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FollowHim

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As I pointed out earlier only those who harden their hearts towards God after receiving salvation are in jeopardy of losing their salvation.
I would add to that those who are fruitless.
As far as fruit goes it is the outflow of our hearts, and our actions.
Some confuse this with converts and witnessing, which is the responsibility of each sinner who repents or not.
 

DoveSpirit05

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You tell someone u care about dem and they just high tail it out of here, dis is wat the world has come 2, we really are in the last days!
 

CharismaticLady

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There's worse ideas taught with it though, like there's never ever anymore need to confess future sins to Jesus and ask Him forgiveness, because they're told we cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus.

Calvinism doesn't teach we cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus. You have that confused with those teaching 1 John 3:9. Calvinism doesn't teach that, they teach 1 John 1:8. What you may have heard them say, is that our "past, present and future" sins are already forgiven. That's not true either. Only our past sins are forgiven.

1 John 3:9 has to do with being born again with the divine spirit that doesn't commit willful sins of lawlessness (1 John 3:4) because of the seed of the Father (the Holy Spirit) in us.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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If we're saved permanently on earth after being born again then why does the bible say in phil 2:12 you have 2 work out ur salvation wiv fear and trembling. The race is not over yet theirs many hurdles 2 climb, many trials and tribulations you have to go through. eccl 3:12 1 peter 4:12.

Jesus said ull be persecuted 4 my names sake!! are u being persecuted? he said the world will hate you! are u being hated by the world? its not a picnic people so get this foolish Calvinism teaching out of ur heads. you have 2 cross the finish line 1st, its like walking a tight rope, jesus said matthew 10:22 those dat endure 2 the end will be truly saved not those dat are born again will be truly saved there and then.

Once born of God always born of God...question remains of work it out with fear and trembling ...are we deceived with a false assurance in that which passes away and is outward and no real strength at all. Once born of God always born of God ...is the strength to fulfill the Spiritual commands of the promise Land and to keep His sayings ...but “once born of God always born of God” lacks the strength to endure to the finish. Is it born of the Spirit, or not? Can’t have it both ways in boasting of tasting of that good word and the power of the world to come that moves mountains ...then that resurrection power able to move mountains fizzles out before the finish. Saying that born of Spirit, fizzles out. Calling a terrifying injustice in that which is born of the Spirit, can’t finish. Which is it...power to keep the spiritual commandments looking good before men yet loses power to finish, or not? No where does the Word say that which is born of God ...fizzles out but the opposite in that which is born of God is what and ALL which remains. It is that outward man who faints. He came to give substance not the lack of it. Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
 

Mayflower

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These parables were not meant to weaken the eternal security of the believer but to have all who *profess* Christ to examine themselves, and determine whether they are in fact in Christ, and possess the Holy Spirit. Indeed Paul says that we are to examine ourselves, whether or not we are in the faith, and whether Christ is in us (2 Cor 13:5).

The five foolish virgins which had no oil at the coming of Christ for His Bride were outwardly professing Christians to whom Christ would say *I never knew you*. Otherwise they could not have been shut out of His presence.

The same with the wicked servant. Children of God are not called *wicked* after they are saved. But if they practice wickedness after they claim to be Christians, they are obviously not saved.

No genuine believer who has repented and believed on Christ, and received Him as Lord and Savior, can ever lose his or her salvation. They have been supernaturally born again, and supernaturally placed or *baptized into* the Body of Christ, having received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That is why I say that the OP is *clueless* -- ignorant about the true meaning of salvation.

Thanks. This clears it up some. What does going out to buy and sale to get more oil represent? My guess would be more time to hear the Word to come to salvation. But what is unclear to me is if they were able to come back, did they have the oil. Maybe the oil is more spiritual discernment to come to salvation the right way. Like by the time they found the right way through Christ Jesus, it was too late. Ive been trying to understand this parable for awhile now.
 
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Ezra

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You know Enoch,,,
Every verse you've posted could be countered with a different verse.

The thing is this: We don't lose salvation...it's that we don't want it anymore.
If we abandon JESUS, who is the LIFE GIVER, then we will certainly no longer be assured of salvation.

If HE was necessary for salvation...then we must hold on to HIM.
If we need FAITH to be saved and we lose that faith...
Are we still saved?

Shall be saved: Sure. Jesus said IF we enter through HIM, we shall be saved. HE is necessary for salvation.

Life more Abundant: Yes. If we live with Christ and IN CHRIST,,,we do have life more abundant.
What if we stop living IN CHRIST?

The Sheep: Of course Jesus knows His sheep and we listen to His voice.
What if we stop listening to His voice?
Are we still His sheep?

Eternal Life: Jesus is the giver of eternal life.
Do we still have eternal life if we abandon Jesus? The GIVER of eternal life....

Being Plucked out of God's hand: No one can pluck us out of the hand of God...not even satan (except in indirect ways)...but, as they say, we can sure walk out by our own free will.


We did not lose free will when we became saved.....
We can still decide to abandon God.

Two verses,,,if you could explain them:

Colossians 1:21-23
John 15:5-6
Eternal Life: Jesus is the giver of eternal life.
Do we still have eternal life if we abandon Jesus? The GIVER of eternal life....
if one totally abandons i doubt they was ever saved.. i have yet to meet one who has totally abandoned. problem of all this is we dont know if/when one can become alienated from Christ. we can only speculate through scriptures
 
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Ezra

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Thanks. This clears it up some. What does going out to buy and sale to get more oil represent? My guess would be more time to hear the Word to come to salvation. But what is unclear to me is if they were able to come back, did they have the oil. Maybe the oil is more spiritual discernment to come to salvation the right way. Like by the time they found the right way through Christ Jesus, it was too late. Ive been trying to understand this parable for awhile now.
the foolish was not ready/saved they wanted some of the wise oil that is why they was foolish
 
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Mayflower

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the foolish was not ready/saved they wanted some of the wise oil that is why they was foolish

Guess I am not understanding what the oil is. If it is the Holy Spirit, they had the Holy Spirit to begin with, but didnt have enough?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Don’t take the Lord’s Name in vain: He said all the Father had given Him was kept and He lost none ...EXCEPT the Son of prediction so scripture might be fulfilled. That meant ALL...except the Son of prediction. Nowhere does scripture say He(Christ) lost those in Him ...but it is spoken and declared all in Him made(makes) it....enduring to “it is finished.” The question seems to be WHO are in Him...the word tells us ...all except the Son of perdition that scripture be fulfill. All but the “son of prediction” make it to “it is finished.” To say that which is born of the Spirit and of God falls short of the finish...is denying what He said in declaring “all in Him” endure to “it is finished. To take the Lord’s Name and claim it is the resurrected power to walk in the Spirit of God to fulfill the commandment and sayings of God ...and then turn around and deny all in Him get to “it is finished” makes God a liar. That which is born of flesh does not inherit the kingdom of God...’except’ the Son of prediction is that which is born of flesh...and ENDS at the cross. we need to be careful in taking His Name “in Vain” and saying it is the power to walk in the Spirit and power to keep His commands ...yet the Spirit and that which is born of the Spirit and power...all born of and in Him never make it to “it is finished.”

Taking the Lord’s Name in vain: claiming the resurrection power of the Spirit for oneself to “walk in the Spirit” to keep the commands because it suits our own imagine ...THEN turning around and denying the Resurrection power of the Spirit when again...it suits man more to say “man keeps and maintains” something Christ kept and keeps by the resurrection Spirit.. He said “it is finished.” All in Him get to “it is finished.” Except the Son of prediction...that has to wake you up. Don’t take the Lord’s Name in vain whenever it suits you...is His resurrection Spirit Power ...or not?
 

Davy

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Calvinism doesn't teach we cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus. You have that confused with those teaching 1 John 3:9. Calvinism doesn't teach that, they teach 1 John 1:8. What you may have heard them say, is that our "past, present and future" sins are already forgiven. That's not true either. Only our past sins are forgiven.

1 John 3:9 has to do with being born again with the divine spirit that doesn't commit willful sins of lawlessness (1 John 3:4) because of the seed of the Father (the Holy Spirit) in us.

I haven't been pointing to Calvinists. Anyone can misinterpret 1 John 3:9 like I was saying, and I've already had conversations with some (that didn't say they were Calvinists) on this forum that use 1 John 3:9 to mean that all future sin is forgiven, even before it is committed, which is not what John meant at all.
 
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Zachary

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Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
It is not of ourselves that we are made righteous.
It IS of ourselves that we remain righteous.

You're all hung up on the initial salvation experience,
but you really need to focus on the process of salvation
... going all the way to the end.

One's salvation needs to be maintained.

“Little children, let no one deceive you.
He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous … In this the children of God
and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God,
NOR is he who does NOT love his brothers and sisters.”
(1 John 3:7-10)

And there are dozens of other NT verses!
.
 

Stranger

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Guess I am not understanding what the oil is. If it is the Holy Spirit, they had the Holy Spirit to begin with, but didnt have enough?

You might take into consideration that this parable of the 10 virgins is not about the Church, the Bride of Christ. I take it as being about the Millennial Kingdom to come, and the Church is already with Christ. This judgment of the foolish virgins pertains to those on earth at that time and their entrance into that Kingdom. The wise were faithful and thus had the oil. The foolish were not faithful and had no oil.

Stranger
 

GodsGrace

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Calvinists themselves do not like the term OSAS so, they use the "P" in TULIP- Perseverance of the saints, which makes it sound more biblical as, we ARE to persevere but...they honestly DO believe once saved always saved. I have been fighting their doctrines for years now and, am so over it as...it just goes round and round to a place called NOWHERE!!! Lol.
I agree, but we still must speak the truth.
The truth is that God gives everyone of His creation that chance to be saved...
what kind of a God would not?
Not the one of the bible, that's for sure.

Calvinists can't really know if they're even really saved UNLESS they persevere till the end.
Bad position to be in....
 

GodsGrace

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Are these scriptures at fault?

John 3:29
“And the next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”

John 3:15-18
“that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 10:28:30
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. and the Father are one.”

Romans 8:38-39
"Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, “For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Ephesians 1:13-14
"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory."

Matthew 18:12-14
“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Colossians 2:12-14
"Having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled"

I have posed questions like this before. Here are two camps of theological thought, once saved always saved and those that believe you can loose your saved status. Both camps have studied the scriptures, both camps are knowledgeable, both camps can produce the scriptures that support their beliefs. Both camps can do a tap dance to explain them, coming up with Klondike interpretations. Which does not help anything but skew other scriptures. For how many centuries do you think this has been debated? Is this the wisest course of action? Back and forth, back and forth. Each camp presents two sets of scriptures that seem to contradict, but in the seam, is the truth and the wisdom, the seam holds them together. So what is the truth that brings these scriptures into harmony? Isn’t that the better question? If you find it, it will be a treasure to you. The truth will set you free, a lie will bind you up in contradiction and controversy, back and forth, back and forth. You have to find it, because wisdom given is unappreciated and trampled under foot, wisdom found is a treasure and held dear to your heart. Who was it that gave this analogy?

Proverbs 3:13-20
"How blessed is the man who finds wisdom And the man who gains understanding. For her profit is better than the profit of silver And her gain better than fine gold. She is more precious than jewels; And nothing you desire compares with her. Long life is in her right hand; In her left hand are riches and honor. Her ways are pleasant ways And all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. The Lord by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up And the skies drip with dew."
There are also verses that show the possibility to become lost again.
This debate has been raging on for years....
I won't post verses unless you ask me to..
It's always verse volley ball with this subject.

But we do have a lot of IFs ... CONTINUEs...HOLD FASTs...etc.
in the N.T.

Why, if it's not possible to become lost?
 

Zachary

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Why does it also say in Philippians 1:6 being confident of this very thing that he who begun a good work in us will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Why does it also say in Philippians 1:12 to work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling.
.
 
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Davy

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Guess I am not understanding what the oil is. If it is the Holy Spirit, they had the Holy Spirit to begin with, but didnt have enough?

The five foolish virgins were told to go to market and buy Oil, and they tried to but couldn't, and then returned to find Christ shutting the door on them.

Can one buy... that Oil? No, of course not. So what state of mind does that show the five foolish virgins had? In John 10, our Lord Jesus warned about the hireling that treated their job as a business. They did it for money, which is the meaning of a 'hireling'. It's similar to Esau treating God's Birthright like wares, something that can be traded, bought or sold, thus profaning it.
 

Grailhunter

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There are also verses that show the possibility to become lost again.
This debate has been raging on for years....
I won't post verses unless you ask me to..
It's always verse volley ball with this subject.

But we do have a lot of IFs ... CONTINUEs...HOLD FASTs...etc.
in the N.T.

Why, if it's not possible to become lost?

Agree and agreed. And that is point, there is a way to bring the scriptures into harmony.
 
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Zachary

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I think people confuse salvation as a walk of living without sin when what it is all about is having a belief by our faith on the one who died for our sins.
That is salvation.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Unfortunately, you have NO idea what the NT word "believeth" really means!

It's NOT an intellectual belief.
It's NOT even a deep heart-felt belief.

It means a belief that results in obedience.
It means a belief that results in practicing righteousness.
It means a belief that results in living a holy life.
It means a belief that endures to the end of your life.
(All of this is stressed in the NT.)
.
 

Davy

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You might take into consideration that this parable of the 10 virgins is not about the Church, the Bride of Christ. I take it as being about the Millennial Kingdom to come, and the Church is already with Christ. This judgment of the foolish virgins pertains to those on earth at that time and their entrance into that Kingdom. The wise were faithful and thus had the oil. The foolish were not faithful and had no oil.

Stranger

Not how the parable is written.

All ten virgins had the Oil in their lamps, and all ten were waiting on the bridegroom to come.

The mention of midnight is given as a metaphor for the time of the bridegroom's coming, which is to represent Christ's coming. That means the timing when all ten virgins fell asleep was right before midnight, right before Christ's coming, which points to the time of great tribulation at the very end of this world.
 

Zachary

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Actually I got set free of condemnation years ago. I know I am a sinner saved by grace and that as I grow I become more like Jesus everyday. It didn't happen overnight. It became a process. As He changed what was in my heart...(that even I didn't know was there) He changed me. And He isn't done with me yet. I continue to seek His truth and to become less self seeking and self righteous I draw nearer to Him. As I decrease He increases in me. I serve to be a service for His Glory...not mine.
You are eternally secure because you were born again ...
and you have CHOSEN to co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit,
and consequently are successfully being sanctified unto holiness!

But, please do NOT assume that all BACs are following in your footsteps.
Some of us here are trying to warn other BACs that they are NOT eternally secure,
if they are involved in habitual (unrepentant) sinning! (for example)

I have run into this from time to time:
women tend to form doctrine out of their own personal experience.
.