PreTrib Question

[Monk]

What Scripture do those that believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture use to claim that they will not go through the 70th week of Daniel?I hope I asked this right.

 

[Faithful]

I have to say I have often thought that too. There is none to say this.Faithful.:angel7:

 

[Monk]

(Faithful;31848)
I have to say I have often thought that too. There is none to say this.Faithful.:angel7:
Have you study this issue/topic before and what caused you to believe what you believe?

 

[followerofchrist]

www.raptureready.com scroll down to defending the pre-trip rapture section and get your fill of reading. I believe you will find all you want on pre-trip rapture beliefs

 

[Monk]

(followerofchrist;31864)
scroll down to defending the pre-trip rapture section and get your fill of reading. I believe you will find all you want on pre-trip rapture beliefs
Thanks for the link, but that is what I was trying to avoid, because they make it so complicated that you know less at the end than what you knew at the beginning. Most of those web-pages are like the politicians they speak a lot and actually say nothing that you can understandI want to know what made some of you believe what you believe. What do you believe and why?What is the verse that triggered your believe?

 

[followerofchrist]

That site is what caused me to believe. They made so many good points and backed it up as well. And don't worry about not understanding it, I didn't know a thing when I went their!And I want to note that I don't really know if I believe in the pre-tib rapture anymore but this is what got me to believe in the first place

 

[followerofchrist]

The rapture is an event that will take place sometime in the near future. Jesus will come in the air, catch up the Church from the earth, and then return to heaven with the Church. The Apostle Paul gave a clear description of the rapture event in his letters to the Thessalonians and Corinthians. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thess, 4:16-18). ?Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality? (1 Cor. 15:51-53). The timing of the rapture is not known. From the Word of God and from sound reasoning--something Jesus used quite frequently--I hope to prove the reality of the pretribulation rapture. The word ?rapture? comes from Paul's "caught up" remark in verse 17. The words ?caught up? are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to carry off," "snatch up," or "grasp hastily." The translation from harpazo to ?rapture? involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word ?rapture.?

 

[Christina]

There is no scripture that teaches Pre- Trib rapture I have studied this in depth for yearsthere is only men who twist scripture to try to see what is not said. Their main scripture they use is 1 Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.If you take this verse at face value which is not nessairily the only way to understandit Then the question is whenAnd we are told exactly when in 2 Thess. it is After the Antichrist (the son of perdition)1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Verse four is the Abomination of Desolation of Daniel which we are told is the mid- week of the Tribulation. So 2 Thess not only tells us that the gathering together is not before the tribulation but verse 4 is speaking of the middle of the tribultion Christ will not return until the the 7th trump it is the only time we are ever told Christ will return after the Tribulation

 

[Christina]

(followerofchrist;31869)
The rapture is an event that will take place sometime in the near future. Jesus will come in the air, catch up the Church from the earth, and then return to heaven with the Church. The Apostle Paul gave a clear description of the rapture event in his letters to the Thessalonians and Corinthians. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thess, 4:16-18). ?Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality? (1 Cor. 15:51-53). The timing of the rapture is not known. From the Word of God and from sound reasoning--something Jesus used quite frequently--I hope to prove the reality of the pretribulation rapture. The word ?rapture? comes from Paul's "caught up" remark in verse 17. The words ?caught up? are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to carry off," "snatch up," or "grasp hastily." The translation from harpazo to ?rapture? involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word ?rapture.?
I know you are just learning these things follower and not yet convinced of no rapture. I noticed you quoted 1Cor 15 which is right that is when we are told when Christ comes and we are changed but I want you to see the contradiction in your post, to learn, Study this closley and ask youself When does this say it will happen?? Now look at the trumps what number is the Last one?? the Great tribulation happens in the 5th/6th trump how can the last trump 7th happen before the 5th/6th trump when the trumps are in order.Can 7 come before 5 or 6?????

 

[followerofchrist]

Kriss, I see what your saying and I have been on the fence for a while but I am pretty much convinced that the rapture is just a theory of man and not the truth.

 

[Monk]

(kriss;31870)
There is no scripture that teaches Pre- Trib rapture I have studied this in depth for yearsthere is only men who twist scripture to try to see what is not said. Their main scripture they use is 1 Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.If you take this verse at face value which is not nessairily the only way to understandit Then the question is whenAnd we are told exactly when in 2 Thess. it is After the Antichrist (the son of perdition)1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Verse four is the Abomination of Desolation of Daniel which we are told is the mid- week of the Tribulation. So 2 Thess not only tells us that the gathering together is not before the tribulation but verse 4 is speaking of the middle of the tribultion Christ will not return until the the 7th trump it is the only time we are ever told Christ will return after the Tribulation
I appreciate your help, and I tend to lean towards the Pre-Wrath view, but I just want to make sure that there is not an issue with the church and Israel, as some claim. I don't see any Scripture that affirms or backs up that view that the church and Israel will be treated different, but I don't know all of the scriptures and I was wondering if someone else knew something I don't know.Can someone negate the Pre-wrath view? Using scriptures.

 

[followerofchrist]

By pre-wrath do you mean pre-trib? Because the tribulation is not Gods wrath, its his final attempt to get humankinds attention.

 

[Christina]

PRAISE BE TO THE FATHER that he has given you truth followerofchrist

 

[followerofchrist]

Kriss, I want to thankyou for pointing 1 Corinthians 15:52 to me. 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)What I just now noticed when I went back to that site that convinced me of the pre-tribulation rapture in the first place is this:"Because Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:52 and 1 Thes 4:16, said believers would be raptured at the sounding of a trump..." notice they just said trump, not the last trump.But later on they point this out:"Pre-wrath proponents say that the Seventh Trumpet blown in Rev 11:15-18 is the same last trump Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 15:52. However, they fail to take into account the fact that John wrote Revelation 40 years after Paul wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?"I was wandering what you make of this?

 

[Jordan]

HalleuYah!JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Christina]

(Monk;32103)
I appreciate your help, and I tend to lean towards the Pre-Wrath view, but I just want to make sure that there is not an issue with the church and Israel, as some claim. I don't see any Scripture that affirms or backs up that view that the church and Israel will be treated different, but I don't know all of the scriptures and I was wondering if someone else knew something I don't know.Can someone negate the Pre-wrath view? Using scriptures.
I'm with follower here not quite sure what you mean by pre-wrath but Im going to assume you mean no rapture but that we will go the through the wrath first. So here my explanation to that. First lets understand there are two tribulations or at least two parts The first 5th/6th trump is Satan coming to earth as the Antichrist (that is claiming to be christ) This is Satan's tribulation, this is to separate the wheat from the chaff or the true believer from the false believer God will protect his true believers just as he did Daniel in the furnace. The Jews called Judah in prophecy will most likely at first fall for Satan as being their promised messiah but in the middle of this tribulation Antichrist will stand in the Holy of Hollies and declare he is God (this is known as the Abomination of Desolation spoken in Daniel) When he does this Many Jews will realize this is an abomination and that they were wrong.This is when the second or last part of the tribulation occurs and the true Christ returns this is Christ's tribulation and is not directed toward the believer but Satan and his followers this is when we are changed into spirit bodies to gather to the Lord. This is also when God joins Jews and Christians together under Christ.We are told this in Eze. Now to understand this prophecy we need to understand Gods symbols two sticks (branches are Jew and Christian)current day Jews in Israel is called Judah the ten lost tribes are the called Ephraim(Ephraim are the tribes that left Israel went to Scotland and Britain and eventfully America and the Christan nations)All the house of Israel is all 12 tribes (Jew and Christian) joined togetherHere God says he will join both sticks together Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

 

[Monk]

(followerofchrist;32108)
By pre-wrath do you mean pre-trib? Because the tribulation is not Gods wrath, its his final attempt to get humankinds attention.
No, I don't know how you see things, but it's my understanding that we will be spared from God's wrath, for we are not appointed to wrath, but to salvation.That is the reason I said Pre wrath snatching. :angel10:As I understand, well be taken just before the wrath of God is poured on the unbelieving world.Do you see it differently?

 

[followerofchrist]

Yes, I am pretty sure that 1 Thess. 5:9 but I don't have my bible so you might have to check that. But your correct, we are not to suffer Gods wrath, only salvation.

 

[Monk]

(kriss;32126)
First lets understand there are two tribulations or at least two parts The first 5th/6th trump is Satan coming to earth as the Antichrist (that is claiming to be christ) This is Satan's tribulation, this is to separate the wheat from the chaff or the true believer from the false believer God will protect his true believers just as he did Daniel in the furnace.
As far as I see things from the scriptures there seems to be 7 seals and those that believe that Christ is the Mesiah will be snatched up to heaven to meet Christ in the air somewhere between the 6th seal and the 7th seal, just before the wrath of God is poured on the rest of the earth. Just like it was with Sodom and just like it was with Noah.Am I getting this wrong?

 

[Jordan]

(Monk;32131)
(Kriss;32126)
First lets understand there are two tribulations or at least two parts The first 5th/6th trump is Satan coming to earth as the Antichrist (that is claiming to be christ) This is Satan's tribulation, this is to separate the wheat from the chaff or the true believer from the false believer God will protect his true believers just as he did Daniel in the furnace.
As far as I see things from the scriptures there seems to be 7 seals and those that believe that Christ is the Mesiah will be snatched up to heaven to meet Christ in the air somewhere between the 6th seal and the 7th seal, just before the wrath of God is poured on the rest of the earth. Just like it was with Sodom and just like it was with Noah.Am I getting this wrong?100% Yes. There is no scripture saying that Christ will come back before Satan comes back.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.