new version of OSAS?

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The point remains, the gospel is not what you and I should do but is what God had done to save you and me.

The children of God are not citizens of this world, but their citizenship is in heaven. We are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. And so, since we will yet be brought home to heaven, we ought to walk in good works. Others say, by doing good works, we will be justified and be saved. But that is wrong, for we have already been saved. Those good works were prepared beforehand by God. He prepared them, exactly for the purpose that we should walk in them.

Let's look at the passage that brings confusion.

Turn with Me to EPHESIANS 2

Titus
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is How we...were given new life...[when you were dead in sin] (those born from above)

Now what you do with the new life is key
For we no longer have to be a slave to sin....when we have received our new nature,
The life giving Spirit.

Now.....watch what scripture says after receiving the Spirit....and Remember this also those that are led by the Spirit are sons of God.

for if you are living according to the [impulses of the] flesh, you are going to die. But if [you are living] by the [power of the Holy] Spirit you are habitually putting to death the sinful deeds of the body, you will [really] live forever. AMPLIFIED VERSION

Nothing there refutes the truth that the gospel is not what you and I should do but is what God had done to save you and me.

And neither does it refutes this part of ny post:

“The children of God are not citizens of this world, but their citizenship is in heaven. We are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. And so, since we will yet be brought home to heaven, we ought to walk in good works. Others say, by doing good works, we will be justified and be saved. But that is wrong, for we have already been saved. Those good works were prepared beforehand by God. He prepared them, exactly for the purpose that we should walk in them.”

Tong
R3744

 

[Tong2020]

I had to rethink...what He said.....and the way OSAS doctrine shaped His question.

The Gospel alone....I believe He is saying is what Jesus did alone...and in that thought I figure is He is saying we didn't die Jesus died....and if you believe this, that Jesus did it all....then you Do nothing.........why because Jesus did it all.....

Good that you consider rethinking.

But nope, you got that wrong.

What I said is plain, that the gospel is not what you and I should do but is what God had done to save you and me.

Let me share to you the contents of what I posted in another thread relative to this:

“The gospel is about what God had done for salvation, not about what one should do to be saved. For there is nothing that a man could do that would save himself. God is the Savior and man is the one who needs saving. For if there is something man can do to save himself, there was no need for God to do what He had done in Christ for salvation.

Let me explain myself a bit more. As with any news, it is no more of a report about what happened or is happening. When some news gets to the hearing of people, some understand it and others don’t. But either way, all only gets to believe or not. With regards the gospel, there is no difference in that respect. Now, obviously, what one understand the news is about and what it is, is only what he may or may not believe. However, there is a big difference with the gospel in some respect. Unlike any news, the gospel is one that is coming from God, and is spiritual or better yet, about God and the things of the Spirit of God. That being the nature of the gospel, the natural man can not know it, because it is spiritually discerned. He does not receive the gospel because it is foolishness to him. In other words, for one to understand the gospel, there is one thing that should take place first in and on the man. Something spiritual. And that is not something that he could do nor is his work, but God’s. I call that spiritual something as the quickening of the man’s spirit, which opens up his heart and spiritual eyes and ears.

Also, in my view, what the gospel says is not about something that one could avail or not by doing something, but is about something that one could only believe or not, concerning the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

Those whose spirit are quickened, their hearts, ears and eyes having been opened by God, receives faith from God, that eventually move them in the spirit, resulting to their willful acceptance of the gospel and sincerely believe it. As such, they are saved by God, by grace through faith.”

Hope that helps you understand me.

Tong
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[Tong2020]

Because Osasers start with Justication...
Any time they see the term saved it means heaven when you die...

They cannot see that you can be saved from different things...


For example......His death reconciled us....[meaning it brought us near to God] .......
This is where they Stop...

They cannot see how we are saved by His Life...concerning circumstances in this world...like the wrath.......of men?
But all through psalms it's about people who remain under His protection by doing His will.

Well, I don’t.

Regarding salvation, it all starts with God and ends with God.

Why fallen man need salvation from God is exactly because fallen man cannot save themselves from just about anything, from being corrupted by sin, from the power of death, and from the evils that is all around them.

The sacrificial death of Jesus Christ and His resurrection showed and accomplished a lot of things, not only reconciliation, but also forgiveness, redemption, freedom, justification, etc.

But as Jesus said you Must be born again...
Otherwise you cannot see the Kingdom
John 3:3

So Tong Trust Jesus......And I
believe ...your eyes will be open...

Rely on Him for everything

Thanks but no thanks. For I trust the Lord and had trusted Him decades ago, having quickened me then and given me faith, brought me to repentance, and converted me. Since then I was a changed man. In everything, in every aspect of life, He is now a part of, if not, the center of. It would take quite a volume of pages to tell you all about that, for it is about an experience that goes for thousands of days, hundred thousands of hours, millions of minutes, or at least a billion seconds.

Your trusting what He did as the Foundation ...
The true question....what will heaven be like for those who did not stay as close to Jesus now ? YOU THINK, Surely Heaven would be Hell for them..?

For

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Point is...because the foundation is Osas doctrine.....you skip over how we are saved in this life we now live.....Therefore all scripture seen must be filtered through their foundation...

Jesus didn't die so we didn't have to die....He died so we would follow Him....that is what that Baptism means...It's when you die to yourself you live.

God is our life source...Jesus Himself said if any man wants to follow me He must take up His cross.....

Every child of God have different experiences with God. I think and am convinced that no two have exactly the same experience.

<<<what will heaven be like for those who did not stay as close to Jesus now ? >>>
Few to no rewards, according to few to no fruits that they produced.

My foundation is Jesus Christ, not anything else, not OSAS or what have you think it is. Besides, there is not another foundation of salvation, except Jesus Christ.

<<<Jesus didn't die so we didn't have to die.>>>

Well, He died for me, and for a lot of good reasons. But regarding death, He died so I won’t be cast to hell and suffer the second death.

How about my bodily death? Well, if He comes today, I will not experience that either. If He will not come during my lifetime, then obviously my body dies. Not I, but the body of death wherein I still have. Jesus will later give me another body, yet not the same body, but one that is not corrupted and defiled. But until then, we all suffer in this body of death, while patiently waiting for His coming and change our bodies.

Tong
R3746

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need to worry about committing wilful sin.
.

You need to worry about eternal salvation by grace through FAITH and not of yourselves, it’s the gift of God.

I do not willfully reject to obey the gospel.

yunalso need to worry about the fact you water down the law. And are not trained by it. And stop accusing people who have been trained by it, who got on their knees and called out to God for his mercy.

 

[Cooper]

You need to worry about eternal salvation by grace through FAITH and not of yourselves, it’s the gift of God.

I do not willfully reject to obey the gospel.

yunalso need to worry about the fact you water down the law. And are not trained by it. And stop accusing people who have been trained by it, who got on their knees and called out to God for his mercy.

You still need to worry about wilful sin.
.

 

[Corlove13]

That is because we view the salvation of God differently. You view it as the work of God and yours. On the other hand, I view it as God’s work and I become his workmanship.

Familiar as they may, but only the words. And because most of the time it is quoted, isolated from context, it is taken to say something out of context. What we can’t do without Christ is bear fruit, fruit of the vine, that is Jesus Christ.

And one has to realize that, Jesus was not referring to things done apart from Him, such as carnal things or things of the flesh. Rather He is referring to the things concerning the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that is, about the things of the Spirit of God, such as faith, hope, and love.

I would not say that I understand perfectly the meaning of grace. But I do understand it according to what scriptures revealed about it.

Grace sure is favor from God given freely as God wills to people He chose to give grace. One good example is that of Noah, which God extended to his sons and their wives. Did Noah earn such grace? Did his sons and their wives earn such grace? Was there any effort on each of them to deserve and have such kind of grace?

Another is that of Abraham which extended to not only his immediate family, but even to all his posterity. Did Abraham earn such grace from God? Was there any effort on his part each to deserve and have such kind of grace? More so regarding his posterity who at the time were yet in his loins, so to speak. Certainly, his posterity earn not nor had any effort whatsoever to deserve having such grace.

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


.

TongYes grace is not opposed to effort, not even to works. However, one must not make the mistake of taking that to mean that grace is obtained by means of OUR effort or works
R3740

I thought about responding....but you really need to meditate on what has already been said...peace and blessings.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You still need to worry about wilful sin.
.

At least I admit mine

The first part in healing is to admit, we can not confess until we first admit.

When will you admit yours? Or will you keep pushing them off as oopsies. or I did not mean it or it was an accident.

 

[Corlove13]

What does God tell Abraham

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, “Fear not, Abram. I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward.”

I am thy exceeding great reward....

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
In a word, death

Death of?

Where

When

Well, I think we are going to have a problem here, if you are asking that question. For it seems that we do not have the same view of death.

So, perhaps I’ll just give you one, what the bible calls second death.

Tong
R3747

 

[Corlove13]

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that he is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." ..

 

[Tong2020]

HA... I quoted myself.... because.... oh my GOODNESS.... just when I thought my day couldn't get any better.... I went for a wee walk to the grocery store.... and I stopped in at the dollar store first and oh my goodness........ WAIT for it....
I bought myself an INSULATED lunch bag...... Can you believe it y'all??? It just doesn't get any better than this...

So...... after I share this unbelievable testimony....I am going to make myself a lunch... put it in my INSULATED brand new lunch bag... make some more coffee... and fill up my BRAND NEW thermos.... with the cute little clicky top.... and I am off to the beach for the rest of the day.... while I meditate and ponder on the AMAZING GOODNESS of GOD.... I shall sit in my most amazing new RED beach chair.... read my bible... and celebrate the fact that I am tremendously loved... and cherished by ALMIGHTY GOD.... This is something that legalism has ROBBED me of for all my Christian life... This JOY.... this overflowing JOY has been traded in for all my mourning... all my sorrow and suffering... and oddly... I do not remember one ounce of pain that I have ever experienced...

All the above to say to the LEGALISTS here.... It is this JOY that your doctrine has ROBBED me from... It is this CONFIDENCE and ASSURANCE in my SALVATION that you all have tried to STEAL from me... over and over again... It is this JOY that floods my soul... that I am JUST NOW beginning to feel... BECAUSE GOD has finally been able to convince me that it's TRUE..... I am SAFE in HIM... I belong to HIM... I have been purchased by HIM... and I shall REST IN HIM.

Boy oh boy..... ain't NO BODY going to steal my JOY!!!!!!!!!!

Praise and thanks be to God!

That really calls for some celebration! Let’s celebrate the goodness of the Lord for @Addy, all of us who, like her, have entered God’s rest and are resting in the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

I feel your joy and peace, @Addy. Thank you for sharing that to me and to others here. Spirit does travel in great speed unlike any, that it reaches me here who is miles and miles away from you, the very moment I read your post.

Tong
R3748

 

[Corlove13]

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Gal 6

 

[Addy]

Praise and thanks be to God!

That really calls for some celebration! Let’s celebrate the goodness of the Lord for @Addy, all of us who like her, have entered God’s rest and are resting in the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

I feel your joy and peace, @Addy. Thank you for sharing that with me. Spirit does travel in great speed unlike any, that it reaches me here who is miles and miles away from you, the very moment I read your post.

I had the most BEAUTIFUL day yesterday @Tong2020 ... It was perhaps the first time... in my entire life that I felt a JOY that surpasses all understanding. I am 58 years old.
In these weeks of frustration through out this thread ... I found myself trying to explain why I believe in Grace over legalism... One particular person here seemed convinced that I was condoning and embracing sin because I do not find it necessary or even my business to CORRECT random sinners that I do not know....

No matter how many times I told this person... I DO NOT CONDONE sin of ANY KIND... It is BAD... ALL of IT.... I was painted with the brush of ABUSER of GRACE... and labelled one who is DECEIVED. This topic is one of life and death... TRULY.... and not even for the obvious reason of heaven or hell... Legalism oppresses... suppresses and depresses those who bite into it...

I have been sarcastic at times... and funny at other times... but the fact of the matter is.... those who teach this message of HAVING to BE GOOD and DO GOOD... breath DEATH and JUDGMENT upon each other.

Thanks to BB and His Life... I was able to actually CLIMB out of the final nagging whispers of doubt that I am secure... and that I do have it RIGHT... which for me simply means.... RESTING in the FULL ASSURANCE of HIS Promises. I am SAVED because of HIS finished work on the Cross... My behaviour after this fact is my offering to HIM... and it is comes from GRATITUDE of knowing... yet not understanding this unbelievable cost to which my soul was purchased... That HE would die a terrible death for me.... little old nothing me... WOW.... There are no words to ever get my head around such a thought... and that alone... is what WE need to be meditating on.

We are all works in progress and sanctification is sacred ground... sadly... some believers do not give this due CAUTION.

 

[Cooper]

At least I admit mine

The first part in healing is to admit, we can not confess until we first admit.

When will you admit yours? Or will you keep pushing them off as oopsies. or I did not mean it or it was an accident.

Grace is NOT a licence to sin. YOUR erroneous preaching.
.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you admit that man cannot save himself from the power of death?

If you do, why is it then that with regards the salvation of God, you seem to say that you are saved because you did something?

As I was telling you, the gospel is about what God had done to save you and me.

Do you admit that man cannot save himself from the power of death?

Jesus finished the work, agreed? You and I couldn't nor could do it...
Jesus is the one that died, was buried and arose and lives forever......not us, agreed?

Agreed.

Alone, He is our Deliverer[salvation]noun

Yet

Unless you believe you are not delivered by Him.....do you agree?

Not totally.

The matter of believing, who do you say worked that out in you, that you believed?

For it is impossible to please God without faith
the one that comes to Him must believe that He is and is a rewarder to them that diligently seek Him.

Agree.

Do you believe belief is not neccessary?
If not read EPHESIANS 1:13

It was after that, "ye believed, ye were sealed"
Meaning they trusted "a whom"

Necessary for what and for whom?

Faith comes from God. It is given by God to them whom He saves. For it is through faith that God saves the man. In that sense, it is necessary.

Believe and trust are things we do? Do you agree?....Even if God Gave us the abilty... we still must exercise it.....agreed?

Yes, believing and trusting are things we do. But that does not mean, by doing those, you get to say you saved yourself. Rather, by doing those, shows that God had saved you.

You get stuck because of the passage
EPHESIANS 2:8 , how you view it through Osas and how you see grace....but you see we are not saved through anything we have done, we are saved through what Christ has done when we believed..and continue to believe, rely on, put confidence in..

Sorry, but I ain’t stuck. If in any that I am stuck, I am stuck on Jesus Christ. Not in OSAS or NOSAS or whatever.

I agree with you that we are not saved through anything we have done, for we are saved by God’s grace, through faith in Jesus Christ.

When it is speaking of works, It means by direct effort by our natural abilities in the flesh to earn.

The first saved..Eph 2:5....is being brought from death to life....For God is not the God of the dead but the living....those who were born from above were made alive WITH Christ,

were given the promised Spirit.
So He saved them from the Penalty of Sin..eternal seperation....agreed?

I could agree to that.

But He saved those from the penalty of sin so they can live by His life. [V7]

Let me say that another way He saved us from the Penalty of Sin so we can be saved by His life.

I do not read that out of the passage.

Your last statement is confusing even, if not, does not really make sense.

Your question might be How are we saved by His life. Remember the passages, about the life giving Spirit, we have a new nature....and no longer enslaved to the old nature
Recall the passage in Romans, who shall save(deliver) us from this body of death?

Answer
Jesus our Lord...when we rely (believe,trust, put confidence in) on Him as Lord. When we are led by the Spirit ..we renew our minds with right thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs. RECALL the passage I will give them a new heart and put my Spirit within them so that they will be careful to obey my statutes....Another words we are becoming new...our character is changing....so when your character changes you naturally do what is in your heart.

Nope, I have no such question.

Therefore reliance on Christ is how we become like Him.

That is the grace of God that bringeth Salvation...that teaches us we should live soberly , righteous and Godly In this present world. I think that is in Titus.

Those who are born from above....is who I am speaking about.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10, “For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

So remember we Have His Spirit now....agreed?
We do something

because it is what we do with Christ.....remember in EPHESIANS 2 when we were quickened together "with" Christ.
But it is not to earn what has already been given to save us....
It is How we have a relationship...or learn to relate to the Father by a relationship with the son.
That is the Life that is in His Son
Recall the passage, I give to them eternal life and this life is in the son
Recall the only definition That I know of, of the meaning of Eternal life-which is to "know"the only true God and Jesus Christ who He has sent.
The word "know" means intimately...like Adam knew Eve

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal Life is through Jesus....

This is hard to write on my phone....I hope it answered your questions

In all of that, I think you are confused about the gospel of the salvation of God and the christian life.

I too only use my phone.

Tong
R3749

 

[Tong2020]

Also @Tong2020 Jesus became the Source of Salvation....

When your foundation is Trusting something He did to secure heaven when you die....

You will not understand scriptures..

Because...then one tries to fit passages of regeneration into Their justification....passages.

But again you must Trust Jesus....for In Him there is forgiveness.

When you trust what He did for heaven when you die...it interprets as this: Jesus did it all so I do nothing....I believed and I received it all...

Then when you read passages they must fit into that box....Sorry it is wrong....and @Tong you will have to unravel that thinking....Trust Jesus as Lord and say over everything...

And it will take you to humble yourself from what you thought you knew....

Many OSASers are caught in legalism...

It is their belief system they must believe (do) that saves them...Many are like the pharisees, yet can't see it yet.....Trust Jesus rely on Him, He is in control.....

<<<When you trust what He did for heaven when you die...it interprets as this: Jesus did it all so I do nothing....I believed and I received it all...>>>

Not my interpretation, yours.

This is my interpretation. God is Him who saves me. I am saved by Him by His grace. He had done it by His Son Jesus Christ. He had quickened me, opened my eyes and ears, and given me a new heart, a contrite and repentant heart, brought me to repentance, had given me faith, faith through which He saves me. See what God does and works in me to save me? And me, none at all. After all of that, what then? What else, but spend my life with God, doing the good works which God had prepared for me to do, to walk in them. That is what I am supposed to do, not do nothing. How can I do nothing when God had done everything to save me? Can’t imagine doing nothing.

Tong
R3750

 

[Tong2020]

The main question is:

Test and evaluate yourselves to see whether you are in the faith and living your lives as [committed] believers. Examine yourselves [not me]! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves [by an ongoing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test and are rejected as counterfeit?

2 Cor 13:5

Beautiful. It’s either one is genuine or a counterfeit.

Tong
R3751

 

[Tong2020]

If you are not going to sin knowingly and deliberately, and stay with the teaching of the Saviour to whom you owe your salvation, then you are no different from other Christians who seek to live a life that is pleasing to God. The trouble is, I have heard this from several people, that you reject any and all laws. So what gives?

Forget about sinning. It’s not for the Christian.

What laws are you referring to in your last statement that you heard from some people @Addy reject?

Tong
R3752

 

[Tong2020]

Children obey their parents and a born again Christian is a child of God, so we need to obey the Lord.

But, it appears to me from what people say, that you preach a rebellious lifestyle. How do you rationalise this?
.

Who are those people who say that about @Eternally Grateful? And why do you even seem to believe such even while @Eternally Grateful explicitly denied that and preach the opposite?

Tong
R3753

 

[Tong2020]

so your sin by accident? Is this what you are saying, You do not sin you make oopsies..

Now if people are living in sin. as the world. Then how could they be saved? John said they have never seen or known God.

me?

I admit my sin. And yes. They are my fault. I willingly sin. knowing the consequences. We ALL so. (to say you do not. You are deceiving yourself)

Well, one who not knowingly commits sin suggest either that one have little knowledge of what is sin and what is not sin, or being not in the right mind at the time, perhaps some other reason who knows what. It happens and is real to the Christian. Some call them sins of ignorance, of omission, or more generally, unintentional sins. Nonetheless they are sins.

Tong
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