Millennialism proven by that man of sin

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Davy

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That is the brightness of His coming, when His face shines as the sun in his strength, and is called as lightning shining by Jesus.

The consumption of flesh does not include bones. In 2 Peter 3, all elements of all this creation will be melted, including the earth and the bones therein.
Sorry, I don't see any requirement of 'bones' being melted, so that kind of argument is moot. In 2 Peter 3:10 the word "elements" is not about earth material matter, so misunderstanding that word is a common error among men's doctrines.

The subject of 2 Peter 3 is about the destructions of the earth's surface that God had done in order to end a specific world earth age. In the past, God used waters of a flood. For this last time, He will simply use His consuming fire to end this present world earth age. So that must be kept in perspective with that "day of the Lord" time.


True. I'm rethinking that Rev 20:9 is the fire that consumes all elements of this heaven and earth. It says specially that only Gog and Magog surrounding the beloved city are devoured.
But that's not in keeping with the Scriptures. Revelation 6 and 16 (6th Seal, 7th Vial) both show all the islands and mountains moved on the "day of the Lord" (last day of this world). So that... is when this present world earth age is ended on that "day of the Lord". It's easy to get confused about it, because the idea of the heavens rolling up like a scroll is actually about that 'other' dimension being revealed to all once this flesh world is cast off suddenly at an instant.

Notice that the wicked upon whom God's Wrath is getting ready to be poured upon per the 6th Seal, that they SEE The Father sitting on His Throne at that point. That is not about Lord Jesus sitting on that throne. It means they can see into the Heavenly dimension at that point. It means veil of this flesh world is cast off by that point, and the Heavenly is revealed for those upon the earth.

We are actually shown this also in Revelation 1 when it is said that 'every eye' will see Jesus coming in the clouds, even those who pierced Him. Many just don't stop and think about that, and only assume it's just about Christ's coming, and no other additional detail with it. It's about the Heavenly dimension being opened up to those on earth.

2 Kings 6:15-17
15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?"
16
And he answered, "Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see." And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
KJV

There's another dimension of existence per The Word of God.
 

robert derrick

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Satan is bound "Specifically" from "Deceiving The Nations To Battle" as you have been clearly shown
True. During Jesus' earthly reign with His saints.

You distract in diversion from this fact with a suggestion of Satan "Tempting Man"
There is no suggestion that Satan tempts man. He does. That's why he's called the 'tempter'.


Scripture clearly states Satan is bound from "Deceive The Nations not "Temp The Nations" as you "Falsely Claim"
Tempting is deceit, first to sin, and also to believe false doctrine.

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Those many are wrong, and I've never heard of them, except from anti-millennialists.

Satan cannot possibly be shut up from earth, because he is still speaking directly to the minds of them he is tempting to sin and believe a lie and be damned.

There will still be evil-doing during Christ's reign of righteous judgment over all the earth. They will not be allowed to make national nor civil war, and execution of their sentences will not be unrighteousness delayed.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle
The end of the present tribulation and wrath of the devil and man against the saints, will end at coming of the Lord and resurrection into the air.

The devil with then deceive the northern nations into gathering at Armageddon, to make war with the Lamb and His armies, that are seen in the air.

There will be no mercy for them, because someone that stupid does not deserve any quarter.

After the Lord's thousand year reign, then Satan will be loosed a little and deceive all nations of the earth one last time, to make war with God and His saints.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event
Similar, but not the same event. The northern Gog will gather at Armageddon, and then a thousand years later, Gog and Magog from all corners of the earth will gather.

Both times they are deceive by Satan into their folly. The first time will be with help of his last false christ and prophet. The last time, he will do it all himself spiritually, without beast nor prophet.
 

robert derrick

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Sorry, I don't see any requirement of 'bones' being melted, so that kind of argument is moot.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Elements is all natural things in and on the earth.

Only the flesh is burned away by the brightness of the Lord's coming again to earth: it's the brightness of lightning flash.


In 2 Peter 3:10 the word "elements" is not about earth material matter, so misunderstanding that word is a common error among men's doctrines.
No, elements is not just about terrestrial things, but also of the celestial stars:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Paul obviously speaks of the elements and rudiments of this sinful world. Peter is obviously speaking of the elements of this heaven and earth.
The subject of 2 Peter 3 is about the destructions of the earth's surface that God had done in order to end a specific world earth age.
True. At the end of His reign on earth, man will once again try to rule the earth, and they will be devoured with fire of God from heaven.

The first end of sinful man's rule on earth, will be with the Lord's return to rule all earth Himself.


In the past, God used waters of a flood.
Sinful man did not cease to rule on earth after the flood.

There are three ages on this earth: the age of righteous man ruling over all the earth, which Adam through away for sin.

The present age of sinful man ruling on the earth.

The last age when the man Jesus Christ rules over all this earth for a thousand years.

The last time of man trying to rule again will be no age at all, because they will all fail.

For this last time, He will simply use His consuming fire to end this present world earth age.
True. When the thousand years of His earthly reign expires.

So that must be kept in perspective with that "day of the Lord" time.
And so, you reject Peter confirming the notable day of the Lord from Joel, is fulfilled in Jesus Christ first coming in the flesh?

You are swaying that great and notable day of the Lord does not refer to Jesus' life, death, burial, and resurrection?

But that's not in keeping with the Scriptures. Revelation 6 and 16 (6th Seal, 7th Vial) both show all the islands and mountains moved on the "day of the Lord" (last day of this world).
They will be moved out of place at His return to reign over the earth, especially Olivet that is cleaved in two.

They will be melted a little over a thousand years later, when fire of God melts all elements of heaven and earth.


So that... is when this present world earth age is ended on that "day of the Lord". It's easy to get confused about it, because the idea of the heavens rolling up like a scroll is actually about that 'other' dimension being revealed to all once this flesh world is cast off suddenly at an instant.
This is not after fire from God comes down to earth, and the earth and heaven flee from His face, and have no more place with Him.

Celestial stars do not 'fall'. They can flee, but there is no 'falling' among stars.


Notice that the wicked upon whom God's Wrath is getting ready to be poured upon per the 6th Seal, that they SEE The Father sitting on His Throne at that point.

I don't see anyone seeing the Father nor His throne in Rev 6. They however do know it is the Lamb coming with wrath. And they are hiding from in holes of caves and rocks, that are not melted by fire of God at that time.

The King will then sit in Jerusalem on the throne of His glorious kingdom over all the earth.

It means veil of this flesh world is cast off by that point, and the Heavenly is revealed for those upon the earth.
The heaven departing as a scroll is something to consider, but it's not taking the veil of flesh away from the eyes of men, and 'seeing' the spiritual kingdom of God, which cannot be seen with natural eyes.

The correct decieved veil of ruling our own lives as kings and as gods of heaven in our own right, is more likely.

We are actually shown this also in Revelation 1 when it is said that 'every eye' will see Jesus coming in the clouds, even those who pierced Him. Many just don't stop and think about that, and only assume it's just about Christ's coming, and no other additional detail with it. It's about the Heavenly dimension being opened up to those on earth.
No, it's the Lord coming brightly with saints and clouds in the air. All eyes of natural men on earth, will see and know Jesus Christ is the Lord.

Everyone sinning against God, after His coming in the flesh, is piercing the side of the Lamb of God.

The world will see them in the air, and the seducing spirits will even deceive them from the north, to cross the Euphrates to make war with them at Armageddon.

They will be just as blinded with rage and wrath, as Pharaoh driving his army into the dry sea bed, with waves standing on either side.


2 Kings 6:15-17
15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?"
16
And he answered, "Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see." And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
KJV

There's another dimension of existence per The Word of God.
It's called the spiritual kingdom of God and His throne, that is not in this cosmos, nor of this world, but is the Light shining around all creation looking in.

The dark sky at night with stars shining, are as holes made in a dark cover, with Light shining in from all around the heaven and earth.

Neither God nor His throne nor His spiritual kingdom, can be seen with eyes of flesh.

Only the saints can see Jesus and His spiritual kingdom dwelling within them, while still in mortal bodies on earth.
 
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ewq1938

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If this is the fire that melts the elements of the heaven and earth, then neither the Lord nor the righteous are still anywhere in it.


The fire only kills the army surrounding the city. The camp of the saints is there, so the saints are there which means Christ is also there. It's post-second coming.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

Davy

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But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Elements is all natural things in and on the earth.
No, the word "elements" is the Greek word stoicheion (NT:4747) which means an orderly arrangement, a rudiment or principle. It is not a word about earthly matter.

NT:4747
stoicheion (stoy-khi'-on); neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of NT:4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):

KJV - element, principle, rudiment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Only the flesh is burned away by the brightness of the Lord's coming again to earth: it's the brightness of lightning flash.
Man's works. The lightning example He gave for His coming is in the sense of every eye seeing His coming, just as many would see lightning flash in the sky from east to west.

You haven't provided any Scripture evidence to back up what you're saying. So most of your post is just moot, and useless.
 

Truth7t7

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No, the word "elements" is the Greek word stoicheion (NT:4747) which means an orderly arrangement, a rudiment or principle. It is not a word about earthly matter.

NT:4747
stoicheion (stoy-khi'-on); neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of NT:4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):

KJV - element, principle, rudiment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)



Man's works. The lightning example He gave for His coming is in the sense of every eye seeing His coming, just as many would see lightning flash in the sky from east to west.

You haven't provided any Scripture evidence to back up what you're saying. So most of your post is just moot, and useless.

Lexicon :: Strong's G4747 - stoicheion

στοιχεῖον​

Transliteration

stoicheion (Key)
Pronunciation

stoy-khi'-on
LISTEN
Part of Speech

neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From a presumed derivative of the base of στοιχέω (G4748)
Greek Inflections of στοιχεῖον
Dictionary Aids

Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 7:670,1087
Strong's Info

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal
    1. the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds
    2. the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe
    3. the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside
    4. the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline
      1. i.e. of mathematics, Euclid's geometry
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Good distinction.

And since that fire of God is sent by Jesus from heaven, then the Lord cannot be in the air watching it, as some of your fellow teachers say.
Why not? He can be in the air and call fire down from heaven. Why do you not find that to be possible?

His second coming is 1 Thess 4, and 2 Thess 2. His sending fire on earth at the end of His reign is 2 Peter 3.
2 Peter 3 is about His second coming. That is established in verses 3 and 4 where Peter talks about scoffers in the last days scoffing at the promise of His second coming. Peter indicated in verse 13 that we should be looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming, but you look forward to a temporary earthly kingdom instead.

The destruction is for the unwatchful Christians, that will not be in the resurrection of the church, to meet Him in the air.
First of all, they can't be Christians if God's wrath is coming down on them. Just another example of your ignorance. Also, you didn't address my point. I asked why Paul and Peter would both warn their readers about living godly lives and being careful to avoid the destruction they described as coming in the day of the Lord if their readers couldn't possibly even be alive at that time? In your view that destruction won't even come until 1,000+ years after Christ returns, so how could that potentially affect their readers at all?

You're not acknowledging that the day of the Lord is simply a reference to the day Christ returns and it will be accompanied by global destruction. That is what both Paul and Peter clearly indicated. And that lines up with what Jesus Himself taught in passages like Matthew 24:35-39 as well.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Once again. I don't think it is possible for you to accurately report what others say. Whether on purpose, or simple blindness to anything you don't agree with.
I went by what you said, so maybe you should be more careful about what you're saying instead of trying to blame me for supposedly not understanding what you said accurately.

It only applies to all them gathered for war at Armageddon, and none of them are believers, but unlike other unbelievers on earth, are active enemies that hate the Lord and His saints.
You are making up a category of people that is not taught in scripture. Instead, scripture indicates that those who are not with Jesus are against Him (Matthew 12:30). So, everyone is either with Him or against Him. There is no third group of people like you imagine. Also, Armageddon isn't a physical place on earth just like mystery Babylon and Magog (referenced in Rev 20:8) are not physical places.

And so, you show how to make an event symbolic, because there are symbolic tools used in it.
Again, a real event can be described symbolically. Just because something is described symbolically doesn't mean it's describing something that won't even happen.

You also make fun of Scripture revealing the event, by picturing Jesus running around with a sword sticking out of His mouth.
No, I make fun of people like you taking that literally.

Of course all the fowls on earth will be gathered into one place, to eat all the slain armies at Armageddon.
So, do you believe that Jesus will be slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth then? If that is symbolic, then why take the rest literally? There will be literal, physical destruction when He comes, but it is not described literally in Revelation 19:11-21. It's described literally in passages like 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Who doubts the Lord can do that? That's very easy for Him to do, that made the sun stand still at the word of a man, and the Red Sea to part with a man raising a staff.
LOL. This isn't about doubting what the Lord can do. Everyone here knows that He can do anything and you know that. But, just because He could destroy people with a sword coming out of His mouth if He wanted to, doesn't mean it's reasonable to think He will actually do that. It's clearly symbolic. You seem to have something against symbolism. As if something being described symbolically means that it's not describing a real event. That is not the case. You believe the beast is a symbolic entity, right? But, it represents something real, right? Well, there you go. The sword is symbolic, but it represents real destruction coming upon Christ's enemies. The destruction itself will be by fire.

He could do that while a man on earth, where even the winds and waves obeyed Him.

You see, you do make fables, when you do make real events into symbol only.
No, I do not. You can't refute anything I'm saying, so all you can do is resort to misrepresenting my beliefs. It's all you have. Everyone can see that. I have made it clear repeatedly that I believe the symbols symbolize real events. But, you try to make it as if I don't. So, you are blatantly lying about what I believe. Are you that desperate to win an argument that you think it's okay to resort to lying?

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Obviously since the days of Peter, symbolizers have been make fables out of the powerful coming of the Lord, as well as making fun of the details.
Once again, I believe that His coming will be powerful and will result in the literal destruction of the entire surface of the earth by fire. How is that a case of making a fable out of the powerful coming of the Lord? It's not.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

When real events of prophecy are made into symbol only, then nothing is sure about prophecy of Scripture, since it all can be made into mere symbolic fables, that have nothing to do with real events on earth.
I'm not making real events of prophecy into symbol only. That is your false representation of my beliefs. I have made it very clear that I believe the symbols are symbolizing real events, so you are just blatantly lying about what I believe. For what? Do you think lying helps your case at all? It only makes you look like...a liar. Who can trust a liar? No one.

Saying the Lord's coming reign on earth is symbol only, is exactly the same as saying the sun standing still, and the Red Sea parting, was symbol only: words of physical meaning were used all three times.

Teaching spiritual truths of Scripture, is no license for symbolizing Scripture away from revealed events on earth.
You are once again falsely representing my beliefs. I don't believe He will reign on the earth in the future, I believe He will reign now. So, how could I be turning something I don't even believe in into symbol only? That's nonsense. I believe He is reigning now and it's real. I just have a different understanding of His reign than you do. But, I do not just make it into symbol only as you falsely accuse.
 
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robert derrick

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No, the word "elements" is the Greek word stoicheion (NT:4747) which means an orderly arrangement, a rudiment or principle. It is not a word about earthly matter.
As with most ancient languages, the Greek use of words to describe the natural world, are later used figuratively and philosophically.

God does the same with words He chooses for Scripture.

The unbelievers interested in Biblical principles disavow the natural and miraculous events revealed in Scripture, and many Christians seem to think the natural events don't matter, or it's necessary to also disavow them as fables only, in order to be spiritual.

It's much like those who claim a spiritual righteousness by faith alone, while denying the need for also doing righteousness bodily, in order to be justified by Christ.

Man's works. The lightning example He gave for His coming is in the sense of every eye seeing His coming, just as many would see lightning flash in the sky from east to west.

Man's flesh and eye balls.
You haven't provided any Scripture evidence to back up what you're saying. So most of your post is just moot, and useless.
I've given the Scriptures and my plain reading of them. You just disagree and prefer your own reading.

You have however given me a correction worth changing for. It did not do away with my teaching, but it did serve to perfect part of my teaching, which is about the one continuous day of the Lord on earth:

The day of the Lord begins with the Lord Jesus Christ coming to earth in the flesh, is on earth by the Spirit, will appear a second time in sight of all men and reign on earth for a thousand years, and finally the day of the Lord will end with the fire of God, burning up the elements of old earth and heaven.

Thanks
 
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Timtofly

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Why not? He can be in the air and call fire down from heaven. Why do you not find that to be possible?


2 Peter 3 is about His second coming. That is established in verses 3 and 4 where Peter talks about scoffers in the last days scoffing at the promise of His second coming. Peter indicated in verse 13 that we should be looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming, but you look forward to a temporary earthly kingdom instead.


First of all, they can't be Christians if God's wrath is coming down on them. Just another example of your ignorance. Also, you didn't address my point. I asked why Paul and Peter would both warn their readers about living godly lives and being careful to avoid the destruction they described as coming in the day of the Lord if their readers couldn't possibly even be alive at that time? In your view that destruction won't even come until 1,000+ years after Christ returns, so how could that potentially affect their readers at all?

You're not acknowledging that the day of the Lord is simply a reference to the day Christ returns and it will be accompanied by global destruction. That is what both Paul and Peter clearly indicated. And that lines up with what Jesus Himself taught in passages like Matthew 24:35-39 as well.
The camp of the saints are those reigning with Christ the King, the Lamb, yes.

Neither Revelation 19, Armageddon, nor Revelation 20, Gog/Magog have the same battle scenario.

One is the Lamb meeting the Kings of the earth from heaven. Unless He is on earth.


One is the King on the throne being threatened by Gog Magog. God is protecting His Sons rule on earth.

Jesus is not on earth in Revelation 19. Jesus is not in heaven in Revelation 20.

In Revelation 19 the Kings are defending earth from a heavenly attack. In Revelation 20, heaven is pre-emptive against an army from all over earth.

In Revelation 19 Jesus comes to earth. In Revelation 20, Jesus is ruling on the earth, when His subjects mount a huge protest.

This verse does not say Jesus calls down fire from heaven:

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Is Jesus God in this verse? Do you not distinguish between God and the Lamb?

There is no burning up of the world, nor the camp of the saints, singular. You have that all wrong.
 
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Davy

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As with most ancient languages, the Greek use of words to describe the natural world, are later used figuratively and philosophically.

God does the same with words He chooses for Scripture.
Afraid not. The Hebrew and Greek languages are more accurate than our English, even having more words to describe a thing than English, so trying to create an excuse so as to bring in man's philosophy, like you're trying to do, is a rubbish idea.
 

robert derrick

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Why not? He can be in the air and call fire down from heaven. Why do you not find that to be possible?
True. Of course he could. Just not at His second appearing on earth in the air.

That sounds more like the false christ and second beast that appears before men, and then causes fire to come down out of heaven in their sight.

The brightness of His coming is as lightning flash over the earth, not fire of God upon the earth.
First of all, they can't be Christians if God's wrath is coming down on them. Just another example of your ignorance. Also, you didn't address my point. I asked why Paul and Peter would both warn their readers about living godly lives and being careful to avoid the destruction they described as coming in the day of the Lord if their readers couldn't possibly even be alive at that time? In your view that destruction won't even come until 1,000+ years after Christ returns, so how could that potentially affect their readers at all?
His second appearing may not affect us at all, if we die in Christ beforehand.

Referring to fire of God burning up all elements of heaven and earth, is pretty persuasive to repent and walk worthily of Him.


You're not acknowledging that the day of the Lord is simply a reference to the day Christ returns
The day of the Lord is with both His appearings on earth, and is now with His Spirit dwelling in believers on earth.

The Lord has not left nor forsaken the earth, and so He is not returning to earth. No Scripture of apostles speak of His returning, nor of His second coming, as though He has left after being made flesh on earth.

He sits on the right hand of God with resurrected body, and He is dwelling in children of God with His quickening Spirit.

and it will be accompanied by global destruction.
Your take. Not mine.
 

robert derrick

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Again, a real event can be described symbolically. Just because something is described symbolically doesn't mean it's describing something that won't even happen.
True.

So, do you believe that Jesus will be slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth then?
Mockery


If that is symbolic, then why take the rest literally?
As you said, symbols used in an event, doesn't make the event itself only symbolic.


There will be literal, physical destruction when He comes, but it is not described literally in Revelation 19:11-21. It's described literally in passages like 2 Peter 3:10-12.
Pick and choose what you like.

LOL. This isn't about doubting what the Lord can do. Everyone here knows that He can do anything and you know that. But, just because He could destroy people with a sword coming out of His mouth if He wanted to, doesn't mean it's reasonable to think He will actually do that. It's clearly symbolic.
No problem there.

You seem to have something against symbolism.
No one can be against any symbolism in Scripture, because there is plenty of obvious symbolism, allegory, and parables.

I am against fanatic symboling to do away with events and teachings not like or wanted. That's when the Bible is made fables only in natural terms, while there is still good principle taught.

Many open unbelievers in history have done so with the Bible. They seek good principles to live by, while discount all natural events as symbolic learning lessons only.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Both Peter and John were eyewitnesses of the majesty of Christ, first on the mount, and then coming down to earth.

The sword is symbolic, but it represents real destruction coming upon Christ's enemies. The destruction itself will be by fire.
Scripture plainly says the word of God is a two-edged sword.

Prophecy can be as fire in our bones, but not fire of God come down on earth.


No, I do not. You can't refute anything I'm saying, so all you can do is resort to misrepresenting my beliefs. It's all you have. Everyone can see that. I have made it clear repeatedly that I believe the symbols symbolize real events.
Yes,I see what you mean now. Your interpretation of the symbol sword is wrong. It's based on your doctrine, not upon Scripture.


Once again, I believe that His coming will be powerful
Obviously true.

and will result in the literal destruction of the entire surface of the earth by fire.
Not true. That is at the end of His thousand years on earth.

At the beginning of His earthly reign, it will be much more limited and precise.

You are once again falsely representing my beliefs. I don't believe He will reign on the earth in the future,
I know your belief and unbelief, by what you say. I take you as literally as Scripture.

I believe He will reign now. So, how could I be turning something I don't even believe in into symbol only?
By making it symbol only.


That's nonsense. I believe He is reigning now and it's real.I just have a different understanding of His reign than you do.
No you don't. I have stated several times the spiritual resurrection and reigning of Christ on earth in His saints today.

You obviously think you're the only one that is 'revealed' to.

The mystery is why you must reject His future earthly reign, just so you can believe in Spiritual reigning today.

I believe both one today and the second tomorrow, even as with His first appearing on earth for today, and His second appearing on earth for tomorrow.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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His second appearing may not affect us at all, if we die in Christ beforehand.

Referring to fire of God burning up all elements of heaven and earth, is pretty persuasive to repent and walk worthily of Him.
I wasn't saying it will affect us all. I'm saying that it always has the potential to affect any of Peter and Paul's readers if it happens in their lifetimes. But, if the destruction they describe as coming like a thief in the night won't even come until 1,000+ years after Christ returns, then it wouldn't be true that it can potentially affect their readers because they were warning their readers about being spiritually alert before He returns.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It was a sincere question. I honestly don't know if you believe that the sword coming out of Jesus's mouth is literal or not. If you take the birds eating people's flesh literally, then it seems that you might take all of it literally, including the description of Jesus killing His enemies with a sword that comes out of His mouth.

As you said, symbols used in an event, doesn't make the event itself only symbolic.
Well, I'm glad we can agree on that, at least. But what I'm saying about Revelation 19:11-21 is that it's talking about a real event (Christ's second coming) that will bring about real destruction, but that destruction is described symbolically there. Whereas in a passage like 2 Peter 3:10-12 that refers to the same event (His second coming), it is described literally.

No one can be against any symbolism in Scripture, because there is plenty of obvious symbolism, allegory, and parables.

I am against fanatic symboling to do away with events and teachings not like or wanted. That's when the Bible is made fables only in natural terms, while there is still good principle taught.
That isn't what I'm doing. I think you are kind of paranoid about that. You seem to think that if anyone symbolizes things more than you do, then they are just symbolizing everything away. But, that is not what I'm doing.

Many open unbelievers in history have done so with the Bible.
You think I don't know that? What does that have to do with me, though? Nothing.

Yes,I see what you mean now. Your interpretation of the symbol sword is wrong. It's based on your doctrine, not upon Scripture.
What do you think is the correct interpretation then? That it's a literal sword?

By making it symbol only.
There's nothing wrong with something being described with all symbols as long as it's understood that it's describing a real event symbolically rather than acting as if it's nothing more than symbols.

No you don't. I have stated several times the spiritual resurrection and reigning of Christ on earth in His saints today.

You obviously think you're the only one that is 'revealed' to.
LOL. You obviously are given to hyperbole and exaggeration. I claimed no such thing. But, most Premils don't acknowledge His current reign. So, excuse me for not realizing that you don't deny it. Why you can discern that, but still insist on Him having a future reign on earth is beyond me. Scripture says that He will deliver His kingdom to the Father when He comes at the end of the age (Matt 13:40-43, 1 Cor 15:22-24).

The mystery is why you must reject His future earthly reign, just so you can believe in Spiritual reigning today.
I reject that belief because it's not taught in scripture and contradicts a great deal of scripture. Simple as that.

I believe both one today and the second tomorrow, even as with His first appearing on earth for today, and His second appearing on earth for tomorrow.
He will hand the kingdom over to the Father after He comes again and they will reign together on the new earth for eternity.
 

RLT63

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These verses align with Satan's little season. It is becoming clear, you not only have an ignorance of the symbolic emphasis of Revelation, but you also have no understanding of Amil. I would suggest you take a month out to study Amil before trying to refute it. This should could out the continuous misunderstandings.

Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
Does imprisonment mean immobility?
Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?
Do you believe Satan has 7 literal heads and 7 literal necks (Revelation 12:3)?
Do you believe Satan has 10 literal horns poking out of his 7 literal heads (Revelation 12:3)?
Well if Satan is chained his chain is too long. Just turn on your TV and see for yourself.
 

WPM

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Well if Satan is chained his chain is too long. Just turn on your TV and see for yourself.

Satan can only hurt those who get close to him.
 

WPM

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Like Job? How was Job close to Satan? Or was that before he was chained?

God is sovereign. There are restraints upon the devil. He can only do what God allows him to do. Today Christ reigns over all His enemies. He calls the shots; He causes and permits according to His infinite wisdom.
 

RLT63

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God is sovereign. There are restraints upon the devil. He can only do what God allows him to do. Today Christ reigns over all His enemies. He calls the shots; He causes and permits according to His infinite wisdom.
That’s not the same as being chained for 1,000 years