). That is not true of the evil generation that will not endure forever.

This generation that passes away has zero to do with the saved being part of this generation. Therefore, I don't know why you are including the saved apart of this generation that passes away once everything is fulfilled?

It's a mistake to read the words of Christ as though saying that when all is fulfilled "this generation" shall pass. That is reading into the words of Christ. Christ is giving His disciples assurance that all who enter the Kingdom of God when they are born again HAVE everlasting life and shall never pass.

 

[covenantee]

Go back to #152 and answer my post to you~a perfect opportunity to refute my position.

You hadn't replied specifically to me in #152.

For the definition of "generation" in Matthew 24, see #164.

As rwb has explained, the judgment and punishment described by Jesus was directed at unbelieving Israel.

The Christian believers fled and escaped.

The generation was the ensuing 40 years from the date of Jesus' discourse circa 30 AD, to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[Davidpt]

When Christ says, "this generation shall not pass" we should not understand that as though when these things are fulfilled, they would pass. The fact that they shall NEVER pass is so definite that the wording in the Greek is a double negative, as saying according to Strongs (G3364), not at all:—any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). That is not true of the evil generation that will not endure forever.


It's a mistake to read the words of Christ as though saying that when all is fulfilled "this generation" shall pass. That is reading into the words of Christ. Christ is giving His disciples assurance that all who enter the Kingdom of God when they are born again HAVE everlasting life and shall never pass.

How could it be a mistake? Let's look at the text again.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The text plainly says, that until all these things be fulfilled first, in the meantime this generation shall not pass away. What then is the only logical conclusion to arrive at once all these things are fulfilled? Is it not this? This generation passes away. In this verse there is a 'till' for a reason. Everybody should know what 'till' implies.

It would be like saying, this or that person shall not die, till their life has ended first. In the meantime, until their life has ended, they are not dead yet. But once their life has ended, this part is no longer true---this or that person shall not die. In like manner is how one should be reasoning Matthew 24:34 as well. And most do reason it in that manner, including Preterists, apparently. Don't know why you want to be in the minority here?

 

[rwb]

How could it be a mistake? Let's look at the text again.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The text plainly says, that until all these things be fulfilled first, in the meantime this generation shall not pass away. What then is the only logical conclusion to arrive at once all these things are fulfilled? Is it not this? This generation passes away. In this verse there is a 'till' for a reason. Everybody should know what 'till' implies.

It would be like saying, this or that person shall not die, till their life has ended first. In the meantime, until their life has ended, they are not dead yet. But once their life has ended, this part is no longer true---this or that person shall not die. In like manner is how one should be reasoning Matthew 24:34 as well. And most do reason it in that manner, including Preterists, apparently. Don't know why you want to be in the minority here?

You don't seem to understand that when we are in Christ not even death shall make the chosen generation pass! Death is simply a transitioning from this physical mortal body of death on this earth to a spiritual body alive in heaven. Christ does not say after all things are fulfilled THEN they shall pass! You're reading it into the verse.

 

[Red Baker]

You hadn't replied specifically to me in #152.

True, yet you also could reply to the post, since you and rwb are teaching the same doctrine concerning the meaning of this generation. I'm not saying that you both agree 100% between you two, but, you do defend each other, which is okay, but if the blind follow the blind, you know what the results of that is....both will fall into the ditch together.

For the definition of "generation" in Matthew 24, see #164.

I read your post already~problem is with "your desired" definition is this: you failed to realize that God's word will define the use of words the Spirit of God has chosen to use, by comparing scriptures with scriptures,; and most importantly, is staying with the context, and seeking our understanding from what is being said. Context is KING, it does deliver every time without fail! Thank you Lord Jesus that this is so.

As rwb has explained, the judgment and punishment described by Jesus was directed at unbelieving Israel.

I have one better than rwb....Jesus' very own words in Matthew 24,25; Mark 13; Luke 21; where he never mentioned unbelieving Jews, no, not once.

Luke 21:35,36~"For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

THe face of the whole earth, certainly does not limit Jesus' words to unbelieving Jews~it is wishful thinking on both of you, in order to support the heresy of 70 A.D. for you. rwb is even more confused on this generation as David pointed out, as I also mentioned above.

Sometimes it is hard to follow what you are meaning since you apparently have this generation meaning both the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, whatever that is supposed to mean. Then you saying this generation, apparently meaning the unbelieving Jews and the elect of Israel, shall not pass way until all is fulfilled, whatever that is supposed to mean.

You said:

The Christian believers fled and escaped.

Seriously that is a borderline oxymoron statement~no pun intended, I just want your attention.

If you take Roman's army already in the temple in Jerusalem and having that city surrounded do you truly think that they could escape unto the little hills that surround Jerusalem and be safe? That's almost laughable, even young minds without the Spirit of God would laugh at that belief...and they should.

But, if interpreted to way Jesus meant this words to be understood, then no problem.... when we see the churches in our days over flooded with false prophets and their deluded followers, then it is time to flee them lest be be like them and deny the very God we profess to love and believe in. Read 2nd Timothy 3:5, etc. I could say much more, but enough on this point for now.

The generation was the ensuing 40 years from the date of Jesus' discourse circa 30 AD, to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Again, it does not fit the context, not even close~even more so, totally unmentioned by Paul and the other apostles, which one would think would be a big part of their teachings, yet, not a word about the destruction of Israel in 70 A.D.

I'm not saying that it did not happen, all I'm saying is who cares? God was forever finished with them as a place of worship and his chosen people working only through them. They serve their eternal purpose until the time of the true biblical reformation~where now the very elect among the Jews and Gentiles make up the true tabernacle of David, where Jesus Christ shall eternally dwell in the midst of world without end. Selah

 

[covenantee]

I read your post already~problem is with "your desired" definition is this: you failed to realize that God's word will define the use of words the Spirit of God has chosen to use, by comparing scriptures with scriptures,; and most importantly, is staying with the context, and seeking our understanding from what is being said. Context is KING, it does deliver every time without fail! Thank you Lord Jesus that this is so.

The context which you espouse is strictly your own, as there is not one recognized historical orthodox Christian expositor who subscribes to it.

All recognize references relating to the destruction of Jerusalem in Jesus' discourse.

You haven't explained why the Judaean Christians fled (the Roman armies) and escaped (destruction). Matthew 24:15,16; Luke 21:20,21)

What to believe?

1. The interpretation of one
2. The united interpretation of many

No hint necessary.

 

[covenantee]

If you take Roman's army already in the temple in Jerusalem and having that city surrounded do you truly think that they could escape unto the little hills that surround Jerusalem and be safe? That's almost laughable, even young minds without the Spirit of God would laugh at that belief...and they should.

You're espousing your own historically vacuous hallucinations in order to attempt to justify your futurized fantasies and fallacies.

Who has said anything about "Roman's army already in the temple in Jerusalem"? Not I. That is classic dispensational delusion, and you're one of the gullible.

The Roman armies, under Cestius Gallus, were advancing upon Jerusalem, the holy city, in view of the Christians; when the armies briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape. Thankfully, the Christians weren't fantasy futurites.

The distance from Jerusalem to Pella is over 100 km, and the hills of Pella are substantial. Add geographical ignorance to your historical ignorance.

The laughs are on you.

 

[rwb]

You're espousing your own historically vacuous hallucinations in order to attempt to justify your futurized fantasies and fallacies.

Who has said anything about "Roman's" army already in the temple in Jerusalem"? Not I. That is classic dispensational delusion, and you're one of the gullible.

The Roman armies, under Cestius Gallus, were advancing upon Jerusalem, the holy city, in view of the Christians; when the armies briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape.

The distance from Jerusalem to Pella is over 100 km, and the hills of Pella are substantial. Add geographical ignorance to your historical ignorance.

The laughs are on you.

It seems the futurists view us as each other's clone. Yet their doctrine is almost verbatim that of Tony Warren @ Mountain Retreat. For several years now he has taught this doctrine regarding "this generation" as the generation of evil doers that both RB & TS are almost in complete lock step with. Like RB & TS Tony Warren believes he has arrived at greater spiritual wisdom, having far greater knowledge from the Holy Spirit of spiritual discernment than most other Christians.

 

[Davidpt]

You're espousing your own historically vacuous hallucinations in order to attempt to justify your futurized fantasies and fallacies.

Who has said anything about "Roman's army already in the temple in Jerusalem"? Not I. That is classic dispensational delusion, and you're one of the gullible.

The Roman armies, under Cestius Gallus, were advancing upon Jerusalem, the holy city, in view of the Christians; when the armies briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape. Thankfully, the Christians weren't fantasy futurites.

The distance from Jerusalem to Pella is over 100 km, and the hills of Pella are substantial. Add geographical ignorance to your historical ignorance.

The laughs are on you.

Obviously, Luke 21:20 is pertaining to the events involving 70 AD, regardless that some in this thread disagree. But is Matthew 24:15 also referring to these same events? I don't see how, especially based on what you just submitted then comparing that to what Matthew 24:15 records.

You said this---"The Roman armies, under Cestius Gallus, were advancing upon Jerusalem, the holy city, in view of the Christians; when the armies briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape"

This is what Matthew 24:15-16 records.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Explain how this-- When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, stand in the holy place---equals this---"The Roman armies, under Cestius Gallus, were advancing upon Jerusalem, the holy city, in view of the Christians; when the armies briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape"

Per your interpretation what do you take the holy place to mean? The 2nd temple before it was destroyed? If yes, if the armies were only advancing upon Jerusalem at the time, then briefly withdrew for an interval sufficient to permit the Christians to flee to Pella and escape, and that Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 that when you see the AOD, stand in the holy place, that is when you are to flee to the mountains, does that mean Jesus was trying to confuse ppl back then?

Or does this mean Jesus was giving everyone two opportunities to flee here. Don't heed His warning the first time around(meaning what He said in Luke 21:20-21), no big deal, nothing to lose sleep over, you still have one more opportunity to flee at a later time(meaning what He said in Matthew 24:15-16).

Or instead of any of those scenarios, it seems more reasonable to take these accounts to be involving different events, different eras of time. IOW, The former is meaning literally, the latter is meaning spiritually, pertaining to the final days of this age involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for one..