Natural Theology of Mortal Souls

[face2face]

I know of Christians in this forum who are no longer able to say Jesus didn't actually die on the cross.

Consider the seriousness of this subject:

“For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.” Hebrews 5:10-11

Enemies ---->death of Christ------>reconciled to God------>saved

So the Christian begins as an enemy of God through fleshy thinking and its lusts - Jesus doesn't actually die - not reconciled - not saved.

The "death" total a utter cessation of life is paramount in understanding the principles of atonement by a sacrificial victim! Jesus must be dead, not half, or part, but completely and utterly for the benefit of that sacrifice to take affect in a believers life.

Notice the tense around being reconciled and being saved at a future time?

I can see why wiser more discerning Christians are seeing their salvation is in question if they get Christ (his death) wrong.

F2F

 

[Marvin Christopher Fox]

you would like to show a different reading of them, then I'd be glad to see it.

I

do appreciate your plain spokenness and clarity. However, It looks like we are going to be disagreeing; however, rather than continue in arguments of our own, I will endaevor to just supply Scripture for rebuttal.

Thank you robert for your kind words. I too appreciate your reasoned approach and desire to understand. I profit from your example.

It's just that scripture isn't a useful authority if the parties using it don't agree on it's meaning.
We have to rely on reason to either come to that agreement or to support our respective positions.
Peace of Christ to you.

 

[Jack]

Read that again J.
Many Christians are starting to see the doctrinal issues your understanding presents when looking at the atonement.
Do you understand what I mean by the atonement?

Many Christians? Who made you spokesman? No Scripture? Of course not! How about Scripture for a change so it can easily be refuted? One JW here said Jesus, my Savior "ceased to exist" for 3 days. Have you heard of anything so Satanically ridiculous?

 

[robert derrick]

It's just that scripture isn't a useful authority if the parties using it don't agree on it's meaning.

Now that is a very wise thing to say. I have learned the hard way, that if simple reading of the same Scripture is not agreed upon, then there will never be any agreement on any other Scriptures that address the same thing.

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

God bless you too bro.

 

[face2face]

Many Christians? Who made you spokesman? No Scripture? Of course not! How about Scripture for a change so it can easily be refuted? One JW here said Jesus, my Savior "ceased to exist" for 3 days. Have you heard of anything so Satanically ridiculous?

J when is death not death?

 

[face2face]

Jesus is a better sacrifice for sin than the animals but the principle of Leviticus 17:11 stands as true for the animal sacrifice as it does for the Lord Jesus Christ

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

So it was with Jesus - his life was in his blood and that life was given to us to make atonement for our sins.

Now what happens when a Christian states "Jesus didn't actually die!"

Well, the Lords' own words in Matt 26:28

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

He either completely died in this offering of his blood, or his offering was a hoax and he pretended to suffer and die.

Either way, you have atonement; reconciliation and salvation, or you have a sham.

Scripture is clear...he died.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont...the shedding or pouring out of Christ's blood is based on the act of killing a sacrifice. It's a real literal sacrifice and speaks of a literal death: "thou wast slain and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood" (Revelation 5:9). The shedding of his blood (his death) is the basis of remission of sins. One of the values of his death is in providing a suitable basis for our forgiveness.

A perfect obedient life given wholly to death - death on the cross.

Without this basis.... no forgiveness is possible! "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanser's us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves..." (1 John 1:8).

We could add to this if we say "Jesus did not literally die" we deceive ourselves and we must yet be in our sins.

It would also mean the fellowship Christ extends could not be done so, if one believe he didn't die.

F2F

 

[face2face]

If you believe Christ's "life" wasn't in his blood what do you think he gave?

We will look at the importance of his blood and how it cleanse us.

 

[robert derrick]

J when is death not death?

I understand the issue now. Disagreement can often be as good as agreement, in understanding the truth.

Disagreement compels searching for answers to legitimate questions.

I know we have gone back and forth on spiritual vs natural mindedness, and I have continued with you, because we are both honest in at least hearing the other, and so will at least give a response to fair challenges. Most people just ignore what others say and just talk around one another.

To the natural mind, death is seen in flesh only, which indeed is nothing but a corpse with no life whatsoever, not even spirit, but just dead grass and dust.

However to understand the nature of spiritual death, where the spirit continues but is not alive, makes no sense to the natural mind, and so there can be no agreement.

Therefore, the understanding of it must come from the simple truth of Scripture:

The devil and Satan is the spirit and god of this world, the prince and power of the air.

Is the devil dead or alive? Is he spiritually alive or dead?

 

[face2face]

I understand the issue now. Disagreement can often be as good as agreement, in understanding the truth.

Disagreement compels searching for answers to legitimate questions.

I know we have gone back and forth on spiritual vs natural mindedness, and I have continued with you, because we are both honest in at least hearing the other, and so will at least give a response to fair challenges. Most people just ignore what others say and just talk around one another.

To the natural mind, death is seen in flesh only, which indeed is nothing but a corpse with no life whatsoever, not even spirit, but just dead grass and dust.

However to understand the nature of spiritual death, where the spirit continues but is not alive, makes no sense to the natural mind, and so there can be no agreement.

Therefore, the understanding of it must come from the simple truth of Scripture:

The devil and Satan is the spirit and god of this world, the prince and power of the air.

Is the devil dead or alive? Is he spiritually alive or dead?

Spiritual death is here Mark 3:29
Man in 100% natural creature with the propensity to reason upon divine principles - from his mind he can think in harmony with God and Christ though never fully His thoughts.
When you die robert you will cease to exist completely and if your understanding of Christ is right and true your faith like many others before you Hebrews 11 can see you raised and glorified.
The devil (false accuser) being in slavery to death has in principle been destroyed though many are still enslaved by sin God has not redeemed the elect for more are being called from the earth to belong to his family.
F2F

 

[face2face]

It was genuinely disturbing to hear of Christians in this thread state Jesus did not give his whole life on the cross.

The teaching that Jesus did not have our nature and he did not experience death leads one to Paul's understanding on the resurrection.

"if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain: ye are yet in your sins" (1 Cor. 15:17).

Here you will see Paul doesn't say "If Christ's body be not raised" as though a part of him is wafting around the atmosphere for three days while everyone mourns his loss!

If Christ be not dead and his life was not given then what was raised?

You say "a mortal corpse!"

And that's your definition of Christ giving "his life"

I'll put it out there - because you hold to the trinity you do not know what was given...but what we do know is the Christian cannot see the wonder of Christ and his offering for sin until such time as they walk away from truine doctrine.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Let's go a step deeper into this subject of Christ being 100% mortal.

What was the condition of entry into Heaven?

Matthew 26:28. "This is my blood" he said, in handing the cup to them, "which is shed for many".

Paul remarks Heb. 10:19: "Having therefore boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way".

If the life of Jesus was in his blood and he gave that blood in obedience to his Father it was this same blood shed in principle which gave entrance into the Holiest Place and as we are told becomes the new and living way.

I'm sure you can see the anomalies here.

It's not a new and living way if Jesus pre-existed, Impossible! Jesus cannot have already been in Heaven during his death because his offering is based on his resurrection and entering up into Glory.

The boldness to enter is based on perfect obedience and not him being a god.

He now "becomes" the first mortal man to be highly exalted but also now able to wash his brothers and sisters of their sins by faith...offering the same boldness to reign with him

Rev. 1:5: "Unto him that loved us, and hath washed us from our sins in his own blood.

Not literal dear Christians - it speaks of "living that new way" and by doing so one is washed in heart and conscience.

That is why the Elect are seen singing..."Thou wast slain (completely), and has redeemed us to God by thy blood".

Again in Rev 7:14: "These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb"

An oddity washing in blood and coming out clean also showing its living the same new way of life which Jesus did in his mortal life and probation and triumphing over the nature he bore.

These things Christians hardly dear to look into let alone make comment.

F2F

 

[robert derrick]

Spiritual death is here Mark 3:29
Man in 100% natural creature with the propensity to reason upon divine principles - from his mind he can think in harmony with God and Christ though never fully His thoughts.
When you die robert you will cease to exist completely and if your understanding of Christ is right and true your faith like many others before you Hebrews 11 can see you raised and glorified.
The devil (false accuser) being in slavery to death has in principle been destroyed though many are still enslaved by sin God has not redeemed the elect for more are being called from the earth to belong to his family.
F2F

And so we've come to the question you will not answer.

Neither the spirits of angels nor the souls of men will ever be without heart and mind to think, intend, and imagine, whether for good or evil.

The spirit and god of this world used to be the lively spirit of Lucifer as created by Christ, and is now spiritually dead apart from God, yet still thinking and intending evil always.

The angels that sinned are now in hell reserved for judgment, along with souls of wicked men, that sin as the angels unto the death of their bodies.

 

[robert derrick]

It was genuinely disturbing to hear of Christians in this thread state Jesus did not give his whole life on the cross.

The teaching that Jesus did not have our nature and he did not experience death leads one to Paul's understanding on the resurrection.

As with all disingenuous people, you now you descend to farcical lying about the teaching.

Any man can give his body in death:

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

But only Jesus Christ could give His soul a ransom for sin:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now that you've cast aside all pretense of honesty with teaching of others, we're done.

 

[BeyondET]

My bet is on God's Word

The subject of soul has a couple tentacles that are interesting, but I will refrain from going there.

While soul is occasionally reference as the spirit of man, (subject to context) there is no immortality or transmigration of the soul……soul and spirit (biblically) are two very different things. How people use them in secular and religious dialogue may or may not reflect Gods intent.

One of the many great things about the Word of God is….. God will define things that are necessary for us to know…. which takes all the guess work out of it….so we don’t have to make things up. And if things are not defined in the Word ….we just don’t know.

Fortunately, God has defined body, soul, and to a limited degree … spirit.

Body as we all know is this earth suit that we inhabit. It’s formed from the dust of the ground Gen 2:7 and when we die it eventually returns to dust.

Soul - is what mobilizes our earth suit. soul life is our breath life. It was created in great whales and in all mammals…first.

I could go into several other things, but since soul life is the predominant subject in your post, I will just focus on that….Although I highly doubt you will be swayed by anything I state.

The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing…. Only God can create. And once He does …He does not need to re-create it again… He just speaks it into existence … That is evident in the first chapter of Genesis. From verses 1:3 to 1:20 God speaks everything into existence that He had already created in the first heavens and earth in Gen 1:1

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The word “living” is the Hebrew word “chay” meaning life or living. And the word translated “creature” is the Hebrew word “nephesh” meaning soul………….God tells us in Leviticus what/where the soul is.

Lev 17:11 For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh), for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh).

The word “life” in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh)

As per Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells (actually it’s the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells) that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…
When we die …the heart which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that individual person …. but is carried on through prodigy….. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul….as 1Corinthians 15:50 makes clear.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh).
God did not create soul life in man He made it in man it had already been created in Gen_1:21.

God is spirit ... a spirit has no form. I believe God created spirit in man and that it was spirit that died when Adam blew it…And it was spirit within us unconditionally that God made available by way of what Jesus Christ accomplished. I believe scripture supports that ….but specifically it does not state that, so take it for what it’s worth.


Brief history of Soul

Nimrod initiated the belief in Babylon. Later Zoroaster in the Assyrian-Babylon culture embrace the immortality of the soul. Daoism adopted the belief in the Chinese culture. And many of the ancient cultures accepted the idea of immaterial of the soul

The Greek philosopher Plato who lived from 427 - 347 B.C. believed that at death the body and soul were separated, but he said, “it was not the end of the soul”, he said that “the soul was indestructible”. He believed in the immortality of the soul and its eternal rewards and punishments after death. He was a student of Socrates 469 - 347 B.C. who believe the same… as did Pythagoras before him (570 – 490 B.C.)

Origen (185-254 A.D.) embraced Plato’s teaching and believed in the immortality of the soul. He believed that death the soul departed to an everlasting state of reward or everlasting punishment.

There were others, but Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 A.D. crystallized the doctrine of the immortality of the soul… he wrote that “the soul cannot be destroyed” in The Summa Theologica.


There is a long list of people who strung this unbiblical belief along until it became firmly entrenched in the religious doctrine…. Nowhere in the writings of man are their beliefs upheld by biblical scripture…

life in the flesh is in the blood, cells, once a person dies, life continues in the blood. Brain cells die pretty quickly then it's a cascade of events, the immune system vamps up stem cell production to try and repair organs but it's a lost cause without the soul in the body. Bone and skin cells can live for several days.

A heart may stop beating but the heart cells are alive and well for up to an hour after the soul departs.

Reason why organ transplants can happen is the life in the flesh the blood living cells. But soul is not part of that flesh and blood the living vessel for the living soul. Certainly souls are not transplanted with the flesh and blood to another human with a soul. Rather it be a heart liver lungs or other body parts hands etc. I read were a person had a double hand tranplant amazing med tech, I'm a bit bionic got a prosthetic HV bovine mat, lol...

Brain function determines lots of things.

 

[face2face]

And so we've come to the question you will not answer.

Neither the spirits of angels nor the souls of men will ever be without heart and mind to think, intend, and imagine, whether for good or evil.

The spirit and god of this world used to be the lively spirit of Lucifer as created by Christ, and is now spiritually dead apart from God, yet still thinking and intending evil always.

The angels that sinned are now in hell reserved for judgment, along with souls of wicked men, that sin as the angels unto the death of their bodies.

Everything in that post is error from And to Bodies

 

[face2face]

As with all disingenuous people, you now you descend to farcical lying about the teaching.

Any man can give his body in death:

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

But only Jesus Christ could give His soul a ransom for sin:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now that you've cast aside all pretense of honesty with teaching of others, we're done.

Paul talking about sacrificing his body (i.e his life)
Messianic passage in Isaiah talk about making the life of sacrificial man an offering for sin.

robert you have this weird habit of quoting Scriptures that prove my understanding and not your own. I'm okay with that but it does nothing for your confidence.

You cannot separate the body of Jesus from the person of Jesus - both died and both were raised.

Hence we are back to your claim that Jesus didn't fully die, which is false teaching.

Galatians 1:4

"Jesus gave his life for our sins"

"Life" robert - all of him!

F2F

 

[The Learner]

My bet is on God's Word

The subject of soul has a couple tentacles that are interesting, but I will refrain from going there.

While soul is occasionally reference as the spirit of man, (subject to context) there is no immortality or transmigration of the soul……soul and spirit (biblically) are two very different things. How people use them in secular and religious dialogue may or may not reflect Gods intent.

One of the many great things about the Word of God is….. God will define things that are necessary for us to know…. which takes all the guess work out of it….so we don’t have to make things up. And if things are not defined in the Word ….we just don’t know.

Fortunately, God has defined body, soul, and to a limited degree … spirit.

Body as we all know is this earth suit that we inhabit. It’s formed from the dust of the ground Gen 2:7 and when we die it eventually returns to dust.

Soul - is what mobilizes our earth suit. soul life is our breath life. It was created in great whales and in all mammals…first.

I could go into several other things, but since soul life is the predominant subject in your post, I will just focus on that….Although I highly doubt you will be swayed by anything I state.

The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing…. Only God can create. And once He does …He does not need to re-create it again… He just speaks it into existence … That is evident in the first chapter of Genesis. From verses 1:3 to 1:20 God speaks everything into existence that He had already created in the first heavens and earth in Gen 1:1

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The word “living” is the Hebrew word “chay” meaning life or living. And the word translated “creature” is the Hebrew word “nephesh” meaning soul………….God tells us in Leviticus what/where the soul is.

Lev 17:11 For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh), for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh).

The word “life” in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh)

As per Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells (actually it’s the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells) that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…
When we die …the heart which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that individual person …. but is carried on through prodigy….. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul….as 1Corinthians 15:50 makes clear.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh).
God did not create soul life in man He made it in man it had already been created in Gen_1:21.

God is spirit ... a spirit has no form. I believe God created spirit in man and that it was spirit that died when Adam blew it…And it was spirit within us unconditionally that God made available by way of what Jesus Christ accomplished. I believe scripture supports that ….but specifically it does not state that, so take it for what it’s worth.


Brief history of Soul

Nimrod initiated the belief in Babylon. Later Zoroaster in the Assyrian-Babylon culture embrace the immortality of the soul. Daoism adopted the belief in the Chinese culture. And many of the ancient cultures accepted the idea of immaterial of the soul

The Greek philosopher Plato who lived from 427 - 347 B.C. believed that at death the body and soul were separated, but he said, “it was not the end of the soul”, he said that “the soul was indestructible”. He believed in the immortality of the soul and its eternal rewards and punishments after death. He was a student of Socrates 469 - 347 B.C. who believe the same… as did Pythagoras before him (570 – 490 B.C.)

Origen (185-254 A.D.) embraced Plato’s teaching and believed in the immortality of the soul. He believed that death the soul departed to an everlasting state of reward or everlasting punishment.

There were others, but Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 A.D. crystallized the doctrine of the immortality of the soul… he wrote that “the soul cannot be destroyed” in The Summa Theologica.


There is a long list of people who strung this unbiblical belief along until it became firmly entrenched in the religious doctrine…. Nowhere in the writings of man are their beliefs upheld by biblical scripture…

Brown-Driver-Briggs
I. בָּרָא53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic

probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow, but also

, create; Phoenician הברא CISi. 347 incisor, a trade involving cutting; Assyrian barû, make, create, COTGloss & Hpt KAT2Gloss 1 but dubious; Sabean ברא found, build, DHMZMG 1883, 413, synonym בנה; BaZA. 1888, 58, compare Assyrian banû, create, beget, with change of liquid; Aramaic בְּרָא,

, create) —
Qal Perfect Genesis 1:1 19t.; Imperfect יִבְרָא Genesis 1:21,27; Numbers 16:30; Infinitive בְּראֹ Genesis 5:1; Imperative בְּרָא Psalm 51:12; Participle בּוֺרֵא Isaiah 42:5 10t.; suffix בֹּרַאֲךָ Isaiah 43:1; בּוֺרְאֶיךָ Ecclesiastes 12:1; — shape, fashion, create, always of divine activity, with accusative of thing, seldom except in P and Isa2.

1 object heaven and earth Genesis 1:1; Genesis 2:3 (P) Isaiah 45:18 (twice in verse); mankind Genesis 1:27 (3 t. in verse); Genesis 5:1,2(P) Genesis 6:7 (J) Deuteronomy 4:32; Psalm 89:48; Isaiah 45:12; the host of heaven Isaiah 40:26; heavens Isaiah 42:5; ends of the earth Isaiah 40:28; north and south Psalm 89:13; wind Amos 4:13; the תנינים Genesis 1:21 (P).

2 the individual man Malachi 2:10 ("" father) Ecclesiastes 12:1; the smith and the waster Isaiah 54:16 (twice in verse); Israel as a nation Isaiah 43:15; Jacob Isaiah 43:1; the seed of Israel Isaiah 43:7.

Strong's Hebrew: 1254. בָּרָא (bara') -- choose

Genesis 1:21 Hebrew Text Analysis

 

[The Learner]

Here is where natural theology of mortal souls, becomes natural pagan spiritism and environmentalism, that teaches that all natural things, whether man or beast or tree or river, have spirit in them from the common air breathed on earth.

Natural theology says the same about all flesh and blood, but calls the air we breathe, the soul: it teaches the natural world has a soul breathed by all natural things therein.

It teaches the soul is the wind of the earth, that keeps the natural body alive by breathing it.

The soul is the created being of man, that breathes only the Spirit of Christ for life.

All nature is made mortal by Christ, including trees, grass, and bodies of birds, beasts, and man:

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

But only the soul of man is made in the image of God, which is immortal and righteous.

Sinning kills the soul spiritually, so that Christ no more dwells therein: the natural body of man continues, but their soul is dead as the brute beasts of the field, who have no soul nor Spirit of Christ, nor are they lightened by the light of Christ:

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Natural theology of mortal souls is willfully ignorant of what the Spirit says to the churches and souls of men.

They teach a lip-service to the spiritual things of God and the souls of men, so that man is made no different from beasts of the field, who all breathe the same natural air for life on earth, and they call it soul.

This natural theology of course is not from Christ, but from the prince and the power of the air, who makes himself the falsely created christ of natural soul theologians.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus is a better sacrifice for sin than the animals but the principle of Leviticus 17:11 stands as true for the animal sacrifice as it does for the Lord Jesus Christ

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

So it was with Jesus - his life was in his blood and that life was given to us to make atonement for our sins.

Now what happens when a Christian states "Jesus didn't actually die!"

Well, the Lords' own words in Matt 26:28

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

He either completely died in this offering of his blood, or his offering was a hoax and he pretended to suffer and die.

Either way, you have atonement; reconciliation and salvation, or you have a sham.

Scripture is clear...he died.

F2F

A sure proof of false teaching, is when they twist the teachings of others into absurdity, so that it must be on purpose and not a 'misunderstanding'.

No Christian says Jesus didn't die on the cross.

He just didn't obliterate and cease to exist, as nothing but dried flesh and bones in a grave.