Myth vs Truth - What the Bible Says

[The Disciple John]

Many of us were born into "Christianity" - that is, our parents "took us to church".
We grew up hearing, and often believing what "the church" taught. Some teachings we questioned.
As we progressed in life, we discovered things from the Bible, that we realized were contrary to what the Bible actually teaches we were actually taught (My error. Sorry. Thanks @Happy Trails. I didn't realize).
Have you found this in your case?
What are some 'myths' you have been taught, which are at odds with what the Bible says?
Please state the myth first, then follow with what the Bible says.

I'll begin the OP with one I found.
Myth :

All good people go to heaven. All bad people go to hell.​

What the Bible says / teaches :

• Only a small number of faithful ones go to heaven to rule forever.

Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:4; Revelation 14:1-4; 2 Corinthians 5:1​

• A vast majority of the righteous will live on earth.

Genesis 22:18; Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:21; Isaiah 11:1-10; Isaiah 65:17-25; Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Matthew 5:5; Galatians 3:18; Revelation 21:1-4​

• All people - whether good or bad, go to Sheol/Hades (rendered hell in some translations)

Genesis 37:35; Genesis 42:38; Numbers 16:30-33; 2 Samuel 22:5-7; 1 Kings 2:6; Job 14:13-14; Jonah 2:1-2​

 

[Happy Trails]

Many of us were born into "Christianity" - that is, our parents "took us to church".
We grew up hearing, and often believing what "the church" taught. Some teachings we questioned.
As we progressed in life, we discovered things from the Bible, that we realized were contrary to what the Bible actually teaches.
Have you found this in your case?
What are some 'myths' you have been taught, which are at odds with what the Bible says?
Please state the myth first, then follow with what the Bible says.

I'll begin the OP with one I found.
Myth :

All good people go to heaven. All bad people go to hell.​

What the Bible says / teaches :

• Only a small number of faithful ones go to heaven to rule forever.

Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:4; Revelation 14:1-4; 2 Corinthians 5:1​

• A vast majority of the righteous will live on earth.

Genesis 22:18; Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:21; Isaiah 11:1-10; Isaiah 65:17-25; Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Matthew 5:5; Galatians 3:18; Revelation 21:1-4​

• All people - whether good or bad, go to Sheol/Hades (rendered hell in some translations)

Genesis 37:35; Genesis 42:38; Numbers 16:30-33; 2 Samuel 22:5-7; 1 Kings 2:6; Job 14:13-14; Jonah 2:1-2​

You thought the same idea 2 ways, and wrote half of both. I do that all the time!
It is impossible to discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what the Bible teaches. Doh! One can more likely discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach. That is what Jesus called leaven. This is the week of unleavened bread.
The Bible DOES NOT say that the 144K go to heaven to rule forever. Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything. That strategy does not take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.
Revelation 7:4 says that the 144K are sealed. That's it.
The seal protects them from what the 4 angels are about to do. Nothing is said about ruling. The remainder of the chapter explains that a numberless multitude will stand before the throne and serve YHVH. All of that is in the New Jerusalem, on the earth. The 144K will be on the earth, just like everyone else.

Revelation 14:1-4 says the 144K are on Mt Zion. That is Jerusalem on the earth. The 144K are the first fruits offering.

Revelation becomes the easiest book to understand when one realizes it is the fulfillment of the Fall Feasts of YHVH. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts on His first visit. Now, He will return to fulfill the remainder. It is not widely understood that the Book of Revelation is ENTIRELY in chronological order. That is the only way to reveal that the return of Jesus and "the world to come" (Olam HaBa) are explained in the the Law. THAT is what Jesus fulfills. The exceptions are pauses in the story, asides, that explain specific things. Both mentions of the 144K occur in just such pauses in the overall chronological sequence of the story. Welcome to the Fall Feasts of YHVH:

Revelation Outline
Introduction – 1:1-9 This is the revelation, or revealing, of the Messiah. This revealing is for those who are the servants of Yeshua, not merely hearers of the Word. It is for the doers of the Word.

The Day of YHVH and Appearance of Messiah. 1:10-18 John was meditating on “the Day of YHVH.” It is the subject of his meditation, not the time of it. If I meditate on the Gospels, they are the subject of my meditation. The Day of YHVH is the subject of this entire book. It is not a euphemism for Sunday: Isaiah 2:12, Isaiah 13:6, Isaiah 13:9, Jeremiah 46:10, Ezekiel 13:5, Ezekiel 30:3, Joel 1:15, Joel 2:1, Joel 2:11, Joel 2:31, Joel 3:14, Amos 5:18, Amos 5:20, Obadiah 1:15, Zephaniah 1:7, Zephaniah 1:14, Zechariah 14:1, Malachi 4:5, Acts 2:20, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 2 Corinthians 1:14, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
The instruction (1:19) to write what you have just seen, the things which are now (1:20-3:22) and the future (4:1-22:6).
The things you have just seen: He has just seen the Messiah and the lampstands. (1:10-20)
The things as they are: The condition of the seven assemblies of Asia Minor is their current condition, and prophetic for the body of believers through history. 1:20-3:22 Each church is given a praise, a grievance, a warning and a promise, with 2 exceptions. Philadelphia is given no grievance. Laodicea is given no praise.
Future events are from 4:1 through 22:6. They are broken down as follows: The Throne Room of YHVH. 4:1-11 The phrase 'in the spirit' appears again. The announcement that only the Lamb is worthy to remove the seals, and the removal of the first six seals. 5:1-6:17
Seal 1 releases a conqueror, probably political.
Seal 2 releases a conqueror, probably military.
Seal 3 is an economic collapse.
Seal 4 is the killing of one quarter of mankind by military power, controlling the food supply, genocide and biological weapons.
Seal 5 reveals a picture of the dead saints throughout history.
Seal 6 is an earthquake and heavenly signs. Stars could mean...?
NOTE:
Pause #1 in the chronology to explain the destiny of the believers. 7:1-17 144,000 are sealed. A great multitude sings praises to YHVH.
No more tears.
Seventh seal opened, seven trumpets introduced. 8:1-5
Trumpets 1 through 4 are blown, 3 woes announced. 8:6-13 Trumpet 1 is all out war. 8:7 Trumpet 2 is possibly a coastal city being nuked. 8:8-9 Trumpet 3 is possibly a nuclear blast inland. 8:10-11 Trumpet 4 darkness caused by the smoke of the wars. 8:12-13 Trumpet 5 is the release of a massive army. Destroyer is revealed. This will likely happen on Purim, the feast that celebrates the revealing of Haman as the intended destroyer of the nation of Israel. The first woe is past. 9:1-12 Trumpet 6 is the release of four angels which will kill 25% of the remainder of mankind. 9:13-21
Announcement of seven thunders. Instructions not to write what the thunders say. 10:1-4
Announcement that the seventh trumpet will bring the conclusion of the mystery of YHVH. 10:5-7 No more delay! The book tastes sweet but makes the eater sick. It describes the what is coming to the earth. 10:8-11
NOTE:
Pause #2 in the chronology to explain the events in Jerusalem during the three and one half years. Jerusalem is in the hands of Gentiles.
The second woe is past. 11:1-14 Seventh trumpet! The first resurrection and gathering of the saints. 11:15-18a
The wrath of YHVH is coming to the earth. 11:18b The Temple is Heaven is opened. 11:19
NOTE:
Pause #3 in the chronology to explain the past, present and future:
The promised seed. 12:1-6
War in heaven. 12:7-9, 2 Thess 2:1-7
The Kingdom of YHVH and the blood of the Lamb. 12;10-17
The beast government. 13:1-8
The mark of the beast. 13:9-18
The first fruits before the Throne. 14;1-5
The judgment of Babylon. 14:6-14
The Day of YHVH, including the harvest of the earth (the “Rapture”), and the gathering of the grapes to be put in the winepress. 14:14-20
Preparing the wrath of YHVH. 15:1
The sea of fire and glass. 15:2-4
The Tabernacle in heaven is open. We see the Ark of the Covenant. (This is picking up after verse 11:19.) 15:5
Six bowls of wrath are poured out onto the earth. 15:6-16:12
Preparation by the beast for the last battle. 16:13-16
Seventh bowl. 16:17-21
The description of mystery Babylon. 17:1-18:24
Judgment of Babylon completed. 19:1-4
Marriage Supper of the Lamb. (Prophetic fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles) 19:5-10
Yeshua dresses for battle. Returns with the saints. 19:11-16
Calls the birds to a feast of the flesh of kings. 19:17-18
Battle for earth. 19:19-21
Satan bound. 20:1-3
The 1,000-year reign. 20:4-6
Final rebellion. 20:7-8
Final defeat. 20:9-10
Judgment Day. 20:11-15
Eternity 21:1-22:5
Words of encouragement 22:6-21

 

[Robert Gwin]

You thought the same idea 2 ways, and wrote half of both. I do that all the time!
It is impossible to discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what the Bible teaches. Doh! One can more likely discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach. That is what Jesus called leaven. This is the week of unleavened bread.
The Bible DOES NOT say that the 144K go to heaven to rule forever. Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything. That strategy does not take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.
Revelation 7:4 says that the 144K are sealed. That's it.
The seal protects them from what the 4 angels are about to do. Nothing is said about ruling. The remainder of the chapter explains that a numberless multitude will stand before the throne and serve YHVH. All of that is in the New Jerusalem, on the earth. The 144K will be on the earth, just like everyone else.

Revelation 14:1-4 says the 144K are on Mt Zion. That is Jerusalem on the earth. The 144K are the first fruits offering.

Revelation becomes the easiest book to understand when one realizes it is the fulfillment of the Fall Feasts of YHVH. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts on His first visit. Now, He will return to fulfill the remainder. It is not widely understood that the Book of Revelation is ENTIRELY in chronological order. That is the only way to reveal that the return of Jesus and "the world to come" (Olam HaBa) are explained in the the Law. THAT is what Jesus fulfills. The exceptions are pauses in the story, asides, that explain specific things. Both mentions of the 144K occur in just such pauses in the overall chronological sequence of the story. Welcome to the Fall Feasts of YHVH:

Revelation Outline
Introduction – 1:1-9 This is the revelation, or revealing, of the Messiah. This revealing is for those who are the servants of Yeshua, not merely hearers of the Word. It is for the doers of the Word.

The Day of YHVH and Appearance of Messiah. 1:10-18 John was meditating on “the Day of YHVH.” It is the subject of his meditation, not the time of it. If I meditate on the Gospels, they are the subject of my meditation. The Day of YHVH is the subject of this entire book. It is not a euphemism for Sunday: Isaiah 2:12, Isaiah 13:6, Isaiah 13:9, Jeremiah 46:10, Ezekiel 13:5, Ezekiel 30:3, Joel 1:15, Joel 2:1, Joel 2:11, Joel 2:31, Joel 3:14, Amos 5:18, Amos 5:20, Obadiah 1:15, Zephaniah 1:7, Zephaniah 1:14, Zechariah 14:1, Malachi 4:5, Acts 2:20, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 2 Corinthians 1:14, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
The instruction (1:19) to write what you have just seen, the things which are now (1:20-3:22) and the future (4:1-22:6).
The things you have just seen: He has just seen the Messiah and the lampstands. (1:10-20)
The things as they are: The condition of the seven assemblies of Asia Minor is their current condition, and prophetic for the body of believers through history. 1:20-3:22 Each church is given a praise, a grievance, a warning and a promise, with 2 exceptions. Philadelphia is given no grievance. Laodicea is given no praise.
Future events are from 4:1 through 22:6. They are broken down as follows: The Throne Room of YHVH. 4:1-11 The phrase 'in the spirit' appears again. The announcement that only the Lamb is worthy to remove the seals, and the removal of the first six seals. 5:1-6:17
Seal 1 releases a conqueror, probably political.
Seal 2 releases a conqueror, probably military.
Seal 3 is an economic collapse.
Seal 4 is the killing of one quarter of mankind by military power, controlling the food supply, genocide and biological weapons.
Seal 5 reveals a picture of the dead saints throughout history.
Seal 6 is an earthquake and heavenly signs. Stars could mean...?
NOTE:
Pause #1 in the chronology to explain the destiny of the believers. 7:1-17 144,000 are sealed. A great multitude sings praises to YHVH.
No more tears.
Seventh seal opened, seven trumpets introduced. 8:1-5
Trumpets 1 through 4 are blown, 3 woes announced. 8:6-13 Trumpet 1 is all out war. 8:7 Trumpet 2 is possibly a coastal city being nuked. 8:8-9 Trumpet 3 is possibly a nuclear blast inland. 8:10-11 Trumpet 4 darkness caused by the smoke of the wars. 8:12-13 Trumpet 5 is the release of a massive army. Destroyer is revealed. This will likely happen on Purim, the feast that celebrates the revealing of Haman as the intended destroyer of the nation of Israel. The first woe is past. 9:1-12 Trumpet 6 is the release of four angels which will kill 25% of the remainder of mankind. 9:13-21
Announcement of seven thunders. Instructions not to write what the thunders say. 10:1-4
Announcement that the seventh trumpet will bring the conclusion of the mystery of YHVH. 10:5-7 No more delay! The book tastes sweet but makes the eater sick. It describes the what is coming to the earth. 10:8-11
NOTE:
Pause #2 in the chronology to explain the events in Jerusalem during the three and one half years. Jerusalem is in the hands of Gentiles.
The second woe is past. 11:1-14 Seventh trumpet! The first resurrection and gathering of the saints. 11:15-18a
The wrath of YHVH is coming to the earth. 11:18b The Temple is Heaven is opened. 11:19
NOTE:
Pause #3 in the chronology to explain the past, present and future:
The promised seed. 12:1-6
War in heaven. 12:7-9, 2 Thess 2:1-7
The Kingdom of YHVH and the blood of the Lamb. 12;10-17
The beast government. 13:1-8
The mark of the beast. 13:9-18
The first fruits before the Throne. 14;1-5
The judgment of Babylon. 14:6-14
The Day of YHVH, including the harvest of the earth (the “Rapture”), and the gathering of the grapes to be put in the winepress. 14:14-20
Preparing the wrath of YHVH. 15:1
The sea of fire and glass. 15:2-4
The Tabernacle in heaven is open. We see the Ark of the Covenant. (This is picking up after verse 11:19.) 15:5
Six bowls of wrath are poured out onto the earth. 15:6-16:12
Preparation by the beast for the last battle. 16:13-16
Seventh bowl. 16:17-21
The description of mystery Babylon. 17:1-18:24
Judgment of Babylon completed. 19:1-4
Marriage Supper of the Lamb. (Prophetic fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles) 19:5-10
Yeshua dresses for battle. Returns with the saints. 19:11-16
Calls the birds to a feast of the flesh of kings. 19:17-18
Battle for earth. 19:19-21
Satan bound. 20:1-3
The 1,000-year reign. 20:4-6
Final rebellion. 20:7-8
Final defeat. 20:9-10
Judgment Day. 20:11-15
Eternity 21:1-22:5
Words of encouragement 22:6-21

Rev 5:9,10

 

[The Disciple John]

You thought the same idea 2 ways, and wrote half of both. I do that all the time!

The same idea 2 ways? I don't understand what you mean.

It is impossible to discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what the Bible teaches. Doh! One can more likely discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach.

Yes. That is what the OP is about.

That is what Jesus called leaven. This is the week of unleavened bread.
The Bible DOES NOT say that the 144K go to heaven to rule forever.

Revelation 14:1-4 refers to whom? The 144,000. We agree. Yes?
The 144,000 are the saints who stuck with Jesus. Yes?
The ones who stuck with Jesus started with whom? His 11 faithful apostles. Luke 22:28-30 We agree. Yes?
These are promised a kingdom to rule with Christ as heirs with him. Luke 12:32; Galatians 3:29; Romans 8:17; 2 Timothy 2:12 We agree thus far. Yes?
How long do they rule for?
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’
Revelation 22:5 And they shall reign forever and ever.

I like to be sure we are on the same page, before running along. So... Do you agree with the scriptural answer here?

 

[The Disciple John]

Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything. That strategy does not take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.
Revelation 7:4 says that the 144K are sealed. That's it.
The seal protects them from what the 4 angels are about to do. Nothing is said about ruling.

You said "Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything".
Considering we don't want to run with our imagination, would you also agree that phrases made without scripture can easily be made by anyone?
So you wouldn't mind providing the scripture that supports the idea that "The seal protects them from what the 4 angels are about to do".

There are several scriptures which show what the seal does.
2 Corinthians 1:22 - [He has] set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Romans 8:23 - Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

Ephesians 1:13-14 - ...you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession - to the praise of his glory.

So, accoding to the scriptures, which is what we are considering, the sealing does not serve as a protection, but rather, the sealing serves as a guarantee of their adoption as son, and a releasing from the body by ransom.
They are guaranteed a heavenly calling as heirs of Christ.

Are you in agreement here?
This final sealing takes place before God unleashes his wrath, at Armageddon.

 

[The Disciple John]

The remainder of the chapter explains that a numberless multitude will stand before the throne and serve YHVH. All of that is in the New Jerusalem, on the earth. The 144K will be on the earth, just like everyone else.

Revelation 14:1-4 says the 144K are on Mt Zion. That is Jerusalem on the earth.

Keeping with the format. "phrases made without scripture can easily be made by anyone", and considering we don't want to run with our imagination, which scripture agrees with your ideas?

There are several that says this Mount Zion is heavenly.
Hebrews 12:22-29 - 12 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

The 144,000 are seen in heaven with the lamb. They are not on the physical Mount Zion, in Israel.

New Jerusalem is the bride of the lamb. Revelation 21:2 Yes?
Which is...
Revelation 19:6-8 - 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

The lambs wife is the saints.
The saints are those who rule with Christ in the kingdom - those that stuck with Christ.
The saints... which is the 144,000, are sealed with the holy spirit as sons of God.
The 144,000 then is New Jerusalem.

The marriage takes place when the lamb, with New Jerusalem rules over the earth. Revelation 21:2-4
It does not come down to earth. How do we know?
This is where we take into consideration again, what you said, "Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything. That strategy does not take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.", as well as other scriptures

1. The great multitude seen in verse 9, fit the description in Revelation 21:3-4.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 7:15-17
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

2. Being before the throne does not automatically place one in heaven.
Revelation 20:11-12
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Matthew 25:31-33
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

3. God dwelling with men, does not automatically place him on earth.
Exodus 29:43-46
43 And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory. 44 So I will consecrate the tabernacle of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate both Aaron and his sons to minister to Me as priests. 45 I will dwell among the children of Israel and will be their God. 46 And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them up out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them. I am the Lord their God.

Exodus 29:45 I will dwell among the children of Israel and will be their God.

There are quite a lot. Too many to quote. So, additionally...
Exodus 25:8; Leviticus 26:12; 1 Kings 6:13; Zechariah 2:11; 2 Corinthians 6:16 ...and many besides these.

4. The kingdom rules from heaven over people on earth.
Genesis 22:18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
Galatians 3:8, 16, 29; Luke 1:31-33; Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10; Psalms 37:9-11, 29

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

5. The saints are given immortal spirit bodies to live in heaven and be in God's presence, sitting on thrones and ruling, forever.
This will save me time. Link
So glad I created that blog.

6. Eternal in the heavens means just that - eternal in the heavens.
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

There is a united family both on earth, and in heaven.
The kingdom is for that purpose. Ephesians 1
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth — in Him.

My blog covers this thoroughly, and in detail, using scriptures only. Link

 

[The Disciple John]

The 144K are the first fruits offering.

Firstfruits to God, and the lamb.
Revelation 14:4 - These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

Revelation becomes the easiest book to understand when one realizes it is the fulfillment of the Fall Feasts of YHVH. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts on His first visit. Now, He will return to fulfill the remainder. It is not widely understood that the Book of Revelation is ENTIRELY in chronological order. That is the only way to reveal that the return of Jesus and "the world to come" (Olam HaBa) are explained in the the Law. THAT is what Jesus fulfills. The exceptions are pauses in the story, asides, that explain specific things. Both mentions of the 144K occur in just such pauses in the overall chronological sequence of the story. Welcome to the Fall Feasts of YHVH:

Revelation becomes an easy book only when one understands the overall message of the Bible, and all the pieces fall into the correct place.
That is possible one way only.

Gather where the eagles are...
Luke 17:37 - And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
So you can be fed.
Matthew 24:45 - “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?

Any other way, is like doing what Jesus' enemies did. John 5:39

 

[ScottA]

One can more likely discover things in the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach.

Bingo!

 

[Happy Trails]

The same idea 2 ways? I don't understand what you mean.


Yes. That is what the OP is about.


Revelation 14:1-4 refers to whom? The 144,000. We agree. Yes?
The 144,000 are the saints who stuck with Jesus. Yes?
The ones who stuck with Jesus started with whom? His 11 faithful apostles. Luke 22:28-30 We agree. Yes?
These are promised a kingdom to rule with Christ as heirs with him. Luke 12:32; Galatians 3:29; Romans 8:17; 2 Timothy 2:12 We agree thus far. Yes?
How long do they rule for?
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’
Revelation 22:5 And they shall reign forever and ever.

I like to be sure we are on the same page, before running along. So... Do you agree with the scriptural answer here?

You said, "As we progressed in life, we discovered things from the Bible, that we realized were contrary to what the Bible actually teaches."

One could discover things from the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach. But, you can't find anything in the Bible that is contrary to what the Bible teaches. That is a logical fallacy.

The 144K are those who were sealed. (Revelation 7:1-3) The angel doing the sealing told the 4 angels who were about to "hurt the earth, the seas and the trees" to wait until the sealing was done. The term "stuck with Jesus" could mean anything. So, I don't accept that as a descriptor. On the day the sealing occurs, it will have nothing to do with anyone in the past. It is for those people on that day.

Luke 12:32 That is not a promise to rule over a kingdom.
Galatians 3:29 Nothing about ruling over a kingdom.
Romans 8:17 Nothing about ruling.
2 Timothy 2:12 Finally, something about ruling. However, it says nothing about it being the 144K, or that the 144K are anyone but a group selected in the last days.

Revelation 14 says that they were on Mt Zion. That is on the earth. The tabernacle of YHVH comes to the earth. They are not ruling from heaven.

 

[Happy Trails]

3. God dwelling with men, does not automatically place him on earth.
Exodus 29:43-46
43 And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory. 44 So I will consecrate the tabernacle of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate both Aaron and his sons to minister to Me as priests. 45 I will dwell among the children of Israel and will be their God. 46 And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them up out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them. I am the Lord their God.

Revelation 21:1-3 says the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, and that the tabernacle of YHVH will be with men, and he will dwell with them.
So, yes. God will dwell on the earth. When the glory of YHVH was in the tabernacle, he was dwelling on the earth.

 

[Happy Trails]

Firstfruits to God, and the lamb.
Revelation 14:4 - These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.


Revelation becomes an easy book only when one understands the overall message of the Bible, and all the pieces fall into the correct place.
That is possible one way only.

Gather where the eagles are...
Luke 17:37 - And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
So you can be fed.
Matthew 24:45 - “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?

Any other way, is like doing what Jesus' enemies did. John 5:39

OK. I say the book of Revelation is best understood in the light of the Fall Feasts in the Torah. You say that it is best understood by the overall message of the Bible. So, what is the overall message of the Bible, and how does that help me understand the book of Revelation?

Luke 17:37 and Matthew 24:45 have nothing to do with who the 144K are, or what they do or where they are.

 

[The Disciple John]

You said, "As we progressed in life, we discovered things from the Bible, that we realized were contrary to what the Bible actually teaches."

One could discover things from the Bible that are contrary to what PEOPLE teach. But, you can't find anything in the Bible that is contrary to what the Bible teaches. That is a logical fallacy.

Edit. @Happy Trails I didn't realize my mistake there. Thanks.

The 144K are those who were sealed. (Revelation 7:1-3) The angel doing the sealing told the 4 angels who were about to "hurt the earth, the seas and the trees" to wait until the sealing was done. The term "stuck with Jesus" could mean anything. So, I don't accept that as a descriptor. On the day the sealing occurs, it will have nothing to do with anyone in the past. It is for those people on that day.

The ones being sealed, are the remaining ones on earth at that time, who make up the full number of 144,000.

Luke 12:32 That is not a promise to rule over a kingdom.
Galatians 3:29 Nothing about ruling over a kingdom.
Romans 8:17 Nothing about ruling.
2 Timothy 2:12 Finally, something about ruling. However, it says nothing about it being the 144K, or that the 144K are anyone but a group selected in the last days.

You are going against what you said. Phrases taken from a few verses can be imagined as anything. That strategy does not take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.

Revelation 14 says that they were on Mt Zion. That is on the earth. The tabernacle of YHVH comes to the earth. They are not ruling from heaven.

You ignored, and refused to take into account loads of other information that is important for understanding.

Edit... and I agree that Revelation ia about the things John sees in the Lord's day and beyond.
Maybe I will meet you in another thread @Happy Trails. Be well.