Prince Harry & Meghan Markle, An Adulterous Marriage?

[Triumph1300]

Your stating that they are not saved and going to hell, so what makes the difference?

I said IF they are not Christians.

 

[Triumph1300]

You mean repent, get divorced, leave the adulterous relationship, and become a born again christian?

No I didn't say that.

 

[Jay Ross]

What is being stated here is a black and white understanding of the "LAW."

In some third world countries, men are allowed to have more than one wife.

Now if the first wife of a man in one of those countries is not able to provide offspring for her husband, then that man loses face within his community. The first wife finds a near relative, a 1st or 2nd cousin from memory, who is willing to become the second wife of the first wife's husband, in the hope that she will be able to provide offspring for the husband. The first wife encourages her husband to marry her cousin, as his second wife so that she can provide him with legitimate offspring. Within a year the husband has offspring through his second wife.

The dilemma comes about, for the pastor of the church, that the husband and the two wives get saved and they all accept the saving grace of Jesus and His death on the cross as their means of receiving God's salvation for them, and they then join the church through which they received their salvation. What should the pastor of the church do? Is the man leading an adulterous life because he has two wives? Has the second wife entered into a adulterous relationship with her already married husband?

Should the pastor of this third world church ask the husband to chose one of his two wives to remain his wife and divorce the other wife and throw her out of the Family house where she is still being feed and provided with shelter while she remains his wife? Remember that in that third world country, a divorced woman is shunned by her family and the community because she has now brought shame to her family and her community and that she will starve and have nowhere to live.

How would you advise the pastor in this sort of situation?

A pastor I have lived with in a third world country on and off, over nearly 20 years, did ask me that very question because of what he read in the Bible. Which Law should he consider as having the greater influence in reaching a decision as to what he should do about the, now , Christian man, in his congregation.

Sometimes the law is an as s and we need God's wisdom in discerning who we should respond to the situation that we find ourselves in.

What pastor, within a first world country, would ask a divorced remarried rich man to leave his congregation because of generous giving in the collection pot each Sunday during the service?

King David took another mans wife and bedded her, then when she became pregnant, tried to cover up his indiscretion with Bathsheba by bring her husband back from the battle field to sleep with her, but when he would not sleep with her, David sent him back to the battle and orchestrated his death on the battle field.

David's actions had consequences and repercussions for his family, but God spoke to David about his stealing of a lamb which belonged to an old man, i.e. God, while he had turned away from God for a time. The nation of Israel had also turned away from God because of their love for King David.

We need to be very careful in judging others and playing at being God in the process, particularly when we have no clout to back up our judgements against the said sinners.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

What is being stated here is a black and white understanding of the "LAW."

In some third world countries, men are allowed to have more than one wife.

Now if the first wife of a man in one of those countries is not able to provide offspring for her husband, then that man loses face within his community. The first wife finds a near relative, a 1st or 2nd cousin from memory, who is willing to become the second wife of the first wife's husband, in the hope that she will be able to provide offspring for the husband. The first wife encourages her husband to marry her cousin, as his second wife so that she can provide him with legitimate offspring. Within a year the husband has offspring through his second wife.

The dilemma comes about, for the pastor of the church, that the husband and the two wives get saved and they all accept the saving grace of Jesus and His death on the cross as their means of receiving God's salvation for them, and they then join the church through which they received their salvation. What should the pastor of the church do? Is the man leading an adulterous life because he has two wives? Has the second wife entered into a adulterous relationship with her already married husband?

Should the pastor of this third world church ask the husband to chose one of his two wives to remain his wife and divorce the other wife and throw her out of the Family house where she is still being feed and provided with shelter while she remains his wife? Remember that in that third world country, a divorced woman is shunned by her family and the community because she has now brought shame to her family and her community and that she will starve and have nowhere to live.

How would you advise the pastor in this sort of situation?

A pastor I have lived with in a third world country on and off, over nearly 20 years, did ask me that very question because of what he read in the Bible. Which Law should he consider as having the greater influence in reaching a decision as to what he should do about the, now , Christian man, in his congregation.

Sometimes the law is an as s and we need God's wisdom in discerning who we should respond to the situation that we find ourselves in.

What pastor, within a first world country, would ask a divorced remarried rich man to leave his congregation because of generous giving in the collection pot each Sunday during the service?

King David took another mans wife and bedded her, then when she became pregnant, tried to cover up his indiscretion with Bathsheba by bring her husband back from the battle field to sleep with her, but when he would not sleep with her, David sent him back to the battle and orchestrated his death on the battle field.

David's actions had consequences and repercussions for his family, but God spoke to David about his stealing of a lamb which belonged to an old man, i.e. God, while he had turned away from God for a time. The nation of Israel had also turned away from God because of their love for King David.

We need to be very careful in judging others and playing at being God in the process, particularly when we have no clout to back up our judgements against the said sinners.

Shalom

Sometimes we do think we can declare it all "black & white", don't we?

 

[Truth7t7]

I said IF they are not Christians.

If they are not saved, then the statement below applies, right?

they are not saved and going to hell, so what makes the difference?

 

[Truth7t7]

What is being stated here is a black and white understanding of the "LAW."

In some third world countries, men are allowed to have more than one wife.

Now if the first wife of a man in one of those countries is not able to provide offspring for her husband, then that man loses face within his community. The first wife finds a near relative, a 1st or 2nd cousin from memory, who is willing to become the second wife of the first wife's husband, in the hope that she will be able to provide offspring for the husband. The first wife encourages her husband to marry her cousin, as his second wife so that she can provide him with legitimate offspring. Within a year the husband has offspring through his second wife.

The dilemma comes about, for the pastor of the church, that the husband and the two wives get saved and they all accept the saving grace of Jesus and His death on the cross as their means of receiving God's salvation for them, and they then join the church through which they received their salvation. What should the pastor of the church do? Is the man leading an adulterous life because he has two wives? Has the second wife entered into a adulterous relationship with her already married husband?

Should the pastor of this third world church ask the husband to chose one of his two wives to remain his wife and divorce the other wife and throw her out of the Family house where she is still being feed and provided with shelter while she remains his wife? Remember that in that third world country, a divorced woman is shunned by her family and the community because she has now brought shame to her family and her community and that she will starve and have nowhere to live.

How would you advise the pastor in this sort of situation?

A pastor I have lived with in a third world country on and off, over nearly 20 years, did ask me that very question because of what he read in the Bible. Which Law should he consider as having the greater influence in reaching a decision as to what he should do about the, now , Christian man, in his congregation.

Sometimes the law is an as s and we need God's wisdom in discerning who we should respond to the situation that we find ourselves in.

What pastor, within a first world country, would ask a divorced remarried rich man to leave his congregation because of generous giving in the collection pot each Sunday during the service?

King David took another mans wife and bedded her, then when she became pregnant, tried to cover up his indiscretion with Bathsheba by bring her husband back from the battle field to sleep with her, but when he would not sleep with her, David sent him back to the battle and orchestrated his death on the battle field.

David's actions had consequences and repercussions for his family, but God spoke to David about his stealing of a lamb which belonged to an old man, i.e. God, while he had turned away from God for a time. The nation of Israel had also turned away from God because of their love for King David.

We need to be very careful in judging others and playing at being God in the process, particularly when we have no clout to back up our judgements against the said sinners.

Shalom

Jay you can't distract from the truth in the OP, Harry bought into an adulterous relationship, Meghans Husband (Trevor Engelson) lives.

Well Jay It's very much cut and dry, as you go into long elaboration on some "Pagan Custom" of having multiple wives.

Matthew 19:4-6 below couldn't read any more clear, basic and simple.

One Man And One Woman, Twain/Two become one flesh, clear, simple And Easy To Read.

Matthew 19:4-6KJV
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Harry can't be married to Meghan, because her last name is (Engleson) and that won't and can't change until her husband (Trevors) death.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The British Throne in 1931 was abdicated because Edward was in a adulterous relationship with Wallis Simpson.

Edward VIII
In 1931, then known as the Prince of Wales, Edward met and fell in love with American socialite Wallis Simpson. After George V's death, the prince became King Edward VIII. However, because his marriage to Simpson, an American divorcée, was forbidden,Edward abdicated the throne after ruling for less than a year.

 

[Willie T]

Wasn't the "LAW" of Moses stated very clearly to Jesus in the story of the woman caught in adultery? How did He respond to those words? Were not many things that Jesus did in clear violation of the "LAW"?

 

[Truth7t7]

Wasn't the "LAW" of Moses stated very clearly to Jesus in the story of the woman caught in adultery? How did He respond to those words? Were not many things that Jesus did in clear violation of the "LAW"?

In Love

Jesus Christ re-wrote the "Imperfect Law Of Moses" and the Jewish tradition's.

Matthew 5:21-48 attest to this fact, read it.

The woman caught in adultery was instructed to go her way and sin no more John 8:11, I'm sure she divorced herself from the adulterous relationships.

Willie a man or woman can't be married to another while their "Lawful" spouse lives, Jesus Christ upheld this, and spoke directly of this, it ain't gonna change in Matthew 19:3-6, Luke 16:18, Romans 7:1-3 below.

I'm fully aware that a blind eye is turned upon adultery in the last 30-40 years in what is called the church?

It has been foretold as a prophetic sign of the last days, "The Great Apostasy-Falling Away", as anything goes in this proclaimed church, adultery, homosexuality, fornication, abortion, etc.

(Meghan Engelson) biblically can't marry Harry, while her husband (Trevor) lives, simple.

Sorta like the story of the rich man, that came to Jesus and asked to follow, Jesus said sell all you have and give it away, the rich man declined salvation for his worldly wealth Matthew 19:21-22

Many are doing the same living in the sin of adultery, they can't let the precious object go, fleshly "Lust" in many cases, as the preachers promise them eternal life, when they themselves serve corruption 2 Peter 2:19

Matthew 19:3-6KJV
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Luke 16:18KJV
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

 

[Jay Ross]

<snip>
Well Jay It's very much cut and dry, as you go into long elaboration on some "Pagan Custom" of having multiple wives.

<snip>

It seems that you ignored the Ethics and Morality question that I was asking. It has been ignored by you. I was not writing about a pagan practice of having many wives, I was asking about what the Christian response should be if this man and his two wives come to Christ, which incidentally, they did. That aspect of my post you ignored and blew off as being very unimportant.

Yes the royal wedding is topical at the moment, but did you write the same rhetoric about the future king of England well over 13 years ago before he got married, when he divorced his first wife to marry the woman of his first love. Did you have an issue with the future king back then because he was in an adulterous relationship even before his first wife died.

In my response to my pastor friend, I provided advised him to not enforce the law on the new Christians as it was not "Christian" for the man to eject one of his wives onto the scrap heap of total rejection, so that the pastor could feel better about himself.

Are you not also doing the same thing here?

 

[Marymog]

Getting baptized does not make you a Christian.
Getting married in a Christian church does not make you a Christian.
A performance by a Christian pastor does not make you a Christian.

The only thing that would make those two Christians is if they were "Born Again".

Trolling....again? ;)

 

[Triumph1300]

If they are not saved, then the statement below applies, right?

Take it anyway you like.
I don't care.

 

[Truth7t7]

Trolling....again? ;)

I don't see trolling at all, just a true statement.

 

[Truth7t7]

Take it anyway you like.
I don't care.

In Love

Ok I believe if your unsaved and die in that condition there is only one outcome, that's my take on it.

 

[Truth7t7]

In my response to my pastor friend, I provided advised him to not enforce the law on the new Christians as it was not "Christian" for the man to eject one of his wives onto the scrap heap of total rejection, so that the pastor could feel better about himself.

God clearly defines marriage as between a Man and woman as seen below.

It's not a matter of what you think about anyone, you don't set the standards, God does.

The US also has laws against polygamy, so It's a clear no two wife scenario in the US.

Matthew 19:4-6 below couldn't read any more clear, basic and simple.

One Man And One Woman, Twain/Two become one flesh, clear, simple And Easy To Read.

God's word does not state and "Three Become One Flesh", biblically your recommendation to the pastor was not sound in the light of presented scripture.

Matthew 19:4-6KJV
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

[Phoneman777]

Doesn't Paul say that if a non-believer walks out on their spouse, the believer is not bound? But that may not apply in this case if the girl was not a Christian.

 

[Josho]

Oh dear..... This topic, as point was raised before, if she was in an abusive relationship before, or if she was being cheated on, or if her husband was doing silly things with other women, she had every right to get a divorce and if she did it for wrong reasons, maybe the Priest that baptised her before the wedding led her to say a prayer of repentance, anyway...

Maybe someone else might know about how The High Church of England goes on about it, I think they are big on repentance. The traditional ones say a prayer for God's forgiveness in most services I believe.

I have been to the low Anglican Church services before, we went to a traditional one on Easter and that was pretty structural, ritualistic with the Nicene creed, Lord's Prayer, a Prayer for forgiveness and all that and I have also been to untraditional Anglican too, where the lady vicar is full of the Holy Spirit and she's so lively and joyful hahaha, she's about as untraditional it gets for an Anglican Church hahhaha.

 

[Truth7t7]

Doesn't Paul say that if a non-believer walks out on their spouse, the believer is not bound? But that may not apply in this case if the girl was not a Christian.

If the unbelieving depart, they are "Separated".

It does not instruct remarriage while the spouse is living.

To be married to another while the spouse lives is adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:10-16KJV
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

 

[Jay Ross]

God clearly defines marriage as between a Man and woman as seen below.

It's not a matter of what you think about anyone, you don't set the standards, God does.

The US also has laws against polygamy, so It's a clear no two wife scenario in the US.

Matthew 19:4-6 below couldn't read any more clear, basic and simple.

One Man And One Woman, Twain/Two become one flesh, clear, simple And Easy To Read.

God's word does not state and "Three Become One Flesh", biblically your recommendation to the pastor was not sound in the light of presented scripture.

Matthew 19:4-6KJV
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

American inflicted pain is no justification in the scenario that I previously presented. Sadly American thinking has done more damage than I would care to imagine because of the rigidity of your pronouncements, just like yours above. The American way is culturally not God's way and it would seem that that is where your ethical standards comes from and not the Bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh dear..... This topic, as point was raised before, if she was in an abusive relationship before, or if she was being cheated on, or if her husband was doing silly things with other women, she had every right to get a divorce and if she did it for wrong reasons, maybe the Priest that baptised her before the wedding led her to say a prayer of repentance, anyway...

Maybe someone else might know about how The High Church of England goes on about it, I think they are big on repentance. The traditional ones say a prayer for God's forgiveness in most services I believe.

I have been to the low Anglican Church services before, we went to a traditional one on Easter and that was pretty structural, ritualistic with the Nicene creed, Lord's Prayer, a Prayer for forgiveness and all that and I have also been to untraditional Anglican too, where the lady vicar is full of the Holy Spirit and she's so lively and joyful hahaha, she's about as untraditional it gets for an Anglican Church hahhaha.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

American inflicted pain is no justification in the scenario that I previously presented. Sadly American thinking has done more damage than I would care to imagine because of the rigidity of your pronouncements, just like yours above. The American way is culturally not God's way and it would seem that that is where your ethical standards comes from and not the Bible.

I removed US law, now you have God's word's below, now what ya gonna do for the GUY that wants a Harem of women, and professes to be in the kingdom of Jesus Christ?

God clearly defines marriage as between a Man and woman as seen below.

It's not a matter of what you think about anyone, you don't set the standards, God does.

Matthew 19:4-6 below couldn't read any more clear, basic and simple.

One Man And One Woman, Twain/Two become one flesh, clear, simple And Easy To Read.

God's word does not state and "Three Become One Flesh", biblically your recommendation to the pastor was not sound in the light of presented scripture.

Matthew 19:4-6KJV
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.