Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[amadeus]

How about narrwing that down to two sentences.
Thats all you need.
Of course, you don't have to.
But I, for one, understand nothing of what you've said.
My loss I guess.

Indeed, once in a great while I will read lengthy posts, but most of the time I either skip them or only skim them. Since my retention abilities have diminished considerably with my aging flesh, it is not uncommon for me to have no idea what a given person has said in his lengthy writing.

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed, once in a great while I will read lengthy posts, but most of the time I either skip them or only skim them. Since my retention abilities have diminished considerably with my aging flesh, it is not uncommon for me to have no idea what a given person has said in his lengthy writing.

We must be the same age.
LOL

 

[aspen]

I'd love to know your age. You sound young.
Why is it that the young are drawn to the hellish doctrine Calvin spread?

Also, you speak of the preservation of the saints, and then proceed to post verses that disprove it!
Bit I'm on a tablet right now...

Hypercalvinists always overemphasis how vengeful God is toward the people he made for Hell, while making sure to exclude themselves as part of the elect. It is just as elitist as the pharisees.

It is easy to preach an angry God when you exclude yourself from the vengence of his hands, right Mr. Edwards?

 

[Taken]

Indeed as I see it the "sealed" is like the jars of fruits and vegetables my mother used to can. The seal protects the food so it'll be edible when it is opened for that purpose. Breaking the seal before it is time to eat it will cause the food to spoil and so become inedible.

Once in a while through some error made in the sealing process the seal would not take and the food would be rotten when the jar was opened.

Other times even the seal was done correctly something happened after it went into storage like it was hit by an hard object or it was knocked off the shelf breaking the seal. The result was that the seal was broken and the food rotted.

This is how salvation works as I see it. If proper care is taken the seal will never be broken before the end of "our course", but sometimes we choose to break the seal ourselves. It's mistake to do it, but it does happen.

The SEAL, is given by the Holy Spirit, and Kept SEALED by the Holy Spirit.

The SEAL, is opened, which is to say, the Lamb of God Himself, unseals His Lambs book of Life, which reveals the Names of those WHO, confessed Belief IN Christ.
It is opened on Redemption Day, and on that Day, The Lord REDEEMS ALL whose names appear in the Lambs Book of Life.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Hypercalvinists always overemphasis how vengeful God is toward the people he made for Hell, while making sure to exclude themselves as part of the elect. It is just as elitist as the pharisees.

It is easy to preach an angry God when you exclude yourself from the vengence of his hands, right Mr. Edwards?

Uffa.
I don't know who Mr. Edwards is, but otherwise I agree with all you've posted.

In Romans 9:2-4 Paul tells us how anguished he is ... He would be willing to cut himself off from God to bring his Jewish brethren to Christ.

Leaving aside the fact that this statement shows how it's the choice of the person to follow Christ,
It shows Paul's love for his fellow man.

Isn't it sad that to a calvinist, Paul loves mankind more than God does since God would save everyone if He were so anguished, and not just the "elect".!!

Calvinism fails in every way....

 

[aspen]

Uffa.
I don't know who Mr. Edwards is, but otherwise I agree with all you've posted.

In Romans 9:2-4 Paul tells us how anguished he is ... He would be willing to cut himself off from God to bring his Jewish brethren to Christ.

Leaving aside the fact that this statement shows how it's the choice of the person to follow Christ,
It shows Paul's love for his fellow man.

Isn't it sad that to a calvinist, Paul loves mankind more than God does since God would save everyone if He were so anguished, and not just the "elect".!!

Calvinism fails in every way....

Absolutely.

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God - Wikipedia

Famous sermon by Jonathan Edwards

 

[Mjh29]

Also, you speak of the preservation of the saints, and then proceed to post verses that disprove it!
Bit I'm on a tablet right now...[/QUOTE]
Age is irrelevant. Truth is for all ages. I love how people attack Calvin and yet know so little about him. And Calvinism is only named after him because of the fact that he systematized it. He did not invent this system of thinking. And before you begin taking it upon yourself to become the judge, jury, and executioner; allow me to ask a simple question; Do we have more power than Christ? Christ said that He will save us, wash us, and make us whole. In Hebrews, we are told that He is the Author and perfecto of our faith. How can we overcome the power of the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity, who is as much God as the Father and The Son Himself? What do you find so heretical about saying that God, Who is all powerful, Actually exercises His Omnipotence? How can man, the created, fallen, sinful being over-rule the choice of the All Mighty? What is more heretical; to say that when God chooses a person to be saved He, as the Never-changing God, keeps them to the end, or to say that if I don't keep up my faith, I'm going to loose it? How prideful and ignorant is it to think that we have any control over anything at all!! Can you keep your own heart beating? Do you think of breathing at night while you sleep? You cant even keep your own body alive, what makes you think we are in charge of our own souls? How could we be? Can our actions over rule the choice of God? Or when God makes a choice, is it set, never changing and forever effective. Contrary to popular belief, man has very little to do with his Salvation and Justification, none of which is worth prideful boasting like being able to say "I kept my faith!!!"

I'd love to know your age. You sound young.
Why is it that the young are drawn to the hellish doctrine Calvin spread?

 

[Mjh29]

Absolutely.

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God - Wikipedia

Famous sermon by Jonathan Edwards

what was the result of that sermon again?..... oh yeah, mass conversion and repentance....

 

[aspen]

what was the result of that sermon again?..... oh yeah, mass conversion and repentance....

Indeed - irrational endings conclude most rants.

Somebody should have told him it is unseemly to molest goats.

If Hypercalvanists gave a damn, they would show mercy to the damned

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely.

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God - Wikipedia

Famous sermon by Jonathan Edwards

This would have done well in the thread, Saved By Fear?
I wonder if this method would still work today?

 

[Mjh29]

And Jacobus Arminius never even spread Arminianism outside of his little cult-like church. It wasn't until after he died that his followers attempted to spread his heresy.... which was condemned by and entire council as heresy.

 

[amadeus]

The SEAL, is given by the Holy Spirit, and Kept SEALED by the Holy Spirit.

The SEAL, is opened, which is to say, the Lamb of God Himself, unseals His Lambs book of Life, which reveals the Names of those WHO, confessed Belief IN Christ.
It is opened on Redemption Day, and on that Day, The Lord REDEEMS ALL whose names appear in the Lambs Book of Life.

God Bless,
Taken

I do agree that the sealing is by the Holy Spirit, but I do not agree that man ever lost his right to say, No, to God. He should not, but he does and when he does he gets into trouble with God.

I believe is that God has provided man with means to become like God wants him to be but man must use what he has and ask for help as needed from God all along the way. He will always need some help until he has overcome all that stands between him and God, which essentially is described in this verse:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The world is the little world of each one of us. Jesus had his as well, but he overcame it all as indicated here:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Jesus is effectively saying that he overcame it and in spite of difficulties [tribulations] we can do the same. He has made it a possibility and we will not quench the Holy Spirit within us but rather follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. If on the other hand we quench the Spirit and follow the "lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life", we will then be led to sin again... in spite of the sealing. Quenching the Holy Spirit in us is in effect breaking the seal.

 

[aspen]

And Jacobus Arminius never even spread Arminianism outside of his little cult-like church. It wasn't until after he died that his followers attempted to spread his heresy.... which was condemned by and entire council as heresy.

Well, In that case.....

 

[Heb 13:8]

Right - and Jesus gave us the formula (John 3:5).You're not "baptized" simply because YOU declare it. Baptism is a public act of an inward reality.

And what is that indward reality? Is it belief or works?

NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture do we see an example of a person who simply "claims" the gifts received at Baptism without being Baptized with water.

John 3:5 is referring to SPIRITUAL water.

He WASN'T speaking of our salvation because it ain't finished until we die.

Iésous: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.
Original Word: Ἰησοῦς, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Iésous
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ay-sooce')
Short Definition: Jesus
Definition: Jesus; the Greek form of Joshua; Jesus, son of Eliezer; Jesus, surnamed Justus.
HELPS Word-studies

2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").

Faith isn't simply "believing" and "calling" on the Lord.That is Easy-believeism.

They should call it hard-believism, but yeah... the gospel is simple. it's teh religious who turn it into algebra.

A - Admit you're a sinner
B - Believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead
C - Call on the name of the Lord and confess with your mouth

Belief + Works = Faith (James 2:14-22).

What is produced is Godly righteousness, and has nothing to do with keeping your salvation.

God uses our works- that HE prepared for us in advance (Eph. 2:10) - to sanctify us throughout our life because they are TRUE faith.Don't believe me?? Just read the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46).

And those with true faith count on the finished work of the cross to save them, not religious duties or self acts.

We cannot have true faith without cooperating with that grace through obedience.

says who, hitler?

And, if we STOP obeying - we have lost that faith and its rewards (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

It's funny how you ignored my response to all these verses, did you read them?

 

[pia]

ust of the eyes, and the pride of life", we will then be led to sin again... in spite of the sealing. Quenching the Holy Spirit in us is in effect breaking the seal.

You believe that we can undo what Jesus died for to give us ? I find that a little surprising and will have to push into Him again, as He showed me the difficulty in separating the two, once joined.. Good for us never to stagnate lol

 

[Taken]

I do agree that the sealing is by the Holy Spirit, but I do not agree that man ever lost his right to say, No, to God.

Absolutely, an UN-COMMITED man can walk away.

Scripture warns to BE SURE of your election of God.
2 Pet 1:10
....give diligence to make your calling and election sure...

IOW - IF one is choosing to commit to God, Be sure.
Repeatedly, in Scripture, it is told to us, He makes the changes within us, to save our souls, and quicken our spirits, both to forever life, and that His Spirit would forever be with us.

And - we already know, He knows all things. He knows IF one will give lip service, then reneg. And He will not be shamed or mocked to give a man gifts of everlasting life, to then have the man claim to reject what the Lord has given him.

Some claim to have been Saved, and later reject belief. They certainly may have gone through the motions; lip service; water baptism.....but they never tricked God and received salvation or a quickening of their spirit.

Receiving the Gift of Salvation giving the man a restored soul, saved forever living and the Seed of God, birthing a mans new spirit;
Is an Express FOREVER Division of a man WITH the Lord Forever, from a man WITHOUT the Lord, less he submit before his natural life ends.

Jesus came to DIVIDE. Luke 12:51

Gifting men with a saved forever living soul;
And
Gifting a man with a quickened forever living spirit;

IS HOW the Lord IS Dividing those who belong TO Him, as His People, from those who reject Him, and will, after Judgement, forever be separated from Him.

He should not, but he does and when he does he gets into trouble with God.

The "trouble" would be MOCKING God, or bringing SHAME upon God.
Gal 6:7
Heb 6:6

God will tolerate neither.

I believe is that God has provided man with means to become like God wants him to be but man must use what he has

and ask for help as needed from God all along the way. He will always need some help until he has overcome all that stands between him and God, which essentially is described in this verse:

Sure. It is simply described in Scripture.
Ask and you shall receive.
Some ask to be With Him.
Some ask to be Without Him.
All shall receive what they freely choose.

"If on the other hand we quench the Spirit and follow the "lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life", we will then be led to sin again... in spite of the sealing. Quenching the Holy Spirit in us is in effect breaking the seal.

Disagree.

Jews had laws. Not doing the laws was a sin.
What applied to the Jews did not apply to Gentiles. Yet we have a mix of both being taught something new (NT), while making references to their old ways, ie Jews (OT), and Gentiles, (idols and such).

A man saved and born again IS Sealed, once and forever, as the Lord repeatedly says Forever.

A man so saved and born again...HAS the Spirit of God; the Spirit of Gods TRUTH IN HIM.

Quenching the Holy Spirit - IS a man having first hand, Direct communication with God, with His absolute Truth.......BUT the man is doing nothing with it.
He isn't speaking it, sharing it, teaching it, ...
ZIP.

IOW - the man is doing NOTHING with this great gift God has given the man.

The man IS silent, keeping quite, oppressing, quenching....the Truth of the Holy Spirit.

And the mans silence, IS grievous TO the Holy Spirit.

It has nothing to do with breaking the SEAL of a mans salvation or quickened spirit.
Nor anything to do with the mans NAME in the Lambs book of life.
Nor is it a sin.

Inanutshell it is disappointing to God, for Him to have given a man great gifts to truthfully testify of the Lord, ACCORDING to the Lords truth....and the man isn't.

That is quenching the Holy Spirit, and they were being warned and instructed against leaving their great gift dormant.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

The ONLY sin I could commit IF it were possible , would be the same SINS He forgave me for

this is not possible tho; to commit a sin that you have already been forgiven for? How do ppl get this idea anyway, i wonder

 

[bbyrd009]

It is in simple language and clearly explains the difference between the two types of Christians

“…..If we choose to follow the old self, we would be called a “carnal Christian,” which means we have been born of the Spirit, but we are not walking by the Spirit. If, on the other hand, we choose to follow the new self, we would be called a “spiritual Christian,” one who is not only born again, but one who is also walking by the Spirit. This is a person who not only believes, but whose actions portray that belief…”

as long as it is understood that we choose one or the other, in every next decision

 

[Taken]

this is not possible tho; to commit a sin that you have already been forgiven for? How do ppl get this idea anyway, i wonder

That is why I specifically said, "IF" that were possible. It isn't possible. While also telling you specifically what Sins I HAD ACCOUNTED to me, ARE forgiven, and Never again possible for me to commit.

After forgiveness OF those sins;
I received the death of my body (crucified)
I received salvation of my soul, (saved)
AND,
received the Seed of God (born again spirit).

I was made WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.

Thus, I can not sin.
1 John 3:9

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

as long as it is understood that we choose one or the other, in every next decision

In every next decision?? In every second of time..??...Man with this type of answer it is hard for me to know if you are a true believer.

Let me try and make it clear for you: You are either 'biased' toward being spirit-led or carnally led. YOU know which one you are, you are kidding yourself if you say you are confused on this subject. You are really saying to me that I can select which "man" I want to use or choose, either to increase my faith in Christ and then to want to decrease it a bit or a lot, because I may want to deliberately sin a bit, like moving a faith dial CW or CCW. The faith you might have does not come from you. You are not in control of it. When I first became a believer I start with high faith and then it leveled off for a long time.. I was not developing or being spirit-led and I KNEW IT. I was hanging on to the old man. Once I reached a threshold again, through personal pain suffering and tears, my faith has always increased on the AVERAGE...it has NEVER gone 'down' or being under my control. The work being done in my heart is like a piece of spiritual pottery being developed to the image or spirit of Christ . I cannot smash it or restart the process of a re-fire, and re-conform again. It is OUT OF MY HANDS.

You are either a carnal believer, new believer that can be confused, or a non-believer.