Pre-trib rapture!

[Big Boy Johnson]

Plus the antichrist kills every man ,woman and child early on in the trib

Where does God's Word say... the anti-christ kills ever person on earth?

 

[rebuilder 454]

When you say "portrayed" you're referring to taking the words of Jesus and placing them in your colage of out of context scriptures and framing them into a doctrine called "THE RAPTURE", a word that does not exist in the bible, let alone giving it a frame of reference, and then you want to slap your colage back in the bible and say "LOOK HERE SEE...SEE, IT'S ALL HERE". In fact, all you have is conjecture as your blessed hope.

My blessed Hope is not on an event, My Hope is in the person of Jesus, the Christ whom I trust implicitly. If the blood of animals was enough for God to display His wrath upon egypt without that wrath being impuned on Israel, and If God could stand in the fire and take the heat for Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, than when God tells me to persevere and endure to the end, HE DOESN'T MEAN THE END AS BEING A NO BRAINER ESCAPE HATCH WITH A GUARANTEED HONEYMOON. He means through the darkest hours, even unto death, until His SECOND COMING. Daniel said, "even if we lose our lives, we will worship the lord"...THAT END...SEE!

GOD DOES NOTHING IN SECRET AND HIDES FROM NOTHING​

Yes. Endure to the end means that.
But to transpose that falsely to the gret trib is saying all those that died having a blessed life in america with very little trials are basically not saved.
Tribulation and such is relative. Your trials are minor compared to those in Siberia or some horrible place.
But the rapture os pretrib prejudgement as Jesus portrayed vividly. He used examples that are irrefutable. Lot endured nothing because he was removed. Jesus said his co.ing would be the same.
If you want to say Jesus was wrong then do so. My job is to report what is written.
I know that troubles you

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where does God's Word say... the anti-christ kills ever person on earth? View attachment 42855

All who refuse tbe mark. I meant to say ,"Every man woman and child takes the mark".

 

[rebuilder 454]

When you say "portrayed" you're referring to taking the words of Jesus and placing them in your colage of out of context scriptures and framing them into a doctrine called "THE RAPTURE", a word that does not exist in the bible, let alone giving it a frame of reference, and then you want to slap your colage back in the bible and say "LOOK HERE SEE...SEE, IT'S ALL HERE". In fact, all you have is conjecture as your blessed hope.

My blessed Hope is not on an event, My Hope is in the person of Jesus, the Christ whom I trust implicitly. If the blood of animals was enough for God to display His wrath upon egypt without that wrath being impuned on Israel, and If God could stand in the fire and take the heat for Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, than when God tells me to persevere and endure to the end, HE DOESN'T MEAN THE END AS BEING A NO BRAINER ESCAPE HATCH WITH A GUARANTEED HONEYMOON. He means through the darkest hours, even unto death, until His SECOND COMING. Daniel said, "even if we lose our lives, we will worship the lord"...THAT END...SEE!

GOD DOES NOTHING IN SECRET AND HIDES FROM NOTHING​

Out of context?????
Look in the mirror.
Jesus said before the judgement he removed Lot.
There is no where for you to go with that.
That alone bamboozles your position.
All rapture verses are peace time normal life and free Commerce. Your position does not allow for that. In your position you have a destroyed Earth with Believers running from cave to Cave to escape the Antichrist and no free Commerce.
so basically there's no buying selling there's no marrying, given in marriage, but rather it's a war zone, and we can easily see in Ukraine and other war zone areas, that they don't conduct normal life.
So you need that context changed. Another Arena where you change the context ,is in the book of Acts, the angels said Jesus shall return and like manner. So in "like manner", they are saying, is the description of exactly how he will return.
So lets do context.
There are no white horses in his Ascension.
he is by himself in his Ascension and he is not leaving as a conquering King he's leaving as the bridegroom that was just betrothed at the Last Supper to his bride. Furthermore every eye does not see him at the ascention. And most every single thing about it is exactly opposite of your position. So you need that context completely reversed to make your position valid.
Another thing you take out of context is the Virgin parable. We see peace time we see buying and selling and we see normal life in the parable of the 10 versions which is vividly depicted as the rapture. So in your Doctrine, you need Jesus on white horses coming after his bride and he's in a mode of of warrior and he's coming to do battle with his enemy and wipe them out. What is the context of the second coming? white horses WITH the Saints AND no rapture, and he's coming as a conquering King and he's coming to do battle.
It gets worse.
The groom, Jesus takes only half the christians back to his fathers house.
Ahem, according to your doctrine the bride goes back to earth, ( the postribber nonexistant uturn) which would need the parable to say that they went back to the virgins house.
Postribber doctrine needs the entire 10 virgin parable retold and reframed.
So in order to promote your Doctrine you must change NOT ONLY CONTEXT, but the entire story of the 10 virgin parable.
That is why we own eschatology.
We have verses in context.

 

[Writer]

Yes. Endure to the end means that.
But to transpose that falsely to the gret trib is saying all those that died having a blessed life in america with very little trials are basically not saved.
Tribulation and such is relative. Your trials are minor compared to those in Siberia or some horrible place.
But the rapture os pretrib prejudgement as Jesus portrayed vividly. He used examples that are irrefutable. Lot endured nothing because he was removed. Jesus said his co.ing would be the same.
If you want to say Jesus was wrong then do so. My job is to report what is written.
I know that troubles you

There is nothing to suggest that Lot being removed from the city is irrifutable scripture pointing to a pre-trib rapture, NOTHING. Reaching for a pre-trib rapture with Lot is suggesting that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra was to teach all of us about the blessed hope rapture and not about Gods judgment on the unrighteous,

Out of context?????
Look in the mirror.
Jesus said before the judgement he removed Lot.
There is no where for you to go with that.
That alone bamboozles your position.
All rapture verses are peace time normal life and free Commerce. Your position does not allow for that. In your position you have a destroyed Earth with Believers running from cave to Cave to escape the Antichrist and no free Commerce.
so basically there's no buying selling there's no marrying, given in marriage, but rather it's a war zone, and we can easily see in Ukraine and other war zone areas, that they don't conduct normal life.
So you need that context changed. Another Arena where you change the context ,is in the book of Acts, the angels said Jesus shall return and like manner. So in "like manner", they are saying, is the description of exactly how he will return.
So lets do context.
There are no white horses in his Ascension.
he is by himself in his Ascension and he is not leaving as a conquering King he's leaving as the bridegroom that was just betrothed at the Last Supper to his bride. Furthermore every eye does not see him at the ascention. And most every single thing about it is exactly opposite of your position. So you need that context completely reversed to make your position valid.
Another thing you take out of context is the Virgin parable. We see peace time we see buying and selling and we see normal life in the parable of the 10 versions which is vividly depicted as the rapture. So in your Doctrine, you need Jesus on white horses coming after his bride and he's in a mode of of warrior and he's coming to do battle with his enemy and wipe them out. What is the context of the second coming? white horses WITH the Saints AND no rapture, and he's coming as a conquering King and he's coming to do battle.
It gets worse.
The groom, Jesus takes only half the christians back to his fathers house.
Ahem, according to your doctrine the bride goes back to earth, ( the postribber nonexistant uturn) which would need the parable to say that they went back to the virgins house.
Postribber doctrine needs the entire 10 virgin parable retold and reframed.
So in order to promote your Doctrine you must change NOT ONLY CONTEXT, but the entire story of the 10 virgin parable.
That is why we own eschatology.
We have verses in context.

The parable of the 10 virgins depict 5 foolish virgins who only had enough light (because they owned eschatology) in their lanterns to last them (according to their eschatological thinking) only until their secret, mysterious, Pre-Trib rapture. But something happend that they did not expect. THE BRIDEGROOM DELAYED and the owner of the eschatological house went back to his eschatological bed because he didn't have enough light to wait to meet the THEIF/BRIDEGROOM. Jesus is speaking here. There is going to be a delay. Does it state that in your eschatology ownership documents that Jesus WILL DELAY...hummmm? and then SURPRISE, no more pre-trib rapture. Only the virgins with enough oil to persurvere TO THE END...His second coming, does He call them unto Himself, NOT BEFORE!

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is nothing to suggest that Lot being removed from the city is irrifutable scripture pointing to a pre-trib rapture, NOTHING. Reaching for a pre-trib rapture with Lot is suggesting that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra was to teach all of us about the blessed hope rapture and not about Gods judgment on the unrighteous,

The parable of the 10 virgins depict 5 foolish virgins who only had enough light (because they owned eschatology) in their lanterns to last them (according to their eschatological thinking) only until their secret, mysterious, Pre-Trib rapture. But something happend that they did not expect. THE BRIDEGROOM DELAYED and the owner of the eschatological house went back to his eschatological bed because he didn't have enough light to wait to meet the THEIF/BRIDEGROOM. Jesus is speaking here. There is going to be a delay. Does it state that in your eschatology ownership documents that Jesus WILL DELAY...hummmm? and then SURPRISE, no more pre-trib rapture. Only the virgins with enough oil to persurvere TO THE END...His second coming, does He call them unto Himself, NOT BEFORE!

...but Jesus SAID his coming is depicted in Lot and Noah.
Jesus said "before the flood" which is BEFORE judgement.
There is no way around what Jesus said.
You need the context modified big time.
Lot is used BY JESUS...NOT ME as a description of TIMING.
Your timing is different.
That is amazing that you need the bible changed to fit your doctrine.
Your doctrine rests solely on one dynamic. That there can only be one coming. Jesus destroyed that COMPLETELY in mat 24.
But it gets worse. We see a coming in rev 14:14 DURING THE TRIB that is neither the rapture , or the second coming on horses.
Ooooops.
There is 2 witnesses i just placed on the table that your "one coming" doctrine can not possibly answer.
So with lot you left out timing ( prejudgement REMOVAL)
With Noah you left out "before the flood" ( Jesus depicting Noah as a prejudgement dynamic)

With the the virgin parable, you left out every point, then centered on "delay". Yes we are now in the delay. No brainer.
But what you will be disappointed to learn is tgat all the virgins went out before the delay....AHEM, they believed he could come any moment.
Thank you for that nugget
I had never realized that pretrib dynamic as no postribber is waiting for Jesus to come any moment as the 10 virgins did.!
Wow!!!! You just pointed to yet another pretrib rapture factoid!!!!!
You guys believe the ac comes and no need to watch for Jesus as you guys believe it would be impossible.
Now you have proven my point in that we have verses you MUST OMIT or reframe to promote a false doctrine.
But the worst part is ya'll change the context and reframe verses with no red flags!!!!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is nothing to suggest that Lot being removed from the city is irrifutable scripture pointing to a pre-trib rapture, NOTHING. Reaching for a pre-trib rapture with Lot is suggesting that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra was to teach all of us about the blessed hope rapture and not about Gods judgment on the unrighteous,

The parable of the 10 virgins depict 5 foolish virgins who only had enough light (because they owned eschatology) in their lanterns to last them (according to their eschatological thinking) only until their secret, mysterious, Pre-Trib rapture. But something happend that they did not expect. THE BRIDEGROOM DELAYED and the owner of the eschatological house went back to his eschatological bed because he didn't have enough light to wait to meet the THEIF/BRIDEGROOM. Jesus is speaking here. There is going to be a delay. Does it state that in your eschatology ownership documents that Jesus WILL DELAY...hummmm? and then SURPRISE, no more pre-trib rapture. Only the virgins with enough oil to persurvere TO THE END...His second coming, does He call them unto Himself, NOT BEFORE!

read it better.
The groom fetch his bride and went into the marriage chamber and the door was shut.
AHEM, That context is totally reverse of what you need it to read.
If Jesus was depicting a gathering at the second coming there would be no wedding chamber, and the bride would mount riderless horses in the sky ( yes that is your strange doctrines dilemma) to COME TO EARTH, NOT TO THE FATHERS HOUSE AS THE parable depicts.

 

[Writer]

read it better.
The groom fetch his bride and went into the marriage chamber and the door was shut.
AHEM, That context is totally reverse of what you need it to read.
If Jesus was depicting a gathering at the second coming there would be no wedding chamber, and the bride would mount riderless horses in the sky ( yes that is your strange doctrines dilemma) to COME TO EARTH, NOT TO THE FATHERS HOUSE AS THE parable depicts.

The door was shut to the rest of the world. When He returns, no one but His elect ( the 5 prudent virgins 5 out of 10 or 50% will be called up to Himself and will remain with Him, that door or opportunity will be SHUT. All the others will remain rejects.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The door was shut to the rest of the world. When He returns, no one but His elect ( the 5 prudent virgins 5 out of 10 or 50% will be called up to Himself and will remain with Him, that door or opportunity will be SHUT. All the others will remain rejects.

Jesus depicted the TIMING with Noah and Lot. Prejudgement removal is a difficult concept for you guys. It is so so so damaging.
Rev 14;14 has another gathering mid trib.
So Jesus depicted 3 gatherings.
Postribber doctrine depicts one, and they are unaware what they depict is a gathering FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS.
so that gathering is neither the rapture of 1 thes 4 ,nor is it the gathering in rev14.
That is a really bad fail for the postrib rapture doctrine.
Note that you left out the wise virgins are taken to the marriage chamber in heaven and the door is shut.
Man do postribs ever change Gods word!

 

[Writer]

Jesus depicted the TIMING with Noah and Lot. Prejudgement removal is a difficult concept for you guys. It is so so so damaging.
Rev 14;14 has another gathering mid trib.
So Jesus depicted 3 gatherings.
Postribber doctrine depicts one, and they are unaware what they depict is a gathering FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS.
so that gathering is neither the rapture of 1 thes 4 ,nor is it the gathering in rev14.
That is a really bad fail for the postrib rapture doctrine.
Note that you left out the wise virgins are taken to the marriage chamber in heaven and the door is shut.
Man do postribs ever change Gods word!

Jesus did not depict a "SECRET COMING", The Ten virgins was a metaphore. Everything in the metaphore was a metaphore including the door and the chamber. The Ten virgins are not really Ten, and the Ten Virgins are not really all women. They represent the Body of Christ made up of men and women until our bodies are changed in a twinkling of an eye, which does not occure as a pre trib event. It occurs at His Second Coming, in the Clouds, with a Trumpet blast, and we are "RAISED" (the dead first, RESURRECTED).

Quit using metaphores to make your case about chambers when all that was a METAPHORE.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus did not depict a "SECRET COMING", The Ten virgins was a metaphore. Everything in the metaphore was a metaphore including the door and the chamber. The Ten virgins are not really Ten, and the Ten Virgins are not really all women. They represent the Body of Christ made up of men and women until our bodies are changed in a twinkling of an eye, which does not occure as a pre trib event. It occurs at His Second Coming, in the Clouds, with a Trumpet blast, and we are "RAISED" (the dead first, RESURRECTED).

Quit using metaphores to make your case about chambers when all that was a METAPHORE.

We don't need to change the components of any parable.
Here are a few facts of the virgin parable;
Virgins...check
Told his coming is imminent..check
All had oil....check
Some took extra...check
All 10 had lamps, oil, light, and were pure and undefiled...check
The 5 wise were worthy the others foolish...check.
The groom was delayed....check.
The groom is on a mission check. The mission of the groom is to gather the bride and no other Mission or purpose is depicted... check.
The depiction that you need is one of a warrior king on a white horse with millions of horses accompanying him blackening the sky which we see in Revelation 19.... check.
We see that the groom in fact does take half of the Christians to heaven... check.
we see that the other Christians are left behind (the foolish ones that are not ready for this eminent return)... check.
The parable in a nutshell is the groom Gathering the bride and going straight into the marriage chamber.
And what is left out of the parable is everything you need to make it work for your Doctrine, but every single bit of that false depiction is left out, you have to read it into the parable.
That is why you could sit under hundreds of hours of post-tribber vids on YouTube and you will never see a single one of them bring up Matthew 25.!!!
You'll never see a single one of them bring up Revelation 14:14 either.!!!
You will never see a single one of them with any verse concerning a post tribulation rapture. But you will see them hurl all kinds of generalities at pre-tribbrers.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The door was shut to the rest of the world. When He returns, no one but His elect ( the 5 prudent virgins 5 out of 10 or 50% will be called up to Himself and will remain with Him, that door or opportunity will be SHUT. All the others will remain rejects.

Well you are kinda right.
But the parable has the groom on a specific mission.
Only the bride is targeted and gathered.
The world is nowhere in the picture

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus did not depict a "SECRET COMING", The Ten virgins was a metaphore. Everything in the metaphore was a metaphore including the door and the chamber. The Ten virgins are not really Ten, and the Ten Virgins are not really all women. They represent the Body of Christ made up of men and women until our bodies are changed in a twinkling of an eye, which does not occure as a pre trib event. It occurs at His Second Coming, in the Clouds, with a Trumpet blast, and we are "RAISED" (the dead first, RESURRECTED).

Quit using metaphores to make your case about chambers when all that was a METAPHORE.

2 more things
1) the only people i have ever see use the word "secret" is postribber adherents.
I have never used it or need it to defend the pretrib rapture doctrine.
My doctrine is a compiling of no brainer verses. Very simple.
2) if all parables are abstract useless stories then Jesus failed in the message He was teaching through parables.
All parables have components.
All parable are a story within a story.
All parables are spiritual and spiritually discerned.
When a doctrine needs the components changed...?????
Huh?????

 

[Writer]

2 more things
1) the only people i have ever see use the word "secret" is postribber adherents.
I have never used it or need it to defend the pretrib rapture doctrine.
My doctrine is a compiling of no brainer verses. Very simple.
2) if all parables are abstract useless stories then Jesus failed in the message He was teaching through parables.
All parables have components.
All parable are a story within a story.
All parables are spiritual and spiritually discerned.
When a doctrine needs the components changed...?????
Huh?????

I never said that Parables are abstrat and useless. They are created so we can, by spiritual wisdom, understand the spiritual "REALITY" using material perspectives. That makes the parables extremely important. We must have our spiritual eyes to see and our spiritual ears to hear the spirit of Christ, "the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ".

When Jesus gave all the parables a place in His written word, the bible makes it clear to call them "Parables" and not stories. Parables are meant to represent a bridge taking us from material to spiritusl. If you take a parable at face value, you have missed what the "SPIRIT" is saying.

The angel tells John, do not be perplexed, I will explain the the 7 mountains, and then he goes on to explain that they are 7 kings. There are many such examples through out the scriptures, and even Jesus had to explain the "Spiritual" meaning of born again to Nicodemus. He thought Jesus was suggesting we all go back in the bellies of our mothers, just as you thought we were actually going in some chamber and hear a door close, when Jesus actually says "where I am there you shall be also", and the door represents the opportunity that occurs once and then shuts forevermore, and then the second death.

You twist the truth to comply with your colage and then read it back through criticism of others and leave no explanation of your own.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never said that Parables are abstrat and useless. They are created so we can, by spiritual wisdom, understand the spiritual "REALITY" using material perspectives. That makes the parables extremely important. We must have our spiritual eyes to see and our spiritual ears to hear the spirit of Christ, "the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ".

When Jesus gave all the parables a place in His written word, the bible makes it clear to call them "Parables" and not stories. Parables are meant to represent a bridge taking us from material to spiritusl. If you take a parable at face value, you have missed what the "SPIRIT" is saying.

The angel tells John, do not be perplexed, I will explain the the 7 mountains, and then he goes on to explain that they are 7 kings. There are many such examples through out the scriptures, and even Jesus had to explain the "Spiritual" meaning of born again to Nicodemus. He thought Jesus was suggesting we all go back in the bellies of our mothers, just as you thought we were actually going in some chamber and hear a door close, when Jesus actually says "where I am there you shall be also", and the door represents the opportunity that occurs once and then shuts forevermore, and then the second death.

You twist the truth to comply with your colage and then read it back through criticism of others and leave no explanation of your ....

 

[rebuilder 454]

QUOTE by Writer,
"""just as you thought we were actually going in some chamber and hear a door close, when Jesus actually says "where I am there you shall be also", and the door represents the opportunity that occurs once and then shuts forevermore, and then the second death"""
LOL
Oh wow, now that is funny.
We have a parable of the groom fetching the bride.
Vividly portrayed.
Then you come along and "correct" me for the "absurd observation" that the groom takes the bride into the marriage chamber.
Oh yeah, whooda thought a groom would do such a thing.
I got a good laugh at your "superior" interpretation.
SMH
Then some "definition" of a parable.
Trying to "prove" a parable can not be a "story within a story"
You are making a fool of yourself.
Ya know, you really need to drop the strain and stretching.
The virgin parable is a literal no brainer, as you tried to compare the obvious of nicodemus and his mental interpretation of "born again", with the virgin parable, and amazingly miss the obvious, that the parable is the groom fetching the bride.
Really????
You really struggle with that??????
Time to step out of the strain and get into Gods word friend.
It is so simple we tend to miss the message.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus did not depict a "SECRET COMING", The Ten virgins was a metaphore. Everything in the metaphore was a metaphore including the door and the chamber. The Ten virgins are not really Ten, and the Ten Virgins are not really all women. They represent the Body of Christ made up of men and women until our bodies are changed in a twinkling of an eye, which does not occure as a pre trib event. It occurs at His Second Coming, in the Clouds, with a Trumpet blast, and we are "RAISED" (the dead first, RESURRECTED).

Quit using metaphores to make your case about chambers when all that was a METAPHORE.

Yes he comes in the clouds 3 times according to the bible.
A fact that you can not understand, even when you are shown.
I suppose just cut rev 14:14 out if your bible.
Psst...the second coming after the trib is millions of white horses lead by Jesus ON A WHITE HORSE, as a warrior and conquerer.
Are you aware of that?????
Your doctrine changes so many many many things.
Why do you think there are no rapture threads????
Because i blow that postrib rapture error completely out of the water.
I grab my bible and it is like shooting ducks in a barrel.
Ask yourself, why do my teachers never mention the setting of the second coming on horses. Why do they not accurately paint that picture?????
You yourself are not aware of the horses in the second coming. Millions of them blackening the sky.
And you missed it.
But rev 14:14 is the nuke that can change your mind....but it wont because you invested too heavily in that man made mental error doctrine of omissions.

 

[Writer]

Rapture is a word. The "DEAD' shall "rise" first and experience it's meaning, NOT A LIVING CHURCH FIRST and NO WHERE in the scriptures does it say, or state that. When the dead rise, it's called "RESURRECTION", and we who REMAIN, will be called up with them and changed in a twinkling of an eye, but not before the GREAT TRIBULATION. Your Latern is a liter short of oil bacause you don't think He'll delay past the Great Tribulation, and when He does, and He will, you will be like Mary who lost faith in Jesus when He delayed for Lazurus, and when the bridegroom does appears your going to be plum out of luck!.

You've made your choice...I made mine. Leave at that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rapture is a word. The "DEAD' shall "rise" first and experience it's meaning, NOT A LIVING CHURCH FIRST and NO WHERE in the scriptures does it say, or state that. When the dead rise, it's called "RESURRECTION", and we who REMAIN, will be called up with them and changed in a twinkling of an eye, but not before the GREAT TRIBULATION. Your Latern is a liter short of oil bacause you don't think He'll delay past the Great Tribulation, and when He does, and He will, you will be like Mary who lost faith in Jesus when He delayed for Lazurus, and when the bridegroom does appears your going to be plum out of luck!.

You've made your choice...I made mine. Leave at that.

Nope
If you are wrong, you are as you say, "outta luck".
I already showed you that your setting is impossible.
Jesus framed 2 comings in mat 24.
Then yet another in Rev 14:14.
But it is ludicrous to think, if the entire church goes through the Wrath of God, as you insist, inspite of the Bible, that only those persisting in that false hope of wrath, running from cave to cave, are the "lucky ones" and us weak pretribbers are all trash while running behind you powerful ones from cave to cave.
It is always that weird dynamic of "missing out and getting all depressed",as you postribbers think you made a point, when in fact it is you guys that have the built in opportunity to not be ready and not keep vigilant.
Even the foolish virgins saw the need to keep watch.
Buy you miss that parable entirely .
Because even the foolish believed in imminent return.
Postribbers were the smart ones that did not believe the angels. They stayed home while the wise foolishly went out to meet Him and were ready and expecting the groom at any time.
...and you can not defend the opposition to the pretrib verses.
That is why you do not honestly challenge any of the pretrib rapture verses.
You can not debate with verses. So you divert everything to concepts like "outta luck"

 

[Writer]

Nope
If you are wrong, you are as you say, "outta luck".
I already showed you that your setting is impossible.
Jesus framed 2 comings in mat 24.
Then yet another in Rev 14:14.
But it is ludicrous to think, if the entire church goes through the Wrath of God, as you insist, inspite of the Bible, that only those persisting in that false hope of wrath, running from cave to cave, are the "lucky ones" and us weak pretribbers are all trash while running behind you powerful ones from cave to cave.
It is always that weird dynamic of "missing out and getting all depressed",as you postribbers think you made a point, when in fact it is you guys that have the built in opportunity to not be ready and not keep vigilant.
Even the foolish virgins saw the need to keep watch.
Buy you miss that parable entirely .
Because even the foolish believed in imminent return.
Postribbers were the smart ones that did not believe the angels. They stayed home while the wise foolishly went out to meet Him and were ready and expecting the groom at any time.
...and you can not defend the opposition to the pretrib verses.
That is why you do not honestly challenge any of the pretrib rapture verses.
You can not debate with verses. So you divert everything to concepts like "outta luck"

Look, I do not believe that a Pre-Trib Rapture is going to occure, Jesus wisely warned us not to stumble over Him and I am not going stumble
over His cross to embrace a blessed hope Mary doctrine, or a blessed hope Saturday doctrine or a blessed hope pre-trib doctrine. My blessed hope is Jesus and Him crucified. If Jesus comes this very hour, HE WILL TAKE ME WITH HIM because my heart is filled to the brim with the expectaion to perservere TO THE END. However, Jesus, in His own words said this: "You will not "see" me again until the son of perdition is revealed". "See" does not mean a secret invisible coming that excludes everyone except baptists who own escotology.

The difference between you and me, is that no matter when Jesus decides to show up, I win on both counts. Good luck fella!

"Many will fall from the faith in that day"