Pre-trib rapture!

[Wick Stick]

The Lord provided me with a Book... that contains a couple of Letters He had written to them.

I'm surprised you too have not found copies of these Letter the Lord had written to them View attachment 42154

The operative words here being "to them." They were meant to "comfort themselves" with "these words" in the dark days that were ahead for them.

Dark days. Not something to look forward to...

 

[rebuilder 454]

Which verses exactly are you bringing out? I spoke of all of them.
None of them point to a pre trib rapture.

Mathew 24 is reciting a story in a story. It gives an overall picture of the end of the last days. It is not entirely in temporal order.
Christ gives an overview, then Christ goes back into the original telling with greater details of various points in the story.

Paul also goes into greater detail about this, mostly in Thessalonians, but it is all the same story, which is about the return of Christ and the surrounding events.

When i debate a postribber , they very eagerly and willingly read the word "after" ,concerning after the tribulation ,when Angels ,not Jesus, and THEY gather the elect, from Heaven, not earth .( ahem, which means it is not the rapture)
Now they can see the word "after", but they fail to see that "angels gather", NOT JESUS, and they fail to see that the Gathering is in heaven ,not earth.
They completely failed to see that. The other thing that is a guaranteed fact with a postribber, is that when Jesus says he removed lot and Noah before judgment ,a postribber cannot process that ,and so I have no idea why that simple grammar eludes you guys .
I just have no idea.
You see the word "after" and it becomes your banner
It becomes the entire basis for your theology, ...the word "after".
But then when Jesus says "before" meaning "Before the Flood",
meaning before Sodom is destroyed (in Jesus example ofLot) ,
which also means pre-judgment, that God removes his people, as Jesus pointed out PREJUDGEMENT ,so I have no idea why I can point that out, I can post the scriptures, and a postribber cannot process those verses.
They just can't do it

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not at all. No eschatological position is well-enough explained in the Bible for anyone to really get dogmatic about it.

That said... pre-trib theology gets ruled-out pretty quickly by anyone who reads the Old Testament with comprehension.

Pretrib rapture is taught by Jesus.
So you claim to have o.t. verses that cancel Jesus doctrine???
I can quite handily defend the doctrine of a pretrib rapture as Jesus vividly depicted.
But you can not defend a postrib rapture with a bible.
I have spent hours listening to postrib rapture doctrine. NONE of it uses a bible honestly.
Those adherents MUST go extra biblical. This is fact.
For example, please provide a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.
I will wait.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Dark days. Not something to look forward to...

It's always darkest before the dawn

 

[Wick Stick]

Pretrib rapture is taught by Jesus.
So you claim to have o.t. verses that cancel Jesus doctrine???
I can quite handily defend the doctrine of a pretrib rapture as Jesus vividly depicted.
But you can not defend a postrib rapture with a bible.
I have spent hours listening to postrib rapture doctrine. NONE of it uses a bible honestly.
Those adherents MUST go extra biblical. This is fact.
For example, please provide a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.
I will wait.

Hmmm... do I really want to waste time arguing with pre-tribbers? No, I don't. I'm not going to put much effort into this.

A post-trib verse:

Jesus: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds."

The irony here is that I'm not a post-tribber, either.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds."

That's referring to His second coming... not the catching away of the church (rapture)

There's 2 different things going on here... the catching away of the faithful, and then the second return of the Lord after the great tribulation.

Pre-tibbers think the catching away of the faith happens before the great tribulation ever starts which is not scriptural.

It's going to instead be after the anti-christ is revealed to the world

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Wick Stick]

That's referring to His second coming... not the catching away of the church (rapture)

There's 2 different things going on here... the catching away of the faithful, and then the second return of the Lord after the great tribulation.

Pre-tibbers think the catching away of the faith happens before the great tribulation ever starts which is not scriptural.

It's going to instead be after the anti-christ is revealed to the world

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That would make it a third coming, rather than a second one.

I suppose the Bible does allow that The Day of the Lord may happen repeatedly, perhaps even cyclically. But the thing common to every Day of the Lord, is that they are ALL about judgment.

Amos 5:18-20 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That would make it a third coming, rather than a second one.

The catching away of the church is not a "coming" of the Lord as during this event His faithful meet Him in the
air and He does not touch down on earth like He did in His first coming and like He will in His Second Coming.

God has a long track record of rescuing His faithful and it will be no different in the last days where He removes His faithful remnant from harm's way. He has never before allowed His faithful, those walking in agreement with Him, those that are pleasing to Him... to be left in harms way and destroyed by enemies of the Lord.

There will be a catching away of His faithful at some point... but it will happen after the anti-christ has been revealed to the world. Since the first 2 to 3 years of the anti-christ's reign will be relativity peaceful (he comes to power based on promises of world peace), I'd think the catching way of the Lord's faithful would be pre-wrath meaning before satan's wrath is poured out on man and the Lord's wrath starts being poured out on the anti-christ in judgement.

It's going to be very hard for some believers to not be deceived by the anti-christ as some don't even believe there is evening going to be an actual anti-christ and they'll take the mark of the beast... while others believe in OSAS and they'll take the mark of the beast

 

[Wick Stick]

The catching away of the church is not a "coming" of the Lord as during this event His faithful meet Him in the
air and He does not touch down on earth like He did in His first coming and like He will in His Second Coming.

1Th 4:15,17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You want a mulligan on that one? Go ahead, delete/edit that post and I'll delete this one.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

1Th 4:15,17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You want a mulligan on that one? Go ahead, delete/edit that post and I'll delete this one.

Yes, just as 1Th 4:15,17 is telling us....He comes to meet us in the air... He does not come back to earth to land on the planet to start His 1000 year reight which is what He will do at His second coming after the great tribulation.

2 different things going on here homie half time...,

If you can't run with the big dawgz, you'd better stay up on the porch with the pups!

 

[rockytopva]

Pretrib Rapture- Beam me up Jesus!

And for a reminder that these words are supposed to be for our comfort!

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4

 

[Writer]

Thessalonians Fullfilled - EXACTLY, and only ONCE...at His second coming:

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Here we see the Jesus decending from Heaven, coming on the clouds, the great trumpet blast, and the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4-8 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life, (resurrected, not pre-tribulized from some…7 year honeymoon), and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection (Mat 24:29). 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.​

There is only the first resurrection (Mat24:29) and then…the second death. THERE IS NO PRE-ANYTHING!​

 

[Wick Stick]

Yes, just as 1Th 4:15,17 is telling us....He comes to meet us in the air... He does not come back to earth to land on the planet to start His 1000 year reight which is what He will do at His second coming after the great tribulation.

2 different things going on here homie half time...,

If you can't run with the big dawgz, you'd better stay up on the porch with the pups! View attachment 42575

So, you're telling me that this is not a COMING, when the verse you quoted literally uses the word COMING?

I guess it's just Exhibit 1,548,453,154 of pre-trib theological nonsense. A typical Thursday.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So, you're telling me that this is not a COMING, when the verse you quoted literally uses the word COMING?

I guess it's just Exhibit 1,548,453,154 of pre-trib theological nonsense. A typical Thursday.

Those that can read... clearly see the text saying He is coming to
meet us in the air and is not coming to touch down upon the earth.

I can help you find some online reading comprehension courses if you'd like... just let me know.

 

[Taken]

Pre-trib Rapture

@GISMYS_7 excellent topic.

The Term “RAPTURE” is expressly, exclusively, applicable TO:
Dead and buried Bodies…
Along with…
Alive Bodies ON the earth, WHO ARE “Sanctified”…
WHO…Having Already;
* Been bodily crucified with Christ…
* Soul Saved…
* Spirit Quickened…
* Is NOT subject to Gods Last Days Tribulations and Wrath of the Lord, Wrath of the Devil, Wrath of God (which occurs DURING Gods Last days Tribulations.)
* THEY are ALREADY accounted “DELIVERED”, and BEFORE Gods LAST DAY TRIBULATIONS…RISEN up WHOLE…
Body, soul, spirit, to MEET the Lord “IN THE Air, Clouds, Unseen to men ON the Earth.

There is no “Other” Rapture.
There IS “Resurrections” prepared FOR AFTER Gods Wrath with Vengeance is poured out upon the remaining UN-Believers.

There IS /SHALL BE, numerous people DURING the Last days Tribulations OF GOD, some escaping Death, Many Bodily Killed…for Becoming Believers, for Confessing their Beliefs, for acquiescing unto Bodily DEATH, FOR their testimony OF BELIEF.

THAT ORDER and WAY is JEWS (ie tribes of Israel) … solicited FIRST, Confess, FIRST, are bodily Killed FIRST (per collective masses), AND their saved souls Wait to RISE TOGETHER….with rest of the Jews (tribesmen) and Gentiles, who become Saved DURING Gods Tribulations sent to Earth.

Once masses of believers are BODILY Killed…Collectively their Saved Living Souls RISE UP to Heaven “TOGETHER”.

Un-believers, Un-saved, Un-quickened REMAIN ON the Earth, to Experience the WRATH of GOD, MIXED with His VENGEANCE as promised.

A FEW, who become Believers, and escape DEATH, remain Mortal, and become the Last of mortal mankind to repopulate the Earth during a 1,000 years time span.


Correct….ONCE an individual has BECOME…Forgiven, Bodily Crucified with Christ, Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened….He is DELIVERED FROM, ESCAPED, NOT SUBJECT TO…
THE WRATH to COME upon the Earth.

Glory, Glory, Glory unto our Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty.

Taken

 

[Wick Stick]

Those that can read... clearly see the text saying He is coming to
meet us in the air and is not coming to touch down upon the earth.

I can help you find some online reading comprehension courses if you'd like... just let me know.

I think you might need them more.

It doesn't say "He is coming to meet us in the air." It says "we who remain until THE COMING will not prevent those who are asleep."

THE COMING. But according to Big Boy Johnson, this doesn't count as a coming of the Lord. Make it make sense.

 

[Taken]

So, you're telling me that this is not a COMING, when the verse you quoted literally uses the word COMING?

I guess it's just Exhibit 1,548,453,154 of pre-trib theological nonsense. A typical Thursday.

If you are at work, and then coming home, and stop at the store, you are delayed a bit, (pick up a few items.)yet still coming home, and arrive when you get home.

The Lord descends from High Heaven (delays a bit) IN the Clouds (lower Heavens), (Picks up His Church congregation members) and Returns to Earth, (With His Holy Servants Angels, and With His Church members) and arrives ON Earth when He gets there, IN His Kingdom, His inherited Land, His inherited Throne.

 

[Taken]

I think you might need them more.

It doesn't say "He is coming to meet us in the air." It says "we who remain until THE COMING will not prevent those who are asleep."

THE COMING. But according to Big Boy Johnson, this doesn't count as a coming of the Lord. Make it make sense.

* Jesus
* The Lord
* The Christ…
* The Lamb…
* The Son of Man…
* The Son of God…

ALL “HAD” specific ROLLS and TASKS to fulfill From the First DAY He was SENT from Heaven to Earth., AS a Humble servant…

ALL “HAVE” specific ROLLS and TASKS to fulfill and specific things to “CLAIM”, when He Prepares and Returns to EARTH….WITH Power and Glory.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It doesn't say "He is coming to meet us in the air."

Verse 17 clearly tells us we will meet Jesus in the air... so He is coming from His Throne in Heaven... down to earth's atmosphere to meet His faithful IN THE AIR and these shall forever be with the Lord

This portion of scripture says nothing of Jesus actually returning
to the earth as we will see Him doing after the great tribulation.
You stand corrected

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Wick Stick]

Verse 17 clearly tells us we will meet Jesus in the air... so He is coming from His Throne in Heaven... down to earth's atmosphere to meet His faithful IN THE AIR and these shall forever be with the Lord

This portion of scripture says nothing of Jesus actually returning
to the earth as we will see Him doing after the great tribulation.
You stand corrected View attachment 42623

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Your own post disproves your point, but you just keep doubling and tripling down.