Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

And who are they who overcome BOL? Well, what do ya know. There's that word believe again.......
1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev. 22:18-19 is a warning to anyone who tries to re-write the Book of Revelation by either adding things that God didn’t say or by deleting things He did say. Although believers have interpreted the book in many different ways, I can’t imagine any born again believer actually re-writing it. Therefore I think it was meant as a warning to non-believers not to alter the book with the intent of deceiving people.

There are enough unconditional declarations of Eternal Security for the Church in the New Testament to make it an established fact. Among the clearest ones are John 6:37-40, John 10:27-30, Romans 8:38-39, Ephes. 1:13-14 and 2 Cor. 1:21-22. Since the Bible is the inspired word of God and can’t contradict itself Rev. 22:19 has to be saying that editing the Book of Revelation is an indication that the person doing so is not part of the Church and therefore not a recipient of the blessing of Eternal Security. Otherwise it would stand in opposition to these clear promises of God. It was John who threatened that if anyone took anything away from the prophecies of the Book of Revelation God would take away his part in the Book of Life (Rev. 22:18-19). With all the testimony of the New Testament that promises Eternal Security to believers, this can only mean that those to try to change the Book of Revelation are proving by their actions that they are not and never were saved..

I firmly believe in once saved always saved, and the verses that once led me to doubt it, for the most part, have been explained to me. However there is one verse that I still can’t get my mind around, and that is Rev. 3:5. Now I know that we are not supposed to take one scripture and use it to disprove the many that say otherwise, yet since Rev 3 is talking to the churches, how do we explain that we have everlasting life if our names can be blotted out?

You’re correct in saying we shouldn’t take a single verse, especially one who’s meaning is in doubt to us, and use it to negate all the verses we understand clearly.

But as a matter of fact, Rev. 3:5 doesn’t say that our names can be blotted out of the book of life. It says just the opposite. Look verses 4 and 5 together and you’ll see this.

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. (Rev. 3:4-5)

He’s basically telling the unsaved in Sardis that if they put their trust in Him like some of their friends have done, they too will be dressed in white and He will never blot their names out of the book of life... OSAS And Rev. 22:19 – Grace thru faith

revelation 22:19 osas - Google Search

You're missing the ENTIRE point of these passages.

The fact that a name can be "blotted out" of the Book of Life means that they were ON there before and then erased.
You cannot be "blotted" out if you weren't ON the list before.

There is not ONE SINGE verse in ALL of Scripture that proclaims OSAS.
However - there are MANY that say just the opposite is true - and I have presented them repeatedly.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You speak and act in the natural, and WAIT to see before you understand.
I am already made whole, body, soul, spirit.
There are only two standings;
WITH or WITHOUT the Lord.
FOR or AGAINST the Lord.

I know my standing. It was given me ONCE and remains with me FOREVER.

And yet, you can't provide any Scriptural proof for this - can you??

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are still without understanding.

Jesus says....

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, IF I tell you of heavenly things?

Uh-huh.
Now, tell me how this verse debunks the DOZEN or so passages I used to destroy your man made fairy tale of OSAS.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He's also speaking in metaphorical and figurative language, parables etc. God is not in contradiction...

Rom 11:28-32 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
That's NOT what Scripture says - in CONTEXT.
Matt. 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

These people HAD gifts and were condemned anyway.
Context is NOT your friend . . .

Again, the author here is speaking in metaphorical and figurative language, parables etc..

Barnes' Notes on the Bible - Whether this in fact ever occurs, is quite another question. In regard to that inquiry, see the notes on Hebrews 6:4-6. If this view be correct, we may add, that the passage should not be regarded as applying to what is commonly known as the "sin against the Holy Spirit," or "the unpardonable sin." The word rendered "wilfully" - ἑκουσίως hekousiōs - occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 Peter 5:2, where it is rendered "willingly" - "taking the oversight thereof (of the church) not by constraint, but willingly." It properly means, "willingly, voluntarily, of our own accord," and applies to cases where no constraint is used. It is not to be construed here strictly, or metaphysically, for all sin is voluntary, or is committed willingly, but must refer to a deliberate act, where a man means to abandon his religion, and to turn away from God. If it were to be taken with metaphysical exactness, it would demonstrate that every Christian who ever does anything wrong, no matter how small, would be lost.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges - which shall devour the adversaries] “Yea let fire devour thine enemies” (Isaiah 26:11). It has so long been the custom to interpret such passages of “eternal torments” that we lose sight of the fact that such a meaning, if we may interpret Scripture historically, was in most cases not consciously present to the mind of the writers. The constant repetition of the same metaphor by the Prophets with no reference except to temporal calamities and the overthrow of cities and nations made it familiar in this sense to the N.T. writers. By “the adversaries” here are not meant “sinners,” but impenitent Jews and wilful apostates who would perish in the Day of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 1:8). It is at least doubtful whether the writer meant to imply anything beyond that prophecy of doom to the heirs of the Old Covenant which was fulfilled a few years later when the fire of God’s wrath consumed the whole system of a Judaism which had rejected its own Messiah. The word for “adversaries” only occurs in the N.T. in Colossians 2:14.

And ALL of this is nonsense because you failed to address EPIGNOSIS.

Epignosis is not "knowledge". It is an intense, FULL and experiential knowledge - like one would have with a spouse.
"Oida" is the normal Greek word for "knowing".

Anybody can oida who God is- nut only a born again believer can Epignosis Him

This whole chapter is about false teachers and false prophets (nonbelievers BOL). They have heard the Gospel but haven't believed.

WRONG.
You're forgetting that they had EPIGNOSIS of God . . .

When do we not fall every now and then. If we don't fall we are Jesus himself, and sanctification wouldn't exist. This is simply a message to fight the good fight.

And to not FALL from your "SECURE" position.
This isn't talking about "stunbling" in sin. This is about LOSING your secure position in Christ.
It's no so much an admonition, as it is a remembrance and encouragement of who we are in Him.

WRONG.
Read it again:
1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

He is saying, "IF what you have learned remains in in you - you WILL remain in the Son and the Father."
He is NOT saying, "What you have learned WILL remain in you because you CAN'T lose it."

BIG difference . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

They KNOW He is THE Savior - just not theirs because their fate is sealed.

Right, demons know their fate is sealed just like believers know their fate is sealed.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

The rules don't "change" for the Tribulations saints.Their salvation is as conditional as OURS is.

I think you missed the point here. The saints aren't causing the wickedness, nonbelievers are. The saints are dying because of martyrdom (righteousness), those who are in Christ.

Out sanctification IS our salvation.

BOL, there's sanctification at our initial salvation, but then there's also sanctification that is continual throughout our lives.

You cannot be saved until you are fully sanctified and vice versa.

"Full sanctification" is another term for "glorification". We receive our glorified bodies at first resurrection and rapture, but only to those who are born again BOL.

In the last few pages of exchanges - you have FAILED to produce ONE verse of Scripture that proves OSAS.
Just a lot of verses taken out of context and puzzled together and don't harmonize with the rest of Scripture.

According to you or God?

Tell me - WHY did Jesus require Baptism for salvation (Mark 16:16) if He didn't mean it.

This is referring to baptism in the Holy Spirit, and that comes through belief. You better believe He meant it.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hi Reggie. If the blood of Christ can't keep us saved then He failed at the cross. Do you believe it's finished at the cross?

Once you are born again of the Holy Spirit you can not be un born or reject the Holy Spirit but man being of the flesh is weak and that light so to speak may not shine as bright as it should and enter into temptations of the worldly ways, I don't think one would go to Hell, but that's not for me to say, Purgatory for sure can be on the cards.

I reject the Cross totally on it's own as nothing but a Satanic thing and only see a crucified Jesus hanging on such as valid as to proof on mans Sinful nature, will attack a totally innocent man.
The Cross has no power at all.
It's Jesus hung up on the cross that is the power, it shows mans depravity of Sin in it's works.
Jesus is the Holy Spirit in the flesh, they tried to destroy him but failed because he is the Holy Spirit.
Christ Jesus can never fail ever because he is the Holy Spirit.
It's his Spirit that saves for ever.

 

[Heb 13:8]

WRONG.
Read it again:
1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

He is saying, "IF what you have learned remains in in you - you WILL remain in the Son and the Father."
He is NOT saying, "What you have learned WILL remain in you because you CAN'T lose it."

BIG difference . . .

Right, and there's a big difference between literal and figurative, similar to John 15:1-17 which is figurative.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I reject the Cross totally on it's own as nothing but a Satanic thing and only see a crucified Jesus hanging on such as valid as to proof on mans Sinful nature, will attack a totally innocent man.

You believe in OSAS (which is good), but you reject the cross? Can you clarify.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The fact that a name can be "blotted out" of the Book of Life means that they were ON there before and then erased. You cannot be "blotted" out if you weren't ON the list before.

You have to read it in context, which you would need the Holy Spirit to discern, no?

There is not ONE SINGE verse in ALL of Scripture that proclaims OSAS.

That's because you've already made up your mind Rom 8:33, 38-39..

You can't give a blind man sight unless he believes..

Matt 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" "Yes, Lord," they replied.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You believe in OSAS (which is good), but you reject the cross? Can you clarify.

The Cross was always bad thing and anyone who knows the OT knows this fact.

The Cross the NT is on about is all about Jesus hung up on the mongrel thing, not the cross at all.

To the Satanic so called Jews who lead all astray, they hung him up on that cross because it was an insult to him and all, who seen him hung up their on the mongrel thing. (if you were their would you like seeing him on the cross ?) no it's an insult.

But it's the power of Jesus that the cross did not insult him but gave power to him, due to the folly of the Satanist they could not destroy him.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The Cross the NT is on about is all about Jesus hung up on the mongrel thing, not the cross at all.

Do you believe you're in need of a savior? Mongrel as in forgiveness of sins?

 

[Taken]

WRONG.
You are conflating Redemption with Salvation.

No. Again you are without understanding.

First there is something that constitutes Sin.
There is something OWED for the Sin.
That which is OWED is a payment.
The PAYMENT is called a Wage.
The WAGE is the LIFE (blood, body) of man.
Jesus PAID the WAGE with His (blood, body)
A man Who accepts Jesus' PAYMENT;
....becomes Saved and Born Again.
This Allows such man to continue in his body
And Blood, with God, serving God, In Christ, Christ In the Man, forever.

A record in the Lambs Book of Life, has such mans Name.
When the Son of man, Bodily (Jesus) & with His Power (Christ), descends from Heaven to the clouds;
He shall call UP to the clouds,
All men WHO accepted Jesus' Payment for them.
This is Jesus' role OF the Redeemer.
He paid the Payment, and now is Collecting/
...Redeeming, THOSE men, which Accepted
...His Payment.
Jesus is the redeemER. Such men are the redeemED.

It matters not WHAT the people called themselves; Christians, Jews, Gentiles, Chinese...whatever.
"IF" they accepted Jesus' payment FOR THEMSELVES....they shall be called up as Tribulation begins on the earth.

During the first half of the Tribulation;
Those who were first, become the last called;
They are those WHO, believed in God, AND the Word of God, but DID NOT believe Jesus was their Christ Messiah.
They have Gods chosen Ministers, ministering to the remnant that they also can ACCEPT Jesus' Payment, and become saved and born again.

As these bodily DIE, for rejecting submission to ANTI-CHRIST and False Prophet in the process of positioning themselves as World Rulers....

Their SAVED living souls, departed out of their physically dead bodies; ARE kept, with the Spirit of God (called "under the alter).

All the world will also have one last chance to Hear the Word of God, and CHOOSE or NOT, to ACCEPT, Jesus' offering of His Body and Blood Payment; effected BY an Angel of God revealing the Word of God to the Whole World.

ONCE, ALL Who are Left, HAVE, Accepted Jesus' PAYMENT, "THEY" shall be Redeemed together; "Their living souls," returning to Heaven. This IS "THEIR" redemption;
Jesus their RedeemER. They the RedeemED.

Then shall commence the GREAT Tribulation-
Upon the Earth; Purifying the Earth with Fire.
Evil Spirits overcome By the Word of God; and they; being removed from the earth surface.
Those men remaining, shall have ALL rejected thee Lord God Almighty.
The punishment upon the Earth; shall KILL their body's.
Their departed living souls, shall be sent to hell, to wait judgement.

This is a simple and brief response. There are many more details. But the fact is;
The REDEEMED, ARE men WHO have Accepted the Lord Jesus' body and blood, for their payment of Sin.
They have become Saved and Born Again and Claimed (redeemed), by the Lord.(Redeemer).

This accomplishes the DIVISION that Jesus came to earth to DO. Separating those WITH God (from) those WITHOUT God.

Everybody who ever lived and ever WILL live has been redeemed (paid for) by christ.

No kidding. And who said otherwise?

NOT all will be saved.

No kidding. And who said otherwise?

As for this mythical "Rapture" that you speak of - Scripture NEVER says that born again believers will be "caught up" or "pulled out" before some time of great tribulation. This is a Protestant myth that was born from the pulpits of men like John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

You are without understanding.
Knowledge is revealed in Scripture;
That Knowledge to be received of a man requires a diligent study, by the man.
The Understanding of that Knowledge is a gift from God to the Individual WHO IS diligent in Studying the Knowledge.

Studying what OTHER MEN, appointed BY MEN, or SELF-APPOINTED men, have concluded; IS NOT the method Scripture teaches.

You arguing ONE mans point, against what ANOTHER man has taught you, is irrelevant.

You have exposed much that IS in contrast to Scripture that APPLIES to a man WHO HAS become Saved and Born Again.

A mans living soul, that IS Saved, IS Saved to forever life, By and Forever WITH the Lord.

A mans natural spirit, that IS Born Again, IS Born Again to forever life, By and Forever WITH the Lord.

When the Lord descends from Heaven to the Clouds; He Redeems "HIS CHURCH" UP TO HIM......WHOM; are NOT SUBJECT to Gods Wrath.

During the first part of the Tribulation; Men who have not YET accepted the Lords Gift of Salvation; ARE given opportunity TO receive the Lords Gift of Salvation; and they ALSO shall be raised up.

This shall LEAVE behind, ON EARTH, ALL who rejected the Lords Gift of Salvation; and ALL who shall suffer the Great Wrath of the Lord UPON the Earth.

Why is it that NONE (ZERO) of your Protestant Fathers taught this fairy tale??

WHY DO YOU, present yourself as one WHO LISTENS to SOME man to TELL YOU WHAT to believe? And then act as a self-appointed armchair critic, against another mans thoughts?

Seriously....WHO CARES what men appointed by men; or self-appointed men think?

Scripture teaches to be IN AGREEMENT with the Word of God; Christ Jesus!

And IF they were wrong about this - what makes you think they were right about anything else??

What makes you think, anyone is appealing to YOU, following YOU, according to your sell-appointed position of armchair critic?

 

[Taken]

And yet, you can't provide any Scriptural proof for this - can you??

You can CHALLENGE the Lord's Word over and over and over....

A few people BELIEVE and TRUST the Lord's WORD is TRUE...

That "IF" a man, confesses heartfelt belief, to the Lord, the man IS saved.

That "IF" a man, does so confess, the Lord shall quicken the mans spirit.

That "IF" a man, does so confess, the Lords Spirit SHALL dwell within the man forever.

It would require YOU to do your own study to learn the knowledge of what is required and "IF" a man, does so accomplish the "IF", the Lord is FAITHFUL to do ALL scripture Reveals in the Knowledge.

Some men TRUST TO BELIEVE, the Lords WORD IS TRUE, and accomplished WHEN HE SPEAKS, even if, UNLIKE you, you wait to SEE, IF the Lords WORD, shall come to pass.

I KNOW WHAT "IF'S" I have accomplished.
I TRUST the Lord is Faithful and True, whether or not I CAN SEE what He has accomplished IN ME.

I have ZERO obligation to satisfy your ignorance or disbelief.

My relationship between the Lord and myself is personal, between the Lord and myself.

I can also have a relationship with OTHER men WHOSE "standing" is ALSO "WITH" the Lord.

MY STANDING is WITH the Lord.
I can know another mans standing by what comes out of his own mouth and behavior.

You present yourself IN STANDING WITH a man called a pope and AGAINST all other men who do not STAND WITH YOU, and your STANDING with a man called a pope.

You also present yourself in Standing Against Scripture.

You present yourself without spiritual understanding; and bore me with your endless irrelevant carnal minded nonsense.

 

[Taken]

Uh-huh.
Now, tell me how this verse debunks the DOZEN or so passages I used to destroy your man made fairy tale of OSAS.

You have destroyed nothing.

You are without understanding.

Salvation is a GIFT, that MUST BE RECEIVED by the man, before the man IS SAVED.

Yapping on about men hearing knowledge, believing, doubting, wondering, believing...

IS IRRELEVANT.....until the man RECEIVES Salvation.

Your ignorance is you don't know the difference between what a man can hear and believe in HIS MIND and a man confessing belief in HIS HEART.

Any man can hear knowledge and believe in HIS MIND......and DUH.....CHANGE HIS MIND!

Believe, not believe, believe, doubt, believe some things, wonder, believe this, not believe that, believe this, not have learned that....

NOT NEWS! That IS HOW a man learns pretty much ALL things.
Yeah for the MIND, that can gather information and make LOGICAL conclusions;
Believe, not believe, believe, doubt, wonder, believe, not believe....

Sheesh, it's not rocket science!!

"IF"......BIG "IF"..

"IF" the man, (the INDIVIDUAL man) decides he just CAN NOT believe all the knowledge he is hearing/learning......

DUH....he stops following along.
DUH....he gives it up.
DUH....he walks away.
DUH....he decides he doesn't believe it.
DUH....he decides it is not worth his time.
DUH....HELLO...

DUH....He fell Away...

DUH....He didn't RECEIVE Salvation.
DUH....He NEVER stuck it out long enough to continue receiving Faith, that his Heart was full of Faith...that He CONFESSED belief in his Heart.

DUH....the Salvation provided by the Lord...
DUH....was NEVER RECEIVED by the man.
DUH....he lost his Salvation that the Lord provided for him....THAT HE NEVER CLAIMED and RECEIVED!

NONE of the Scriptures you have provided over and over and over....speak to a man WHO has received Salvation.

Those scriptures speak about men being enlightened to the Knowledge of Scripture, and believing IN THEIR MIND....without YET believing in THEIR HEARTS....and being WARNED to keep following and hearing and being enlightened and receiving faith, till their heart is full of faith and them prepared to receive their Salvation....or they shall lose it.

You are without understanding.

Salvation is a GIFT.
The Lord provides the GIFT.
If a man doesn't reach out and ACCEPT the Gift, he loses out on receiving the Gift that was provided for him.

A man WHO DOES reach out and ACCEPT the Gift of Salvation....IT IS HIS FOREVER.

Your twisted teaching, AS IF, the Lord "GIVES" a man the gift of Salvation, and THEN the Lord reaches out and TAKES BACK that gift of Salvation FROM THE MAN...

Is total lunacy, and completely IN CONTRAST to Scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

apparently, confusing works and grace. God bless

yes, when they are the same. Faith without works is dead. Grace is work. Forgive, and you will be forgiven

 

[Taken]

Faith is a Gift from God.

Acceptable to God Works can not be accomplished without full heartful Faithfulness, and Gods indwelling Power to accomplish works that are pleasing to God.

Faith without works, is carnal faith, and is dead.

All men begin hearing, and believing mindfully, and by perseverance in hearing, learning, reading the Word of God, does such a man receive Heartful belief/faith, and is thus prepared to repent and Confess and become converted and prepared to do works pleasing to God.

Carnal minded faith; is faith that can come and go as a man is double-minded; believing, not believing, believing, doubting, believing, blah, blah.

His works are Dead works and are without a committed heartful faith to God, from God.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

(Including his mindful faith and dead works)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Sunday March 18, 2018 ~

Think of the thousands added to Christ's Church today. Praise God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Do you believe you're in need of a savior? Mongrel as in forgiveness of sins?

All need Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
The Word Mongrel I don't think is correct, I don't believe that people are born totally depraved or what ever but are cursed with a Sin nature, because if they were totally depraved then their is no point of Jesus coming to Save.
Some people become totally depraved due to what ever.

 

[Heb 13:8]

yes, when they are the same. Faith without works is dead. Grace is work. Forgive, and you will be forgiven

Gen 15:6, Jhn 6:29

All need Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
The Word Mongrel I don't think is correct, I don't believe that people are born totally depraved or what ever but are cursed with a Sin nature, because if they were totally depraved then their is no point of Jesus coming to Save.
Some people become totally depraved due to what ever.

Jhn 3:3, 7

 

[bbyrd009]

Gen 15:6, Jhn 6:29

avoiding the point, not confronting it.
belief (hopefully) leads to faith, which leads to works or does not, but regardless,

faith without works is dead, and quoting vv that seem to dispute that is not agreeing with Scripture, which should be obvious to you?

Iow address "faith without works is dead" some kind of way, even if i don't agree with it, for your own sake imo.

Just quoting vv that in your mind negate some other v demonstrates that you have not assimilated the vv you don't particularly like, doesn't it?