Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[Spiritual Israelite]

None of your verses declare definitively that the righteous and the evil are resurrected at the same time.

Yes, they do. You are not being objective here. Let's look at a couple of the passages again.

Daniel 12:1“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This passage very clearly is talking about a certain time at which point "multitudes" will be resurrected with some of them being resurrected to "everlasting life" and others "to shame and everlasting contempt". How can you say that this does not show both the righteous and the evil being resurrected at generally the same time? It most certainly does. As does this passage:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus very clearly said a singular time is coming when all of the dead will be raised. He didn't say that two completely separate times or events are coming when the dead will be raised, as you believe. Premils simply do not accept what passages like these teach.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not true. "the rest of the dead lived not..." proves there are two separate resurrections. Amills will ignore this because they cannot dispute this fact.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Rev 20:5 )

No, Amills do not ignore this as you falsely claimed. The rest of the dead refer to unbelievers and they do not live and reign with Christ in heaven as the souls of the dead in Christ do. That is what is being pointed out there as well as the fact that they will not be considered alive again until they are resurrected after the thousand years (and Satan's little season) are finished.

What you ignore is the fact that believers, both alive and dead, reign with Christ right now. We do not need to be bodily resurrected in order to reign with Christ. Revelation 20:6 indicates that those who reign with Christ are priests of Christ and God the Father and we know from passages like Revelation 1:5-6 and 1 Peter 2:9 that believers RIGHT NOW are priests of Christ and God the Father.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The GWTJ is the last of the judgements w/ a few occuring on different peoples at different times for different reasons just as scripture teaches.

Where does scripture teach multiple future judgment days?

Do you see that taught here:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Scripture teaches that God has set a singular day to judge everyone, not multiple days. That day will be when Christ returns and is portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

Do you see multiple judgment days taught here:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus indicated that at the end of the age all people will be gathered and separated with the wicked being thrown "into the blazing furnace". And Matthew 13:43 indicates that the righteous will "shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" at that point. This shows all people being judged at the same time. How can you read passages like these and come up with multiple judgment days?

 

[Truth7t7]

It's a prophecy using weapons they were familiar with. How would a prophet describe anti-aircraft guns, rifles, AK-47's, AR-15's, handguns, etc.??

The prophet explained exactly the weapons used, Wooden Bows, Arrows, Shield, Spears

It's you that has a problem understanding it was a historical war fought long ago, when people of Israel were using "Wood" for fuel

You think Israelis are going to burn weapons for seven years in the future for household use?

Your eschatology is based in Aesops Fabels, trying desperately to create a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, that's non-existant in scripture

 

[ewq1938]

Your eschatology is based in Aesops Fabels, trying desperately to create a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, that's non-existant in scripture

The book of Revelation is scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

Really? So, when "the resurrection" is mentioned in scripture, how can we know which resurrection it is referencing? For example...

Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

If there are supposedly multiple resurrections in the future then which resurrection was Jesus talking about here?

So a physical birth should be considered a resurrection out of a mother's womb from a state of death?

We should just eliminate the usage of birth and call everything a resurrection?

Jesus called it a second birth for a reason. Why should we start calling it a resurrection?

 

[Davy]

I have over six full pages of ot propecies declaring otherwise.

Which is why you failed to produce them? Yeah, like you're believable.

 

[Trekson]

Really? So, when "the resurrection" is mentioned in scripture, how can we know which resurrection it is referencing? For example...

Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

If there are supposedly multiple resurrections in the future then which resurrection was Jesus talking about here?

Obviously the first one because he is describing life in heaven. Most of the second resurrection, but not all are heading the other way. There is only 2 resurrections as scripture plainly points out.

 

[Trekson]

So a physical birth should be considered a resurrection out of a mother's womb from a state of death?

We should just eliminate the usage of birth and call everything a resurrection?

Jesus called it a second birth for a reason. Why should we start calling it a resurrection?

There is no link between a second birth and the resurrection I don't know where you got that idea from.

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians
2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

This does not take away a future physical resurrection at the end of our world.

Was with you until your last sentence as there will be no physical resurrection

 

[Trekson]

Yes, they do. You are not being objective here. Let's look at a couple of the passages again.

Daniel 12:1“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This passage very clearly is talking about a certain time at which point "multitudes" will be resurrected with some of them being resurrected to "everlasting life" and others "to shame and everlasting contempt". How can you say that this does not show both the righteous and the evil being resurrected at generally the same time? It most certainly does. As does this passage:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus very clearly said a singular time is coming when all of the dead will be raised. He didn't say that two completely separate times or events are coming when the dead will be raised, as you believe. Premils simply do not accept what passages like these teach.

In both passages there is a first event followed by a second event, they could be a 1000 yrs. apart and the scriptures would still be literally true.

 

[Trekson]

Where does scripture teach multiple future judgment days?

Do you see that taught here:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Scripture teaches that God has set a singular day to judge everyone, not multiple days. That day will be when Christ returns and is portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

Do you see multiple judgment days taught here:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus indicated that at the end of the age all people will be gathered and separated with the wicked being thrown "into the blazing furnace". And Matthew 13:43 indicates that the righteous will "shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" at that point. This shows all people being judged at the same time. How can you read passages like these and come up with multiple judgment days?

Acts 17 and Matt. 13 are describing the GWTJ, post mill. Matt. 25 is describing an earthly judgment, post 70th week.

 

[Trekson]

The prophet explained exactly the weapons used, Wooden Bows, Arrows, Shield, Spears

It's you that has a problem understanding it was a historical war fought long ago, when people of Israel were using "Wood" for fuel

You think Israelis are going to burn weapons for seven years in the future for household use?

Your eschatology is based in Aesops Fabels, trying desperately to create a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, that's non-existant in scripture

Do you really think a historical battle from long ago would have produced enough wood to burn for "seven years" for "household" use?? They are all the size of kindling!! It is describing the destruction of weapons of war, not stove wood...lol.

 

[Trekson]

Which is why you failed to produce them? Yeah, like you're believable.

I offered some as examples, sorry you don't believe the word.

 

[Truth7t7]

Acts 17 and Matt. 13 are describing the GWTJ, post mill. Matt. 25 is describing an earthly judgment, post 70th week.

Matthew Chapter 25:31-46 is nothing more than a "Parable" of the GWTJ, as Matthew 25:46 shows the judgment to "Eternal Life" and "Eternal Punishment" (The End)

Your eschatology in beliefs are in the book of Aesops Fables, and that's a big understatemebt!

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Obviously the first one because he is describing life in heaven. Most of the second resurrection, but not all are heading the other way. There is only 2 resurrections as scripture plainly points out.

Why do you say it's obvious when you apparently believe that some believers will be resurrected at another time as well? Why would Jesus have not wanted to make it clear as to which resurrection He was talking about if there is going to be more than one future resurrection day?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In both passages there is a first event followed by a second event, they could be a 1000 yrs. apart and the scriptures would still be literally true.

But they are not 1000 years apart. Both passages indicate that the saved and lost will be resurrected at generally the same time. The Daniel 12 passage indicates that it will happen "at that time", not at those times. In John 5:28-29, Jesus said "a time is coming" when all the dead will be raised, not that multiple times are coming when the dead will be raised.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Acts 17 and Matt. 13 are describing the GWTJ, post mill. Matt. 25 is describing an earthly judgment, post 70th week.

Do you think that the following two verses are talking about two entirely different events?

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Do you think "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" is something different than the lake of fire?

 

[rwb]

Was with you until your last sentence as there will be no physical resurrection

If there is no physical resurrection when believers are bodily resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, in what way will we live with Christ on the new earth forever?

 

[Trekson]

Matthew Chapter 25:31-46 is nothing more than a "Parable" of the GWTJ, as Matthew 25:46 shows the judgment to "Eternal Life" and "Eternal Punishment" (The End)

Your eschatology in beliefs are in the book of Aesops Fables, and that's a big understatemebt!

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Agreed, heaven or hell for the living at the end of the 70th week. No mention of a resurrection at all, not a parable, sorry bro, it's a prophecy.