Nondenominational Christianity

[CoreIssue]

Lol.....Read what I wrote...not what you think I wrote....

I thought Christmas was the celebration of CHRIST(mas) birth?

Is it wrong to celebrate a birthday?

Mary

But the Catholic reasoning for it it is very wrong.

For others it is totally inaccurate.

Regardless, it is not a holy day. None of the supposed holy days are actually holy days. There are none in the New Testament.

 

[brakelite]

Well, I have a few problems wih this. First off... Who is Nicholas Sayers? I did a google search on him and no one popped up as any kind of historian. Not meaning to throw any shade on him.... But who is he that I should listen to him?

Second, when you search on the origin of the word "easter", Alexander Hislop isn't the name that first pops up. In fact, you have to refine the search to force it to come up.

Who's name DOES come up is some guy named Bede. Bede was a Catholic SAINT who lived in modern day Britian around 700 AD. Hislop lived in the 1800's. Bede was the one who first claimed Easter comes from a germanic Goddes named "oestre" or whatever...

Third... Every word origin I've seen comes up with something other than "resurrection". Dawn... Spring... Even sunrise. But not resurrection.

I've actually read Hislop.... Not recently, ao I don't remember... It would be interedting to see if Hislop references Bebe.

So if Hislop is idiotic and moronic, what do we make of this Catholic Saint Bede who actually said it first?

P.S. i found the Sayers article. He goes by "Nick Sayers". Its important to properly quote the author. I don't fault BOL for this oversight... But I couldn't find that quote BOL mentioned. It may be there, but I couldn't find it.

I still wonder who Nick Sayers is. Ultimately it matters only if its true, not his credentials.... UNLESS you like to hype credentials.

In Sayers long article, I never see one reference to Saint Bede. He takes great care to try to injure Hislop, but never mentions the earliest reference (being the Catholic Saint Bede).

His route to showing that Easter means ressurection in German ia like going from Los Angeles to San Francisco via Pheonix, Dallas, Memphis, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, Salt Lake City and then San Fran.... I read the article... I am sorry and I mean no disrespect, but I can't take it seriously.

Here is the article.... Maybe some others can take it seriously:

Why we should not Passover Easter

Excellent reply... You did as BoL demanded... Your homework. A+ . I don't know if Hislop citedf Bede but I do remember Hislop used and cited multiple historians throughout his work, both Catholic and z Protestant, and some from a time before there was either Catholic or Protestant.

 

[FHII]

When a person writes a supposedly historical account – they are held to the standard of history, linguistics and archeology that they are writing about. Hislop wrote things in his book that are simply fairy tales and outright lies.

For example, his entire point about the “IHS” on the Eucharist being an acronym for “Isis, Horus and Seth” is an ASININE charge - and EASILY debunkable. EVERY credible historian knows that it is simply an abbreviation for “Ihsous”, the Latin spelling of Jesus's name.

When a “historian” resorts to LYING in his research – the rest of his work is suspect. Woodrow and many other scholars have picked his book apart and listed Hislop’s lies, myths and fairy tales. YOU simply refuse to admit that he was wrong because you don’t want to LOSE an argument.

That’s YOUR problem – NOT mine . . .

Finally - when you support anti-Catholic manure like that of Alexander Hislop - you ARE anti-Catholic.

What you are failing to acknowledge is that it is one thing to accuse someone of lying but credible historians offer evidence. Grabbe and the two others who quoted him don't do anything to disprove that Hislop made up the word origin of Easter . in fact its easy to prove he didn't make it up when THE CATHOLIC SAINT AND DOCTOR OF THE CHURH ST. BEDE said the same thin 1100 years before Hislop did.

I haven't given my opinion on Hislop other than I don't believe he made up the mythology about Easter and the origin of the word. So your labeling me anti-catholic based on how much I agree with Hislop have as much substance as Grabbe's attack on Hislop: very little! I've actually been as nuetral as humamly possible over this matter. Not that I mind you calling me anti catholic. I guess I will go sit in the naughty corner with the Catholic Saint Bede.... Since we both agree...

 

[Enoch111]

I've actually been as neutral as humanly possible over this matter.

One cannot be neutral when assessing the doctrines and practices of the RCC. If they do not reflect Bible truth, then they have been derived from pagan Rome. And the historical evidence is clear cut.

While the historian Philip Schaff wants to sit on the fence and says there should not be a sweeping condemnation of the heathenism which crept into the Catholic Church, he is duty bound to report it, and he does so very *charmingly* (if that is the correct word):

In the Nicene age the church laid aside her lowly servant-form, and put on a splendid imperial garb. She exchanged the primitive simplicity of her cultus for a richly colored multiplicity. She drew all the fine arts into the service of the sanctuary, and began her sublime creations of Christian architecture, sculpture, painting, poetry, and music. In place of the pagan temple and altar arose everywhere the stately church and the chapel in honor of Christ, of the Virgin Mary, of martyrs and saints. The kindred ideas of priesthood, sacrifice, and altar became more fully developed and more firmly fixed, as the outward hierarchy grew. The mass, or daily repetition of the atoning sacrifice of Christ by the hand of the priest, became the mysterious centre of the whole system of worship.

The number of church festivals was increased; processions, and pilgrimages, and a multitude of significant and superstitious customs and ceremonies were introduced. The public worship of God assumed, if we may so speak, a dramatic, theatrical character, which made it attractive and imposing to the mass of the people, who were as yet incapable, for the most part, of worshipping God in spirit and in truth. It was addressed rather to the eye and the ear, to feeling and imagination, than to intelligence and will. In short, we already find in the Nicene age almost all the essential features of the sacerdotal, mysterious, ceremonial, symbolical cultus of the Greek and Roman churches of the present day.

This enrichment and embellishment of the cultus was, on one hand, a real advance, and unquestionably had a disciplinary and educational power, like the hierarchical organization, for the training of the popular masses. But the gain in outward appearance and splendor was balanced by many a loss in simplicity and spirituality. While the senses and the imagination were entertained and charmed, the heart not rarely returned cold and hungry. Not a few pagan habits and ceremonies, concealed under new names, crept into the church, or were baptized only with water, not with the fire and Spirit of the gospel. It is well known with what peculiar tenacity a people cleave to religious usages; and it could not be expected that they should break off in an instant from the traditions of centuries. Nor, in fact, are things which may have descended from heathenism, to be by any means sweepingly condemned.

Quoted from History of the Christian Church

 

[Taken]

I am a non denominational bible only Christian. I reject all denominations and their creeds.

Christ and the apostles never encourage such things. In fact, Paul condemned it.

So I cannot the protestant or a catholic. I am a Christian.

Society is in love with hyphenated people. No hyphen here.

What are you?

A Convert In Christ the Lord Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

"your labeling me anti-catholic"

A Catholic is a person who is bound to believe every word the Catholic Church teaches.

Some Catholic persons enlarge that to include every word they, the Catholic person, says.

A Catholic person who proclaims another person to be "anti-Catholic", is declaring FOR THE OTHER PERSON, that they are "against all Catholic persons".

It's a simple tactic, to display an egotistical exalting of themselves above you.

Nothing to fret about...False testimonies shall be burned.

The Truth is; greater is He that is IN you than he that is in the world.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Staying out of the IHS issue. I will point out the Eagle on the Pope's staff is a pagan Roman Legion god

His title and garb are also pagan Roman.

The College of Cardinals comes from Roman pagan College of Pontiffs.

Holy water, prayer beads, Mary worship, praying to Catholic saints and a lot more also come from pagan sources.

That Big Stone in front of the Vatican is an Egyptian phallic symbol.

Easter is the absorbed worship of Ishtar into Catholicism.

Christmas also comes from paganism.

Just don't want anybody to get the mistaken idea Catholicism is actually Christian.

In fact they used to worship the sun as the son.

The Bible, especially in revelations has no love of Catholicism.

It ALWAYS cracks me up when ignorant anti-Catholics like YOU post these laundry lists of unsubstantiated manure against the Catholic Church. ANYBODY can make stupid claims like the ones YOU just made. PROVING them, however, is another story.

I could tell you that I read about Martin Luther and John Calvin being gay lovers who once agreed on everything theologically. It was only after they broke up that they began to preach vastly different doctrines. I don’t have one shred of evidence for this – but truth doesn’t matter to ignorant people like YOU anyway . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

I am not anti-Catholic, meaning people in the Catholic Church. I am anti-Catholicism, meaning the cult religion.

 

[CoreIssue]

It ALWAYS cracks me up when ignorant anti-Catholics like YOU post these laundry lists of unsubstantiated manure against the Catholic Church. ANYBODY can make stupid claims like the ones YOU just made. PROVING them, however, is another story.

I could tell you that I read about Martin Luther and John Calvin being gay lovers who once agreed on everything theologically. It was only after they broke up that they began to preach vastly different doctrines. I don’t have one shred of evidence for this – but truth doesn’t matter to ignorant people like YOU anyway . . .

There are tons of proof out there about the pagan origins of Catholicism.

Start with this list

Pagan Roman pontiff Maximus. College of Pontiffs at DuckDuckGo

 

[BreadOfLife]

What you are failing to acknowledge is that it is one thing to accuse someone of lying but credible historians offer evidence. Grabbe and the two others who quoted him don't do anything to disprove that Hislop made up the word origin of Easter . in fact its easy to prove he didn't make it up when THE CATHOLIC SAINT AND DOCTOR OF THE CHURH ST. BEDE said the same thin 1100 years before Hislop did.

I haven't given my opinion on Hislop other than I don't believe he made up the mythology about Easter and the origin of the word. So your labeling me anti-catholic based on how much I agree with Hislop have as much substance as Grabbe's attack on Hislop: very little! I've actually been as nuetral as humamly possible over this matter. Not that I mind you calling me anti catholic. I guess I will go sit in the naughty corner with the Catholic Saint Bede.... Since we both agree...

Why do you keep dishonestly referring to Bede as a “Catholic Saint”?
He was NEVER canonized – and he certainly was not infallible. He was entitled to an occasional mistake.

Secondly – I haven’t listed ALL of the commentaries by Grabbe or Woodrow or anybody else. Just the highlights. This is an internet forum – NOT a university course.

Finally – I gave you a list of LIES, MYTHS and FALSEHOODS that were concocted by Hislop himself. Every other inaccuracy in his book is HIS responsibility because HE wrote the book. He should have researched everything in his book instead of simply passing on lies and inaccuracies.

EVERY other scholar is held to that standard – so WHY would you give Hislop ANY leeway??

 

[CoreIssue]

Why do you keep dishonestly referring to Bede as a “Catholic Saint”?
He was NEVER canonized – and he certainly was not infallible. He was entitled to an occasional mistake.

Secondly – I haven’t listed ALL of the commentaries by Grabbe or Woodrow or anybody else. Just the highlights. This is an internet forum – NOT a university course.

Finally – I gave you a list of LIES, MYTHS and FALSEHOODS that were concocted by Hislop himself. Every other inaccuracy in his book is HIS responsibility because HE wrote the book. He should have researched everything in his book instead of simply passing on lies and inaccuracies.

EVERY other scholar is held to that standard – so WHY would you give Hislop ANY leeway??

I don't know about this guy to get involved in this conversation.

But I will ask you why you're so busy attacking others without going after the centuries of lies and crimes by the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[BreadOfLife]

There are tons of proof out there about the pagan origins of Catholicism.

Start with this list

Pagan Roman pontiff Maximus. College of Pontiffs at DuckDuckGo

Your article is nonsense.

First of all – “Pontifex Maximus” simply beams “Greatest Bridge builder”. It DOESN’T mean ”Greatest PRIEST”.
“Ponte” is Latin for BRIDGE – not Priest, Einstein.

As for the College of Cardinals – it didn’t even exist until after the 12th century. Besides – it is not structured like the “College of Pontiffs” that you mentioned. The College of Cardinals is divided into three orders: Cardinal Bishops, Cardinal Priests and Cardinal Deacons – and is presided over by the Dean - NOT the Pope.

So much for stupid, baseless accusations . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't know about this guy to get involved in this conversation.

But I will ask you why you're so busy attacking others without going after the centuries of lies and crimes by the Roman Catholic Church?

Such as??

 

[BreadOfLife]

It isn't his birthday. Christ was probably born in September.

Catholics adopted the festival of Saturnalia and called it Christmas.

More of your anti-historical manure.
It's NO WONDER your debate site died . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

More of your anti-historical manure.
It's NO WONDER your debate site died . . .

CTZ Is not dead. This month so far it said 1128 unique visitors. Counting repeat visits 3358.

Yep that is down from when it used to have over 15,000 visits a month.

But this site is way down on visits and active users well. As is others, many of which are gone.
And many have merged with other boards to stay alive.

That is not a condemnation of my site or this one, just another sign of the apostasy.

Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Especially when the fact is Catholicism is shrinking.

Do you ever actually check out facts before you start when you're diatribes? Of course not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

CTZ Is not dead. This month so far it said 1128 unique visitors. Counting repeat visits 3358.

Yep that is down from when it used to have over 15,000 visits a month.

But this site is way down on visits and active users well. As is others, many of which are gone.
And many have merged with other boards to stay alive.

That is not a condemnation of my site or this one, just another sign of the apostasy.

Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Especially when the fact is Catholicism is shrinking.

Do you ever actually check out facts before you start when you're diatribes? Of course not.

Not dead - but it's on Life Support . . .

You came here looking for recruits for your failed forum - trying to seduce them away with provocative challenges and idiotic claims.
NOBODY took the bait . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

You came here looking for recruits for your failed forum - trying to seduce them away with provocative challenges and idiotic claims.
NOBODY took the bait . . .

I am retired and have for decades shared the Bible with others.

No, we do not have a lot of active discussion. But a website can be more than that. It can be an information source as well.

All you do is spew venom. You attack non-Catholics as if Catholicism is the only one with the right to speak and the only possessor of truth. You are so far from the truth I don't know if you're capable of seeing it.

If even one lurker comes to God by reading my website that is a victory.

The site has had its victories. But all you want to see is failure by anything non-Catholics.

You are a sad person and in desperate need of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am retired and have for decades shared the Bible with others.

No, we do not have a lot of active discussion. But a website can be more than that. It can be an information source as well.

All you do is spew venom. You attack non-Catholics as if Catholicism is the only one with the right to speak and the only possessor of truth. You are so far from the truth I don't know if you're capable of seeing it.

If even one lurker comes to God by reading my website that is a victory.

The site has had its victories. But all you want to see is failure by anything non-Catholics.

You are a sad person and in desperate need of God.

Ummmmm, you forget that YOU are the one who came HERE picking fights and challenging people to go to YOUR failed site to argue.
I didn’t go to YOUR site looking for anti-Catholics – YOU came here.

Your hypocrisy is astounding . . .

 

[Marymog]

It isn't his birthday. Christ was probably born in September.

Catholics adopted the festival of Saturnalia and called it Christmas.

Around 204AD it was written by Hippolytus of Rome that “the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was eight days before the Kalends of January, the fourth day [i.e., Wednesday], while Augustus was in his forty-second year in his commentary on Daniel 4:23:3. The Kalends was the first day of the month. Eight days before January 1 is December 25.

 

[gadar perets]

Around 204AD it was written by Hippolytus of Rome that “the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was eight days before the Kalends of January, the fourth day [i.e., Wednesday], while Augustus was in his forty-second year in his commentary on Daniel 4:23:3. The Kalends was the first day of the month. Eight days before January 1 is December 25.

Actually, 8 days before January 1 is December 24. Also, 204 years was plenty of time for the false belief that Messiah was born on December 25 to creep in.