Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[aspen]

It's not about ego at all.
It's about correcting somebody who is perverting the Word of God and trying to deceive others - like he has deceived himself.

Your problem with it is simply the fact that the post came from me.

1. It’s you name calling and contempt
2. And, actually yes - it is you. Not for the reason you think however. I expect more from Catholics.

 

[Taken]

Look, Einstein

Thank you.

- quoting Scriptures OUT of context

Is something you regularly do, but I doubt you comprehend what you are doing.

When you pervert the meaning of Scripture

For one to pervert the meaning of scripture...
They would need be without Gods understanding...That does not apply to me.

For one to Have Gods understanding...
They would first need to be saved AND born again.
While you repeatedly profess you are IN THE PROCESS of being saved...
Well, that leaves you without understanding.

You render BOTH John and the Holy Spirit liars

The extent of your lack of understanding has no limits.

In a poorly and Juvenal connived method, you take my claim, which is clearly revealed in Scripture......and then declare my claim makes John and the Holy Spirit liars.

One Scripture does not Negate and make another Scripture not true.

At no time did I say ANY scripture was not true.

when you arrogantly assert that you don't sin.

Again your attempt to disparage is a fail.
Scripture claims I do not sin. I agree with Scripture, because I know what I have done for that Scripture to apply to me.

Go argue the Scriptures with God, The Seed of God, who is Christ, John the Prophet....
Go tell them they are arrogant and liars for saying men born of God do not sin.

Calling people "dunces"

False accusation.

I did not call you or anyone a dunce. I said dunce. Seems you claimed that for yourself, Ok.

and judging their souls

I did not judge anyones' soul. You have said numerous times you are in the PROCESS of becoming saved, which is NOT being saved.

Don't get all huffy, because of what you said about your own soul, and I noticed.

is committing sin

LOL...noticing what you said about yourself, is not committing a sin!

only you're too spiritually prideful to see . . .

Spiritually prideful? Yet another accusation, after you make up a false scenario.

I have NO PROBLEM with what I SAY.

However you ARE a Problem....not only with me, but easily seen with others as well.

You make up things, people did not say, then scream at them, highlighting your negativity, how wrong they are...and then say you are the educator and have the right answer, to the false scenario you made up and arrogantly claim it is an others belief.

A similarity to Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

 

[aspen]

Taken,

Do you love perfectly?

 

[BreadOfLife]

James 2:14-22;
"What good is it my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?"
This is both a false profession of faith and a neglect of duty.
Check James 4:17;
"Can such a faith save him?"
This refers to our spiritual relationship with God.
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food?
If one of you says to him "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
This has to do with heartlessness, selfishness, pitilessness, and inconsistency.
Read James 3:10-12;
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Works prove faith.
Verse 18, the most misunderstood verse of the whole passage.
But someone will say, you have faith, I have deeds.
What is the writer really trying to say?
Could it have a dual meaning?
Did he mean to have a dual meaning?
How can we be sure?
The first thought to mind is that someone is claiming they are a Christian by doing nothing to show it.
Then James says I do good deeds to show my faith, such as feeding and clothing the poor, etc...

No, Rollo.
Works don't just PROVE faith - they ARE faith.

Genuine Christian faith requires surrender and obedience - not just "believing" and "calling" on the Lord.
James is telling his readers that Belief + Works (obedience) = FAITH.

Everything to this point is are physical good deeds.
But it continues.
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even demons believe that - and shudder.
Now the passage has changed to include spiritual warfare.
For no demon has ever been accused of doing good works.
What do demons have to do with good works.
The spiritual side of this says, the work of God is this, to believe in the one he sent.
How does that bring us back to verse 18?
The one who says he believes without good works is the one who is not saved.
His belief reached his mind as does the demons, but never reached his heart so that he would want to do good works.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with spiritual warfare.
James is simply telling his readers that belief alone will get you nowhere. because faith is MUCH more than just believing.

After Abraham offered his son, in verse 23 it says "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called God's friend."
So we see that people are righteous by what we believe, and are justified by what we do. verse 24

No, Rollo - aA righteous person IS a person who is justified - and vice versa.

We cannot be righteous OR justified in the eyes of God unless we have surrendered to Him.
It says that Abraham believed in God and it was credited to him as righteousness. "Believing" in Scriptural terms is NOT a simple intellectual assent.
In the NT - believing means:

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)[/QUOTE]

 

[Taken]

@Taken




I see some possible shades of difference from where I stand and what you are saying, but it may be more semantics than real differences. There is certainly a point a person can attain to where he is saved and will never go back, but he may not realize it when he has attained it. Of course, God knows if and where it is and He knows when a person has attained it. Unless God has given us a particular knowledge about another person we would not know for certain when that other person had attained it.

The part I underlined is remains a question in my own mind. Will a person definitely know immediately when he has attained to salvation and that he will definitely never go back?

I had a bit of this conversation with another poster.

HOW a person calls on the Lord to Confess, is paramount.
From his Hearts thoughts..He shall be changed and Kept Changed by the indwelling power of God.
From his Minds thoughts. Nothing within the mans has changed. Even if the man is water Baptized, congratulated, calls himself saved...
And tomorrow, or years later HIS mind CAN CHANGE and he claim himself a non-believer.

Sadly, there are Pastors coming out and claiming they do not believe...never did heartfully believe. Pretty shocking to a congregation who sat and listened to such a "Pastor"....

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

1. It’s you name calling and contempt
2. And, actually yes - it is you. Not for the reason you think however. I expect more from Catholics.

I have contempt for lies - and so should YOU.
I also expect more from Catholics - even pseudo-Catholics . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

In a poorly and Juvenal connived method, you take my claim, which is clearly revealed in Scripture......and then declare my claim makes John and the Holy Spirit liars.

One Scripture does not Negate and make another Scripture not true.

Correct. It's ONLY when people like YOU take them out of context that they become contradictory.

False accusation.

I did not call you or anyone a dunce. I said dunce. Seems you claimed that for yourself, Ok.

This is a big, fat LIE.

Here are YOUR words from post #1835:
"Future sins?
LOL - the spiritually bankrupt once again pretending he is the teacher! LOL
Dunce!!
THERE ARE NO FUTURE SINS for a man BORN OF GODS SEED!"

So - you sinned by calling me a "Dunce" - then you sinned when you LIED about calling me a "Dunce."
I thought you sand that you DON'T sin?? That's another lie . . .

I did not judge anyones' soul. You have said numerous times you are in the PROCESS of becoming saved, which is NOT being saved.

You said that I wasn't saved - then you called me an agent of Satan.
I'd say that is judging my soul - which Scripture condemns.

How about that?? ANOTHER sin . . .

 

[aspen]

I have contempt for lies - and so should YOU.
I also expect more from Catholics - even pseudo-Catholics . . .

Soldier on.....

The Evil Wood

It was still dark when I began to be aware of a far-off, confused, rushing noise, mingled with faint cries. It grew and grew until a tumult as of gathering multitudes filled the wood. On all sides at once the sounds drew nearer; the spot where I lay seemed the centre of a commotion that extended throughout the forest. I scarce moved hand or foot lest I should betray my presence to hostile things.

The moon at length approached the forest, and came slowly into it: with her first gleam the noises increased to a deafening uproar, and I began to see dim shapes about me. As she ascended and grew brighter, the noises became yet louder, and the shapes clearer. A furious battle was raging around me. Wild cries and roars of rage, shock of onset, struggle prolonged, all mingled with words articulate, surged in my ears. Curses and credos, snarls and sneers, laughter and mockery, sacred names and howls of hate, came huddling in chaotic interpenetration. Skeletons and phantoms fought in maddest confusion. Swords swept through the phantoms: they only shivered. Maces crashed on the skeletons, shattering them hideously: not one fell or ceased to fight, so long as a single joint held two bones together. Bones of men and horses lay scattered and heaped; grinding and crunching them under foot fought the skeletons. Everywhere charged the bone-gaunt white steeds; everywhere on foot or on wind-blown misty battle-horses, raged and ravened and raved the indestructible spectres; weapons and hoofs clashed and crushed; while skeleton jaws and phantom-throats swelled the deafening tumult with the war-cry of every opinion, bad or good, that had bred strife, injustice, cruelty in any world. The holiest words went with the most hating blow. Lie-distorted truths flew hurtling in the wind of javelins and bones. Every moment some one would turn against his comrades, and fight more wildly than before, THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! still his cry. One I noted who wheeled ever in a circle, and smote on all sides. Wearied out, a pair would sit for a minute side by side, then rise and renew the fierce combat. None stooped to comfort the fallen, or stepped wide to spare him.

The moon shone till the sun rose, and all the night long I had glimpses of a woman moving at her will above the strife-tormented multitude, now on this front now on that, one outstretched arm urging the fight, the other pressed against her side. “Ye are men: slay one another!” she shouted. I saw her dead eyes and her dark spot, and recalled what I had seen the night before.

Such was the battle of the dead, which I saw and heard as I lay under the tree.

 

[amadeus]

I had a bit of this conversation with another poster.

HOW a person calls on the Lord to Confess, is paramount.
From his Hearts thoughts..He shall be changed and Kept Changed by the indwelling power of God.
From his Minds thoughts. Nothing within the mans has changed. Even if the man is water Baptized, congratulated, calls himself saved...
And tomorrow, or years later HIS mind CAN CHANGE and he claim himself a non-believer.

Sadly, there are Pastors coming out and claiming they do not believe...never did heartfully believe. Pretty shocking to a congregation who sat and listened to such a "Pastor"....

God Bless,
Taken

I do hear what you are saying and do not completely agree nor disagree. Sometimes we cannot express exactly where we are because of what God is working on in us. If we are continuously returning to the lowest place, each week, each day, each hour, each moment, and letting Him do the lifting of us up, will we not end up where He wants us to be? One thing I do not do, even when it may seem to be worst days and/or my worst of times, is quit on Him... I keep on starting up one more time in that lowest room.

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

Sometimes or even always when I do that and God elevates me again there is something there that I did not have before.
Give God the glory!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No, Rollo.
Works don't just PROVE faith - they ARE faith.

Genuine Christian faith requires surrender and obedience - not just "believing" and "calling" on the Lord.
James is telling his readers that Belief + Works (obedience) = FAITH.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with spiritual warfare.
James is simply telling his readers that belief alone will get you nowhere. because faith is MUCH more than just believing.

No, Rollo - aA righteous person IS a person who is justified - and vice versa.

We cannot be righteous OR justified in the eyes of God unless we have surrendered to Him.
It says that Abraham believed in God and it was credited to him as righteousness. "Believing" in Scriptural terms is NOT a simple intellectual assent.
In the NT - believing means:

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

[/QUOTE]
Thank you Breadman for exposing to everyone once again that you fail to understand Scripture.

 

[Taken]

Good grief....Works are not Faith.
..................Works do not PROVE Faith.

Faith IS a GIFT from God.

Seriously? A man is going to PROVE his Faith...TO WHO...the one who gave it to him?

LOL

Works are about Service a Faithful saved and born again man CAN DO to glorify Gods name on earth.

Scripture itself reveals a mans "reasonable service" unto God.
Rom 12:1

And of course since God has PREPARED a faithful, saved and born again man TO spread His Word through good works, testifying of Him, glorifying His name on earth....

Gee...how astounding (not) we should find the disciples teaching men to "BE" a faithful SERVANT, and how!

It is simply being taught about the great gifts Gods has given them, and how they can use those Gifts to glorify His great name.

Hey and if you do, God shall bless you and reward you.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I do hear what you are saying and do not completely agree nor disagree. Sometimes we cannot express exactly where we are because of what God is working on in us. If we are continuously returning to the lowest place, each week, each day, each hour, each moment, and letting Him do the lifting of us up, will we not end up where He wants us to be? One thing I do not do, even when it may seem to be worst days and/or my worst of times, is quit on Him... I keep on starting up one more time in that lowest room.

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

Sometimes or even always when I do that and God elevates me again there is something there that I did not have before.
Give God the glory!

Awesome testimony!
Thank you for sharing,

Yes Priase be to God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@Taken


The part I underlined is remains a question in my own mind. Will a person definitely know immediately when he has attained to salvation and that he will definitely never go back?

Friend ~ it hinges on "IF"..

"IF" you heartfully Believe in the Lord, you are crucified, cleansed, sanctified, saved, quickened.

And is it forever, Yes. Not my YOUR strength or power.....we fail.....but rather by His strength and power to keep you forever faithful to Him.

Will you feel like you just had a blood bath, or something weird like your body was killed, or your heart circumcised? Hear trumpets blowing? Hear an shout of the Angels in heaven? No.

You KNOW it by Trusting Gods Word is Truth and He IS Faithful.

Now if you start having fellowship with your spirit to Gods Spriit...that is when things begin happening that you notice.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Correct. It's ONLY when people like YOU take them out of context that they become contradictory.

This is a big, fat LIE.

Here are YOUR words from post #1835:
"Future sins?
LOL - the spiritually bankrupt once again pretending he is the teacher! LOL
Dunce!!
THERE ARE NO FUTURE SINS for a man BORN OF GODS SEED!"

So - you sinned by calling me a "Dunce" - then you sinned when you LIED about calling me a "Dunce."
I thought you sand that you DON'T sin?? That's another lie . . .

You said that I wasn't saved - then you called me an agent of Satan.
I'd say that is judging my soul - which Scripture condemns.

How about that?? ANOTHER sin . . .

LOL
Common sense....
Spiritual understanding....
Fabricator.....check
False accuser.....check

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL
Common sense....
Spiritual understanding....
Fabricator.....check
False accuser.....check

Hey - as long as YOU claim that you don't sin - and you won't take Scripture's word for it - we have proof for you that you DO.
You sinned - then you sinned again by lying about NOT sinning - then you lied about that.

What utter hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you Breadman for exposing to everyone once again that you fail to understand Scripture.

And thank you for showing your utter ignorance of James 2:14-22 . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good grief....Works are not Faith.
..................Works do not PROVE Faith.

Faith IS a GIFT from God.
Seriously? A man is going to PROVE his Faith...TO WHO...the one who gave it to him?
LOL
Works are about Service a Faithful saved and born again man CAN DO to glorify Gods name on earth.
Scripture itself reveals a mans "reasonable service" unto God.
Rom 12:1
And of course since God has PREPARED a faithful, saved and born again man TO spread His Word through good works, testifying of Him, glorifying His name on earth....
Gee...how astounding (not) we should find the disciples teaching men to "BE" a faithful SERVANT, and how!
It is simply being taught about the great gifts Gods has given them, and how they can use those Gifts to glorify His great name.
Hey and if you do, God shall bless you and reward you.

WRONG again.
The grace to COME to faith is a gift from God - which requires our cooperation.

Belief + Obedience (works) = FAITH.

 

[epostle1]

Heb. 11:6 – faith is indeed the minimum requirement without which we cannot please God. But this is just the beginning of the process leading toward justification. Faith alone does not justify a person. Justification is only achieved by faith and works, as we see below. Also, this gratuitous gift of faith from God also includes the grace of hope and love the moment the person is justified.

Eph. 2:8-9 – Paul teaches us that faith is the root of justification, and that faith excludes “works of law.” But Paul does not teach that faith excludes other kinds of works, as we will see below. The verse also does not say we are justified by “faith alone.” It only indicates that faith comes first. This, of course, must be true, because those who do works outside of faith are in a system of debt, not of grace (more on that later). But faith alone does not justify. A man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. James 2:24.

Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30 – the faith we have must be a repentant faith, not just an intellectual faith that believes in God. Repentance is not just a thought process (faith), but an act (work) by which we ask God for His mercy and forgiveness.

Psalm 51:17 – this means we need a “broken and contrite heart,” not just an intellectual assent of faith. Faith in God is only the beginning.

John 3:36; Rom. 1:5, 6:17; 15:18; 16:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Peter 2:7-8; Heb. 5:9; cf. Rev. 3:10; Ex. 19:5 – this faith must also be an “obedient faith” and a “work of faith.” Obedience means persevering in good works to the end.
Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Protestants cannot show us from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith. Instead, here and elsewhere, the Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.

James 2:19 – even the demons believe that Jesus is Lord. But they tremble. Faith is not enough. Works are also required.

2 Cor. 10:15 – this faith must also increase as a result of our obedience, as Paul hopes for in this verse. Obedience is achieved not by faith alone, but by doing good works.

2 Cor. 13:5 – Paul also admonishes us to examine ourselves, to see whether we are holding to our faith. This examination of conscience is a pious Catholic practice. Our faith, which is a gift from God, must be nurtured. Faith is not a one-time event that God bestows upon us.

Gal. 5:6 – thus, the faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. This is one of the best summaries of Catholic teaching. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith.

James 1:22-25 – it’s the “doers” who are justified, not the hearers. Justification is based on what we do, which means “works.” Notice that there is nothing about “false faith.” The hearers may have faith, but they need to accompany their faith by works, or they will not be justified. See also Rom. 2:13.

James 2:17,26 – James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God.
Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Protestants cannot show us from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith. Instead, here and elsewhere, the Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.

James 2:19 – even the demons believe that Jesus is Lord. But they tremble. Faith is not enough. Works are also required.

James 2:20 – do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Good works in God’s grace are required for justification. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about “saving faith.”

James 2:22 – faith is active with works and is completed by works. It does not stand alone. Faith needs works to effect our justification.

James 4:17 – in fact, James writes that the failure to do works is a sin! So works are absolutely necessary for our justification.

James 2:15-17 – here are the examples of the “works” to which James is referring – corporal works of mercy (giving food and shelter to those in need).

James 1:27 – another example of “works” is visiting orphans and widows in their affliction. Otherwise, if they do not perform these good works, their religion is in vain.

James 2:25 – another example of “works” is when Rahab assisted the spies in their escape. Good works increase our justification and perfect our faith.

Joshua 2:9-11 – Rahab’s fellow citizens had faith in God, but in Joshua 6:22-25, Rahab alone acted and was saved. This is faith in action.

James 2:18 – to avoid the truth of the Catholic position that we are justified by both faith and works, Protestants argue the justification that James is referring to in James 2 is “before men” and not “before God.” Scripture disproves their claim.

James 2:14 – James asks, “Can faith save him?” Salvation comes from God. This proves the justification James is referring to is before God, not men.
JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic

 

[pia]

Sometimes or even always when I do that and God elevates me again there is something there that I did not have befor

Just precious ! Thank you John

 

[pia]

This is how salvation works as I see it. If proper care is taken the seal will never be broken before the end of "our course", but sometimes we choose to break the seal ourselves. It's mistake to do it, but it does happen.

I saw it much the same way until some time ago, after being once again confused by the teaching in a fellowship I had begun to attend.....Jesus answered my questionings by showing and saying the following......
There was a glass of water in front of me, and I was bid to put some cordial into the glass, which swirled around for a bit in the water and then it all seemed to be the same substance in the glass...Then He said to me :" Now go ahead and separate it again.".....I said :" I can't Lord."....He said :" Precisely."
I still do occasionally get into that same place of questioning, much to my detriment almost every time...but that time He took mercy on me and helped me to never forget this......
I am also aware that me passing this along, is not going to make it real for others, as He did for me at that time, but anyone can seek Him for answers to these things, asking in faith, nothing wavering.
Until we get these answers, we must somehow come to 100% trust Him, and us being who we are, that is not always easy, especially when we have so many very 'important' questions we want answers to lol.......He is just marvelous and ever so patient and kind......We ? Not so much !