Miracles and certain spiritual gifts

[Paul Christensen]

I would simple say:
Specific Miracles such as Tongues, healing the blind, etc. are not the extent of Gods Miracles in a person's Life.
I see the mention of Scriptural Miracles as Examples of "Possibilities", that can AND have occurred in many people's lives Long after Jesus ascended.

Of course everyday Miracles do not Become entered into Scriptural Text...but I do believe we get blips...a child under water 30 minutes, but not drowned...;a cancer patient in dire straights, with all cancer and damage gone...;brain activity dead...then resumes; building fires killing several...and yet one survives out of the fire, smoke...unharmed from the fire, smoke or debris.

The list goes on and on; Incidents people attribute to Miracles of God... and personally I lean to agree with their convictions.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well, with much of the church still in bondage to formalism and ceremony instead of the free ministry of the Holy Spirit, and great areas of the Charismatic movement invaded with the occult and pagan mind-control, it is not surprising that we don't see much of God's miracle working power in our midst.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Again Enoch...says you...you cannot tell a person who can see clearly that they are blind, and expect them to believe it.

But then, why argue, its not worth it... " A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. "

You're welcome.

He is, like other Cessationists, deceived by a lying spirit quoting half-verses out of context.

 

[Timtofly]

It is just not sin, or outright rebellion. It is in fact doctrine, theology, and human understanding that take us away from God's Word. The Holy Spirit does not work apart from the Word of God.

That is why a lot of charismatic spirit is not of God. If God’s Word is buried under a pile of human understanding, then Satan is at work in the form of "godliness"; still not of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

which you cannot Quote, yeh. For a really good reason, imo, which is why you are likely right, it is not debatable at all; you have just been deceived too, like the rest of us

When Christ returns... never noticed before until today what Jesus told Peter when Satan wanted to sift Peter as wheat...one version says “when you are converted” another “when once you have turned again strengthen your brethren.”

Luke 22:32 Lexicon: but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

 

[Enoch111]

To say that the gifts ceased at the end of the Apostolic age because God intended them to cease is adding to Scripture and could result in a rebuke directly from God and exposure as a liar.

No one has said that "the gifts" meaning "all the gifts" have ceased.

And since you are so fired up about ALL the gifts being operational, the burden of proof is now on you to provide us all with a list of genuine APOSTLES AND PROPHETS operating today (particularly in your church), as well as evidence that what they have said can actually be added to Scripture, and is something OVER AND ABOVE what is already in the Bible.

Paul said that three SPECIFIC gifts would cease, and church history PROVES that they ceased. As to signs, wonders, and miracles, if they were operational, they would operate in EVERY CHURCH. Not outside the churches. So once again the burden of proof is for you to provide a list of these in your own church, and give us specifics for their miracles with dates.

Chances are you will be proved to be the liar, when you cannot come up with solid evidence.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is just not sin, or outright rebellion. It is in fact doctrine, theology, and human understanding that take us away from God's Word. The Holy Spirit does not work apart from the Word of God.

That is why a lot of charismatic spirit is not of God. If God’s Word is buried under a pile of human understanding, then Satan is at work in the form of "godliness"; still not of God.

You can't say that here. I said that the Charismatic movement has been invaded with occult and pagan mind-control, which is true; but to save that the movement and its spirit is not of God is not and is against this forum's rules.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No one has said that "the gifts" meaning "all the gifts" have ceased.

And since you are so fired up about ALL the gifts being operational, the burden of proof is now on you to provide us all with a list of genuine APOSTLES AND PROPHETS operating today (particularly in your church), as well as evidence that what they have said can actually be added to Scripture, and is something OVER AND ABOVE what is already in the Bible.

Paul said that three SPECIFIC gifts would cease, and church history PROVES that they ceased. As to signs, wonders, and miracles, if they were operational, they would operate in EVERY CHURCH. Not outside the churches. So once again the burden of proof is for you to provide a list of these in your own church, and give us specifics for their miracles with dates.

Chances are you will be proved to be the liar, when you cannot come up with solid evidence.

We don't have to prove anything to you at all. You are making doctrinal statements about tongues and prophecy without any scriptural support. I assert that you are deceived by a lying spirit and you are quite free to prove me wrong.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No one has said that "the gifts" meaning "all the gifts" have ceased.

And since you are so fired up about ALL the gifts being operational, the burden of proof is now on you to provide us all with a list of genuine APOSTLES AND PROPHETS operating today (particularly in your church), as well as evidence that what they have said can actually be added to Scripture, and is something OVER AND ABOVE what is already in the Bible.

Paul said that three SPECIFIC gifts would cease, and church history PROVES that they ceased. As to signs, wonders, and miracles, if they were operational, they would operate in EVERY CHURCH. Not outside the churches. So once again the burden of proof is for you to provide a list of these in your own church, and give us specifics for their miracles with dates.

Chances are you will be proved to be the liar, when you cannot come up with solid evidence.

By the way, I am referring solely to your Cessationist belief, and not any negative reflection on your genuine Christian faith - because your other doctrinal posts are fully supported by Scripture, and I have supported your posts when you have posting sound doctrine. I love John MacArthur's and Justin Peters' Bible teaching, and most of their comments about the Word of Faith movement, but I don't agree with their Cessationist views because they are reading into 1 Corinthians 13 and 14 what is not there, and ignoring what is literally written in 1 Corinthians 14 about tongues and prophecy.

If they are supporting Genesis 1-3 as literal text not needing further interpretation, then they are being inconsistent in their interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 instead of just comprehending the literal text and accepting what Paul actually said, and clearly implied in it.

 

[Waiting on him]

When? Didn't Jesus say not to listen to people who say He has come already, and here He is, and there He is, and He is out in the desert? So I can safely ignore your post, on the instructions of Jesus.

1 John 4:2-3 KJV
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Waiting on him]

You guys are really good at parroting what you've heard.

 

[Timtofly]

You can't say that here. I said that the Charismatic movement has been invaded with occult and pagan mind-control, which is true; but to save that the movement and its spirit is not of God is not and is against this forum's rules.

I did not mention any group of people nor belief. Charismatic: exercising a compelling charm which inspires devotion in others. Spirit:the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. If there is a trade mark on these words, my apologies.

 

[Timtofly]

By the way, I am referring solely to your Cessationist belief, and not any negative reflection on your genuine Christian faith - because your other doctrinal posts are fully supported by Scripture, and I have supported your posts when you have posting sound doctrine. I love John MacArthur's and Justin Peters' Bible teaching, and most of their comments about the Word of Faith movement, but I don't agree with their Cessationist views because they are reading into 1 Corinthians 13 and 14 what is not there, and ignoring what is literally written in 1 Corinthians 14 about tongues and prophecy.

If they are supporting Genesis 1-3 as literal text not needing further interpretation, then they are being inconsistent in their interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 instead of just comprehending the literal text and accepting what Paul actually said, and clearly implied in it.

If you think prophecy in chapter 14 is a reason chapter 13 is wrong, you may want to rethink your position. Those whose prophecy and it does not happen, should be stoned by the church. So the issue is, if it happens too often there are not any propheciars left, or prophecy is just in vain. When a brother points out your prophecy goes against the Word of God, do you get offended at God's Word, or the brother who was trying to help you. See, there is a lot of burden that goes with prophecy. Just going with, "thus saith the Lord" and repeating Bible verses, that others can plainly see without interpretation is better than "stuff" that cannot be verified and perhaps not ever. That only gets the false prophet off the hook cause they are already dead.

 

[Paul Christensen]

1 John 4:2-3 KJV
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I have no idea what your talking about.

Are you not implying that Jesus has already come back in person?

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you think prophecy in chapter 14 is a reason chapter 13 is wrong, you may want to rethink your position. Those whose prophecy and it does not happen, should be stoned by the church. So the issue is, if it happens too often there are not any propheciars left, or prophecy is just in vain. When a brother points out your prophecy goes against the Word of God, do you get offended at God's Word, or the brother who was trying to help you. See, there is a lot of burden that goes with prophecy. Just going with, "thus saith the Lord" and repeating Bible verses, that others can plainly see without interpretation is better than "stuff" that cannot be verified and perhaps not ever. That only gets the false prophet off the hook cause they are already dead.

I think you are confusing Old Testament prophecy which has passed into history at the death of John the Baptizer, and New Testament prophecy which is not intended for the Gentile nations, but for the church meeting.

As far as "thus says the Lord", I don't go along with that at all, and never say it when I give a prophetic word. This is because if a word is prophetic for the hearer, then I don't have to say it is from the Lord at all. That is for the listener to determine.

Jeremiah 23:25-40 is a good Scripture passage to encourage a person to be extra-careful to make sure that when he goes to give a prophetic word either to a group or another person, he is in tune with the Holy Spirit. To be safe, it is best to give a word by way of advice rather than preface it as from the Lord. The only direct voice of the Lord is in His written Word, and that is what He speaks through. If a person hears a voice that says things not consistent with what God has already said in the written Scripture, then the voice is not coming from the Holy Spirit, but from another spirit.

Even to be able to say, "If Jesus was here, He would say this to you", one must be mighty in the Scriptures and a person of prayer so that he can be totally familiar with what comes from God and what doesn't.

Also, I don't believe that predictive prophecy is the type of prophecy that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 14, but can be more like New Age fortune telling.

 

[Waiting on him]

Are you not implying that Jesus has already come back in person?

Believe what you wish,

 

[marksman]

it is, huh. All you guys, sheesh. Ok m marksman, give us the Quote for that please if you would, ty

Mat 12:31 I tell you that any sinful thing you do or say can be forgiven. Even if you speak against the Son of Man, you can be forgiven. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven, either in this life or in the life to come.

 

[historyb]

I was in a Christian college and three of my friends were in a very bad accident. One friend has his whole insides moved and was not expected to make it, that night the college setup a prayer vigil and we all prayed. Two weeks later my friend told everybody about what happened, his insides returned to their normal position over night. I am in a wheelchair and when I was in the same college we went on a mission trip to Mexico and me and my friends were goofing around and I was going to fast in my wheelchair, hit a speed bump and went flying out. I never hit the ground but went down as softly as if someone was holding me and my friends said they saw a guy in all white and blond hair shaking his finger at them

When I was a kid I got the flu and got real dehydrated, went to the ER and got medicine. I was real bad the next day which was Sunday so my mom went to Church and they all prayed. When my mom got home I was sitting up and went back to school Tuesday after seeing the Doctor Monday who said if he had not seen my ER record he would thought I was faking so I didn't have to go to school.

Yes God still heals today.

 

[Timtofly]

I think you are confusing Old Testament prophecy which has passed into history at the death of John the Baptizer, and New Testament prophecy which is not intended for the Gentile nations, but for the church meeting.

As far as "thus says the Lord", I don't go along with that at all, and never say it when I give a prophetic word. This is because if a word is prophetic for the hearer, then I don't have to say it is from the Lord at all. That is for the listener to determine.

Jeremiah 23:25-40 is a good Scripture passage to encourage a person to be extra-careful to make sure that when he goes to give a prophetic word either to a group or another person, he is in tune with the Holy Spirit. To be safe, it is best to give a word by way of advice rather than preface it as from the Lord. The only direct voice of the Lord is in His written Word, and that is what He speaks through. If a person hears a voice that says things not consistent with what God has already said in the written Scripture, then the voice is not coming from the Holy Spirit, but from another spirit.

Even to be able to say, "If Jesus was here, He would say this to you", one must be mighty in the Scriptures and a person of prayer so that he can be totally familiar with what comes from God and what doesn't.

Also, I don't believe that predictive prophecy is the type of prophecy that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 14, but can be more like New Age fortune telling.

So we go from prediction which may or may not help to pagan oracles. Not helping your case any. The issue I have with it, is that a human takes on the role of the Holy Spirit. I doubt very few people can be an Abraham Moses Elijah or any prophet. Humans today make great hypocrites just by nature.

The curse and punishment on those who try to be something they are not and lead the church astray, is far greater than one who pushes a bad interpretation. Because the hearer can also read and be lead by the Holy Spirit. A prophet can only rely on their own prophecy.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus didn't seek to save His life

 

[Paul Christensen]

Believe what you wish,

Read what Paul says about that in 1 and 2 Thessalonians. He clearly says that those who believe that Christ has returned already, are deceived. I agree with him.